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#11
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Let's discuss about expectations from exam 2015.
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In democratic theory, privileged class is not suppose to occupy the power but in practise they are clinging to power and this is probably because democracy is still evolving.What you wish to do is to create a privilege class in theory so that there is no chance of uprooting privilege class in practise. This is quite strange since you haven't gone through Plato Republic and it's criticism so i can expect that from you. I would request you to go through that before further comments. By the way, Bureaucrats belong to educated class and they are intelligent as well so they question is; are they making rational decisions for the greater good of people? According to your theory, they are not supposed to be corrupt since they are educated and rational! |
#12
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Also, going by your logic, jahil people in our government will never let educated & sensible people get into the government. They are the privileged class and trying to spread more jahalat so that they always remain in power. How can that be preferable to educated and sensible people trying to spread education and rationality into the society so that jahils never come back to power? |
#13
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Let's discuss about expectations from exam 2015.
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Question mark is on the formation of "Competent and sincere government" According to you ,only Educated people can form competent and Sincere government. If this is true then Bureaucrats(who are educated) would've taken us to some prosperous planet. What makes you think so that an illiterate person cant be sincere? |
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imranazeem (Thursday, September 17, 2015) |
#14
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I'm afraid Bureaucrats have to answer to jahils upstairs so they usually end up compromising themselves to earn a respectable living. If they didn't have to answer to jahils we wouldn't be in this ditch right now. Also, jahils don't do civil service reforms because they want to keep their hold on the civil servants and make them their personal servants. Jahils ka khatma ho ga upstairs only then prosperity is possible. |
#15
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No body in the world could prove that Knowledge and morality are directly proportional to each other. Being knowledgeable doesn't entail the high probability of doing greatest good for masses. Moreover Person charged with reforming civil service MR Ahsan Iqbal isn't jahil and so or many other politicians. All politicians are not Jahil many among them are educated but it doesn't mean that all educated politicians are not corrupt. Is this so? I am amazed that you are still contending your false premise which is linking knowledge to morality. Was shaukat Aziz Jahil? He was highly educated and was corrupt to his core. |
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imranazeem (Thursday, September 17, 2015) |
#16
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Anyway, I'm astounded that you cannot wrap your head around simple logic. If a person is financially and morally clean, is educated and knowledgeable & appeals to the educated people from the masses, as he would due to these qualities, then there are much higher chances that he is going to be good for the country as compared to a person who is jahil and corrupt but jahils still vote for him due to their small world view of galli muhalla & baradari based on their jahalat. If you can't understand this then you're a lost cause I'm afraid. |
#17
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Let's discuss about expectations from exam 2015.
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Still i would like to ask that an illiterate person cant be morally and financially clean ? and knowledgeable person is bound to be morally and financially clean? Clearly, it can happen and no one cant rule out the possibility of an evil genius. I rest my case! |
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imranazeem (Thursday, September 17, 2015) |
#18
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I'd also like to say that Musharraf was dependent on jahils biradari walai politicians of PMLQ and terrorist like MQM. Jihalat of the masses is THE root cause of leaders like Nawaz, BB, Bhutto, Sheikh Mujib etc. They get caught up in narai and bhangrai and vote for leaders who create these slogans to bamboozle them so that they can loot money and cling to power. My argument from the start has been that educated people have broader vision and understanding of these matters than jahil awam and so they will not be undone by these tactics. I understand that you feel like you have to win somewhere but its just sad seeing you so desperate trying to settle old scores. But as I've said before somewhere, hopefully one day you'll wake up from your deep slumber of ignorance. |
#19
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Omg, i think i started a fire! .. Anyhow, i think monk and i are in the same page. The problem is xing lee oversimplies things or over compkicates them .
First things first. I really liked how you made a point by quoting the articles. The problem is you did not quotes them in the paper or did you? The examiner is not going to buy your opinion just because you said so. This is why i highlighted why i dont agree with you. Second, trust me except for general life, quote religion only where it is needed. Pakistan affairs may have been won in islamic ideology and all that jazz. But the trust remains we are not really an islamic country and our political sysrem is not based on islamic principles Third, even if we buy yout argument of making voting a privileage. Do u really think only an educated person has the ability to have a balanced mind. To think things through? To be the most moral in his social circle? Besides, let's suppose in the future some one proposed your solution of making it a privileage. It will be only possible when the state fulfills its responsibilty of providing education to its people. Only then can we use the privileage of voting as a motivation for people to not waste their opportunity of education. But in our country, where the govt doesnt care to provide quality education (or education at all) to its people, how can it keep the condition of education for voting?. Moreover, if we consider a perfect world where almost every citizen is educated in out country, then how come voting can be counted as a privileage. It will be considered a norm. A basic right everyone has. So its not the voting that should be made a privileage but the education that should be made the norm. And this is what every country aspires for anyway. what you propose is discrimination. Btw, please ignore all the grammatical and spelling mistakes. Its hard to type on the phone that thinks its smarter than you. |
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imranazeem (Thursday, September 17, 2015) |
#20
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I disagree with your opinion on quoting the Quran. Quran and hadiths are quoted even in Supreme Court's decisions as well. Last night I was reading the detailed verdict of Supreme Court's decision on implementing Urdu as a the official language and the Chief Justice narrated an incident from the life of Hazrat Faird Ganj Shakr as an example to make a point. Have a look yourself: http://www.supremecourt.gov.pk/web/u..._dt_3-9-15.pdf Just because it becomes impossible to come up with with an argument against the Quran doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. Winning doesn't matter, the truth does. Secondly, from the years of experience that I have with online debates, I know you cannot convince anyone to change his/her opinion if he is not willing to. Its very rare that something like that happens. Especially if that certain someone has old scores to settle with you. The best you can do is to lay out your arguments and leave it to the people reading the debate to decide for themselves. And this is what my aim is here and I think I've made my self quite clear. Quote:
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The end goal is the prosperity of the country. I don't care how we get there. I only have the end goal in my mind. If only 50% of the people are capable of understanding this and voting for its implementation without getting bogged down by senseless slogans of jahil politicians then only these people are the ones whose vote should matter more. End of story. The rest can continue the nara and bhangra party. A good government once selected will endeavor to provide education to all of the people no doubt. Every year more and more people will join the caravan due to this. I don't see any contradiction or problem in this. Quote:
The entire argument is that in this society education will not be the norm because the government doesn't give a damn about it! In fact, its against it! You said it yourself. Government needs jahils in high numbers so that they can be easily fleeced for votes again and again! This cycle can only be broken if the opinions of jahils currently in the society starts carrying lesser weight than the opinion of the educated masses. This is the entire crux of my argument! Otherwise we'll never get out of a situation like today where hoards and hoards of jahil people who don't understand anything vote for their brethren only on the basis of biradari, stupidity and narai. Our history proves this. If in the distant future a situation arises where everyone is educated at some level, even then if this law of nature is tinkered with it will create bad results and injustice in the society. If you remove the competitive nature of any society and everyone gets to lifts the trophy then why should anyone care to do better? If everyone wins the world cup then whats there to strive for? |
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Daisy (Saturday, September 12, 2015) |
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