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  #31  
Old Friday, January 06, 2006
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hehehe apke Peer sahab ko kisi nay kuch kaha bhi kab hay
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  #32  
Old Saturday, January 07, 2006
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Salaam,

I unconditionally agree with brother Nauman. He has caught the issue right. Efficiency should be prefered to newer construction. It costs less and reaps more from the already limited resources. This is all what Economics is about!

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  #33  
Old Sunday, January 08, 2006
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AoA

i pray for welbeing of al and sundry

well i never intend to jump in the issue, however, i use to read the posts often

''dear Adil, nouman is very right, i already agreed this, for which u may check previous posts on the issue

but dear we need eletricity as well, the production of which cannot be increased by cementing the existng canals and sub-canals

you may recal that about 30 -35 % of electricity is generated from hydel power, the remaining is got from thermal sources

dear hydel power is the cheapest source of electricity

main issues for NWFP are displacement of people, flooding of important cities and royalty

for Sindh the issues are intrusion of sea water and desertification of Sindh

i can think that share of royalty should b given to nwfp and al problems would b okay

for Sindh, their problems can be safeguarded by proposing canal-less dam however, this do not seem feasible as channels r required to b taken out from a dam

well in my thinking if Sindh and NWFP are safeguarded then there is no issue for Balochistan to oppose kalabagh as major portion of Balochistan is falling in kharan basin not in indus basin.

-----
dear sister amina , dams can only be constructed in mountains, sub-mountains, we can construct dams in plains, however, v can construct barrages, which cannot b termed as good as a dam could b
-------
as regards other dams, one should favour less contentious dams

but dear mind it, the issue of bhasha is being favoured but Norhtern areas should b safeguarded prior to any finalization and should also b given royalty (major share) keeping in mind a thing that constitutionaly northern areas are not part of Pakistan ..........................!!!!!!
---
good dear sister eram u have also jumped in the issue, v must acquaint overselves with the problems of our country as it is our country, our motherland and our generations would spend their lives here
-----
dear bro Nauman, ur judgement is indeed based on sagacity, may Allah bless you and you would b Csp this year
---
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  #34  
Old Sunday, January 08, 2006
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Default How EQ changed Pakistan!!!

P.S The issues related to dam are in bold.I read it online so thought of sharing it with you.The views are not mine personel.Plz do tell ur views
By Alok Bansal
The author is New Delhi based security analyst

How the quake changed Pakistan
December 09, 2005
Two months after the earthquake measuring 7.6 on the Richter Scale hit parts of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, Jammu and Kashmir, and northern Pakistan, it is time to analyse its impact on Pakistan, the country worst affected by the quake. Over 75,000 lives were lost, thousands were injured and millions rendered homeless, and the relief and rehabilitation costs are estimated to be $ 5.2 billion.

The devastation, however, is believed to have stirred up nascent Pakistani nationalism and has brought the country together. There was a new mood in the air where ordinary people responded to the earthquake spontaneously. The public at large instantly reacted to the catastrophe, and the affected regions were full of volunteers from far and wide.

A number of media reports compared the public solidarity with that of the heady days of 1965, which are widely believed to be the high point in Pakistan's existence as a nation state, because the war with India consolidated its claim to nationhood. However, a careful analysis of events in the immediate aftermath of the earthquake indicates that some of these comparisions are hollow.

The earthquake of October 8 not only shook the buildings and structures but also the confidence of the people of Pakistan. It was also a major setback in the efforts to overcome the economic and logistical problems faced by it. There was noticeable inertia in the initial days after the quake, and the Pakistani Army, the only functioning institution in the country, reacted late in reaching the affected areas. Senior Army officers, specially the corps commanders of Rawalpindi and Peshawar, were conspicuous by their absence from the region affected by the tragedy. In fact the Army operations continued in southern Waziristan after the tragedy and some of the helicopters badly needed for relief were still attacking the militants despite the earthquake having devastated a large area and affected millions.

Though initially the Pakistani government declared that the quake would not affect the economy, it subsequently agreed that it would have an impact and indicated that some adjustments would have to be made in allocations for social development programs. While there was a groundswell of sympathy for the victims across most of Pakistan, there was anger towards the government and the military. The anti-government elements continued their operation in the tribal areas as well as in Balochistan. There were additional reports of unscrupulous elements trying to indulge in trafficking of hapless women and children affected by the earthquake. Sectarian riots in Gilgit and surrounding areas, which are contiguous to the quake affected region, continued to take place. The region remained under curfew for weeks immediately after the quake and more than a dozen lives were lost in clashes between the Pakistani Rangers and Shia students.

The quake also reopens the debate on the location of mega dams in Pakistan, as it would definitely put a lid on the proposed mega dam at Skardu, which is located in the highly seismic zone contiguous to the epicentre of the quake. It is unlikely that a mega dam with 35 million acre feet of water will be built in this zone, as its rupture due to seismic activity would cause massive devastation downstream.

Pakistani planners will also have to reconsider the proposed Bhasha dam in Chilas district of the Northern Areas. That would only leave Kalabagh out of the proposed three sites for mega dams, which is fiercely opposed by the NWFP and Sindh. Ironically, just one week after the quake, while on one hand Pakistan has appealed to the international community to donate generously for relief and rehabilitation, on the other hand it has gone ahead and signed a billion-dollar deal with Sweden for the acquisition of six SAAB early warning aircraft.
Although the huge public outcry that followed forced the government to postpone the purchase of 77 F-16 fighter aircraft from the US, the Pakistani Army is still going ahead with the construction of new General Headquarters building and accommodation for Army top brass at Islamabad, at a time when the cost-cutting measures would seem imperative.

Around $5.9 billion was pledged at the recent donors' conference held in Islamabad, including $ 25 million by India. In the immediate aftermath of the quake there was an all-pervasive feeling in Pakistan that its long-term friends, the Arab countries and China, had not done enough in its hour of need. However, the recent pledges by Saudi Arabia, China and the United Arab Emirates to provide $340 million, $300 million and $100 million respectively for rehabilitation and reconstruction would go a long way in assuaging such feelings.

There is no doubt that across the length and breadth of Pakistan a number of individuals and non-governmental organisations have come forward to provide succour to the affected individuals. The two organisations that have really won accolades for their participation in relief efforts are the Muttahida Quami Movement and the Jamaat-ut-Dawaahl, which is in fact the reincarnation of the Lashkar e Tayiba in a new name.

The MQM's stars are already on the upswing; recent local body polls clearly indicate that it holds complete sway over urban Sind. They have successfully out-manoeuvred the fundamentalist Jamat e Islami from Karachi and their efforts in PoK have endeared them to the masses in these regions as well.

The other organisation active in relief operations in the region, which may play a more ominous role subsequently, is the JuD. This organisation, which has been in the forefront of exporting terror and sends suicide bombers across the LoC to cause death and destruction in Jammu and Kashmir and the rest of India, has ironically been in the forefront to provide succour to the affected population both in NWFP and PoK. Their volunteers have been distributing aid and carrying the wounded to hospitals in the remotest areas of the affected region and have won admiration for them in regions which have been the breeding ground for infiltrators. Their new found popularity may result in larger recruitment of terrorists in due course of time and so certainly does not augur well for India.

Another factor that has implications for India is the presence of NATO troops in the region to provide relief and rehabilitation. They may keep a tab on JuD activists while looking out for Al Qaeda and Taliban elements in the region. While the presence of NATO troops in the PoK may serve to check cross-border terrorism in the short term, their continued presence in the territory that we believe to be Indian is not in our national interest.
Natural disasters have an uncanny tendency to trigger events which have long term implications. The greatest natural disaster to have struck Pakistan in terms of lives lost was the cyclone that hit then East Pakistan in 1970. It is believed to have claimed close to a million lives and precipitated actions that led to estrangement of the affected population from the government and ultimately resulted in the break-up of Pakistan. What will be the effect of this disaster, the biggest since independence to have hit the region that constitutes Pakistan today?

Whether it will strengthen the JuD in the region or lead to the alienation of Kashmiris from Pakistan, only time will tell. But one thing is certain: things have changed irrevocably in Pakistan since October
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Last edited by Argus; Sunday, January 08, 2006 at 04:08 PM.
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  #35  
Old Sunday, January 08, 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabassum Shabbir Awan
AoA

i pray for welbeing of al and sundry

well i never intend to jump in the issue, however, i use to read the posts often

''dear Adil, nouman is very right, i already agreed this, for which u may check previous posts on the issue

but dear we need eletricity as well, the production of which cannot be increased by cementing the existng canals and sub-canals

you may recal that about 30 -35 % of electricity is generated from hydel power, the remaining is got from thermal sources

dear hydel power is the cheapest source of electricity

main issues for NWFP are displacement of people, flooding of important cities and royalty

for Sindh the issues are intrusion of sea water and desertification of Sindh

i can think that share of royalty should b given to nwfp and al problems would b okay

for Sindh, their problems can be safeguarded by proposing canal-less dam however, this do not seem feasible as channels r required to b taken out from a dam

well in my thinking if Sindh and NWFP are safeguarded then there is no issue for Balochistan to oppose kalabagh as major portion of Balochistan is falling in kharan basin not in indus basin.
Brother it's so nice of you to step in. I really like it when you present your intellectual views.

I agree that you gave your assent to efficiency. And it's quite enough to expose your broad vision and clear-cut understanding of the problems of irrigation and water management.

You said:

(but dear we need eletricity as well, the production of which cannot be increased by cementing the existng canals and sub-canals

you may recal that about 30 -35 % of electricity is generated from hydel power, the remaining is got from thermal sources

dear hydel power is the cheapest source of electricity)

Brother, if energy is really the problem we have countless alternatives. And brother I will request you to review the cost of KBD. It won't produce cheap energy. Prices escalate when environmental and social degradation is taken in view along with the interest rates and inflation in future.

Sindh really has objections to the canals. Sindh fears water-pilferage in times of drought and being a lower riparian it have any door to knock for justice.

Tell me if Energy-Generation isn't possible without constructing those right and left canals.

This general hasn't been authorized to rule the country. So it's not practical to let him take major decisions involving risk to the integrity of this country.

Constitutional Guarantees from one who overrides it with impunity is simply unacceptable to either Sindh or NWFP.

Regards,
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  #36  
Old Sunday, January 08, 2006
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AoA

hmmmmm

well dear sindh would also b a beneficiary of water stored in the dam, especially during the odd months of rabi and it would likely increase the production of many crops

sure, consensus should b there but many in sindh wil accept the gurantee by general

ny how, consensus should be arrived, in a bit hurry

tke care

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  #37  
Old Saturday, January 21, 2006
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I think scientific reasoning is the way to deal with the Kalabagh dam. We need technical peoples to handle this issue not just MPA's and MNA's using this crucial issue to fulfill their political future. The question is how feasible the construction of dam is? What are the consequencies (good or bad) we are going to suffer in coming decades. Keeping all such things in mind is the best way to deal with the issue.
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  #38  
Old Sunday, January 22, 2006
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Pakistan is a democracy, not a technocracy. Technical experts have already been given a chance to present their opinions. But taking decisions is exclusively the business of representatives of people, be they mediocres or duffers.
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  #39  
Old Sunday, January 29, 2006
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Default DAM MADE or DAMN MADE.

i am a bit late in responding to this discussion as i have joined recently.
First of all brother u have the information about the dam but its not enough. You got to be clear about certain things that provokes the need of a dam.

first of all Pakistan is still an agriculture country. its moving towards industrialization but still not there to call herself as a industrial nation.
secondly u got to be certain about the the need of dam from many different perspectives like need of dam to store water for agriculture, need of dam for electricity, need of dam to reduce the effects of flood in pakistan.
then u got to be sure of the population and reqiurement respectively. bcz the provinces like punjab and sindh are mostly sharing major portion of agricultre ,both have very fertile land and both share about 67% of our total population. Though NWFP has a fertile land as well but they are not on this side of cultivation. so NWFP does not reqiure water for cultivation. there need is to attain water for basic usage.
Then kalbagh is near DERA ISMAIL KHAN. We all know that water cannot flow from bottom to top without any pressure and if u look at the map the dam is in such part of country that it cannot push it on the upstearm without making a pointed NEHAR toward the upper punjab and if its not done the dam is purely for sindh which nowhere reqiure 6.1 MAF of water and even if sindh also share with baluchistan still a moajirty of water after a dam is constructed goes where...INTO SEA. wasted as it seems.
now if u relate the issue of SAIM and THORR with this dam then i t will happen but what damage can it cause is far less then the damage caused by the other factore that i have mentioned in the need for dam. the problem here is adjust the people living beside the site of dam..that i believe should be seariouly considered by the GOvt. bcz its really necessary.. i agree on this point of urs.
u have mentioned about the dams of INDIA on completion of whihc we would no longer be having surplus water.
my dear we also attain water from the places of Upper NWFP and different agencies in NWFP thru melting of snow.
where would it go?
if u have been through papers of last few DECADES then every governtment has proposed for this dam but the oppposition never let them made it because of thier personal issues..politicians have made it an issue that took it far away from problem solving issue to undisputed issue. every1 wants to be credited for it in anyway heor she thinks its right for him.
The most important thing that must know is th where is that stored 6.1 MAF water mostly required andon what basis with actuall facts and figures and then what sustanied damages or losses we might have when we campare two things"DAM MADE" and "DAMN MADE"
i can discuss a lot more things but its enough for me now.
Please forgive me if i had been harsh to any1 thru my words.
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  #40  
Old Thursday, March 09, 2006
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Salam Adil,
sorry for being so late.
well first of all Adil it is really a nice and semi comrehensive work................for a moment i went into flash back in my M.E.F Final's classroom where KALABAGH DAM was the burning issue of all the times.

Well Every one here talked abt technical point of view...........as i'm a non-technical person but i understood all those points
I want to ask tht either Kalabagh Dam has an effect on NFC AWARDS Distribution
if yu give a brief description relating NFC AWARDS and KALABAGH DAM i'll be very grateful to yu

Regards
Qurat
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