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  #21  
Old Wednesday, August 13, 2014
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Russia safeguarding its naval base in syria by not letting USA launch an offensive against Assad regime
That's a tactical advantage they got but not necessarily a victory.

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Asean members resolving disputes especially border issues without fighting
That's dispute resolution, everybody's winning. Not really a conquest.

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The greatest example as you quoted is that of Cold War which transformed the bipolar world into unipolar world
Of course, that's the only solid example I could think of. I think the whole essay needs to be structured around Cold War with the conclusion that the Capitalist Bloc were the great nations that won without resorting to war -which of course would be disastrous given the threat of nuclear weapons. A counter-argument could be it were nuclear weapons not their greatness that avoided the direct military confrontation
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Winning does not necessitate to be with regards to war

I would say not a tactical advantage but a successful defence. Have you forgotten that after chemical attack in syria, usa was all set to launch a military offensive against syria. It was the Russian diplomacy which averted this.

Dispute leads to war brother, 3 wars on Kashmir

Both had nuclear weapons, so how did one win and one lose

Last edited by mhz99; Saturday, September 13, 2014 at 08:37 AM.
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  #23  
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I am discussing Hajira's thesis which necessitates it. Winning without directly fighting a war. Yes, but even with USA attacking Syria they wouldn't be fighting directly with Russia. Given there is no clear victory in Syria as rebels and the State are still holding territories and nobody is sure which side would win.

This tactical victory can be used as a weak example, somewhere in between the middle but it couldn't be used as big 3 or 4 strong examples IMO of course.
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Usa attack would have ensured one thing, end of Assad regime. Like it did in libya

Safeguarding a national interest is of prime importance to a nation

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Both had nuclear weapons, so how did one win and one lose
That averted the war! They had to think of more creative ways to win. Soft power, diplomacy, bloc formation, proxy wars. In the end the Soviet Union exhausted itself and collapsed. I wouldn't say it's the only cause of its collapse but cold war and constant pestering by the United States helped in its fall. Therefore, the victory.

The point is the United Nation is a Great Nation which won without fighting-directly- but why didn't it fight directly? Nuclear threat or just because it thought I am too Great to fight directly, let's defeat the Soviets the softer way!
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USA fought directly in vietnam, iraq and Afghanistan. What it got, humiliation and nothing else

That's the thesis: great nations win without fighting by resorting to soft diplomacy, proxy wars and media warfare.

Media is also an important weapon in winning without fighting.

Wars are fought to achieve a target. If that target is achieved by asean members without fighting then this can be termed as winning. And yes there can be a win-win situation or should I say give and take.

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USA fought directly in vietnam, iraq and Afghanistan. What it got, humiliation and nothing else
Yes, that's even the counter-argument to the original thesis. Why did the US fight in these countries and avoided fighting directly with the Soviet Union?
The answer: They didn't have nuclear weapons and long range missiles. Its cold war creativity was as a result of this threat! Not its underlying choice -and thus resulting Greatness- of avoiding fight and winning and winning without a direct combat.

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That's the thesis: great nations win without fighting by resorting to soft diplomacy, proxy wars and media warfare.
Yes. That's the thesis.
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Not a counter argument but it rather consolidates the thesis. Even weak nations like those mentioned above can not be won over by fighting

Another way of winning without fighting is economic sanctions

Add that to thesis too

This essay can go both ways, just like the essay Gender equality is a myth or reality. Both are correct, it depends how you argue and present your case.

You and me are arguing on this topic and in the end both pass. Win-win situation.

And then we will say Great men win without fighting :p

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Wars are fought to achieve a target. If that target is achieved by asean members without fighting then this can be termed as winning. And yes there can be a win-win situation or should I say give and take.
Ok. Add dispute resolution by Asean countries making them Great Nations who won without fighting. Also add China routinely bullies them in the South China by its military might to hold its control over islands in South China Sea without directly fighting. If that's its victory

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Not a counter argument but it rather consolidates the thesis. Even weak nations like those mentioned above can not be won over by fighting
Yes fighting is bad. Not fighting is good. That again calls for examples how to gain a victory without fighting.

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Another way of winning without fighting is economic sanctions
How did economic sanctions help in winning so far? Who won?
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