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  #21  
Old Tuesday, November 08, 2005
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Salaam,

Brother. Thank you for ending it. Regarding my suggestion about Katzara, brother you did not see that I said "IF A DAM IS INDISPENSABLE" then build Katzara.

I am against every dam.

Bhai... you've earned more plus points in my heart. I did not ever know you could be this kind to me! I love you yaar

Regards,
Adil Memon

UPDATES: ONE MORE NEGATIVE POINT OF A DAM

Naturally flowing water contains nutrients, which strengthens the land and gives a better yield. Dams store those nutrients in themselves and the lands don't get them!
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  #22  
Old Tuesday, January 03, 2006
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Default My views!!!

It would have been more appropriate if this issue was discussed in Discussion..

I am really impressed by ur views on KBD ..
@Adil...Hey dont think girls have no idea and lack techincal aspects just cuz they have declare ur essay as pro-Sindh...i would have loved the essay if u had written the essay considering whats dam supporters say and then nipping them in buds about their thinking ...
-------------------------------------------
Here my own questions and opinion
-------------------------------------------
1.I wonder if mountains are affected by earthquakes as much as ordinary plains. If they are not, dams could be built up there!
Yep look at Allai valley and what the EQ have done to drinking water in EQ affected areas
2.Secondly you say that you have no concern with Balighar dam! Am I right because its a government matter..Are u a pakistani?If u are so concerned abt sindh rights then why not abt pakistan?
3.Is there any need for Basha?After reading ur material regarding KBD if we donot afford it because of multiple reasons in which sindh could be affected then how can Basha help here..What would be it purpose of development..Just to lose money..We are already w/o money cuz we have to repay soft loans granted to us in Donar conference and we are more in need to buy VVIP planes and early warning systems and offcourse F-16's..
4.In one of your post you mention that we have enough even surplus energy(mentioned by PM)then why sindh suffer most loadshedding?
5.I wonder how u agree that we can import wheat?Dear look at the population?It seem we are going to be a poorest country soon..having no money in hand (as industry and investment required continuous water/energy and we are not thinking of supplying them enough water) and asking for wheat..Huhh sounds really scary
Regarding building dams..well I am against them environmently but in favour of them considering development issues.Its my dream to see pakistan on top of world and for this we have to adopt give and take strategy.One cannot enjoy all the stuff without giving something from his pocket unless he is a king :P.Iss hath day us hath lay is the best option available.I am just amazed at Indian clever antics they build balighar and then started Iran gas pipeline..If pakistan dare to close gas pipeline they are ready to close pakistan water..Is it allowed in Indus water treaty(I know none about it plz elobrate me)...If cons cost more than pro then I am against dams else I am supporter of dams...
After reading many articles written w.r.t pros and cons i have never saw a article written from neutral point of view showing the costs..Hoping to read one soon...I need a just view not pro and cons

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  #23  
Old Wednesday, January 04, 2006
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Salaam,

Sister Aaminah, you seem to have taken my female-bashing seriously. I never meant them by heart. It's just a prank I keep playing on the forum.
(Saba is a friend. You can confirm it.)

Thanks for the feedback on my essay. Actually if you cast a glance over the date of my post you would realise that it's not a recent one. I wrote it when it was crushed down in the botton in govt's agenda.

It was virtually impossible for me to mention the viewpoints of people when the matter was not even been discussed in the newspapers.

The responses to your queries are as follow:

1.I wonder if mountains are affected by earthquakes as much as ordinary plains. If they are not, dams could be built up there!
Yep look at Allai valley and what the EQ have done to drinking water in EQ affected areas

>> Actually one of the biggest problem in constructing a dam is arranging the site and dislocating people and their sources of income. If a dam could be constructed in the Mountains, it would be the best best place due to absence of any harrassment caused to people. I wasn't sure. Thanks for confirming it.

2.Secondly you say that you have no concern with Balighar dam! Am I right because its a government matter..Are u a pakistani?If u are so concerned abt sindh rights then why not abt pakistan?

>> I actually feel that I had committed a mistake while I was answering that. I even thought of re-editing the thread and changing my answer but found it useless since the matter had been dead.

I should have said that people lack the spirit of nationalism and are more inclined towards regionalism. I mean this for not one, not two, not three, but all the four provinces. We really don't have a meaningful noteworthy group of nationalists in this country. (Mind you, Nationalists and Regionalists are not the same.)

I apologize for this grave mistake, to you and dear brother Naveed.

3.Is there any need for Basha?After reading ur material regarding KBD if we donot afford it because of multiple reasons in which sindh could be affected then how can Basha help here..What would be it purpose of development..Just to lose money..We are already w/o money cuz we have to repay soft loans granted to us in Donar conference and we are more in need to buy VVIP planes and early warning systems and offcourse F-16's..

Sister, you would have noticed that the President is hell bent on Kalabagh first when the rest of the country wants others first. I don't exactly understand what's the problem with building either bhasha, skardu or any other dam first rather than Kalabagh. If you have really studied Kalabagh dam that much it would be in your knowledge that the project seems to be costlier than the other dams. It requires more land and more dislocation.

The President has pulled out this rabbit from his hat because he knows that 2007 elections are approaching fast and he wants the vote of the majority province (Punjab) to get re-elected. The Kalabagh dam will ofcourse please the people of Punjab.

Regarding the money issue, you would be apprised that we already had $25 Billion dollars of debt on us before the Earthquake. After the earthquake we had to take something like $4 Billion (Soft loans or loans is exactly the same thing... it's just like throwing sand in one's eye).

Besides that... we're going to buy F-16s and AWACs etc. Ok - Leave this aside. We already have something like $29 billion debt on us. If we ask the World Bank to finance three dams which would be costing nearly $30 billion... the debt will be raised to $59. In the end, according to my knowledge of economics we'll be facing severe budget deficits in near future.
We will be missing water to store in the dams. They will be useless.

One more point.... do you know where is the money from Privatization going? Well, it's being used in debt-servicing and not development. At one hand we're asking for loans - on the other we're trying to pay them. But, in between we're being deprived of our national assets like KESC, PTCL etc.

4.In one of your post you mention that we have enough even surplus energy(mentioned by PM)then why sindh suffer most loadshedding?

>> Ask the PM. He announced it himself that we had surplus energy. The problem isn't really about energy deficit as well. I believe if we minimize power losses and pilferage to enhance the quantity of available energy we won't really need any dams.

A Wapda official revealed to me that they often practice load-shedding to recover the extra consumption of electricity. This extra consumption is not the paid one... but the stolen one. (I hope it's the answer to your question)

We have other resources. I have already named them and they're all possible. The whole world doesn't make dams to fulfill it's energy needs. And when three-out-of-four elected provincial governments are against the dam what's the point in raising the issue. Either we don't have democracy or the people of all the three provinces are fools. You need to agree with one of the statement.

Sister Aaminah... people don't really have useless time to waste in political issues. Do you have 3 hours a day to come out and make a propaganda for Kalabagh dam? (Answer it truly)

Even the lawyers of Sindh are against the dam. Could you please guess up any possibility what interest do they have in opposing a project in national interest.

Tell me one good reason why would the people of three provinces oppose a dam that is in the interest of the country?

5.I wonder how u agree that we can import wheat?Dear look at the population?It seem we are going to be a poorest country soon..having no money in hand (as industry and investment required continuous water/energy and we are not thinking of supplying them enough water) and asking for wheat..Huhh sounds really scary

Sister, by that I meant that wheat can be imported but water can't be. It's simple like the people of Sindh do not trust Punjab. And they are afraid of disconnection of water supplies in the times of droughts. If you can eliminate those fears, go build the dam. If not... it would be in the interest of federation to drop the project.

(One Sindhi regionalist said that the guarantee we want from the govt. is that if Punjab stops water flow in the times of drought after the construction of KBD, the govt. will have to promise to declare "Sindh" "Independent" of the federation. What do you say about this?)

Regarding Baglihar:

Actually i've failed to get a clear-cut knowledge from the 1960 Treaty about the Baglihar problem. All I know is that India has some limited right on the three rivers of Pakistan, Indus, Jehlum and Chenab. I guess India is using that provision to construct the dam. I will make sure about this as soon as the topic touches newspaper items.

There are many neutral articles in dawn newspaper about Kalabagh Dam everyday. Don't read the letters page. Read the editorials and opinions. They're all neutral.

Regards,
Adil Memon

Actually I don't really have any complains about Punjab. I am a little ill-mannered and aggressive in my language but write what I find correct. According to me KBD isn't feasible. If it is, be it.

Till now i've not seen anybody here able to convince me about the const. of Kalabagh Dam. I will wait for those moments.
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  #24  
Old Wednesday, January 04, 2006
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Default Hmm my replies :)

Hmm I am also against his policies...
Where was he for the last 6 years..I think u r quite rite in saying abt campaign issues ..All they wish is to eat Paksitan and have no concern for it real development..I wish we have leader like Hazart Umar and Hazart Umar bin Abdul Aziz..What pains they have gone through...and just look at the rotten lot now...Sahme...I am really ashamed
I agree with you thats it is cost ful project...and esp after so much money promised(only in papers to dislocated ppl) I don't think they could even get the money they put into it..
I agree with the economic issue as well...I think thats why they are willing to sell PTCL to Eisalat at all cost even giving them 5 yrs...
I agree all we need is to economical use of our resources..After all humanity have survived w/o electricity

Sure!! why not abt the grantee...There should be something more severe than this...but plz keep this issue in just way only...Not to create pandora when all the rules are being followed

Now..
Sister Aaminah... people don't really have useless time to waste in political issues. Do you have 3 hours a day to come out and make a propaganda for Kalabagh dam? (Answer it truly)
Well I may not have 3 hrs for a issue that is in doldrums from 1953 but If i feel something really worthwhile and according to my tastes and satisfying my mind...then I am happy to spend even more than 3 hrs.
Thanks a lot for asking my questions!!
All the best
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  #25  
Old Thursday, January 05, 2006
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You agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed tooooooooooo much!

Are you insulting me ?

OK Baba... Please don't get angry... Jao bana lo dam. Mein mazaak kar raha thaa!

Regards,
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  #26  
Old Friday, January 06, 2006
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Default Are u sure!!!

I cant imagine it..
Look ppl I have won
Thanks Adil...
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  #27  
Old Friday, January 06, 2006
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Default is that exactly KalaBaghDam issue????

Well..... our leaders and politicians are busy in creating full time disturbance on the name of Poor KalaBaghDam. In this play every body is grinding his own axe. If someone is not getting any thing is the play stage i,e;Pakistan. In this roistering nobody damn cares that in this kinda leading and skipping, the Stage may not damage, someone may not be injured as already we have gone thorugh an experience .Our stage in that play was such a severely broken , didn’t fix then. What was the result? Two Parts later were decorated gracefully.

Using the name of kala bagh dam what is happening i wonder. Majority of resisters is forcoing at the point that KBD will be the main Reason of Sindh Water Blockage, resulting sindh, not to get enough water for her agriculture & also for the sea resistance. This will change a big sindh area into swamp and agriculture squares into deserts.

Even the term presented to General Parwaiz Musharraf in the meeting by Sindhi Members of General Assembly under Dr.Abdul Ghaffar (a big time Gov. Supporter), was not about to object or criticize KalaBagh dam , but it ws regarding the dead Lock of Water Supply. There demand was just that if there is a big suspension of water flow then sindh should be given constitutional opportunity to be freed from the federation.If there are well being intentions and if our Sindhi Brothers are asking for a Guarantee, Let them have it.

The actual dispute is not the effects or side effects of Dam. Our leaders got enough mind to understand and am sure they know each and every critical point clearly. The root problem is “The Lack of Trust” . to be very honest the supporters and resisters mostly are not solving but increasing more and more tension. Gen. Parwaiz Musharraf when was especially invited to Sakhar , he addressed to the gathering of around one thousand there. At that time there was not even a single famous personality who opposes dam issue.STRANGE…
If you over view the full flat story you will feel that unfortunately this Dam Debate has left the actual dam conspiracy far far away , and have been changed to political fisticuffs. the interesting part is that the political parties supporting this issue have turned against now.

I want to say that I feel that ‘KalaBaghDam’ is not the actual and exact issue but the thing bothering our Rulers is “POWER” , “AUTHORITY” . well I suggest that first they should resolve this conflict of Power then move to DAM.
I don’t say that General Parwaiz Musharraf and the struggle he is doing don’t have well-intentions towards KBD, but the Home Work he should have done for this cant be seen. Now this story should be prevented and stopped moving towards peak of tension and aggressiveness. As in this situation (which is being created) the political parties who are under pressure and are being neglected will surely try to provoc the Protesting Movements. And when an agitation gets a Power it becomes sometimes out of Control. Same thing happened in East Pakistan. Situation went out of control. Neither Molana Bhashani could hold it nor Sheikh Mujeeb-ur-Rehman. Taaj Deen Group stepped Forward and Movement suddenly turned to independence policy. Todays Ruling Powers infect are not able to judge or don’t want to judge antecedents of these protesting movements.

This issue is taken as a dispute but I see it as developing protest which can turn get a rebellious face if not contolled in the start. I am afraid if situation turns so, it will not be held even by the movement leaders.
So priority should be , concentrating in taking the political environment into confidence instead of neglecting even a single party as its not any body's cake I,e; cut a piece and eat it up.........
(Apology for any mistake )
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Last edited by Argus; Sunday, January 08, 2006 at 05:10 PM.
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  #28  
Old Friday, January 06, 2006
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Our water effciency of irrigation water is only 35%. if it is increased to 60-70%, which is there in some countries, the need of dams is substantially obviated.
I wonder why govt. is so adamant at pressing with KBD. National solidarity is in all cases supreme. We should better starve but not at all go for something that is unacceptable to the highest earning provice.
Let sleeping MQM lie indolent. Any confrontation with MQM at this stage will unleash a rein of teror and violence which will further jeopardize the already shy Foreign direct investment.
Water is an important issue, but not the only issue.

There is no use of having abundant water if we have to obtain visa to enter Hyderabad or Karachi.
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  #29  
Old Saturday, January 07, 2006
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Default ......

let MQM stay away from this matter hehehehe our leaders are enough to complicate the situation.. hehe
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  #30  
Old Saturday, January 07, 2006
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Assalam Alaikum,

I am one of very die hard MUREED of Peer Saab, I can't hear anything about him. Hehe.

Thanks.

P.S. I should have given this statement in Satan's game of lying, However I like it here.
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