DMG: css vs pms

[MaShWaNeE]

What is the difference between the DMG officer of css and pms. Keeping in mind the 18th amendment (provincial autonomy) please reply.
Regards

[shtanzeel]

18th amendment hasn't dissolved APUG nor restricted their role, there have been some proposals by various writters in newspapers that as there is more autonomy the provinces the provinces should have their own services and Police Officers; but nothing like this in Pipeline in Establishment division. So old setup & difference between DMG and PMS officers is expected to continue in the Short Run in the wake of 18th amendment.

[DEVOLUTION GEEK]

This federation to provincial devolution has not affected DMG much because DMG is not a federal service. It is an APUG service which comes under the domain of both provincial and federal governments.
But on the other hand, most of the other CSS groups like OMG, C&T etc. are hard hit because of the devolution of ministries and the transfer of most of the powers from federal government to the provinces. Likewise, the career prospects for DMG officers are also reduced as far as the DMG officers posted in federal government is concerned. So in the years to come, you would see less officers in grade 22.
If i were in your boots, i would place PMS at 4th or 5th place after DMG, PSP, FSP and IRS.
This is the most unfortunate thing as far as the merit is concerned because most of the PMS officers at this stage are promotees from patwaris, tehsildars, secretariat service, readers and stenographers. In Punjab, these clerks and patwaris are now demanding the seats and promotions of DMG officers.
The effects of 18th Amendment on CSS groups are as under:

DMG = Authority curtailed in federation but enhanced in provinces.

PSP = No Change

FSP = Authority enhanced as foreign affairs is now the primary subject of federation. Future of foreign service is also very bright now.

IRS = No substantial curtailment in authority except for the transfer of the authority of collecting tax on services to the provinces. In Sindh, IRS is the one that is hardest hit.

Customs = Authority curtailed a lot after the establishment of IRS. Future is bleak as far as the promotion is concerned.

Pakistan Audit & Account = Authority curtailed as far as the posting of PAAS officers in federal secretariat is concerned.

MLCG = No change

C&TG = Future appears to be dim

OMG = Future is dim after the devolution

Postal Services = No Change

Railways = Future is dim

Information Group = Future is dim

[shtanzeel]

Originally Posted by DEVOLUTION GEEK

This federation to provincial devolution has not affected DMG much because DMG is not a federal service. It is an APUG service which comes under the domain of both provincial and federal governments.
But on the other hand, most of the other CSS groups like OMG, C&T etc. are hard hit because of the devolution of ministries and the transfer of most of the powers from federal government to the provinces. Likewise, the career prospects for DMG officers are also reduced as far as the DMG officers posted in federal government is concerned. So in the years to come, you would see less officers in grade 22.
If i were in your boots, i would place PMS at 4th or 5th place after DMG, PSP, FSP and IRS.
This is the most unfortunate thing as far as the merit is concerned because most of the PMS officers at this stage are promotees from patwaris, tehsildars, secretariat service, readers and stenographers. In Punjab, these clerks and patwaris are now demanding the seats and promotions of DMG officers.
The effects of 18th Amendment on CSS groups are as under:

DMG = Authority curtailed in federation but enhanced in provinces.

PSP = No Change

FSP = Authority enhanced as foreign affairs is now the primary subject of federation. Future of foreign service is also very bright now.

IRS = No substantial curtailment in authority except for the transfer of the authority of collecting tax on services to the provinces. In Sindh, IRS is the one that is hardest hit.

Customs = Authority curtailed a lot after the establishment of IRS. Future is bleak as far as the promotion is concerned.

Pakistan Audit & Account = Authority curtailed as far as the posting of PAAS officers in federal secretariat is concerned.

MLCG = No change

C&TG = Future appears to be dim

OMG = Future is dim after the devolution

Postal Services = No Change

Railways = Future is dim

Information Group = Future is dim

The situation is not that dismal at federal level. We may also keep in mind that the number of ministries were very small uptil 2002 but many ministries were bifurcated into two, three ministries or divisions and this created such a large number of ministries. Now yet there are some ministries at islamabad. Yes promotions in BS 22 will be restricted a bit. Chances for promotion of OMG officers will reduce, Horizontal mobility of other federal services will be reduced thus their chances of induction in SC also minimized. But APUG will suffer only for BS 22 promotions as most of them will be adjusted in BS 21 very easily, in provinces by upgrading the posts of Secretaries, Commissioners, into BS 21. Even they will be adjusted in Provinces in BS 22, as Principal Secretaries, as Mr. Sibtain Fazl-e-Halim etc were adjusted in Punjab in BS 22 as Principal Secretaries in BS 22 of their departments. So yet there will still be promotions in BS 22, but yes their will be a bit reduction in the number of officers promoted to BS 22.

[nudret sultan baloch]

kisi ko pms k exams ki exact date pta hey kia

[floydian]

Originally Posted by DEVOLUTION GEEK

This is the most unfortunate thing as far as the merit is concerned because most of the PMS officers at this stage are promotees from patwaris, tehsildars, secretariat service, readers and stenographers. In Punjab, these clerks and patwaris are now demanding the seats and promotions of DMG officers.

An OR (Other ranks e.g NCOs) or a son of a JCO in army can become a 4 star General but he can never become an officer... likewise a ranker in civil services can be promoted to grade 20 but again he just can't become an officer. Hence, in my view this practice of promoting the ORs/rankers to higher grades must be done away with. Otherwise what has happened to Pak army under the watch of those generals who were either ORs themselves once; or sons of JCOs/ORs can happen to all other institutions. This is due to the fact that we inherited these once mighty and professional institutions from the Britishers.. but we forgot their golden rule of keeping the subordinates to an officer at an arm's length.

[DEVOLUTION GEEK]

@floydian

Well said

@ shatanzeel

Yes, this happened in the past and we hope this trend will be repeated in the future too, as experienced civil servants can better handle the intricacies than the newbies. But the government of Punjab is perhaps the most notorious one as far as the adjustment of senior civil servants in the province is concerned because it has already abolished some ministries and planning to join seven to eight other ministries too. Also, there are five junior, grade 19, DMGs working as secretaries when no less than fifteen grade 20 and above DMGs are serving either as OSDs or working in junior posts.

[Natiq]

Originally Posted by floydian

An OR (Other ranks e.g NCOs) or a son of a JCO in army can become a 4 star General but he can never become an officer...

The son of a JCO has all the right and can become a good officer, if he has the talent... Saying otherwise is not only logically wrong, but is an appalling prejudice and bigotry. Army and civil service are a job, not aristocratic empires. It is people who think this, who cannot become good officers.

[shtanzeel]

Originally Posted by DEVOLUTION GEEK

@floydian

Well said

@ shatanzeel

Yes, this happened in the past and we hope this trend will be repeated in the future too, as experienced civil servants can better handle the intricacies than the newbies. But the government of Punjab is perhaps the most notorious one as far as the adjustment of senior civil servants in the province is concerned because it has already abolished some ministries and planning to join seven to eight other ministries too. Also, there are five junior, grade 19, DMGs working as secretaries when no less than fifteen grade 20 and above DMGs are serving either as OSDs or working in junior posts.

Thats because of the policies of curent Punjab Govt. But regimes changes and policy changes. In Parvex Elahiu govt. Punjab was the province that acomodated most of BS 21 and few BS 22 officers as well...

[Saleeqa Batool]

I think DMGs power wont be curtailed for certain reasons

1-Province are administratively under control of DMGs for example Chief Secretaries, additional Chief Secretaries, PS to CMs in provinces are mostly DMG officers.They will not allow PMS to be treated at par with DMG.

2- DMGs get promotions early so there is no question of PMS officers challenging the powers of DMGs.

3-Currently PMS service structure is improved , and they are getting better posts for example many of PMS officers of Batch 1&2 have been appointed as Assistant Commissioner in various subdivisions of Punjab. A fresh DMG get the same post initially though s(he) move in to 18 much sooner than a PMS Officer.

4-PMS officers association is struggling for improvement of its service structure and they have succeeded in getting attentions of those who are at helm of affairs.So possibility canot be ruled out that PMS officers may get good share in posting in the days to come.However this will not happen to prejudice of DMGs

5-While federal ministries have been devolved to provinces , there would be extended demand for staff at secretariat to run the new ministries.So there may be expected that stay of newly inducted PMS officers at Secretariat will be prolonged.