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ikramullahkhan Monday, June 11, 2012 05:34 PM

Please qualifiers of css 2011 dont join PAAS
 
Assalamulaikum

i am a 34 commoner , currently working as Deputy director in audit
guys 6 years down the road and i have no future
PAAS group is now the most pathetic occupational group
In 2010 SC up graded audit officers , AAOs and senior audit officers to grade 18 , 17 and 16 and also they have now antedated seniority in their respective grades
Now all my subordinate audit officers are senior to me as i earned grade 18 this year , while my once subordinates are in grade 18 since 2005. All these up graded officials have gone into the court for their promotions and as result our grade 19 DPCs are stopped. If they win there will be more than 1000 officers above even the 26 common. we have practically no authority over any one. No body is legally bound to report to us and despite our clamoring our department is not heeded towards correcting the most absurd and irrational administrative set up.
the departmental officers have challenged the seniority of grade 19 PAAS officers
In districts we are faced by another threat. that is provinicialization of accounts as you can see the ad by PPSC for treasury officers
PAAS is indeed a dying cadre . Many of our grade 20 and 21 posts ie CFAO and DAG are the most redundant and useless posts in government machinery you can imagine. Moreover the whole district audit set up is under jeopardy, meaning grade 19 post will be terminated , thus limiting our future prospects very bleak.
despite me a CSP , i have no official residence , no allowance as remuneration and now i have no authority or superiority over even the audit officers.
The departmental cadre are well connected , politically influential and also backed by our senior PAAS officers. ( since 2005 , they have recruited many of their relatives in departmental cadres , now grade 18 AOs )
Also the annihilation of PAAS will pave the way for finance to manage their own accounts.
our deputations in provincial cadres are also being challenged . so please dont entangled your self in this mess.
Opt for other careers .
I invite other PAAS officers to dilute upon the topic and make every aspirant well aware of problem he would face by joining PAAS

ghulammujtaba86 Monday, June 11, 2012 05:48 PM

[QUOTE=ikramullahkhan;440309]Assalamulaikum

i am a 34 commoner , currently working as Deputy director in audit
guys 6 years down the road and i have no future
PAAS group is now the most pathetic occupational group
[COLOR="Blue"]In 2010 SC up graded audit officers , AAOs and senior audit officers to grade 18 , 17 and 16 and also they have now antedated seniority in their respective grades[/COLOR]
Now all my subordinate audit officers are senior to me as i earned grade 18 this year , while my once subordinates are in grade 18 since 2005. All these up graded officials have gone into the court for their promotions and as result our grade 19 DPCs are stopped. If they win there will be more than 1000 officers above even the 26 common. we have practically no authority over any one. No body is legally bound to report to us and despite our clamoring our department is not heeded towards correcting the most absurd and irrational administrative set up.
the departmental officers have challenged the seniority of grade 19 PAAS officers
In districts we are faced by another threat. that is provinicialization of accounts as you can see the ad by PPSC for treasury officers
PAAS is indeed a dying cadre . Many of our grade 20 and 21 posts ie CFAO and DAG are the most redundant and useless posts in government machinery you can imagine. Moreover the whole district audit set up is under jeopardy, meaning grade 19 post will be terminated , thus limiting our future prospects very bleak.
despite me a CSP , i have no official residence , no allowance as remuneration and now i have no authority or superiority over even the audit officers.
The departmental cadre are well connected , politically influential and also backed by our senior PAAS officers. ( since 2005 , they have recruited many of their relatives in departmental cadres , now grade 18 AOs )
Also the annihilation of PAAS will pave the way for finance to manage their own accounts.
our deputations in provincial cadres are also being challenged . so please dont entangled your self in this mess.
Opt for other careers .
I invite other PAAS officers to dilute upon the topic and make every aspirant well aware of problem he would face by joining PAAS[/QUOTE]

Actually upgrading these low grade employees SC has paved the pay for corruption. These low grade employees are opportunist and selfish and above all our senior officers help and protect them for their own corrupt causes.

soloflyer Monday, June 11, 2012 06:55 PM

perhaps Sir nauman of 34th common can also shed some light on the situation that you have shown. it is really a disturbing picture for all the qualifiers , since some of them will be posted in PAAS .

rose_pak Monday, June 11, 2012 07:15 PM

what I have heard about PAAS is cent percent contrary to what Ikramullahkhan has said. One of my teacher is a PAAS officer from CE 2007. 4 years down the road, now he is in grade 18.

According to him, PAAS is one of the best departments to work for. I says achievements of an officer are not due to its group rather due to his dedication and work. If somebody really works hard, he will get its reward.

I think everyone, no matter from PAAS, IRS, Customs, Railways, Postal etc or DMG, gets a fair chance to become grade 22 officer. what is needed, his professional skills and dedication.

But am confused after reading Ikramullah and wonder whom to believe?????

RabiaAfzal Monday, June 11, 2012 07:29 PM

sir apni marzi se koi audit and account mein nahin ata. jin candidates ke mkskam ate hain unhe majbooran PAAS join karna prta hai. what other option do they have? sab ko pata hai ke upper wale groups ache hai aur service strucre behtar hai par agar mks na ae acheto kiya ho sakta hai.

ikramullahkhan Monday, June 11, 2012 10:49 PM

[QUOTE=RabiaAfzal;440349]sir apni marzi se koi audit and account mein nahin ata. jin candidates ke mkskam ate hain unhe majbooran PAAS join karna prta hai. what other option do they have? sab ko pata hai ke upper wale groups ache hai aur service strucre behtar hai par agar mks na ae acheto kiya ho sakta hai.[/QUOTE]

Maam i just miss PAS/ DMG by few marks . PAAS is still considered to be a very prestigious group. DAO is amongst the powerful four in district.
Our departmental cadre are holding DAO slots , foreign postings on our disposal.
I am just creating awareness that since 2010 and 2011 , our whole cadre is being targeted by Finance division and departmental cadres.
they have huge finances and we are marginalized because we dont have plenty of illegal money.
we are not DMG and we have serious problems with our seniors. They want us out and their fav Departmental cadres in for corruption and nepotism

i am just warning the fresh entrants not to entangled them selves in the mess we are in because frankly as our departmental cadres are supported by AGP , we are unaware what would become of us.
Just one thing to elaborate my dear , DAGP is now the only department where the fourth tier is now junior in entry to grade to fifth tier
our senior have up graded more than 1500 AOs against sanctioned 700 odd departmental cadre slots and now they are supporting them in courts to become grade 19 , making them qualified to become APUGs .
about CFAO and DAG , ask any senior civil servants , no body is giving them any power as no body wants independence of audit. so seriously all these posts are just sham
please let the dust get settled and than join PAAS
if any body is allocated PAAS he must go to writ petition in HC to save his attempt. Just ask the FPSC and DAGP of the position they are hiring you for ie as AO or AAO and also ask about the service structure ensured if the on going litigations in FST ( ie IDC Vs Dc) are won by Departmental officers

intelligentgal Monday, June 11, 2012 11:21 PM

[QUOTE=ikramullahkhan;440419]Maam i just miss PAS/ DMG by few marks . PAAS is still considered to be a very prestigious group. DAO is amongst the powerful four in district.
Our departmental cadre are holding DAO slots , foreign postings on our disposal.
I am just creating awareness that since 2010 and 2011 , our whole cadre is being targeted by Finance division and departmental cadres.
they have huge finances and we are marginalized because we dont have plenty of illegal money.
we are not DMG and we have serious problems with our seniors. They want us out and their fav Departmental cadres in for corruption and nepotism

i am just warning the fresh entrants not to entangled them selves in the mess we are in because frankly as our departmental cadres are supported by AGP , we are unaware what would become of us.
Just one thing to elaborate my dear , DAGP is now the only department where the fourth tier is now junior in entry to grade to fifth tier
our senior have up graded more than 1500 AOs against sanctioned 700 odd departmental cadre slots and now they are supporting them in courts to become grade 19 , making them qualified to become APUGs .
about CFAO and DAG , ask any senior civil servants , no body is giving them any power as no body wants independence of audit. so seriously all these posts are just sham
please let the dust get settled and than join PAAS
if any body is allocated PAAS he must go to writ petition in HC to save his attempt. Just ask the FPSC and DAGP of the position they are hiring you for ie as AO or AAO and also ask about the service structure ensured if the on going litigations in FST ( ie IDC Vs Dc) are won by Departmental officers[/QUOTE]

sir what do you suggest then, if someone gets PAAS, is there any way to change the department? as people from Sindh (U) would be having many vacancies left in other departments. can they apply for change of service group after announcement of allocation?

rose_pak Tuesday, June 12, 2012 08:22 AM

[QUOTE=intelligentgal;440435]sir what do you suggest then, if someone gets PAAS, is there any way to change the department? as people from Sindh (U) would be having many vacancies left in other departments. can they apply for change of service group after announcement of allocation?[/QUOTE]

I think change of service group after announcement of result (in fact after interview) is not possible. Simply Impossible, as per FPSC rules written on the preference form we submitted.

But don't worry, it is the matter of posting. If you are posted to a good city, the things may be different. It is a fact that almost every department is going through transformation and we do not know that after 10 years what the situation would be. For example people are asking for reforms in Railways, DMG, Police etc. So, in the beginning of one's career it is difficult to see how the situation would be after 10/20 years. Same thing happened during Musharraf era when DMG officer went to litigation against Devolution Plan and asked FPSC to re-allocate them. The demand did have some sense, but SC gave its verdict in favour of FPSC by saying that changes in service structure does not make an officer eligible to change the service group.

So, instead of being disappointed, I think you should visit two or three PAAS officers in your area and discuss with them. Than you can have pretty good idea of the service.

sarfaraz shami Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:46 AM

That is really despicable situation. I request Waseem Riaz Khan & other senior PAAS officers to please guide us.

ikramullahkhan Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:17 PM

[QUOTE=sarfaraz shami;440531]That is really despicable situation. I request Waseem Riaz Khan & other senior PAAS officers to please guide us.[/QUOTE]

Our group is being targeted as it is seen a rival group by many departments , just a year ago , we have two chief secretaries from PAAS and now we are lingering for survival having an AGP who is Canadian national and all his family residing in Canada. In no other country you would find an auditor general having dual
If anyone is allocated PAAS , he must go to court and ask FPSC and DAGP about the service structure they are offering. It is concealment of facts . We had induction of earlier grade 16 AAO from FPSC , but when Court (Or the department rather) had given departmental cadre antedated seniority to dc we have now two induction in grade 17 by FPSC . FPSC is well aware of the situation , but my dear fellows all is swept under the carpet as the destruction of PAAS will favour many interest groups in establishment . It will pave the way for all institutions to get themselves free of any accountability and mange their own accounts and conceal misappropriation under the hood of doing their own preaudit.
A group which had produced the earlier finance secretaries , ministers and was instrumental in making institutions like state bank , planning commission , five year plans , is now fighting for its survival
Our group manages the accounts of military , navy and air force and perform audit as well. The recruitment to this group was always made by CSS even before 1973
If any body has any doubts about the importance of this group go and surf for accounts and audit in other countries
However in Pakistan finance is maintaining accounts unconstitutionally. Against all prudence we have two set ups , one completely beyond the ambit of Auditor general of Pakistan
If departmental cadre wins, all government machinary would have auditors well suited for the culture of governance. There are matriculate grade 16 and FA/FSC grade 18 officers
Never recruited on merit , they know the ways promtions is earned in Pakistan.
Hush money and black mailing.

sarfaraz shami Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:29 PM

Dear Sir

What are the opportunities for persons who opt foreign postings ?

It is easy to get or political backing is required.

courageneverdies Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:39 PM

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440314]Actually upgrading these low grade employees SC has paved the pay for corruption. These low grade employees are opportunist and selfish and above all our senior officers help and protect them for their own corrupt causes.[/QUOTE]

I strongly disagree with your statement. How can you say these up-gradations have paved way for corruption? Who are you to judge and what is the credibility of your "assumption"? Corruption is mostly done by those who have authority. These BS 14, 15 and even 16 officials don't have the authority. Even if places they are involved in corruption than its merely because of the "Asheerbaad" of the high ups.

I don't know about you, but I have been in this system for almost 5 years. I have worked with Officers of PAAS and DMG, I know how much honest these high ups are. I know an officer, a female officer of PAAS, who was in BS-20. I worked with her for almost 7 months. I know how much corrupt she was. Quoting just one incident, she for her own sake and to be on a foreign visit, put her name in the list of "Scientific Experts" who were supposed to visit Turkey. She took an advance of Rs.650,000/- from AGPR and still hasn't submitted the adjustment. All by her own links. And this is just one incident. Now she holds a bigger position at the AGP and is ready to be promoted in BS-21. She even avoided an Audit Para just by moving some strings. Our Secretary was so fed up with her corruption and negative mentality that he had to personally visit the AGP to get her posted elsewhere.

You think these low scale officials should retire in the same scales they are inducted in? How many promotional opportunities do they have? Literally none. Not these low paid, low scale officials, but these high ups that are opportunists, corrupt and selfish. You should go to SC too if you think you are being wronged. Its doors are open for all.

Regards

sanguine hope Tuesday, June 12, 2012 01:25 PM

[QUOTE=courageneverdies;440551]I strongly disagree with your statement. How can you say these up-gradations have paved way for corruption? Who are you to judge and what is the credibility of your "assumption"? Corruption is mostly done by those who have authority. These BS 14, 15 and even 16 officials don't have the authority. Even if places they are involved in corruption than its merely because of the "Asheerbaad" of the high ups.

I don't know about you, but I have been in this system for almost 5 years. I have worked with Officers of PAAS and DMG, I know how much honest these high ups are. I know an officer, a female officer of PAAS, who was in BS-20. I worked with her for almost 7 months. I know how much corrupt she was. Quoting just one incident, she for her own sake and to be on a foreign visit, put her name in the list of "Scientific Experts" who were supposed to visit Turkey. She took an advance of Rs.650,000/- from AGPR and still hasn't submitted the adjustment. All by her own links. And this is just one incident. Now she holds a bigger position at the AGP and is ready to be promoted in BS-21. She even avoided an Audit Para just by moving some strings. Our Secretary was so fed up with her corruption and negative mentality that he had to personally visit the AGP to get her posted elsewhere.

You think these low scale officials should retire in the same scales they are inducted in? How many promotional opportunities do they have? Literally none. Not these low paid, low scale officials, but these high ups that are opportunists, corrupt and selfish. You should go to SC too if you think you are being wronged. Its doors are open for all.

Regards[/QUOTE]

:0
You may be mistaken. How can a woman be corrupt? Men are more intersted in corruption. Plz confirm the news.:thinking

sarfaraz shami Tuesday, June 12, 2012 01:27 PM

[QUOTE=sanguine hope;440569]:0
You may be mistaken. How can a woman be corrupt? Men are more intersted in corruption. Plz confirm the news.:thinking[/QUOTE]
Hahahahhahhahahah. Why women can't be corrupt.

ghulammujtaba86 Tuesday, June 12, 2012 01:29 PM

[QUOTE=courageneverdies;440551]I strongly disagree with your statement. How can you say these up-gradations have paved way for corruption? Who are you to judge and what is the credibility of your "assumption"? Corruption is mostly done by those who have authority. These BS 14, 15 and even 16 officials don't have the authority. Even if places they are involved in corruption than its merely because of the "Asheerbaad" of the high ups.

I don't know about you, but I have been in this system for almost 5 years. I have worked with Officers of PAAS and DMG, I know how much honest these high ups are. I know an officer, a female officer of PAAS, who was in BS-20. I worked with her for almost 7 months. I know how much corrupt she was. Quoting just one incident, she for her own sake and to be on a foreign visit, put her name in the list of "Scientific Experts" who were supposed to visit Turkey. She took an advance of Rs.650,000/- from AGPR and still hasn't submitted the adjustment. All by her own links. And this is just one incident. Now she holds a bigger position at the AGP and is ready to be promoted in BS-21. She even avoided an Audit Para just by moving some strings. Our Secretary was so fed up with her corruption and negative mentality that he had to personally visit the AGP to get her posted elsewhere.

You think these low scale officials should retire in the same scales they are inducted in? How many promotional opportunities do they have? Literally none. Not these low paid, low scale officials, but these high ups that are opportunists, corrupt and selfish. You should go to SC too if you think you are being wronged. Its doors are open for all.

Regards[/QUOTE]

I have been working for Federal Government last two year and described what i have faced in my department during work not by listening from here and there and put it over. In fact A PAAS Grade 18 officer is saying do not join this group WHY? If these LOW-GRADE employees Bs-14, 15 ,16 are so talented and honest then why they don't come in competition openly. Let me tell you one thing in my office a guy was appointed by his relative as LDC and after 6 year service he gave exam of Account which has two parts and only few books he passed part one and got grade 17 while part two is also mandatory but he never passed it how can he be comparable to PAAS CSS grade 17 officer?

One more thing low mentality always help low grade employees as they flattered to our senior bosses for their personal benefits. I did not advocated honest of all officers, if they are good then low-grade employees have no powers.

courageneverdies Tuesday, June 12, 2012 02:01 PM

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440571]In fact A PAAS Grade 18 officer is saying do not join this group WHY?[/QUOTE]

I don't have problem with what he says. My problem is with what you said, your over-generalization.

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440571]If these LOW-GRADE employees Bs-14, 15 ,16 are so talented and honest then why they don't come in competition openly.[/QUOTE]

Had they got the opportunities, the education, the background that most of the CSPs have, they must have 'Competed' openly. Not everyone is lucky. Further, if your analogy is true then it means you should also not complain for not being equally treated as other groups because if you were so talented and befitting, you would have been allocated in other top groups like PSP or DMG. So if you are not talented enough to go for that group than accept what you have been given.

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440571]Let me tell you one thing in my office a guy was appointed by his relative as LDC and after 6 year service he gave exam of Account which has two parts and only few books he passed part one and got grade 17 while part two is also mandatory but he never passed it how can he be comparable to PAAS CSS grade 17 officer?[/QUOTE]

Let me tell you one thing, who is the appointing authority of LDC? A grade 20 officer. Why did he appointed him against merit? And what is CSS, isn't it too reading a few books? Secondly, it is merely your misconception that low graded officers are not talented, I can quote a couple of examples from a better group Police Services where rankers have been given priority over PSP Officers. One in Karachi SSP CID Ch. Aslam and second in Lahore (I forgot his name).

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440571]One more thing low mentality always help low grade employees as they flattered to our senior bosses for their personal benefits. I did not advocated honest of all officers, if they are good then low-grade employees have no powers.[/QUOTE]

Why do you think low grade employees are synonymous to low mentality? To me these high ups are the worst toadies of all. They are flatterers to the Politicians and do so just for their own sake. What potential benefits can a low grade officer ask for against the potential benefits an officer can have? Its always easy to make the low grade officials scapegoat.

AGPR Islamabad and other sub offices are literally paralysed these days because of the strike of these low grade officials. If they were worthless, the system wouldn't have jammed.

[QUOTE=sanguine hope;440571]You may be mistaken. How can a woman be corrupt? Men are more intersted in corruption. Plz confirm the news.[/QUOTE]

Its not a news. It happened before my eyes. As I already said, I was working with her. Most corrupt officer I have ever seen and I have seen many officers.

Regards

Taimoor Gondal Tuesday, June 12, 2012 02:21 PM

Currently PPSC has announced 97 posts of Deputy District Account Officer (BS- 17)

Will it have any effect on PAAS?

ikramullahkhan Tuesday, June 12, 2012 04:39 PM

[QUOTE=Taimoor Gondal;440585]Currently PPSC has announced 97 posts of Deputy District Account Officer (BS- 17)

Will it have any effect on PAAS?[/QUOTE]

Article: 168 Auditor-General of Pakistan
168. Auditor-General of Pakistan.—(1) There shall be an Auditor-General of Pakistan, who shall be appointed by the President.

(2) Before entering upon office, the Auditor-General shall make before the Chief Justice of Pakistan oath in the form set out in the Third Schedule.

1[(3) The Auditor-General shall, unless he sooner resigns or is removed from office in accordance with clause (5), hold office for a term of four years from the date on which he assumes such office or attains the age of sixty-five years, whichever is earlier.]



2[(3A) The other terms and conditions of service of the Auditor-General shall be determined by Act of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament); and, until so determined, by Order of the President.]

(4) A person who has held office as Auditor-General shall not be eligible for further appointment in the service of Pakistan before the expiration of two years after he has ceased to hold that office.

(5) The Auditor-General shall not be removed from office except in the like manner and on the like grounds as a Judge of the Supreme Court.

(6) At any time, when the office of the Auditor-General is vacant or the Auditor-General is absent or is unable to perform the functions of his office due to any cause, 3[the President may appoint the most senior officer in the Office of the Auditor-General to] act as Auditor-General and perform the functions of that office.


Government of PUNjab illegally is running a parallel set up.
i have no doubts that it is a preparation to segregate the Federation
this whole mess started with TOs
Against CGA ordinance and constitution of Pakistan they are having Chief treasury inspector who do not report to Auditor general. All major districts in Punjab are pre-audited by finance or by the executive it self
PAAS or other structure , the move to make another parallel structure as TAAS will end in independent state of Punjab
the model is replicated in other provinces too . It means an end of PAAS in districts
_________________________________________________________________

ikramullahkhan Tuesday, June 12, 2012 04:42 PM

[QUOTE=ikramullahkhan;440625]Article: 168 Auditor-General of Pakistan
168. Auditor-General of Pakistan.—(1) There shall be an Auditor-General of Pakistan, who shall be appointed by the President.

(2) Before entering upon office, the Auditor-General shall make before the Chief Justice of Pakistan oath in the form set out in the Third Schedule.

1[(3) The Auditor-General shall, unless he sooner resigns or is removed from office in accordance with clause (5), hold office for a term of four years from the date on which he assumes such office or attains the age of sixty-five years, whichever is earlier.]



2[(3A) The other terms and conditions of service of the Auditor-General shall be determined by Act of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament); and, until so determined, by Order of the President.]

(4) A person who has held office as Auditor-General shall not be eligible for further appointment in the service of Pakistan before the expiration of two years after he has ceased to hold that office.

(5) The Auditor-General shall not be removed from office except in the like manner and on the like grounds as a Judge of the Supreme Court.

(6) At any time, when the office of the Auditor-General is vacant or the Auditor-General is absent or is unable to perform the functions of his office due to any cause, 3[the President may appoint the most senior officer in the Office of the Auditor-General to] act as Auditor-General and perform the functions of that office.Article: 169 Functions and powers of Auditor-General.


169. Functions and powers of Auditor-General.-The Auditor -General shall, in relation to:-

(a) the accounts of the Federation and of the Provinces; and

(b) the accounts of any authority or body established by the Federation or a Province, perform such functions and exercise such powers as may be determined by or under Act of 1[Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament)] and, until so determined, by Order of the President.
_________________________________________________________________[/QUOTE]
Government of PUNjab illegally is running a parallel set up.
i have no doubts that it is a preparation to segregate the Federation
this whole mess started with TOs
Against CGA ordinance and constitution of Pakistan they are having Chief treasury inspector who do not report to Auditor general. All major districts in Punjab are pre-audited by finance or by the executive it self
PAAS or other structure , the move to make another parallel structure as TAAS will end in independent state of Punjab
the model is replicated in other provinces too . It means an end of PAAS in districts

ghulammujtaba86 Tuesday, June 12, 2012 06:06 PM

[QUOTE=courageneverdies;440582]I don't have problem with what he says. My problem is with what you said, your over-generalization.[/QUOTE]

I am not over-generalizing but fact is fact and it is bitter.



[QUOTE=courageneverdies;440582]Had they got the opportunities, the education, the background that most of the CSPs have, they must have 'Competed' openly. Not everyone is lucky. Further, if your analogy is true then it means you should also not complain for not being equally treated as other groups because if you were so talented and befitting, you would have been allocated in other top groups like PSP or DMG. So if you are not talented enough to go for that group than accept what you have been given.[/QUOTE]

Everyone got opportunities they are not talented but they could not compete in the race so they are in low grades. if they are good they must be professional like doctors, engineers managers etc. Actually they are using back channel to reach a position. Secondly CSS do not required any professional degree but simple BA and BA can be done privately. I did not ask you for a piece of advice where i should go.


[QUOTE=courageneverdies;440582]Let me tell you one thing, who is the appointing authority of LDC? A grade 20 officer. Why did he appointed him against merit? [COLOR="Blue"]And what is CSS, isn't it too reading a few books[/COLOR]? Secondly, it is merely your misconception that low graded officers are not talented, I can quote a couple of examples from a better group Police Services where rankers have been given priority over PSP Officers. One in Karachi SSP CID Ch. Aslam and second in Lahore (I forgot his name).[/QUOTE]

Competent authority is Secretary not a grade 20 officer for appointing LDC.
IF CSS is also about reading few tou ap bhi kr lo.
Every one knows the honesty of Ch Aslam SSP CID. From where he Build his luxury home in DHA as an honest man can't afford to buy a plot within salary .You are passing contradicting statements.



[QUOTE=courageneverdies;440582]Why do you think low grade employees are synonymous to low mentality? To me these high ups are the worst toadies of all. They are flatterers to the Politicians and do so just for their own sake. What potential benefits can a low grade officer ask for against the potential benefits an officer can have? Its always easy to make the low grade officials scapegoat.

[COLOR="Blue"]AGPR Islamabad and other sub offices are literally paralysed these days because of the strike of these low grade officials[/COLOR]. If they were worthless, the system wouldn't have jammed. [/QUOTE]

This show their mentality

courageneverdies Tuesday, June 12, 2012 06:32 PM

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440656]I am not over-generalizing but fact is fact and it is bitter.[/QUOTE]

You need to revisit your own posts again and also look for a definition of Over-Generalization.

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440656]Everyone got opportunities they are not talented but they could not compete in the race so they are in low grades. if they are good they must be professional like doctors, engineers managers etc. Actually they are using back channel to reach a position. Secondly CSS do not required any professional degree but simple BA and BA can be done privately. I did not ask you for a piece of advice where i should go.[/QUOTE]

If everyone had opportunities than there should not have been any quota system. Are you a doctor? Engineer? If not then, following you own analogy, you are also incompetent. Requirement of CSS is BA, how many BAs are CSPs? As far as I see, those candidates who have educational background from Foreign Institutes or at least from notable and elite institutes of Pakistan get positions in CSS. I am not advising you nor I am interested in.

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440656]Competent authority is Secretary not a grade 20 officer for appointing LDC. [/QUOTE]

You need to study about Departmental Selection Board and further Delegation of Powers of appointing of non-gazzetted officials. Secretary doesn't sit in a DSC to interview candidates of LDC, UDC or Assistants. For BS 1-4 Deputy Secretary is appointing authority, BS 5-14 Joint Secretary is appointing authority. Secretary only signs the Minutes of the Committee. The real decision rests with the Chairman, DSC.

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440656]Every one knows the honesty of Ch Aslam SSP CID. From where he Build his luxury home in DHA as an honest man can't afford to buy a plot within salary .You are passing contradicting statements. [/QUOTE]

Honest or dishonest, he is the one Govt. relies on to complete the tasks. I am talking about his competence not about his being honest or not. Ironically, DHAs at all cities of Pakistan are full of these so called Honest Bureaucrats.

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440656]This show their mentality[/QUOTE]

When Doctors go on strike, they also are of low mentality?

ghulammujtaba86 Tuesday, June 12, 2012 06:56 PM

[QUOTE=courageneverdies;440666]You need to revisit your own posts again and also look for a definition of Over-Generalization.



If everyone had opportunities than there should not have been any quota system. [COLOR="Blue"]Are you a doctor? Engineer? If not then, following you own analogy, you are also incompetent[/COLOR]. Requirement of CSS is BA, how many BAs are CSPs? As far as I see, those candidates who have educational background from Foreign Institutes or at least from notable and elite institutes of Pakistan get positions in CSS. I am not advising you nor I am interested in.[/QUOTE]

So you agreed with my analogy, if you are not a doctor engineer then you are incompetent. See my profile you will come to know i am competent as you said.


[QUOTE=courageneverdies;440666]Honest or dishonest, he is the one Govt. relies on to complete the tasks. I am talking about his competence not about his being honest or not. Ironically, DHAs at all cities of Pakistan are full of these so called Honest Bureaucrats.
When Doctors go on strike, they also are of low mentality?[/QUOTE]

Its mean more corrupt people must be hired to do the job and only thing that is important is Competency it does not matter whether he is honest or not. :clap
I am not advocating Bureaucrats. All corrupt and incompetent must be dealt with iron hands as corruption is root cause of our bad governance.

courageneverdies Tuesday, June 12, 2012 07:10 PM

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440672]So you agreed with my analogy, if you are not a doctor engineer then you are incompetent. See my profile you will come to know i am competent as you said.[/QUOTE]

What part of my argument made you think I agreed to your analogy? I am amazed you think that anyone except a Doctor or Engineer is incompetent.

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440672]Its mean more corrupt people must be hired to do the job and only thing that is important is Competency it does not matter whether he is honest or not. :clap[/QUOTE]

Corrupt high ups would most obviously hire corrupt people. At least he is doing his job.

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440672]I am not advocating Bureaucrats. All corrupt and incompetent must be dealt with iron hands as corruption is root cause of our bad governance.[/QUOTE]

What else have you been doing in the previous posts? The least of it happens to be you advocating these Bureaucrats and degrading the lower grade staff.

Try to think just once, without these lower grade staff can you run your office for one day? Without class 4 employees, who clean your mess everyday, you won't be able to sit in your seats. Officers like yourself are not able to drink a glass of water on their own and call your Peon or NQ to bring it for you. Its the lower grade staff that maintains the record for you as when you get bashing from the high ups to bring a certain record, you come and ask them to quickly bring this or that file to avoid further scolding. In modern, advanced and civilized countries such staff is called 'Ancillary Staff' unlike what you call them.

ghulammujtaba86 Tuesday, June 12, 2012 07:25 PM

[QUOTE=courageneverdies;440679]What part of my argument made you think I agreed to your analogy? I am amazed you think that anyone except a Doctor or Engineer is incompetent.



Corrupt high ups would most obviously hire corrupt people. At least he is doing his job.



What else have you been doing in the previous posts? The least of it happens to be you advocating these Bureaucrats and degrading the lower grade staff.

Try to think just once, without these lower grade staff can you run your office for one day? Without class 4 employees, who clean your mess everyday, you won't be able to sit in your seats. [COLOR="Magenta"]Officers like yourself are not able to drink a glass of water on their own and call your Peon or NQ to bring it for you[/COLOR]. Its the lower grade staff that maintains the record for you as when you get bashing from the high ups to bring a certain record, you come and ask them to quickly bring this or that file to avoid further scolding. In modern, advanced and civilized countries such staff is called 'Ancillary Staff' unlike what you call them.[/QUOTE]

Brother just mind your language. I did not said a single word about yourself. Pass your arguments but not on anyone 's personality.

If they are doing job they are getting pay from govt. No more discussion with you.

courageneverdies Tuesday, June 12, 2012 07:43 PM

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440681]Brother just mind your language. I did not said a single word about yourself. Pass your arguments but not on anyone 's personality.[/QUOTE]

I said [B]Officers like yourself[/B], a referent not to you and [B]You[/B] is used as a collective term for officers (considering yourself an officer). Anyhow, this is the truth which is called bitter.

By the way, its you, who should have used language carefully and appropriately because when you generalized all the "Low Grade" officials, you counted me in too. At least, I haven't learnt to let go my disrespect.

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440681]If they are doing job they are getting pay from govt. No more discussion with you.[/QUOTE]

Now you say 'they' are getting pays for what they do, what happened to their "Low-Mentality" "Incompetence". Naib Qasids are not employed as personal servants of the Officers to do their domestic jobs like paying bills at banks, making coffee or tea and many other things etc.

I am also not interested in talking to some conceited and self-centred person.

ghulammujtaba86 Tuesday, June 12, 2012 07:47 PM

[QUOTE=courageneverdies;440686]I said [B]Officers like yourself[/B], a referent not to you and [B]You[/B] is used as a collective term for officers (considering yourself an officer). Anyhow, this is the truth which is called bitter.

By the way, its you, who should have used language carefully and appropriately because when you generalized all the "Low Grade" officials, you counted me in too. At least, I haven't learnt to let go my disrespect.



Now you say 'they' are getting pays for what they do, what happened to their "Low-Mentality" "Incompetence". Naib Qasids are not employed as personal servants of the Officers to do their domestic jobs like paying bills at banks, making coffee or tea and many other things etc.

I am also not interested in talking to some conceited and self-centred person.[/QUOTE]

then why are you replying?

courageneverdies Tuesday, June 12, 2012 07:49 PM

[QUOTE=ghulammujtaba86;440688]then why are you replying and that is true low grade and low mentality[/QUOTE]

Say whatever you want to. Any sensible person can go through these posts and decide that who is talking sane and who is not.

Shooting Star Tuesday, June 12, 2012 07:56 PM

[B]@courageneverdies[/B] [B]@ghulammujtaba86

[/B]Gentlemen,Enough of this.You have already taken this discussion in the wrong direction by generalizing it.

Be back on track and only discuss matters related PAAS or refrain from posting here.

courageneverdies Tuesday, June 12, 2012 08:01 PM

[QUOTE=Shooting Star;440691][B]@courageneverdies[/B] [B]@ghulammujtaba86

[/B]Gentlemen,Enough of this.You have already taken this discussion in the wrong direction by generalizing it.

Be back on track and only discuss matters related PAAS or refrain from posting here.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, someone started to take it to the wrong direction. I request you to go through this whole thread, judge who is responsible and penalize him. I will accept the judgement even if I am held responsible. Everyone has respect and ego.

Regards

RabiaAfzal Tuesday, June 12, 2012 10:09 PM

instead of advising the juniors and new comers aout how to coup with PAAS you people have started to fight. please advise the new commers with something valuable as both of you seem to be queit experiened.

Sociologist PU Tuesday, June 12, 2012 10:43 PM

In my humble opinion, the PAAS officers themselves are responsible for their degradation to this level as AG offices everywhere are home of corruption and that is all due to their mis-managemnet. Furthermore, they are cursed daily by the gov. employees who are mal-treated in AG offices just to get "Rishwat" :haha

zarraar Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:32 PM

Every gov official knows that account office is the most corrupt department of Pakistan and they get"5%" for passing bills of gov servants.

sarfaraz shami Wednesday, June 13, 2012 09:46 AM

I request CSP members, especially from Audit & Accounts Group to please guide us about future of this group.

Philospher King Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:44 AM

Ikram Sb your attention is required
 
Dear Ikram Sb,

I wanted to talk to you in-person .

Unable to find you email or any contact info in your profile.

Please provide me some or you can email me on [U]********[/U][EMAIL="i.muhammadd@gmail.com"]@gmail.com[/EMAIL]

Thanks

RabiaAfzal Wednesday, July 04, 2012 12:34 PM

is the pay of all css roups the sae. i have heard that IRS AND PAAS the pay is more. is it true?

sajjad sadique Wednesday, July 04, 2012 02:16 PM

in my personal opinion no group or service in css is bad..even the last ranked postal is far better than many jobs in pakistan if not all..lets b rational and think that what is the need to put any group in css list if it is as poor as my dear friend ikramullah has mentioned about PAAS,PAAS is one of the best groups,i personally know many friends from 38 and 39 CTP who are in PAAS and are more than satisfied..good and bad things are in every cadre but it is very unfortunate to discourage the aspirants. this forum is a tonic for many aspirants and a source of encouragement,i request the moderators to check this kind of propaganda against civil services as in my view it is against the soul of this forum.this forum is to encourage people and to help them succeed in CSS which is the best service in and for pakistan.

regards

Nauman Wednesday, July 04, 2012 06:02 PM

[QUOTE=RabiaAfzal;449901]is the pay of all css roups the sae. i have heard that IRS AND PAAS the pay is more. is it true?[/QUOTE]

In IRS and PCS, the officers get one basic salary in addition to their salary. However, PAAS does not have this facility.

RabiaAfzal Wednesday, July 04, 2012 10:52 PM

[QUOTE=Nauman;450020]In IRS and PCS, the officers get one basic salary in addition to their salary. However, PAAS does not have this facility.[/QUOTE]

sir please comment that wether PAAS is better or MLCG.?
what is the designation of fresh recruits in PAAS? i mean what are they called?
do all PAAS officers get OPS(own pay scale) promotion or only a few selected ones?
what isthe total pay of PAAS officers in BS 17?
i will be greatfull if you answer these queries.
Regards.

umar riaz Thursday, July 05, 2012 03:21 AM

[B]i personally think IRS is much better then PAAS, as it follows a proper bureaucratic structure.. anyhow i agree with Sajjad Shb, that this forum is meant for the encouragement of aspirants and hence such posts should be checked.. [/B]

Nauman Thursday, July 05, 2012 05:07 PM

[QUOTE=RabiaAfzal;450106]sir please comment that wether PAAS is better or MLCG.?
what is the designation of fresh recruits in PAAS? i mean what are they called?
do all PAAS officers get OPS(own pay scale) promotion or only a few selected ones?
what isthe total pay of PAAS officers in BS 17?
i will be greatfull if you answer these queries.
Regards.[/QUOTE]

Even 30th CTP of PAAS have been given OPS promotion into grade 19 and they are now directors. All get OPS promotion, turn by turn, meaning the senior u r, the earlier u get it.

if posted to audit, they r called assistant directors and assistant accountant general/assistant controller etc if posted to accounts.

facilities wise, MLCG is better than PAAS but promotions r faster in PAAS.

I think the total take home salary after completion of training will be somewhere around 32/33 thousand

[QUOTE=umar riaz;450168][B]i personally think IRS is much better then PAAS, as it follows a proper bureaucratic structure.. anyhow i agree with Sajjad Shb, that this forum is meant for the encouragement of aspirants and hence such posts should be checked.. [/B][/QUOTE]

Such posts should not be checked. Everyone is entitled to his view and should be allowed to share it as long as its not vulgar. Aim is to acquaint the aspirants with the reaqlity, not with unreasonable optimism.

However, PAAS is going through times of trial but it has been successful so far. We have recently won a case against the promotees and now even 30 CTP guys have reached grade 19.


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