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  #1  
Old Sunday, August 07, 2011
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Thumbs down Injustice to CSP/DMG officers in Punjab

No less than 11 important districts of Punjab are headed by junior PCS officers (BPS-18) serving as DCOs with no more than 11 years of service experience in some cases. Senior DMG officers in grade 19,20 and even grade 21 are serving under their command all because of the so-called “Merit” policy of PML-N which strives to accommodate its own protégés instead of meritocracy.
Vehari, Fasilabad, Gujranwala and several other important districts are governed by junior PCS officers. In Vehari, one senior DMG officer is serving under a junior PCS officer. In Gujranwala, two grade 20 are serving under a junior grade 18 officer and in Faisalabad, three grade 20 officers and one grade 21 DMG officer in under a junior grade 18 officer. DMG group is the elite group of CSS but in Punjab, this elite service is mauled, molested and abused just to satisfy the thirst of Rai Nasir and his sifarshi tola.
Also, it is pertinent to mention here that no less than twelve CSPs are serving as OSD in Punjab just to accommodate the blue-eyed PCS officers of Shehbaz Sharif. This doesn’t end here as DCO Vehari was posted as DCO directly from AC (Revenue), a grade 17 seat. He remained DCO, in grade 17, for three months until he was promoted to grade 18 out of turn.
This should be an eye opened for the new CSP/DMGs like ALI SB and Hamza Salik etc. DMG should protest against this or else they should hire Rai Nasir as their leader.
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  #2  
Old Sunday, August 07, 2011
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Well in my humble opinion, its time to decentralize the things. its time to give more and more autonomy to provinces. its time to strengthen civil administration. we have seen enough of centralisation and military dictatorship (covert or overt). Its time to give freedom to provinces with least involvement from Islamabad and GHQ. Strengthening the provincial service is seen by me as a progress towards provincial strengthening and autonomy.

Dr. Ali Xaidi
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Old Sunday, August 07, 2011
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Thumbs down What provincial autonomy ?

@ Dr.Ali Xaidi

Yes, provinces should be empowered but provincial autonomy doesn't mean the irregular postings of PCS and DMG officers. This is a clear injustice and a slap on the face of meritocracy.*
Actually DMG and PSP are both APUG services that means they are common to both the provinces and the federation. PSP and DMG officers once posted in the provinces come under the full jurisdiction of the concerned provincial governments. It is unfair to tag DMG as a federal service only.*
On the other hand, if you say that PCS should be empowered by posting junior officers over senior PCS and DMG ones, then what will be the fate of those two to three hundred senior officers, grade 19 and above, who are still waiting to be appointed as DCOs?
*I have only deducted one thing form your post that only junior PCS officers are eligible to be posted as DCOs, superseding the senior ones, thanks to provincial autonomy ? I am sorry to say but no sane person could endorse this viewpoint other than you.*
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Old Monday, August 08, 2011
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Default Reforms in Bureaucracy

Hi All,

Violation of merit is obnoxious whether it is made in posting of DMG or PCS officers. It is rarely done for PCS officers but in most of the situations such incidents take place for the DMG officers.

In fact it is not only time for decentralization but also for reforms in bureaucracy. Not only provinces services should be given more importance but also other steps should be taken.

In my opinion there is no need to maintain DMG cadre as it is against the spirit of the provincial autonomy. Its officers have a pseudo kind of superiority complex and always call themselves an elite group. Besides this psychological problem, the class has been paralyzing the whole society since birth of Pakistan.

Instead of that all recruitment for the civil services should be made at provincial levels. The federal government can take officers from the provincial services, on merit base, to work in the center. It can harmonize the society better.

Furthermore, there is strong need to bring in new blood at every stage as is being done in Malaysia, Singapore and many other countries. Besides promotions the lateral entries should be made at each and every grade from 18 onward through Public Service Commission. It shall lead the country towards new public management.

I know this proposal will be painful for the both PCS and DMG people but it is where the world is leading now to.
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Old Monday, August 08, 2011
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Well, quite unfortunate to hear this. DMG Cadre needs to be there. As for the so called provincial autonomy, it is ok but by no means a Junior PMS officer should supercede his senior counterparts or a senior DMG fellow.

I personally believe that PMS officers should have there right but they should report to the DMG officer in federation. e.g. In Ministry of Education, all Provincial Secretaries (PMS Officers) should coordinate with Federal Secretary (a DMG officer) and the Federal Secretary should be the authority to chalk out plans, make sure that they get implemented and grant budgets etc.

I hope I am able to communicate my views .
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Old Monday, August 08, 2011
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Angry Senior DMG officers? Must be kidding

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVOLUTION GEEK View Post
@ Dr.Ali Xaidi

Yes, provinces should be empowered but provincial autonomy doesn't mean the irregular postings of PCS and DMG officers. This is a clear injustice and a slap on the face of meritocracy.*
Actually DMG and PSP are both APUG services that means they are common to both the provinces and the federation. PSP and DMG officers once posted in the provinces come under the full jurisdiction of the concerned provincial governments. It is unfair to tag DMG as a federal service only.*
On the other hand, if you say that PCS should be empowered by posting junior officers over senior PCS and DMG ones, then what will be the fate of those two to three hundred senior officers, grade 19 and above, who are still waiting to be appointed as DCOs?
*I have only deducted one thing form your post that only junior PCS officers are eligible to be posted as DCOs, superseding the senior ones, thanks to provincial autonomy ? I am sorry to say but no sane person could endorse this viewpoint other than you.*
AoA,
You know, what seniority mean? DCO Sialkot Mujahid Sherdil is a senior officer? also DCO Lahore, Ahad Khan Cheema is senior officer? And i can name many more officers who had been given unprecedented promotions, only because they belonged to mighty APUG (DMG and PSP ). On the contrary , number of PCS officers, who have been deprived of their due right of promotion is in thousands.
Personally i have not meet Sherdil, nor Ahad Cheema, so i can not give any opinion about their personalities. But, i know the reason, behind their unprecedented fast promotions, and that is , Mujahid Sherdil is son of formar Cheif Secretary of Punjab, A.Z.K Sherdil, and Ahad Khan Cheema is son in law of another Chief Secretary, Mr. Javed Mehmood.
Also, brother of Mujahid, Khalid Sherdil is active members of CSP/DMG association ( federal chapter).
Yaar, logon ko gumrah na karo.

Allah Nighaban o Nasir
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Old Monday, August 08, 2011
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@ aminshah101

Why is it unfortunate?

If you abolish income tax group, there would be serious problems. If you abolish customs group, there would be serious problems. If you abolish foreign services, there can be no alternate.

However, if you abolish DMG group what unfortunate thing is going to happen?

And as far as your views on the reporting of PMS officers are concerned, it is misconception on a number of issues. First all provincial secretaries are not secretaries (in fact a few of them are on some unimportant positions).

Second, even if it happens how a federal secretary can judge performance of a provincial secretary? This kind of system has never worked and can never work. It does not even exist in Pakistan and shall be a serious violation of the Constitution of Pakistan.

I shall suggest that instead of this kind of reporting, the government should devise some performance indicators for all officers in all cadres.

I also suggest that instead of following the seniority lists, the promotions should be made on merit, through Public Service Commission or the like independent institution which does not have officers from any of the groups; PCS officers or DMG officers.
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Old Monday, August 08, 2011
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Thumbs down The Truth speaks for itself

Quote:
AoA,
You know, what seniority mean? DCO Sialkot Mujahid Sherdil is a senior officer? Also DCO Lahore, Ahad Khan Cheema is senior officer? And i can name many more officers who had been given unprecedented promotions, only because they belonged to mighty APUG (DMG and PSP ). On the contrary , number of PCS officers, who have been deprived of their due right of promotion is in thousands.
Personally i have not meet Sherdil, nor Ahad Cheema, so i can not give any opinion about their personalities. But, i know the reason, behind their unprecedented fast promotions, and that is , Mujahid Sherdil is son of formar Cheif Secretary of Punjab, A.Z.K Sherdil, and Ahad Khan Cheema is son in law of another Chief Secretary, Mr. Javed Mehmood.
Also, brother of Mujahid, Khalid Sherdil is active members of CSP/DMG association ( federal chapter).
Yaar, logon ko gumrah na karo.

Allah Nighaban o Nasir
@Ali Randhawa

Yes! I know about seniority much more than most of the people around here in this forum because I am an ex-provincial public servant and I have worked with several DMG and PCS officers during my contractual tenure that ended in November 2010. Let me tell you one thing plainly, almost all the DCOs belonging to PCS are junior officers that are ruling over their senior counterparts and the DMG ones and unfortunately, all the DCOs are appointed on political considerations. No one is given exceptional promotions just on the basis of his being in DMG or PSP. My cousin, a grade 19 DMG officer, is still not any DCOship even when his junior PCS ones like the one posted as DCOs Vehari has far lesser service tenure.
As far as Mujahid Sherdil is concerned, he is not appointed as DCO on the basis of DMG. His late father, Mr.AZK Sherdil who happened to be a very honest person, is a reason behind his appointment. Don’t forget that Nasr-ullah Khan Laghari (PCS) is junior to Mujahid Sherdil in service but he is now the DCO of Vehari. If you talk about Ahad Cheema, then let me clear you one thing that I know him personally and he is a very intelligent and dedicated person. He is in grade 19 (moving to grade 20 soon) and perhaps senior to almost 10 to 11 PCS DCOs in service. So in short, these plum posts are not given on merit but on personal and political preferences and the intelligent DMG officers are the one who are in loss here.
There is no match between DMG and PCS officers as no less than 60% of PCS officers are the promote from Naib-Tehsilds and Stenographers. How can you compare a CSP officer with a Naib-Tehsildar?, it is simply obnoxious and a clear abuse of merit. Had these PCS been so efficient, they would have passed CSS in flying colours and joined DMG as most of these officers failed in CSS before joining PCS. I would like to quote here a very interesting example. One of my colleagues was a PMS Officer, serving as a section officer in Punjab Secretariat then, who was unable to pronounce “officer” correctly. He used to say, “afficer”. Now you understand the capabilities of these people. I am not here to demoralize anyone and perhaps if you ask me personally then I would favour PCS officers because I have many of them as my friends but still truth is truth. I don’t want to misguide anyone. Apart from this, I want to tell you a secret that almost 10 to 15 seats of PMS are always filled with the political candidates. Same is going to be happening now. I think I have answered many of your queries.
If you ask me personally, then I would say that government should abolish both the PMS & DMG groups by restoring the erstwhile Civil Service of Pakistan in which 80% seats were given to DMGs (Direct Recruitment) and 20% seats were given to the able provincial civil servants selected through public service commission after grade 19 to be inducted to grade 20 as CSPs. This system is still in force in many countries under the name of IAS, BCS, NCS etc.
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Last edited by DEVOLUTION GEEK; Monday, August 08, 2011 at 10:52 PM.
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@ DEVOLUTION GEEK

After reading your last post, I am also convinced that you don't know what seniority is. It is different for the both DMG and PMS. You can't even compare that.

If you say seniority means the stay in service from the day of posting, then most of the senior PCS officers are working under their Junior DMG officers. I can bet on it.

If you say that seniority means grades then most of the PCS officers have stay in grade 17 for around 18-20 years while their counterparts in DMG achieve grade 20 meanwhile. It is deliberately planned and unjustly implemented. I can bet on this too.

What do you mean by seniority then?

As far as abolishing of DMG and PCS groups is concerned, I totally disagree. If you abolish DMG there can be no problem for the administration. However, if the both groups are abolished then there is no alternate to replace PCS cadre.

In fact DMG should be abolished and the federal government can take officers from PCS to work on deputation in the center.
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Old Tuesday, August 09, 2011
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@Devolution Greek

Can you name the districts headed by PCS officers?

@Huzaifa

Totally agreed to yoo. PCS officers can never do injustice to DMGs rather reverse is the case.DMG officers deliberately stops promotions of PCS officers.There are many instances where a Senior PCS Officer who wrote ACR of a DMG was latter working under the same DMG officer after few years.

Some of learned members have maligned PCS officers by calling them incompetent , and low caliber. Its unjust and unfair. I am neither a PCS officer nor DMG.But i share few facts that are based on reality.

1-I know as many as two PMS Officers who qualified CSS in 2009 but did nt join

1-Mr Husnain Khalid Merit No 204 allocated in IG(Currently posted as SJM Lahore)
2- Mr Zaigham Nawaz Merit No 79 Allocated in IRS (currently posted as DMO Faislaabad)

One thing more , many of qualified CSPs of CE2008 flunked in PMS Examination.

The revised syllabus and exam stanadard of PMS is no less tough than CSS if not more.Besides, the pass percentage in PMS exam is much low.

I dont say that PMS is superior to DMG but PCS officers must be treated at par with them.On one hand a DMG is promoted in 18 even before 5 years on acting charge basis whereas a PCS officers has to wait for 12-16 years for one step promotion.If DMGs have better exposure and training opportunities , its none of the fault of PMS officers. Many PMS officers have to wait for promotions because of non-completion of Courses conducted by National School of Management (foremerly NIPA). Like wise, many promotions cases of PMS officers are held in abeyance for years on account of delays in ACR.These ACR are kept pending by DMGs who countersign these ACR.

Its gross injustice by the satte to PMS officers and should be stopped sooner than latter.
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