|
Share Thread: Facebook Twitter Google+ |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
#11
|
||||
|
||||
Dear Bro, I have never, in any post, argued that average K.E is dependent on the size of the body.. And Average is not the median of only one molecule but median of all the molecules..
|
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
"why mercury is used in thermometr not water"
__________________
"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa" |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
@Da Skeptic
Here's you answer: (Which I gave in my first post, but in my ignorance I had not read your question to shape it into an answer) Temperature IS related to heat, here's why: Take a sea and put in it a thermometer. The temperature reading will be close to atmospheric temperature. Right? Now you take a cup of tea, and put in it a thermometer. The temperature will be higher. Your argument is that the heat in sea is higher compared with the heat in tea. But this is not true. Let me explain. When we measure heat, we don't measure the energy in the body, we measure the energy that moves. So, if you put the thermometer in sea, the energy that moves from water to mercury (Which then increases K.E. of mercury molecules causing them to rise) is heat. This is very small. If a large amount of heat had transferred in case of sea then we would have seen mercury rise even higher. So in fact the heat is GREATER in case of tea than sea. Another concrete reason is Newton's Law of Cooling which states that "Rate of heat transfer is directly proportional to the temperature difference", this means that the greater the DIFFERENCE of temperature between mercury and sea/tea, the MORE will be heat transferred. You have confused the concept of Heat with Kinetic Energy and Potential Energy. Because the K.E. and P.E. of sea are indeed higher than those of tea. Let me say it again, heat is the energy in move. Nothing possess heat. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Let me make it clear... Measure means number or degree, not multiple dost. The example of sea and a cup of hot tea makes sense here when it comes to the difference between heat and temperature but you are trying to relate the phenomenon in a wrong way. True, sea may have more energy than a hot cup of tea but less temperature comparatively, BUT it does not totally conform to the definitions put forward by you. In fact both are as different as chalk and cheese. I guess you need to study both over again. And your adamant refusal to accept the definitions inspite of having been provided with the authenticated references, has led me to study heat and temperature over again. To check if I was wrong anywhere I had a study of heat and temperature for half an hour just a little earlier, and what I have come up with is that the definitions of both heat and temperature as put forward by you are wrong. I have already detailed about temperature. I have elaborated heat in detail in reply to chemguy's post below. Read it carefully. I can rattle of a thousand more references to prove that heat is a form of energy and temperature a measure of it. Can you just provide me only reference to prove me wrong? Please do me this favour. Quote:
It's not just transfer of energy that takes place when it comes to heat, but the production of heat also. Heat does not only occur when it flows from a hot body to a cold body, but also produced through friction, viscosity, or chemical reactions etc. Let me give you an example of heat by friction here. Rub your both hands vigorously with each other. Make sure that both of your hands are cold. You'll observe that your both hands warm up. This is because the average kinetic energy of molecules increases as the result of rubbing, which in turn increases temperature. This proves that heat does not only occur by transfer from a hot body to a cold body but also by production. And in case of hands, none of both is hot- both are cold. The foregoing example also elaborates that temperature is directly proportional to the average kinetic energy of molecules, that is the temperature increases if the average kinetic of molecules increases. Other example can be given that of chemical reactions like respiration in human body. During respiration, carbohydrates are oxidised and as the result carbon dioxide, water and energy are produced. This also proves that heat is produced, not just transferred because of temperature difference. So the complete definition of heat goes as "Heat is energy produced or transferred from one body, region, set of components, or thermodynamic system to another in any way other than as work." So, the transfer of heat takes place through conduction (also called diffusion), convection, or radiation, etc. While the production of heat can take place through friction or viscosity or chemical reactions etc. The definition given by you is correct when it comes to a closed system (with no external transfer of matter) but here we are talking about heat in general. Correct me if I am wrong. Quote:
And in your last sentence, let us replace the term "energy in move" by energy in flow or flow of energy or transfer or energy or energy transfer, because it gives an impression to mean energy in motion. And we know energy is never in motion. Even when it comes to kinetic energy, it's not the energy itself that is in motion but the object in motion is said to possess kinetic energy. For example, a bullet passing an observer has kinetic energy. PS: Thank you guys for making me read heat and temperature over again and giving me chance to make my pitch on the topic. I don't mind being corrected. So you can point out if I am wrong. Regards
__________________
Real richness is that you are so expensive that no one can buy your character. |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
sea K:E is more and cup has less.more K:E stands for more evaporation and higher the rate mean lowering the temperature of subject .so sea has high rate of evoporation whereas cup has less .tha`s why it is more hot as compared to sea
__________________
"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa" |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
@Sadia Shafiq:
Sea's total K.E. is indeed more (Because of the size) but if you were to compare the K.Es of one molecule of sea and one molecule of tea, the Kinetic energy of the molecule of tea will more more. A system's total K.E. is not the only indicator of rate of evaporation, it also depends on size of system. The reason there is more evaporation is because of sea's surface area. If you pour tea on ground it will too evaporate faster. @Azeegum: I agree that heat can be made from friction and viscosity. And heat can come from many other sources, I guess in my ignorance I was forcing my limited study of heat (thermodynamic perspective) to be the only meaning of heat. I still like my definition better because for all practical purposes in thermodynamics it rules! Wikipedia: Quote:
Your definition is incomplete because if you think about light energy, it can be transferred without any work. Quote:
Newton's Law of Cooling: Newton's Law of Cooling is a very general law and it is not limited to convection. It accounts for all 3 modes of heat transfer because it has only 2 parameters 'Temperature' and 'Time'. And if you know a body's initial temperature, you can calculate its 'k' a constant unique to it which is its overall ability of heat transfer, you can calculate its temperature sometime in future. P.S.:We're splitting hair here :p The original question has been answered several times. But bro, thanks for clarifying this concept! |
#17
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
"Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa" |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Heat:
>Heat is the total energy of molecular motion in a substance. >Heat energy depends on the speed of the particles, the number of particles (the size or mass), and the type of particles in an object. >It is heat that will increase or decrease the temperature. If we add heat, the temperature will become higher. If we remove heat the temperature will become lower. Temperature: >Temperature is a measure of the average energy of molecular motion in a substance. >Temperature does not depend on the size or type of object. >Higher temperatures mean that the molecules are moving, vibrating and rotating with more energy and vice versa.
__________________
"It is better to be unknown than ill-known" |
The Following User Says Thank You to shaki For This Useful Post: | ||
Da Skeptic (Tuesday, February 21, 2012) |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
All three answers separately made by you to my posts are apparently self-contradictory. On the one hand you're admitting that heat does not only occur by transfer but also its production. On the other hand, you think that that definition of heat as given by me is incomplete. And yet in another answer, you're going against what you claim in your second answer. First of all let us read the definition of heat here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat Read the introductory lines of article. Now let me make it more clear... Heat is an energy transferred or produced by any means other than work. Work is an exception to it. I didn't mean that heat as caused by work is also termed as heat according to its standard definition. And transfer of heat through radiation is spontaneous. And not just radiation, all other means of heat transfer like convection, conduction etc are spontaneous, that is they do not require to have been caused by work to be called as heat as given in definition. Transfer of heat from sun to earth (ie radiation) is again a phenomenon of transfer of energy. It can not be termed as energy in motion or move. Energy does not move itself. To term energy in motion, is a tantamount to rejecting the standard definition of kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is defined as "The Kinetic energy (KE) is the energy an object possesses because it is in motion. Moving cars, falling bricks, and vibrating molecules all have kinetic energy. Be careful: it is not energy in motion, or energy going from one place to another, it is the energy something has just because it is in motion." Visit the source: Heat and Energy Newton's Law of Cooling No ! The said law only accounts for convection of heat. Infact Newton's Law of Cooling particularly describes the cooling of a warmer object to the cooler temperature of the environment which is only carried out through convection. Convection is a mode of heat transfer through liquids and gases caused by molecules from hotter body to colder body and vice versa. Let us take for example holding your one hand above the flame of a candle and the other on one side of the flame at the same distance from the flame. The hand above the burner feels more heat than the other. This is because the hot gases from the flame rise when part of the gas is heated and the cold gas moves to take the place of hot gas. This phenomenon is known as convection of heat. Other example can be given of the earth. At night, the land cools down more quickly than the sea. The hot air over the sea rises and cold air from the land takes its place. The cooling down of earth is convection and you can detect the temperature difference by applying formula of Newton's Law of Cooling. So, in case of Newton's Law of cooling, the temperature of a body drops down because heat flows out of it. The cooling of a hot coffee is also a case of convection. This law does not apply in case of heat conduction. So in more elaborative terms, the complete definition of Newton's Law of Cooling goes as "For a body cooling in a draft (ie by forced convection), the rate of heat loss is proportional to the difference in temperatures between the body and its surroundings." Visit the reference: Newton's Law of Cooling -- from Eric Weisstein's World of Physics If you still believe that Newton's Law of Cooling also talks about other modes of heat transfer like conduction or diffusion, radiation etc then just give me any example of heat conduction or radiation by applying Newton's Law of Cooling. I don't know if it is possible. If you can prove it then it will add to my knowledge. And your last lines make me smile Don't worry we're not going to stumble into splitting hair of each other or of ourselves I share what I know and so does everyone including you. It's share and share alike you know. Regards
__________________
Real richness is that you are so expensive that no one can buy your character. |
#20
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
making sense of secondary science research into children's ideas (1994). By Rosalind driver, ann squires, peter rushworth, valerie wood-robinson. Chapter name, Heat, published by Routledge.. And every where, u have been giving ur own "intellectual analysis and interpretation", not references..
__________________
"So my birth was the first of all my misfortunes". (Jean Jacques Rosseou) |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Solved Everyday Science Papers | Dilrauf | General Science & Ability | 4 | Friday, April 08, 2011 06:10 PM |
Second Law of Thermodynamics & Entropy. | ravaila | Physics | 1 | Wednesday, August 27, 2008 05:32 PM |
Global Warming - Fact or Fiction. | Omer | Essays | 0 | Wednesday, March 19, 2008 02:00 PM |
Geography One - FACTORS AFFECTING HORIZONTAL AND VERTICAL DISTRIBUTION OF TEMPERATURE | Bhalla Changa | Geography | 0 | Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:56 PM |