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Old Monday, November 21, 2005
SIBGA-TUL-JANAT
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Arrow Today's India And China

Today's India and China

India has total of 28 million cellular users as of the end of 2003 and 18 million new users were added in 2003. See
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...0700710700.htm

China has total of 270 million cellular users as of the end of 2003 and around 60 million new users were added in the same year. See:
http://www1.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc...ent_259693.htm (the news in 08/2003)
China cell phone users reached 334 million at the end of 2004 and around 65 million new users were added in 2004. see: http://www.simmtester.com/page/news/...s.asp?num=7689

Internet users in India at the end of 2003: More than 16 million: see: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats3.htm
Internet users in China at the end of 2003: 78million. See: http://www.clickz.com/stats/big_pict...p/5911_3300411
Internet users in China at the end of 2004: 94 million see:
http://www.internetworldstats.com/articles/art045.htm

Broadband users in China at the end of 2003:17.4 million. see: http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/...communications
Broadband users in China at the end of 2004:43 million. see:
http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=P2502

Boroadband users in India: I believe it can be ignored. On Nov. 3, 2003, it was reported India only had 75000 broadband users and will not be more than 210000 by 2007. See: http://www.itfacts.biz/index.php?id=P275

The electricity power supply should be a important index for industry development and living standard. "With India still struggling hard to overcome power shortages (its current installed capacity being around 1.2 lakh mw), China is moving close to achieving a 5.2 lakh mega watt installed capacity by the end of this fiscal. " Lakh is an Indian unit, means 100,000
http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_f...tent_id=104098

only 32% of Indian families have TV. See: http://zdnet.com.com/5208-1105-0.htm...21529&start=-1
China's number is 94% which is was almost as high as in the developed countries. India will be 2/3 of this number at the end of decdade.
http://www.business-standard.com/com...&autono=202626

Less than 28 million tons of iron and steel was used in 2003 in India (An important index of infrastructure construction. This is the total India produced in 2003, and India is a net iron & steel exporter)(This is even less than what China produced in 1978 when China began its reform)
China produced around 225 million tons of iron and steel and imported other 35 million tons in 2003 for the construction. China used more iron and steel than Us and Japan combined.
See: http://www.worldsteel.org/media/wsif/wsif2003.pdf
China produced 272.5 million tons of iron and steel in 2004. See: http://www.worldsteel.org/news77_largest_cts.php
From the same link, India produced 32.6 million tons.
It was reported that China used 300 million tons of iron and steelin 2004.

55% of the world cement (Another infrastructure construction index) was used in China. See http://www.economist.com/displaystor...ory_id=2446908

China's expressway (at least 4 lanes, speed limit 100KM/hour or 120KM/hour) reaches 30, 000KM. Around 4, 600 KM is being added each year. See: http://english.sinocp.com/News/news040229.htm
India just began its first expressway project in 2003: See: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...w/46698000.cms
By the end of 2004, 34,000 km of expressway have been in use in China. See:
http://english.sina.com/china/1/2005/0113/17465.html

Railroad: In 1949, there were only 21,800 km of railway lines in China, with only 11,000 km opened to traffic since many of them were damaged or destroyed in the long time war. See: http://www.macrochina.com.cn/english...12000136.shtml
As of the end of 2004, China had 74, 000KM of railroad with much better quality. See: http://english.people.com.cn/200501/...26_171976.html
India had total of about 55,000 km Railroad in 1951. See: http://irfca.org/faq/faq-history4.html
But India has less railroad than China now.

India produced around 36 million tons of oil (A natural resource index) in 2003 and will face the resource problem soon.
China produced 160 million tons of oil in 2003 and imported more than 100 million tons in the same year.

Around 30% of Indian male cannot read newspaper and 50% of female cannot read. that means around 40% of Indians cannot read. See
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/ch.html
Less than 16% of Chinese cannot read (most of are old person and they missed the education opportunity in the old time). See
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/in.html

India has more arable land than China. Indian produced 250 million tons of grains in 2003 (Thanks for the good weather).
China usually produces 450 million tons of grains each year no matter how tough the weather is (record is more than 500 million tons)(Thanks for the biotech in China).

GDP in 2003
China 1409.852 billion US$
India 598.966 billion US$
See link: http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GDP.pdf
If based on purchase power (PPP)
China: 6435.838 billion US$
India: 3096.239 Billion US$
see link: http://www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GDP_PPP.pdf

Economy sectors:
China: Argriculture: 15% of GDP, Industry 52% of GDP, Manufacturing 35% of GDP, service 33% In 2001
India: Argriculture: 24% of GDP, Industry 27% of GDP, Manufacturing 16% of GDP, service 48% In 2001
These data comes from World Bank. You can conclude that China's industry size is at least 4 times of India's after a very simple calculation. You can see how little India's industry is.
China's industry increased 16.8% in 2003. See: http://www.cet.com.cn/20040220/SPECIAL/200402201.htm
India's increased about 8%.

Speaking of the software industry, China's software industry is the similar size of India. The difference is that Chinese companies rely on domestic market while India has almost no IT market comparing with the big countries around. China has its own software brands such as KingSoft, Rising(anti-virus), Jiangming (Anti-virus), RedFlag(Working on Linux), WPS ( office software), Yongyou(Enterprise), KINGDEE (Golden Butterfly in Chinese) ( Enterprise), Shanda (Games).

Indians are very proud of their software industry. But for the programmer education, China's education quality is much higher than India:
This is the result of ACM-ICPC World Finals which is a famous programming contest in the world. You can see Chinese students had much better performance than Indian counterpart.
http://icpc.baylor.edu/icpc/Finals/Standings.html
Here is another world-wide programmer contest. China and Chinese students got much better scores than India.
http://www.topcoder.com/stat?c=country_avg_rating (Ranking by country)
http://www.topcoder.com/stat?c=school_avg_rating (ranking by school)


Only 2.3 million PCs were sold in India in 2003. See: http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20031230S0003
and There were only 10 million PC in India as reported in April, 2004. See: http://infotech.indiatimes.com/articleshow/612158.cms
Indian PC sales hit 3.4 million in 2004 in the so-called the second IT superpower. See: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...ow/1023060.cms
More that 13 million of PCs were sold in China in 2003. See: http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040212/tech_china_pcs_1.html
Chinese PC sales rose 19 per cent to 16 million units in 2004. and China is the second largest PC market only after US. See: http://www.agencyfaqs.com/media/new_..._news/934.html


International trade in 2003
China topped 840B$ (import < export) in 2003. See: http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/20...9_131412.shtml
India: total of 154B$ (export 74B$, import: 80b$, import > export)in 2003. See: http://www.navhindtimes.com/stories....tory_ID=022829

Speaking of the technology, Let's compare the super computer because Indians are always claiming India is the second IT country in the world.
China's homemade supercomputer listed as No. 14. But the fastest one used in India is No. 105. It was made by IBM. India's homemade one is listed as No. 258. Legend (now Lenova) built another more powerful one this year. It can be listed as No. 3 or No. 4. See http://www.top500.org/list/2003/11/

Thanks for the large market scale and the recent progress in the technology, China is trying to set the international or national technology standards, such as TD-SCDMA, EVD, WAPI, AVS, RFID. We know the standard can make more and easier money than the simple production and present the development level of technilogy in one contry.

Total revenue of Wipro(around 1.17B$) and Infosys (0.97B$) in 2003 = the half of Huawei (more than 4.5B$)or ZTE around 4.0b$)
Wipro and Infosys represents India's technology. AS I know Wipro is a conglomerates, not a pure tech company as Huawei and ZTE.
Huawei's revenue in 2004 reached $5.58billion, and targets $8.5 billion for 2005.
http://itresearch.forbes.com/detail/...976948_88.html
Wirpo: $1.34B in 2004, see: http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/61/61520.html
InfoSys: $1.06B in 2004, see: http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/56/56487.html

China's IC industry is making great leap in recent years. China uses about 13% of the ICs in the world and will be one of the top IC producers in 2010.
http://english.people.com.cn/200410/...27_161765.html
http://www.taiwan-china-outlook.com/...tions/smic.pdf
http://www.eet.com/semi/news/showArt...cleId=60405079


Even Indians claim India is a democratic country. But its corruption is worse than China. China government is treating the corruption issue very seriously in recent years. see
http://www.globalcorruptionreport.or...d_research.pdf
Another research report said India's corruption is much worse than China too: http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/top...238369,00.html
Do you believe Democracy works in India?

See this report, Mumbai wants to catch up Shanghai at the cost of poor which is 60% of the residents in Mumbai. See the link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFr...487253,00.html
60% poor people cannot beat 40% rich people. It is not democracy, it is democrazy. It can only be considersed as illegal or wrong-doing in China. But if you read the comments after the news, few think about the poor. See the comments: http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=40309
Also please see the pityful poor India after their slums were destroyed by democrazy indian government: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...ess/html/1.stm

Human Rights in India? see here: 3000 farmers commited suicide in a 11million farming area in one year. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3855517.stm
Suicide rate for women is as high as 148 per 100,000, and 58 per 100,000 for men in in Tamil Nadu. http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/apr/15spec.htm
At least 5% of Mumbai's people live on the roads, and 2% are simply nomads. Another 2.5 million people live in dilapidated buildings which have been officially tagged as 'dangerous'. See the report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4222525.stm
Over 12 per cent of disabled women in Orissa have been raped and 25 per cent of those mentally challenged have been sexually assaulted in the state. Isn't that horrible? See: http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=42099
I bet Indians should work these out before they speak out the democracy and freedom and human rights.

Chinese culture is much more open than India’s. See the trouble That MacDonald’s, KFC and Coca Cola are suffering:
http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=19571
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/as...dia.mcdonalds/
See the Macdonads’s Business in China:
http://breaking.tcm.ie/2004/02/26/story135939.html

These two articles were written by the same foreign visitor (sounds like a biz man) after he visited both India and China in the same year (2000).
His view about India: http://berclo.net/page00/00en-impressions-india.html
His impression about China: http://berclo.net/page00/00en-impressions-china.html
He also described so-called Indian democracy in this article: http://berclo.net/page00/00en-india-1.html
"India is said to be the world's largest democracy. There is no dispute about its size, one billion is large, but I don't think that a country whose major priorities in the last 50 years have favored a small minority at the expense of the majority can be called "a democracy". "

Life quality: (See the CIA links above)
Indian Infant mortality rate :
Total: 59.59 deaths/1,000 live births
Female: 58.93 deaths/1,000 live births (2003 est.)
Male: 60.23 deaths/1,000 live births

Chinese Infant mortality rate:
Total: 25.26 deaths/1,000 live births
Female: 25.65 deaths/1,000 live births (2003 est.)
Male: 24.91 deaths/1,000 live births

Indian Life expectancy at birth:
Total population: 63.62 years
Male: 62.92 years
Female: 64.37 years (2003 est.)

Chinese Life expectancy at birth:
Total population: 72.22 years
Male: 70.33 years
Female: 74.28 years (2003 est.)

Sports:
The long list of Chinese medal winners at Sydney 2000 Olympic Games: See: http://www.sportorganizer.com/2000sy...00sydney16.htm
Let's congratulate to the only one Indian winner in 2000: See: http://www.sportorganizer.com/2000sy...00sydney34.htm
2004 Olympics in Athens, Please look for China from the top of the list and India from the bottom:
http://www.athens2004.com/en/OlympicMedals/medals

AIDS
India has about 10 million HIV infected people. Indian Government admits 4.5 million as of August 2003. See; http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/...aaids_8-6.html
China has more than one million as reported by BBC: See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3041214.stm

46% of general population in Bombay carry an active sexually transmitted disease (the greatest risk factor for HIV spread). Do you believe it? See: http://www.globalchange.com/indi.htm...e.com/indi.htm

Aid from outside:
China got aid from Soviet Union between late 50s to the beginning of t 60s. After that China develops on itself. India has been aided by both western countries and Soviet Union for a long time. See the link:
http://www.usaid.gov/in/UsaidInIndia/history.htm
You cannot imagine, What should India be without this aids.
China has been helping many other countries too. That's why most of Africa countries like China so much.

Religion Issues in India: http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/as...ya.background/

Foreign reserve and the external debt:
India's forex reserve < external debt
India has 100B$ reserve, See: http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/12-22-03.htm
and India has more than 112B$ in debt in the end of 2003. See: http://www.finmin.nic.in/the_ministr...dbtrep2004.pdf
China has more than 400B$ reserve. See: http://www.china.org.cn/e-company/04...page031222.htm
China has 160B$ external debt. Reserve >> debt


Some more links:
India asks how its economy can catch up with China's
http://www.forbes.com/home_europe/ne...tr1154472.html

India Versus Chin-- Was written by some Indians
http://www.samachar.com/tech/archives/techtalk51.html

Can India Catch-Up With China? -- Was written by some Indians
http://www.indiadefence.com/ind-china.htm

The Population Bomb that can devastate India, actually it is a comparison between India and China
http://www.india-watch.com/4.htm

Can India catch up with China?
http://www.flonnet.com/fl1715/17150480.htm

Can India Overtake China ? -- The famous article saying India will overtake China
http://www.alternatives.ca/article1053.html

Data show that China developed much faster than India even before China's reform. India was much better than China before the Chinese Communist Party took power. But China's GDP caught up India in 70s last century.
GDP Per capita ( I believe it is based on PPP)
Country...1820....1870....1913....1950....1973...1 998
China.......600......530......552......439......83 9....3,117
India........533......533......673......619......8 53....1,746
http://www.eh.net/encyclopedia/steck....living.us.php
http://www.eco.rug.nl/~Maddison/ (more details)

India's economic grows at average 6% GDP vs. China's grows at 9% for last 2 decades.
India has 2 times faster population grow that the same time(1.7 vs. China 0.8%).
http://devdata.worldbank.org/externa...China&PTYPE=CP
http://devdata.worldbank.org/externa...India&PTYPE=CP

In China, there is no space for the discrimination against other domestic ethnic groups. Women are enjoying the equal rights. Chinese minorities often have more rights or privileges than Han people. Can Indians say this?

Many people say India has a good social system. Does it work? In early days (40s), India was in much better position than China in all-economical aspect. Now?

The above links come from various resources. I collect these data to show the facts to people because I have heard too much on the Internet and magazines that say: India is better than China...India has more potential than China.... blah, blah.... blah, let alone that some important, high rank Indian officials say: Our missile can reach ...part of China,...China is the biggest threat to India. Many of this kind of boring, disgusting noise against China in the international community comes from India or is written by Indian.

I wish Indian people can enjoy their good life and make progress. But I don't like India’s boasting by denouncing another country, especially China, basing on no facts.

Have you Indian heard that Chinese government or Chinese news saying: India is our enemy or we are better than India. No such things at all. What we can hear often is that: India is doing better than us in IT service. We never say that our missiles can hit India either even ours can reach any corner on the Earth long time ago, let alone the neighboring India.

China is a large developing country. She has a lot of issues today and future. Our Chinese mentality is: Do it harder because we are behind (of course, not behind India), do it now because we cannot wait. We are always trying to find things that other countries are doing better than us, and trying hard to make up the gap.
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