#11
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Ha ha.....yaar i have worked in Punjab Civil Secretariate
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I was not expecting any different from you. Same rhetoric Omer Rasul used to utter about PCS cadre. You reminded me about my days when i worked in Punjab Civil Secretariat. I have meet Ahad cheema ( did not mention intentionally, but since you have mentioned him as a very intelligent officer, and i know what intelligence mean in bureaucracy). They are all same. Almost all misuse authority. Nevertheless, i am in no mood to start PCS vs DMG war, but i am disappointed that mighty DMG has not learnt any lesson. Allah apko izaat karny aur karwany ki toufeeq day. Allah Nighaban o Nasir |
#12
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[QUOTE]
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__________________
still searching for my soul.............. |
The Following User Says Thank You to DEVOLUTION GEEK For This Useful Post: | ||
Hamza Salick (Monday, August 15, 2011) |
#13
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Injustice to CSP/DMG officers in Punjab
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Dear member you are wrong. Mr. Ahad Cheema, is in grade 18. he is very junior officer of DMG but working as DCO Lahore(Yes there is merit). This time his name is included in the course for promotion in 19 grade.This course will be started on 5th of September 2011. Dear members please read this and then decide is there any Injustice to CSP/DMG officers in Punjab? • PCS officers have been deprived of their right of time scale promotion. As per rules, they are promoted from BS-17 to BS-18 after 5-years of service and then next promotion in BPS-19 is after further 7-years (cumulative 12-years). But hundreds of PCS officers are yet waiting for their first promotion even after serving 17-long years in the same grade i.e. 17. Some of PCS Officers were promoted from BS-17 to BS-18 after 21 years of service. While there are many examples when DMG promoted its officers to BS-19 having less than 10 years of service while as per their own rules regarding promotion at least 12 years service is must for promotion from BS-17 to BS-19. So for their own benefit they have been • There are 3 PCS officers among Provincial Secretaries (Total provincial secretaries = 42) • Only One PCS officer is commissioner (total commissioners=9) • Out of 36-DCO only 12 are PCS. • DCO and Commissioner Lahore is “NO-GO AREA” for PCS Officers. Reason for all this is unconstitutional posting of DMG/APUG officers in the provinces. POSTING OF DMG/APUG OFFICERS IN PROVINCES IS VIOLATION OF CONSTITUTION OF PAKISTAN Before going in detail about the constitutional position, it is appropriate to discuss how DMG/APUG are posted in the provinces. There was section 263 of the India Act 1935 according to which they could be posted in the provinces after getting the consent of the province(s) through a formal agreement Although, this section 263 was abolished by virtue of section 10 of the Independence Act 1947, the CSP (DMG) were dominant in the Centre as well as in the provinces. So talking undue advantage of their position, the Governor General and 4-provinces entered into an agreement by virtue of which all 4-provinces surrendered certain number of seats in favour of the federation against which CSP could have been appointed. This agreement is called CSP (Composition & Cadre) Rules 1954. By virtue of these rules, Province of the Punjab surrendered 55 POSTS TO THE Federal Govt. out of these 55 posts 25% posts were again reserved for PCS and 17 seats belonged to the present judiciary like judges of the High Court, D&S judges etc. So, out of these 55 seats, net share of CSP (DMG) was 28 seats as discussed above. Are these CSP (Composition & Cadre) Rules Valid and Legal? The simple answer is “NO”. Detail is as under:- 1. As per the constitution of Islamic Republic of Pakistan the very posting of DMG/APUG officers in the provinces is ultra vires and against the constitution of Pakistan. Under section 263, India Act 1935 they could be posted in the provinces if any province and Federation enter into a n agreement to the effect. But this section 263 mentioned above ceased to exist w.e.f. 15th August 1947 by virtue of section 10 of the Independence Act 1947, the date on which the independence Act 1947 was enforced Section 10 the Independence Act is reproduced here:- “10 Secretary of State’s services, etc:- The provisions of this Act keeping in force provisions of the Government of India Act, 1935 shall not continue in force the provisions of that Act relating to appointments to the civil services of and civil posts under, the Crown in India by the Secretary of State on the provisions of that Act relating to the reservation of posts……… In the light of the above mentioned discussion, it is clear that these rules of 1954 were made ultra vires as section 263 did not exist at that time……..rather it ceased to exist the morning when Pakistan came into being i.e. 14th of August 1947. It is very important to note that this was very much in the knowledge of the architects of CSP 1954 rules, therefore, although they reproduced the language of section 265 of India Act 1935 but did not mention that these rules were being framed under section 263. 2. OPINION OF LAW DEPARTMENT & PUNJAB ASSEMBLY There is another interpretation of the constitution made by the Law Department of the Govt. of the Punjab which it gave to the Provincial assembly of the Punjab in 1986. Actually in February 1986 a number of honorable MPAs tabled the questions in the Punjab assembly regarding the miseries of PCS officers. Consequently, the then CM Punjab constituted a high powered committee of the Punjab Assembly (under Rule 160 of the Rules of Procedure of the Provincial Assembly of the Punjab 1973, vide No.PAP/Legis-I(19)/85/6 dated 21-04-1986) comprising of 11-MPAs. It is pertinent to mention that present Foreign Minister Hon. Makhdoom Shah Mehmood Qureshi was the member of the above mentioned committee. This committee listened to all stake holders including PCS Executive, PCS Secretariat DMG, Law Department of Punjab Govt. and others and finally published a report in the form of a 149-pages book which was approved by the Punjab Assembly by a unanimous resolution (copy enclosed). In this report, the committee unanimously agreed (page 81-86, Chapter IX of the book) that:- “Validity of CSP Composition and Cardre Rules 1954: The result of the above discussions is that the posts surrendered by the Punjab Government under the CSP (Composition and Cadre) Rules 1954 stand restored to Punjab…” It means that 55 seats (net share of CSP was 28 seats) which were given to Federal Govt by the Punjab under an agreement came back to Punjab so, after the promulgation of 1956 constitution very posting of DMGs in Punjab is against the constitution of Pakistan. DMG FURTHER VIOLATED THE CONSTITUTION From the above discussion it is clear that: a. either the very posting w.e.f. 15 August 1947 is ICS/CSP/Federal officers in the provinces is ultra vires or b. The day when 1956 constitution was promulgated, the CSP rules 1954 came to an end. But instead of complying with the constitution:- 1. The mighty DMG on 21-08-1973 (just after 7-days of promulgation of 1973 Constitution) increased their seats in all provinces through a notification. For example, in Punjab, they raised their seats from 55 (their net share was 28 seats as discussed above as per 1954 rules) to 115 and also abolished the 25% quota of PCS into that. 2. They keep on trying to further increase their seats in the provinces by no Govt. agreed to Finally they found the right time and right man (who knew nothing about services in Pakistan) to get their job done----it was the INTERIM GOVT. of Mr. Moeen Qureshi. ILLEGAL IPCC (“MOEN QURESHI”) FORMULA---1993 A meeting was arranged by the DMGs under the care-taker Prime Minister, Mr. Moeen Qureshi, on 19th September 1993 in Islamabad which was attended by caretaker Governors, caretaker Chief Ministers and Chief Secretaries (who all were DGM) of the four provinces. The Minutes of the said Meeting were issued by the Joint Secretary to the Cabinet vide No. 47/CS/93 dated 22nd September 1993 (Copy enclosed). The meeting approved the following percentage share of APUG in the revised cadre schedule of APUG posts in the provinces: Province BPS-17 BPS-18 BPS-19 BPS-20 BPS-21 Punjab 25% 40 % 50% 60% 65% Sindh 25% 40 % 50% 60% 65% NWFP 25% 40 % 50% 60% 65% Balochistan 25% 40 % 50% 60% 65% • The most important question about this so-called sharing formula is THAT INTERIM GOVT. DOES NOT HAVE A MANDATE TO DECIDE SUCH CRUCIAL ISSUED AT ALL ,interim govt is to carry day to day business and to conduct the election and NOTHING ELSE. • The above table clearly reflects that as DMG/APUG Officers got a lions share of all important posts of the provinces and marginalized the PCS officers in their provinces what a justice that all 22 grades seats for DMG (not even a single for PCS) and just for 35% seats in grade 21 to all Provincial Civil Services…… • The Mala fide is further clear that the said arrangement was made in a surreptitious manner that for last many years said Minutes of Meeting could not known to PCS as they were marked “Secret/Confidential”. • Deliberately and with Mala fide intention, no PCS Officers of any province was consulted nor invited to attend the meeting. Probably this was the only “Sharing” formula where the other party (PCS) was kept in absolute dark. • In this way, the DMG acted as judge, jury and executioner themselves. WHERE IS PROVINCIAL AUTONOMY? • The very posting of DMG/APUG officers in the provinces is totally against the provincial autonomy as enshrined in the constitution of Pakistan (for example article 141 & 142 © of the constitution) as well qualified officers of the province (PCS) ARE THERE AND THERE IS NO NEED OF DMG IN THE PROVINCE. By getting posting in the province, they are usurping the rights of the provincial officers as they get their promotions against the seats or provincial civil service officers. Basically, ICS was devised and evolved by East India Company / British to establish and consolidate their colonial rule in the sub-continent in 1853. This service was, initially manned exclusively by Europeans. Gradually, the demand for induction of locals (Indians) into that was getting stronger and stronger and consequently, PCS service was created in 1887 by the Aitcheson Commission. • If they can manage the affairs of the Federal Govt. for which they appeared from Federal Public Service Commission. It would be a great service to the nation. After 64 years of independence they are not otherwise required by the provinces at all at the cost of PCS Officers. |
#14
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[QUOTE=DEVOLUTION GEEK;338448]
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Typical mind set, same old rhetoric , PCS officers are dumb, they lack professional training, they are corrupt, and list goes on. I can name (but will not as its not a proper forum ) DMG officers of various CTPs, who misused authority. I can even give documentary proof that CSP and DMG association is utilizing public funds for maintaining its office at Punjab Civil Officers Mess, GOR, Lahore. Have you ever visited that place? You will be surprised to see the facilities, these mighty DMG officers are enjoying at the expense of public funds. I have even seen documents, of welfare wing of S & GAD Punjab, every officer above BS- 19 is using at least 2 1300cc cars ( fuel and driver are provided by Punjab Govt, actually fuel limit is 150 liters / month but if you are DMG officer, you can even get 300 lt/month). Ab aur kiya kiya batoun? Batain toun bohat hain, magar its small hain kay batatay huay acha nahi lagta. PTCL Bill + Broadband bill of several DMG officers, not all, but those who are close aides of current office bearers are paid by S & GAD. These mighty DMG officers black mail lower staff, and us arm twisting techniques to persuade accounts departments of their respective department to arrange funds. Such spending is seldom discussed in public accounts committees. Ajj kay liyay itna kafi hai? Also i am posting this message through my android phone. I hope, once you will be inducted in DMG, you will shun these sins. Allah Nighaban o Nasir
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" None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those, who falsely believe that they are free" Goethe |
#15
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@mohammadmohsinali
Ahad Cheema is in grade 19. : Meriticracy should prevail so CSP/DMG should be given precedence. @Ali Randhava Quote:
Dear! I have the documentary proof that several junior PMS officers in Grade 17 and 18, posted in districts, are enjoying far better perks and privileges than the senior DMGs. I can also name you several grade 17 and 18 PMS officers who are enjoying no less than three 1600 CC and 1300 CC cars at their disposal. I am using iPhone not android. I hope, once you will be inducted in PMS, you will shun these sins. Allah Nighaban o Nasir
__________________
still searching for my soul.............. |
The Following User Says Thank You to DEVOLUTION GEEK For This Useful Post: | ||
Hamza Salick (Monday, August 15, 2011) |
#16
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@Devolution Geek....Your research and the 'no-nonsese' attitude is commendable.I agree to whatever you have to say.DMGians should fight for their right,as they have earned it simply by coming through a much gruelling process than PCS officers.In my humble observation,I have,atleast 80% of the times seen those people inducted in PCS who have failed to get allocated in any of the 12 Occupational groups of the Civil Services.Let alone comparing it with the DMG.
By teaching a lesson to DMG,we are only going to destroy a service that stands for the federation,and lose the best brain that has been inducted through such a time consuming and arduous process.When you have the best and the fittest available for a job,why fit in the 'second best'.Regarding other technical issues,I think brother Devoultion Geek has explained better. This violation of merit at the hands of high ups is why Pakistan finds itself in such a position today.I mean making someone who has risen from a clerical position to a DCO when you have the best and deserving man for the job is plainly...what should I say..Be blessed everyone.This discussion is never ending.If the same people had come through CSS and DMG,they wouldn't be so vehemently advocating PCS. Thanx anyways devolution geek.You are one of the few who can see and speak sense.Bravo.And I totally agree to your suggestion of bringing back the CSP cadre,alongwith this name.It suites
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I shall either find a way,or make one 'Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa' |
#17
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@DEVOLUTION GEEK
AOA Dear member you are wrong. Mr. Ahad Cheema, is in grade 18. he is very junior officer of DMG but working as DCO Lahore(Yes there is merit). This time his name is included in the course for promotion in 19 grade.This course will be started on 5th of September 2011. Please read the news paper The jang, 7-august page no 21 |
#18
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AoA,
I did not say what your were using? I said i am post my last message through my android phone, and typing is hell on phone. Espacially when one has to type a long message. Nevertheless, let us end this discussion. Let best officers serve the country, whether they are from mightly DMG officers ( progeny of Pharaoh of Egypt) or humble, down to earth, poor PMS folks. Personally, bro, i have no intention to join PMS or DMG. I am happy with my current occupation. Allah Nighaban o Nasir
__________________
" None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those, who falsely believe that they are free" Goethe |
#19
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http://www.cssforum.com.pk/css-cadre...tml#post365531 |
#20
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