Comparision

[younis ahmed khan]

I would like to know if any body could shed light on this matter that if a person wants to live outside Pakistan and earn legally, what should his approach be should he join FSP if he/she can clear the exam or should he/she apply for immigration into a foreign country ?

[thealiarain]

it depends on you either you are willing to earn legal dollars while serving country or want to earn more, as want to be billionaire by getting immigration . its totally on you.

[Escobar]

Helo Dear Aspirants !!

well applying for immigration and working abroad or joining the Foreign Service of Pakistan and then working abroad on Missions is clearly your own choice. I have yet to go on a posting but I have worked abroad for a year and quit that job because of my allocation in FSP.
Immigration means that you have chosen to go abroad for the sole reason of earning good money through working or doing business, enjoy a better standard of life with or without any plans of ever returning back to your home country. In FSP or any other Foreign Service of the world you serve for sometime in a country abroad and then come back to the HQ.
If you compare the earnings abroad , In FSP you earn enough money to live with a decent standard of life. If you compare it to what I was doing , working on contractual basis abroad , without permanent residence, FSP beats it by a far greater margin.
But if you purely talk about getting permanent residence, citizenship in another country then you cannot compare it with FSP, since you want to move out of your country and do away with your roots. No need to worry about FSP then.

[ahmed8ty9]

Originally Posted by Escobar

Helo Dear Aspirants !!

well applying for immigration and working abroad or joining the Foreign Service of Pakistan and then working abroad on Missions is clearly your own choice. I have yet to go on a posting but I have worked abroad for a year and quit that job because of my allocation in FSP.
Immigration means that you have chosen to go abroad for the sole reason of earning good money through working or doing business, enjoy a better standard of life with or without any plans of ever returning back to your home country. In FSP or any other Foreign Service of the world you serve for sometime in a country abroad and then come back to the HQ.
If you compare the earnings abroad , In FSP you earn enough money to live with a decent standard of life. If you compare it to what I was doing , working on contractual basis abroad , without permanent residence, FSP beats it by a far greater margin.
But if you purely talk about getting permanent residence, citizenship in another country then you cannot compare it with FSP, since you want to move out of your country and do away with your roots. No need to worry about FSP then.

amazing brother. so in your view, FSP officers have good standard of life.
can you honestly comment about:

1. What is the status of FSP officers (single, newly inducted) residence in Islamabad when posted for training and for duties at Foreign Office?

2. Why are the FSP officers of grade 18 and even 19 given the run around by local officers from PAS/DMG/PSP, etc. for their legal works and treated like faltu maal/useless people?

3. Is it not true that FSP officers value in Pakistan is only inside the Foreign Office building, outside that one area they arent even listened to by counterparts of other departments?

The only way out is when you get "connected" and establish your business abroad which means "respect" going to the pockets of your seniors isnt it?

Be honest please.

As for immigration, honestly, I think the poster wanted to know should he go for FSP or immigration. When all and all is compared, you said it well yourself. Immigration "cannot be compared" to life in FSP. Doesnt get truer than that! Lets not forget the scandals of fake passports, stolen id/missing papers, unprocessed documents, corruption in federal boards exams, and lack of any realistic consular services at all stations from New York to Harare. Does it feel proud to serve a mission where your over seas Pakistanis are not given respect and treated worse than animals, versus should you immigrate and live like a professional abroad? Thats a very hard choice.

[kinza kazmi]

Originally Posted by ahmed8ty9

amazing brother. so in your view, FSP officers have good standard of life.
can you honestly comment about:

1. What is the status of FSP officers (single, newly inducted) residence in Islamabad when posted for training and for duties at Foreign Office?

2. Why are the FSP officers of grade 18 and even 19 given the run around by local officers from PAS/DMG/PSP, etc. for their legal works and treated like faltu maal/useless people?

3. Is it not true that FSP officers value in Pakistan is only inside the Foreign Office building, outside that one area they arent even listened to by counterparts of other departments?

The only way out is when you get "connected" and establish your business abroad which means "respect" going to the pockets of your seniors isnt it?

Be honest please.

As for immigration, honestly, I think the poster wanted to know should he go for FSP or immigration. When all and all is compared, you said it well yourself. Immigration "cannot be compared" to life in FSP. Doesnt get truer than that! Lets not forget the scandals of fake passports, stolen id/missing papers, unprocessed documents, corruption in federal boards exams, and lack of any realistic consular services at all stations from New York to Harare. Does it feel proud to serve a mission where your over seas Pakistanis are not given respect and treated worse than animals, versus should you immigrate and live like a professional abroad? Thats a very hard choice.

A sister can comment, if it deems appropriate.
Yes, FSPs not only have good but superb and flourishing standards. An elite class standard with legal earning.
1. Foreign office lodges.
2. Quite irrelevant information you have told by someone. As any CSP belonging to any group shows mutual respect to all other groups, for they can only deliver in unity.FSP is one of the few caders
which are free from any political interference and are representative of the state. All groups for their mutalism depand upon each other in a positive interactive way, for they are all literate one.

3. Immigration is pole apart conept from FSP.

[ahmed8ty9]

Respected madam,

thank you for your reply and valued thoughts.

You mentioned FSP have elite and flourishing standards. Sure you may live in elite standard abroad but not in Pakistan.

With respect I tend to disagree from what I have seen. I have seen examples of FSP officers being treated poorly of the lot hence my question. Not told irrelevant info, thank you very much as you wrongly assumed, rather seen it during my time at CCPO office LHR.

FSP is free from any political interference. Please madam don't embarrass me with such a sweeping statement. As a CSS qualifier your analytical ability and grammar, both should have been better. Playing the female card was very smart move on your part, but my queries stand:

1. Are you getting FSP lodges in grade 17? I know you are entitled to it, but are you actually getting it? This forum is full of complaints from your own seniors regarding this.

2. Regarding your treatment by other departments, my experience is enough proof that I need. Sure all departments need to work together, but then again when does PSP/PAS need your help if they are living in Pakistan? Please guide me better on this matter.

3. You skipped my 3rd question. Do you feel "afsar" outside Foreign Office or not? Be honest please. Isn't the romanticism associated with FSP a long gone emotion evoked from the memories and writings of earlier FSP writers who published travel diaries only?

Don't get me wrong. Sure FSP beats a lot of options, like contractual work, etc. and you get immense respect abroad. But that's my whole point, how are you treated in Pakistan? Be honest please.

[Escobar]

Dear @Ahmed8ty9 I will answer all of your questions. This pessimism about FSP is not new; neither will it end with my responses. I will tell you what I know for now and these are all my own opinions and observations. So I expect you to respect them since this is not an argument.

Honestly speaking, immigrating to another country appeals to a lot of people. I will not deny the fact that the standard of life in developed countries is far ahead of what we have here at any level or social class. But then there is also a reality linked with it. Where ever you go, you will always be known by your roots. If you immigrate today, only your next generation might actually assimilate in that new society. For anyone who has spent around 20-30 yrs of his/her life in a country, it is not easy to immigrate and settle down in a new place. Then again, there are realities like racism, Islamophobia and all sorts of stigmas attached to you, which do not let you live your life freely and without worries as you do in your own country. You can ask any of your friends settled abroad about such issues. I have friends who have planned to settle, work, earn, save and come back to Pakistan to re-settle in the next 10 yrs. I had a better plan to serve Pakistan through FSP and in the process earn good Legit salary, develop and improve myself as a person and in knowledge, visit places, travel the world, learn a lot ,and meet all the famous people and political figures.

Now about your questions and FSP:

First things first, let me clarify that every Federal Government Service has its own pros and cons. You cannot and should not compare apples and oranges or expect a fish to climb a tree. The point is if you want to have recognition plus authority in Pakistan you should consider PAS/PSP. I never aimed for that, it doesn’t appeal to me. So I am happy with having no authority beyond my jurisdiction, on Police Affairs or District Management.

The run around given by Police or PAS officers is uncommon. Fellow commoners respect each other and the Comradeship stays strong throughout the careers. There might be some incidents, but it is as simple as asking your friend for a favor. Obviously you should not expect anything illegal to be done for you even by your friends. I don’t know where you are getting your information from, but what I can read between the lines is that you are pretty angry at FSP for whatever reason.

For status of an FSP I think you can read other discussions on the forum about residence, perks etc. etc. Other than that the status in Pakistan is that of a Federal government employee with connections every where. That is enough to get your work done.

Yes in FO the trend is not to provide cars to officers till grade 19 or 20 I guess except for some positions where you can get a car due to nature of the job .Otherwise pool vehicles are available for all official work.
In Foreign Service you can get accommodation in Lodges or FO hostels as soon as you join the Foreign Service Academy. PSP and PAS does not have any such perk in the Capital.

And about the establishing business part, again you are apprehensive but it doesn’t happen like that. You aren’t allowed by the foreign countries where you are posted as an official to do any other business than the Official one. I am not answerable for actions of officers in their own personal capacity. Bottom line It is illegal if it is not allowed in a Foreign Country and also illegal if not intimated to own Ministry.

If you want to feel like an Afsar wait for the posting, in Pakistan, you are an Afsar as a Federal Govt Employee and your Afsari does not mean that you start interfering or asserting your authority on other departments. And it stands true for all other services as well.

In the end you should know and understand that the times have changed. You don’t have to wait for the travel logs or memoirs of popular FSP officers after they retire. You can see them; follow them on social media websites. It is all there. The age old insult hurled at FSP “jungle mein morr naacha kis ne dekha” no longer stands true. Now everyone gets to see the “morr” dancing. Especially your own family and friends.

Rest is up to you. If you want a Diplomat to have authority over Police or PAS, that’s not his domain or concern. The Police is there to protect the Diplomats and PAS to assist them. Don’t you see the Diplomatic Enclave here in Islamabad? Or the Diplomats moving around in the Capital? Maybe you are focusing too much on the Protocol vehicles deputed for the Diplomats security. We get the same treatment abroad where it applies as per the rules and security conditions of the country.

I will just give you a small example that I have been in the FO for 3 months only and I have done training at a prime Foreign Institute relating to my service and have been to ICC, ICJ, PCA, NATO HQs, EU Commission, EU Parliament. These are the places you keep on reading about in books only if you are not a Diplomat. Our department, field, concerns, work is very different from rest of the services. Hence is the attitude.

I hope this has eased your angst about FSP to some extent and is helpful to other aspirants going for FSP.

[ahmed8ty9]

Originally Posted by Escobar

Dear @Ahmed8ty9 I will answer all of your questions. This pessimism about FSP is not new; neither will it end with my responses. I will tell you what I know for now and these are all my own opinions and observations. So I expect you to respect them since this is not an argument.

Honestly speaking, immigrating to another country appeals to a lot of people. I will not deny the fact that the standard of life in developed countries is far ahead of what we have here at any level or social class. But then there is also a reality linked with it. Where ever you go, you will always be known by your roots. If you immigrate today, only your next generation might actually assimilate in that new society. For anyone who has spent around 20-30 yrs of his/her life in a country, it is not easy to immigrate and settle down in a new place. Then again, there are realities like racism, Islamophobia and all sorts of stigmas attached to you, which do not let you live your life freely and without worries as you do in your own country. You can ask any of your friends settled abroad about such issues. I have friends who have planned to settle, work, earn, save and come back to Pakistan to re-settle in the next 10 yrs. I had a better plan to serve Pakistan through FSP and in the process earn good Legit salary, develop and improve myself as a person and in knowledge, visit places, travel the world, learn a lot ,and meet all the famous people and political figures.

Now about your questions and FSP:

First things first, let me clarify that every Federal Government Service has its own pros and cons. You cannot and should not compare apples and oranges or expect a fish to climb a tree. The point is if you want to have recognition plus authority in Pakistan you should consider PAS/PSP. I never aimed for that, it doesn’t appeal to me. So I am happy with having no authority beyond my jurisdiction, on Police Affairs or District Management.

The run around given by Police or PAS officers is uncommon. Fellow commoners respect each other and the Comradeship stays strong throughout the careers. There might be some incidents, but it is as simple as asking your friend for a favor. Obviously you should not expect anything illegal to be done for you even by your friends. I don’t know where you are getting your information from, but what I can read between the lines is that you are pretty angry at FSP for whatever reason.

For status of an FSP I think you can read other discussions on the forum about residence, perks etc. etc. Other than that the status in Pakistan is that of a Federal government employee with connections every where. That is enough to get your work done.

Yes in FO the trend is not to provide cars to officers till grade 19 or 20 I guess except for some positions where you can get a car due to nature of the job .Otherwise pool vehicles are available for all official work.
In Foreign Service you can get accommodation in Lodges or FO hostels as soon as you join the Foreign Service Academy. PSP and PAS does not have any such perk in the Capital.

And about the establishing business part, again you are apprehensive but it doesn’t happen like that. You aren’t allowed by the foreign countries where you are posted as an official to do any other business than the Official one. I am not answerable for actions of officers in their own personal capacity. Bottom line It is illegal if it is not allowed in a Foreign Country and also illegal if not intimated to own Ministry.

If you want to feel like an Afsar wait for the posting, in Pakistan, you are an Afsar as a Federal Govt Employee and your Afsari does not mean that you start interfering or asserting your authority on other departments. And it stands true for all other services as well.

In the end you should know and understand that the times have changed. You don’t have to wait for the travel logs or memoirs of popular FSP officers after they retire. You can see them; follow them on social media websites. It is all there. The age old insult hurled at FSP “jungle mein morr naacha kis ne dekha” no longer stands true. Now everyone gets to see the “morr” dancing. Especially your own family and friends.

Rest is up to you. If you want a Diplomat to have authority over Police or PAS, that’s not his domain or concern. The Police is there to protect the Diplomats and PAS to assist them. Don’t you see the Diplomatic Enclave here in Islamabad? Or the Diplomats moving around in the Capital? Maybe you are focusing too much on the Protocol vehicles deputed for the Diplomats security. We get the same treatment abroad where it applies as per the rules and security conditions of the country.

I will just give you a small example that I have been in the FO for 3 months only and I have done training at a prime Foreign Institute relating to my service and have been to ICC, ICJ, PCA, NATO HQs, EU Commission, EU Parliament. These are the places you keep on reading about in books only if you are not a Diplomat. Our department, field, concerns, work is very different from rest of the services. Hence is the attitude.

I hope this has eased your angst about FSP to some extent and is helpful to other aspirants going for FSP.

Sir Escobar, thank you so much.

First I am not at all angry at FSP. I think you misunderstood my message. I am angry why dont other officers value FSP for what it is. My issue is that why others dont value FSP for their service. Imagine spending years abroad in hardship, alone, new environment, limited social life and back in Pakistan instead of honorable welcome you are given the cold shoulder everywhere and not even considered an officer. That is why I am angry.

You said "I had a better plan to serve Pakistan through FSP and in the process earn good Legit salary, develop and improve myself as a person and in knowledge, visit places, travel the world, learn a lot ,and meet all the famous people and political figures."

Best of luck to you sir. Do try to change awful attitude towards all persons who visit embassies abroad. Do try to keep water for them. Do try to ensure low wage workers arent treated worse than animals. Do try to earn legit salary by not selling passports or making sure your staff doesnt do it either. (dont report it because then only you will be transferred, rest of the staff will stay there and enjoy milking the hard working overseas Pakistanis)
And when you do meet famous politicians and others as your goal is, do leave a positive impression of Pakistan.


You also commented that "If you want to feel like an Afsar wait for the posting, in Pakistan, you are an Afsar as a Federal Govt Employee and your Afsari does not mean that you start interfering or asserting your authority on other departments. And it stands true for all other services as well. "

I hope sir you are never given cold shoulder by clerks like I saw doing, otherwise you will find out true nature of your "afsari" in an instant.

Furthermore, you added "In the end you should know and understand that the times have changed. You don’t have to wait for the travel logs or memoirs of popular FSP officers after they retire. You can see them; follow them on social media websites."
Why sir havent CSS exams evolved then? Why do you still maintain registers and file numbers on all paper documents? Why is everything printed ten count and distributed before a meeting? Why are job applications still done by post? What is it they say about people who live in glass houses?

Lastly, you said "I will just give you a small example that I have been in the FO for 3 months only and I have done training at a prime Foreign Institute relating to my service and have been to ICC, ICJ, PCA, NATO HQs, EU Commission, EU Parliament. These are the places you keep on reading about in books only if you are not a Diplomat. "

Yet getting inside CCPO office seems to be too high? Yes, you can also visit all of the above places as a student intern. By the way sir, can you tell me the major achievements your team scored for Pakistan on visit to these places, it would help in knowing nature of responsibilities on foreign tours.