The weopons are issue to them... you dont need license for it... its an official weapon issued to you.. an ASP can get any automatic weapon issue against his name.. I have a friend who was doing UTship as ASP shekopura and he even had granade launcher issued...

Although I have great love for PSP yet DMG has no comparision in Civil Service, as they have the senior most positions in bueracracy, and they enjoy the most diverse portfolios! Principal Sec of PM and President to Sec of any independent dept! While most of the PSP officers retired in BPS-20 as DIGs, not all make money, not all become DPOs and CCPOs and very few become IG. This if bitter reality which we have to accept, BUT

BUT BUT BUT a PSP office of grade 18 was posted in PEMRA, how is that possible? he worked there for 1 year plus and then again joined back as SP.

AD ISI posted as DD in IB, later he is posted in Police (ADIG) SP special branch at IG Office Karachi, how is that?

And yes PSP officers can be posted in FIA and IB as well but very few get this chance.


Regards,

__________________
'Never think that God's delays are God's denials. Hold on; hold fast; hold out. Patience is genius!

Both groups are extremely good. It actually depends on you what you want in life. In my view police is suited for those people who are daring and adventurous where as DMG is for the administrative sort of people. Personally as far as I am concerned, police is a more challenging career.

__________________
Regards

The groups should not be compared that way. Bureaucracy is changing nowadays nobody knows that what will be its final stage. Currently some groups like IRS and CTG are gaining more role in government and some, like customs, are fighting for their survival in bureaucracy. Audit and accounts department is facing the a threat from the recent promotions of rankers, and Foreign Service of Pakistan always blame "non career diplomats" and ISI for Pakistan's foreign policy failure. Today, Railways is neglected because of National highway authority. Postal failed as an effective organization because of an effective private sector competitors.


All groups are equally important to Pakistan but Government is focusing more on departments related to economy of Pakistan. If you talk in terms of image before public, DMG and Police are equally famous groups.

i agree with doc, every group has got its own charm

doctor sahab , can u tell me about the ctg. why do u think its gaining more role in government . i am waiting for ur answer. thanks in advance

Here is what I was told by a senior PSP Officer about the two groups. These are his views and are from a practical standpoint.

:Police is more powerful in 17 and 18 grade, then DMG takes over.

:There are no timings in PSP and you have to be on call all the time, if you are not you get a warning and so on. DMG officers on the other hand have fixed timings after which even their own superiors don't bother them unless its urgent business.

:This charm of having gunmen, a stick in hand while pistol in the other like someone mentioned eventually wears out and you start thinking practically. He has had an excellent record on the job and hence was given field postings throughout his career which is not the case with everyone. According to him, it all comes at the expense of your personal life when you can't visit your family/relatives or hometown even on Eid.

: DMG officers are the real policy makers and they get all the lucrative opportunities to go abroad for personal development/further education since most of the scholarships etc passes through their hands. When they meet their batch mates after years in the service for grade promotion in NMC, there is a vast difference between PSP and DMG officer's caliber.

:In DMG your job gets more sophisticated and you deal with policy making and larger issues and get to paint a bigger picture eventually. In PSP you are perennially stuck with robbers, thieves and killers which is laudable since you get to clean up the mess of the society but once you are in higher grades, these things don't fascinate you.

:In PSP favors for people are more like letting go or helping criminals accused of murder or other heinous crimes. Well favoritism of every sort is deplorable but in PSP you mostly end up with blood on your hands.

: DMG enjoys control over PSP as mentioned by F.S. since Police comes under Ministry of Interior among many other departments.

:PSP officers end up being the punching bag when incidents like beating up the lawyers happened when govt tells them to do such stuff but when it is condemned by media, politicians don't take the ownership and Police is the easy scapegoat.

I do not intend to ridicule PSP and these are not my views, I had it as my first preference before going to interview but changed it before viva to DMG after considering both sides of the picture. One should be aware of all the difficulties in the line of duty and when the costs outweigh the benefits, then alternate choices can be made. Life is difficult for honest officers everywhere but in Police it is way more challenging. It is better that one is aware of the complete picture before making such an important decision.

__________________
Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.
-Gandhi

@ Abdullah,

Nice comparison Sir and well said.

In my opinion, its the temperament which matters in the selection between the two.Both have their own pluses and minuses.

I am extremely content on my decision to have placed DMG as my first as it suits my temperament.

Nevertheless the decision gives tough time as both services rather the whole civil service is the best in the country.

__________________
Yes,the first morning of creation wrote what the last dawn of reckoning shall read.Omer Khayyam.

If you must say yes, say it with an open heart. If you must say no, say it without fear.
Coelho

Who are we
The District Management Group, better known as the DMG, is the general management cadre of Pakistan's civil services. The officers of this cadre act as the managers at the District level, later at the provincial level and finally at the policy-making levels in the highest echelons of the Federal bureaucracy. In this respect, the term DMG appears to be a misnomer, since it only reflects the opening few years of the career of the officer.
where did we start from
The DMG is the successor service of the famous Indian Civil Service (ICS), a cadre service of civil service officers, that was created by the British to administer the British India. At the time of independence and partition in 1947, the division of India into two countries necessitated the bifurcation of the Civil Service and the Armed Forces. The Pakistani cadres were initially named as the Pakistan Administrative Service (PAS). In 1950, the Civil Service of Pakistan (CSP) took its place. In the 1973 administrative reforms, the CSP was abolished and the DMG was born.
where do we come from
Pakistan's federal bureaucracy primarily consists of 12 occupational groups, known by the collective name of Central Superior Services (CSS). They are inducted through competitive exams, also called the CSS examination, conducted by the Federal Public Service Commission during the Fall of each year, on merit. The persons appearing on the top in the merit list, in each of the federating units of Pakistan, usually opt for the DMG. If the CSS officers are the cream of the nation, the DMG officers are the top crust of the layer of cream. The DMG attracts the best of young brains into its fold, with around 20 young officers getting inducted into the DMG each year, who are then trained and groomed to become the top administrators and managers of Pakistan.
what are we
This elite group of civil servants has given the nation, not only the best of managers, administrators and policy formulators, the service boasts of the fact that four of the Presidents, two of the Prime Ministers and four of the Chief Justices of Pakistan, had been public servants. In addition, a number of Governors, Ministers, Ambassadors and Judges have been men and women from the civil service. The cadre has not only distinguished itself in public service but many of them also outshined as writers and academics, and made their mark.
What do we do
The starting point for the DMG officers at the District level used to be the Assistant Commissioner of a subdivision. Since the Devolution System of 2001, even the nomenclature of the posts has undergone a change. The DMG Officers can still enter as Assistant Commissioners in Islamabad and the Northern Areas, Assistant Political Agents in the Tribal Areas, Deputy District Officers (Revenue) in Punjab and Sind, as Assistant Coordination Officers (ACO) in NWFP and as Assistant District Administrative Officers (ADAO) in Balochistan. The are entrusted with general management, administration of the State land, revenue matters, coordination between the government departments and (except in Punjab and Sind) law and order. They may rise upto the level of District Coordination Officer (DCO) who is the top public servant, and as such the principal representative of the State, in the District. He is the head of the District bureaucracy.

At senior levels, the DMG Officer becomes Secretary of any of the various Government departments like the Education Secretary, Finance Secretary and the like in the provincial governments. The horizontal mobility of the DMG officers ensures wide experience and exposure to the officers who are posted to various command and staff appointments at the Secretariat, at the attached departments and Directorates or even in the field. To give an example, at one time, the Director General of the Parks and Horticulture Authority as well as that of the Sewerage Authority of Lahore, were DMG Officers.

At the summit of his or her career, the DMG Officer becomes Secretary or equivalent ranks in the Federal Government of Pakistan or the Chief Secretary in a province. The DMGs are "specialist generalists" who serve the nation in the highest traditions of the civil service. The country is proud of its elite civil service and the DMG is proud of having been entrusted with the task of public service in Pakistan.

The community of 800 or so DMG officers, are also distinguished for their espirit de corps and their fraternal bonds with each other. The DMG fraternity is distinguished for the officer-unity which is the secret of their strength. The DMG is another name for leadership, for excellence and for integrity. It is not a Service, it is a Tradition.
Introduction
We are perceived as members of an elite Civil Service Group that has for decades remained envy of many for various reasons: most of those who failed to qualify for any public service, as many others could not join the choicest service through fair or foul routes. Significant size of the membership constitutes the top selectees of a domicile-based merit FPSC selection system that permitted some bias in favor of smaller and backward regions to the extent of concessions in upper age limits and number of chances allowed; many more got into this class through various discretionary dispensations.
Genesis and History
Initially constituted in February 1974 through an Office Memorandum (OM) of the Establishment Division, the DMG drew its primary membership from the Civil Service of Pakistan (CSP) besides some elements drawn from a host of sources and services (Para of the OM 2/2/74/ARC dated 17 February 1974). The CSP is a subsisting All-Pakistan Service, established in November 1950 in pursuance of an inter-provincial agreement, and had subsumed Pakistan Administrative Service (PAS), the short lived successor to the Erstwhile Indian Civil Service (ICS) that had in turn incorporated some elements of what was known to be the General Administrative Reserve(GAR) raised during Second World War in addition to listed post holders from the Provincial Civil Service (Executive Branch). All these elements had been integrated into one unified cadre in 1947. In late 1981,Tribal Areas Group, earlier constituted in October 1973, also through an OM, as an All Pakistan Service Group, was merged with the 1974 version of the DMG to compose the present second generation service entity. The TAG was composed of CSP officers inducted from the armed forces in yesteryears, provincial political & Revenue services officers from Balochistan and the NWFP. The 1949 agreement was enforced through an 8th November 1950 Cabinet Resolution ( no F.25/4/50-Ests(SE1). Thereafter, extensive consultations ensued amongst the federating units and a formal framework was developed and epitomized as constitutional Rules, notified by the Establishment Division in the Cabinet Secretariat vide No.F.25/12/51-SE1 on 21 June 1954, in terms of the enabling provisions of Section 241 of the 1935 Act. At the relevant time, the latter had the status of Provisional Constitution of the newly born state adopted on 12 August 1947, with certain adaptations. The agreement could be modified with the consent of the federating units, but was not open to challenge by or before any forum except a signatory competent to invoke the advisory jurisdiction of the Federal, later Supreme Court of Pakistan. The concept design of the DMG is thus rooted in the CSP, one of the two subsisting All-Pakistan Services, the other being the PSP, composed and created as fiction of the Constitutional in pursuance of two inter-provincial agreements arrived at the Premier's Conference held on 26 December 1949, later ratified by the federal and provincial Cabinets. It needs to be noted that the Objectives Resolution was also approved at the same conference. A major in-road into provincial autonomy incorporated in the 1935 Act had thus been agreed to, and willingly sanctified by the successive constitutions, including the unanimously approved 1973 constitution (Explanation to Article 240). Until August 1973, all matters relating to structures of service institutions as well the terms and conditions of its membership were regulated by the principles laid down by constitution itself; no statute had been enacted for that purpose. The CSP Resolution/Agreement also covered both the structure of the Service as well as basic terms & conditions of service; unlike the ICS, it was contemplated as centralized service. Its substantive covenants entrusted day to day administration & management to the Governor General(GG), later President, on behalf of the provinces to which the officers would be assigned for performing the agreed functions. However, as per the relevant federal cabinet decisions, the title of the Service was determined with prior consultations with the service membership.Key principles to regulate methods & sources of appointments on domicile-based merit determined on the basis of country-wide equal opportunity competitive examinations, had been clearly laid down. According to a 1992 Supreme Court judgment, the service had been created by Allah Almighty in Heavens and with his own hands. All matters spelt out in the agreement excepting the rules regulating training, probation & seniority, were to be determined with mutual consultations of the contracting parties. In line with the above, Pakistan Public Service Commission conceived as an autonomous constitutional agency was designated to advise Federal Government in all matters relating to appointments, whether by initial recruitment, transfer or promotions against specified & defined posts described in the schedule appended to the Agreement, the disciplinary matters of service membership, as also determination of litigation expenses incurred by an officer in service related litigation. A perusal of 759 posts specified for CSP, as amended in 1966, would show the extent to which the federating units had voluntarily surrendered their Autonomy; the CSP agreement also contemplated significant departures from the concepts of 'Division of Powers' and 'Separation of Powers'. With some specified exceptions, the schedule posts were required to be manned by Service membership. There was however a quid pro quo: being custodian of the Service, the GG was expected to uphold the substantives covenants for rule-based management for good governance, in public interest. The service membership was drawn from a number of sources, without compromising its merit. Within carefully crafted structures, the core group strength was derived from top selectees from the FPSC annual examinations whereas officers from the two Provincial Civil services(Judicial and Executive branches), members of the Bar and officers from the armed forces were also appointed to it; specific quota had been prescribed from every source. The Service membership thus blended offered its best from at least five sources with such a varied background, from within regularly constituted services as well as open market. The numbers of posts, and the sources of filling the vacancies through initial recruitment, transfer and promotion besides temporary assignments not exceeding one year, had been specified, with no room for any ambiguity or backdoor entry. In 1965, following a decision in a 1956 Writ Petition filed by a PCS officer asserting his right to appointment as a District Judge, Act XXI was enacted on the initiative of the Supreme Court and High Court dully endorsed by the executive and legislative branches at the federal and Provincial levels to operationalize the constitutional command with respect to selection and appointment of High Court Judges: The CSP was notified as the Service qualifying for such appointments from one of the three sources described by Article 78 of the 1962 Constitution. In 1967, Act XVI was promulgated, to empower the President to determine the principles for apportionment of Provincial posts amongst the members of the Service and Provincial Executive & Judicial Civil Services. No doubt could be entertained on the rights & obligations flowing from the basic agreement, much less those impinging upon the eligibility for judicial appointments. Excluding the periods of constitutional deviations, generally, till late August 1973, the federating units generally observed their respective constitutional obligations. Attempts made to bye-pass the FPSC mechanism were frustrated and contained. However, beginning, 21August 1973, and despite constitutional & statutory recognition of the service institution, to date, the Establishment Division unleashed an arbitrary campaign focused at disintegrating its elite character through executive instruments ex-facie inconsistent with its trustee obligation. Not only that it modified the fundamental Covenants to bye-pass the FPSC in future, it opened floodgates of political patronage to undo the FPSC allocations during two preceding decades at least. The core membership was demoralized nay humiliated since March 1969 as summary dismissals and arbitrary removals became order of the day. Fundamental covenants were also modified without regard to attendant implication for future of the federation without reflecting any sensitivity to the self respect or professional standing of the service membership. The agreement was unilaterally tempered & amended through subservient rule making powers derived from a hurriedly drafted Civil Servants Ordinance, introduced on 15 August 1973,with no nexus or relevance to service structures or principles for their managements. During this phase, Office Memoranda became to be the norm to create new All Pakistan Service entities with the same ease with which subsisting Service institutions were defaced, and all under the cover of reforms: What Constitution had mandated to be done 'by an Act of Parliament' was accomplished through executive actions otherwise inconsistent with the 1949 agreement and instruments issued under an irrelevant statute. The 1974 OM on DMG is one such executive instrument. The three sacrosanct principles, namely exclusive role of FPSC as a neutral agency designated to make recommendations for appointments, its marginalization nay dis-association from advising the President on qualification for and methods of appointment in line with the FPSC Ordinance 1973 were ignored with contempt. The FPSC was not consulted in matters relating to principles for transfer from one service to the other, promotions, disciplinary proceedings and payment of litigation expenses. Specific provisions regulating apportionment of provincial & Federal posts amongst competing claims, sanctity of the description of posts or methods & sources of appointments thereto had all been done away with. By mid-September 1973, the Service Nomenclature was also substituted with APUG, a title shared with the PSP similarly treated at least till October 1985 when its substantive title and structures were restored after extensive manipulation in the seniorities. What was hitherto regulated by constitution based rule-framework was arrogated by and for the executive will & subjective discretion to determine, with far reaching implications for the very future of good governance and the state. The importance of Law & Order was undermined as institutional linkages conceived and built in by the founding fathers to bind the various constitutional organs were abolished; the wheels were retained but the tie-rod was dispensed with without creating a viable and efficacious alternate institution on ground. THE FPSC expected to do the whistle blowing assumed golden silence despite its statutory mandate; at the relevant time, it was Chaired by a retired Judge of High Court still pursuing in Supreme Court his appeal against the 1964 dismissal of his Writ Petition as his Counsel had also done appropriate ground work, as Federal Law Minister. The situation did not change much after the 1977 military take over. On the other hand, not satisfied with what damage had been inflicted by then, in 1981, Act XVI of 1967 was repealed without any justification, to generate an unending confusion with respect to sharing of provincial posts between the DMG and provincial services. However, it needs to be noted that Act XXI of 1965 that regulates appointments of service officers as High Court Judges remains on the statute book; in fact in early 1988, after the expiry of constitutional extended deadline for separation of judiciary from the executive, the Act was amended to declare that the DMG was the service that qualifies for appointment as High Court Judges. Despite that legislative initiative, the operationalization of this statute remains in abeyance for the last 31 years. As direct consequence, the composition of the superior Courts has been distorted. The first generation DMG was thus born and created by an executive fiat: amazingly, the first group of DMG officers took their FPSC examination inter alia for appointments to the CSP as their top choice; however, by the time their selections were finalized from out of what is known as the 'First Common', they ended up as the first DMG batch as the de-facto successors to the CSP, without any diminution of the CSP clout. According to an authoritative opinion rendered by a former Law Secretary, Mr. Justice Aslam Nasir Zahid in 1989-1990, and endorsed by the then Attorney General, late Mr. Yahya Bakhtiar, in the absence of a parliamentary statute to create a new All-Pakistan Service to date, the OM that created the DMG was an executive instrument that supplements & elucidates certain aspects of subsisting 1954 Agreement; in case of any conflict between the two, the latter Agreement would hold the ground. Those of us who may wish to pursue the matter in some depth, may note that the concept of Occupational Groups is alien to the Constitution and the validly made service laws that recognize Federal, Provincial and All-Pakistan Services institutions and posts created in connection with the affairs of a province or federation, with a caveat that while an All-Pakistan service could only be created 'by an Act of Parliament', other service entities & posts may be created or abolished by executive actions, in public interest. Presently, except one out of eleven Services of the federation i.e. Foreign Service of Pakistan, all other Services are titled as Occupational Groups; Likewise, one of the two All-Pakistan Services is classified as managed as a service while the other is treated as a Group; that is ex-facie discriminatory both in law and practice. Those interested to pursue the subject in detail may wish to refer amongst others, to the following legal instruments:
Act of India 1935 adopted as the first Provisional Constitution on 12 August 1947, and relevant chapters on civil services in other constitutional Acts since repealed in 1935, and those enforced in 1956, 1962, 1972 and 1973.
Cabinet Resolution notified on 08 November 1950.
The Inter-Provincial Agreement notified on 21 June 1954 as amended in 1966, and later in August 1973.
Civil service of Pakistan ( Probation, Training & Seniority) Rules 1954, initially repealed in 1990 without approval of the designated Authority but later validated retroactively by an Ordinance in 2001.
High Court Judges Qualification Act ( XXI of 1965) as amended by Act I of 1988.
Civil Service ( listed Post Holders) Act (XVI of 1967) that was repealed in 1981 under an omnibus ordinance issued for spring cleaning.
Civil Services( allocation of Service) Rules 1966.
The official proceedings of the Governor's Conference of February 1959 wherein the continuation of the Judicial branch of the Service was agreed to.
Establishment Division's SRO no 1238( 1)/ARC dated 21 August 1973.
Establishment Division's SRO of 15 September 1973 whereby the Service title was abrogated.
Establishment Divisions OM's of October 1973 on TAG, February 1974 on DMG since amended in December 1976 retroactively.
Establishment Division's OM's of February 1975 and April 1976 on the creation of Secretariat Groups II and III generations after renaming the Secretariat Group I as OMG in January 1975.
The provincial post sharing Agreement affected in the inter-provincial conference of 19 September 1993 chaired by caretaker Prime Minister.
1994 Chatha Committee report of 04 November 1996 on federal secretariat restructuring and staffing.

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Yes,the first morning of creation wrote what the last dawn of reckoning shall read.Omer Khayyam.

If you must say yes, say it with an open heart. If you must say no, say it without fear.
Coelho

sir i agree wid ur views and it is true that DMG is the mightiest group among CSS cadres. but sir if everyone thinks like that and follow the perks, privileges and power then who will join PSP to deal with crimes in the country?
your are informed that there are no timings of duty in PSP but he didn't tell your about the ayath written on the badges of police officers:

Amongst the greatest obligations are amr-bil-Ma’roof (ordering for acknowledged virtues) and nahi anil munkar (forbidding from sin). Allah (SWT) says: “And there should be a group amongst you who invite towards good, order for acknowledged virtues, forbid from sin and these it is that are the successful ones” (Ale Imran: 104).
we sleep all the night bcz military is deployed on borders and police is patroling in the streets in summer, winter, spring, rains, and in all sorts of extreme weathers. who is on most sacred duty a person sleeping or offering tahajd prayer and other ibadat or military and police on our protection?
i am still a student n there is a long way for css but i have shared my feelings which i learned from the society. you are experienced n u know better suitable for ur future. take my comments positive.

__________________
No matter how fast i run or how far i go it wont escape me, pain, misery, emptiness.

So, we have at least some common grounds to start the debate.

Every key personality is always on duty. Chief Ministers, Governors, President, PM, CJ, COAS have camp offices at where ever they stay. There offices move with their convoys. Similarly there should be no surprise that SSP operations is always available for duty, while secretary social welfare can have an 8 hours duty job, and can relax afterwards. Even if you want this luxury in PSP, get some khudde line job, and you'll have all the free time of this world at your disposal. Most people opt for CSS to get rid of ordinary 8-hours routine jobs and get something more adventurous. So as far my very own personal opinion is considered, i don't consider it a negative point.

Yes, I admit it all comes at the expense of your personal life. And I also think, it worths it.

Again I agree with my friend. DMG officers are the real policy makers of our society, and that constitutes the backbone of our entire system. And that is why they are somewhat more groomed for policy making things than PSP officers. I never disagreed with this argument. But my point of emphasize has been that Pakistan is a power hungry society. We do not respect a worthy professor, but we do respect an unmannered SHO. Pakistan unfortunately is a state where power does not lie with the stroke of a pen, but it comes out of the barrel of the gun.


This is a very wrong generalization.

I disagree with that. And i have discussed in detail in my previous post why i disagree.

Do you think it is only PSP officers who end up being punching bags? On whose name FIRs are launched in recent lawyers beating Lahore incident? But yes, it is true that the nature of the matters with which Police deals are much more sensitive, so if anything goes wrong, there are bitter consequences.

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire: it extinguishes the small and enkindles the great – Comte de Bussy-Babutin