Thursday, March 28, 2024
08:31 PM (GMT +5)

Go Back   CSS Forums > CSS Compulsory Subjects > Pakistan Affairs

Closed Thread Share Thread: Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook     Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter     Submit Thread to Google+ Google+    
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old Monday, April 21, 2008
Usman Naseer's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Karachi
Posts: 182
Thanks: 99
Thanked 489 Times in 122 Posts
Usman Naseer will become famous soon enough
Post Complete Notes on Pak Affairs by DR. Hasan Askari

Complete Notes on Pak Affairs by DR. Hasan Askari

Download complete, comprehensive and precise notes on Pakistan Affairs by Renowned scholar Dr. Hassan Askari.

Click and Download the pdf file. http://downloads.ziddu.com/downloadf...kstdy.pdf.html

http://vulms.vu.edu.pk/Courses/PAK30...ds/pak_301.zip

Absolutely perfect for CSS Preparation, Covers All most every topic of the Syllabus.

Please express gratitude to Virtual University of Pakistan.

Last edited by Amna; Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 01:44 AM. Reason: Link updated
The Following 125 Users Say Thank You to Usman Naseer For This Useful Post:
Nonchalant (Monday, June 30, 2008), Aarwaa (Monday, April 21, 2008), Aayman (Tuesday, November 11, 2014), Abdul Ghafoor kakar (Monday, January 25, 2010), Abdul Naveed Shaikh (Friday, July 12, 2013), abrowaqas (Thursday, December 17, 2009), adeel abdullah (Wednesday, February 20, 2013), AdeelAhmed (Tuesday, April 17, 2012), Adnan kh (Saturday, March 03, 2012), aliraza171 (Saturday, April 26, 2008), amirtanveershah (Friday, December 25, 2009), Anaiza Ch (Monday, June 24, 2013), Ansar ghafoor (Wednesday, October 27, 2010), aqee56 (Sunday, November 22, 2009), AR-Rehman (Friday, February 04, 2011), arianstud (Tuesday, July 31, 2012), ARSoomro (Tuesday, February 19, 2013), atif jamil (Friday, September 04, 2009), Attia Farooq (Tuesday, October 09, 2012), Bazgha Saleem Khan (Wednesday, April 25, 2012), Beauty (Tuesday, March 19, 2013), Broken Arrow (Wednesday, July 25, 2012), Capt Farhan (Saturday, April 21, 2012), Change (Monday, April 12, 2010), chitrali (Wednesday, August 20, 2008), csszeeshan (Thursday, June 03, 2010), dr.junaid (Saturday, May 17, 2008), ehsan ullah shahzad (Monday, August 24, 2009), Ella (Tuesday, September 30, 2014), Faisysaeed (Tuesday, February 19, 2013), FaizaMukhtar (Tuesday, November 26, 2013), faizkhosa (Wednesday, July 06, 2011), fakharimam (Monday, September 17, 2012), Faraz_1984 (Thursday, June 04, 2009), FarQaLeeT (Monday, December 21, 2009), filza bukhari (Wednesday, August 28, 2013), fluent_20 (Saturday, August 15, 2009), Fozu (Sunday, January 11, 2015), Freedom Fighter (Friday, September 12, 2014), fromQAU (Saturday, September 26, 2009), guideme (Sunday, May 23, 2010), HERO (Sunday, April 27, 2008), hira imam rizvi (Tuesday, April 07, 2009), Huzefakhan (Saturday, March 06, 2010), iamcalledasad (Friday, April 10, 2009), inayat khaskheli (Monday, March 22, 2010), inayatali (Saturday, October 30, 2010), ineXorable (Saturday, May 23, 2009), Intenser (Wednesday, June 25, 2008), iranibilly (Friday, June 21, 2013), isha saeed (Friday, January 11, 2013), israrahmed (Wednesday, May 06, 2009), Jawad Bukhari (Friday, November 18, 2011), Kamran Chaudhary (Tuesday, November 26, 2013), kamran_shaikh (Wednesday, September 08, 2010), kashifilyas (Thursday, December 24, 2009), Khalil Kahloon (Monday, June 23, 2008), Khan Nasar (Friday, May 17, 2013), madiha alvi (Thursday, October 17, 2013), MALIK SHAABAN (Thursday, September 03, 2009), manjhu26 (Monday, May 19, 2014), mashal khan (Monday, April 06, 2009), Mashori Ayaz (Monday, August 24, 2009), mjkhanwazir (Friday, January 02, 2015), Mohammad Imran Idrees (Saturday, August 29, 2009), Mohsin Ehsan LL.M (Thursday, August 27, 2009), Artemis (Tuesday, May 20, 2008), Mubashira Khanum (Thursday, February 11, 2010), Muhammad humayun (Monday, November 02, 2009), Muhammad T S Awan (Monday, April 21, 2008), munwar (Thursday, August 21, 2008), nowsherwan (Sunday, July 11, 2010), Omer (Monday, May 19, 2008), onybutt (Monday, June 06, 2011), pisceankhan (Thursday, July 03, 2014), prince93 (Sunday, April 15, 2012), Qaiserks (Tuesday, August 11, 2009), R3b3l (Thursday, October 14, 2010), Raat ka musafir (Sunday, October 27, 2013), Rattle (Friday, June 04, 2010), Riaz Khoso (Friday, March 15, 2013), rishikhan (Tuesday, November 26, 2013), RJ STYLE (Saturday, December 07, 2013), rose_pak (Thursday, December 31, 2009), s malik (Sunday, May 23, 2010), saeedlaghari (Thursday, April 09, 2009), safdarmehmood (Monday, April 21, 2008), sahil roy (Sunday, February 20, 2011), Sajid Sadeem (Saturday, January 09, 2010), Saqib Riaz (Tuesday, June 09, 2009), Sara Hamid (Sunday, December 20, 2015), sarparah1 (Saturday, April 26, 2008), SeektoLead (Wednesday, July 11, 2012), Shafique Malik (Sunday, May 08, 2011), Shaista hussain (Monday, February 07, 2011), shakeel shaikh (Wednesday, April 23, 2008), sharp mind (Wednesday, December 17, 2014), Shining Crystal (Saturday, August 16, 2008), shozab.hussaini (Wednesday, February 10, 2010), Siddique (Sunday, January 04, 2015), sobia kayani (Tuesday, June 18, 2013), socrates (Tuesday, February 26, 2013), sonia5 (Sunday, November 11, 2012), sozano123 (Tuesday, February 22, 2011), stormblower (Monday, April 21, 2008), Sureshlasi (Tuesday, April 22, 2008), Syzash (Thursday, June 19, 2008), Taimoor Gondal (Sunday, April 10, 2011), Taimoor Mayar (Saturday, July 27, 2013), Tassawur (Monday, October 25, 2010), ubaidullah qazi (Wednesday, February 03, 2010), unsolved_Mystery (Thursday, September 23, 2010), Urma Waqar (Tuesday, April 16, 2013), usman malik 65 (Wednesday, January 27, 2010), virgoan (Monday, November 01, 2010), waqaskayani (Wednesday, April 20, 2011), Wasim Usmani (Monday, August 02, 2010), xenia (Thursday, September 24, 2009), Yasser28 (Tuesday, April 22, 2008), zaheer baloch (Thursday, April 24, 2008), Zee_kakar (Friday, November 20, 2009), zoheb (Tuesday, November 18, 2014), Zoyee (Tuesday, August 11, 2009)
  #2  
Old Thursday, April 09, 2009
The Star's Avatar
Senior Member
Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason:
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sargodha
Posts: 420
Thanks: 380
Thanked 448 Times in 216 Posts
The Star has a spectacular aura aboutThe Star has a spectacular aura aboutThe Star has a spectacular aura about
Default

Download PDF file from the link:

http://www.ziddu.com/download/4223123/pakstdy.pdf.html
__________________
The color of blood in my veins is green,I am a proud Pakistani.
The Following 36 Users Say Thank You to The Star For This Useful Post:
adeel abdullah (Wednesday, February 20, 2013), AFRMS (Monday, April 13, 2009), Attia Farooq (Tuesday, October 09, 2012), aurora2009 (Tuesday, April 14, 2009), Beauty (Tuesday, March 19, 2013), CHESSMASTER (Thursday, December 01, 2011), Csp (Friday, November 06, 2009), engrishaq (Thursday, May 06, 2010), Erum Qureshi (Saturday, November 17, 2012), Faraz_1984 (Thursday, June 18, 2009), Gulzar Ali (Sunday, November 11, 2012), Himmat Na Haar (Sunday, December 13, 2009), impressionist (Saturday, October 24, 2009), Intenser (Tuesday, July 21, 2009), isha saeed (Monday, May 13, 2013), israrahmed (Wednesday, May 06, 2009), Viceroy (Thursday, April 09, 2009), MUHAMMAD TAIMOUR (Saturday, February 15, 2014), onlytheali (Thursday, December 31, 2009), pisceankhan (Tuesday, June 24, 2014), pure (Wednesday, December 09, 2009), Raat ka musafir (Sunday, October 27, 2013), Raz (Friday, April 10, 2009), rishikhan (Tuesday, November 26, 2013), Rizwan Chaudhry (Tuesday, May 05, 2009), Shaista hussain (Monday, February 07, 2011), Sheikh M Siddique (Friday, January 06, 2012), Shining Crystal (Wednesday, September 02, 2009), shohail (Saturday, March 02, 2013), Siddique (Sunday, January 04, 2015), supersonic dexter (Sunday, June 28, 2009), Syed Imran Ali (Wednesday, June 27, 2012), umaira88 (Saturday, September 01, 2012), Urma Waqar (Tuesday, April 16, 2013), Waqas77 (Tuesday, March 02, 2010), xeesabir (Monday, December 19, 2011)
  #3  
Old Wednesday, July 08, 2009
Ms. Lily's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 100
Thanks: 67
Thanked 190 Times in 67 Posts
Ms. Lily will become famous soon enough
Default

pakistan affairs notes of Dr. hassan askari are given here in pdf format: pak-affairs notes.zip
...................................
__________________
The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
.::Be Different::.
M$. L!|y
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Ms. Lily For This Useful Post:
AdeelAhmed (Tuesday, April 17, 2012), azhera (Sunday, November 17, 2013), Bilal88 (Thursday, August 30, 2012), Farhat Mahfooz (Sunday, October 27, 2013), khan (Monday, October 01, 2012), manankamboh (Friday, May 17, 2013), mtariqafridi@yahoo.com (Monday, October 04, 2010), Muhammad T S Awan (Monday, August 17, 2009), pisceankhan (Tuesday, June 24, 2014), qureshi niaz (Monday, April 08, 2013), rishikhan (Tuesday, November 26, 2013), UbaidKhalid (Sunday, June 30, 2013), zainab Durrani (Wednesday, September 22, 2010), Zinnia (Monday, August 10, 2009)
  #4  
Old Monday, August 10, 2009
Omer's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: +97339408219
Posts: 521
Thanks: 377
Thanked 306 Times in 187 Posts
Omer will become famous soon enough
Default

These lectures/notes are good but other books need to be consulted to have more material on respective topics.

These notes are excellent but they cover only a part of the subject.
__________________
"A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done."

Last edited by Shooting Star; Friday, March 16, 2012 at 12:02 AM. Reason: merged
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Omer For This Useful Post:
prince93 (Sunday, April 15, 2012), Tauseef Dar (Thursday, October 04, 2012)
  #5  
Old Tuesday, August 25, 2009
Saqib Riaz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rawalpindi
Posts: 578
Thanks: 426
Thanked 899 Times in 440 Posts
Saqib Riaz is just really niceSaqib Riaz is just really niceSaqib Riaz is just really niceSaqib Riaz is just really nice
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheetal Harris
I am unable to download the zip file, will u plz send me notes on **********@gmail.com, will be thankful.
regards

Try this
pak-affairs notes.zip
Regards
__________________
Always do what you are afraid to do
Saqib Riaz(TIPO KHAN)

Last edited by Shooting Star; Friday, March 16, 2012 at 12:04 AM.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Saqib Riaz For This Useful Post:
AshA (Thursday, August 27, 2009), Purab Sarhan (Wednesday, April 25, 2012), sozano123 (Monday, February 28, 2011)
  #6  
Old Monday, October 12, 2009
aariz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Karachi
Posts: 756
Thanks: 439
Thanked 446 Times in 319 Posts
aariz is just really niceaariz is just really niceaariz is just really niceaariz is just really nice
Default

I have read the notes of VU. I dont think that the notes cover the syllabus and are not sufficient for the paper. The reason is that there is no facts and figures and main thing the information given on the topic is not sufficient. Secondly, so many topics have been skipped in the notes.
__________________
Try not to become a man of success but a man of value.
  #7  
Old Monday, December 21, 2009
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Room 101
Posts: 941
Thanks: 864
Thanked 612 Times in 363 Posts
Andrew Dufresne is just really niceAndrew Dufresne is just really niceAndrew Dufresne is just really niceAndrew Dufresne is just really niceAndrew Dufresne is just really nice
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAHIKAN View Post
hello naseer
i m not able to have this page as it is showing this file has been removed can any 1 help me out
Dear Mahikan,

Virtual University keeps updating their Learning Management System, due to which links to their handouts also change.

Currently, link to Dr Hassan Askari handout is this.


Regards

Last edited by Amna; Saturday, January 17, 2015 at 01:08 AM.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Andrew Dufresne For This Useful Post:
MAHIKAN (Wednesday, December 23, 2009), nageen (Tuesday, December 22, 2009), Razzi (Thursday, June 09, 2011)
  #8  
Old Thursday, December 24, 2009
Sajid Sadeem's Avatar
Senior Member
Qualifier: Awarded to those Members who cleared css written examination - Issue reason: CE 2009 - Roll no 5225
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lahore
Posts: 122
Thanks: 326
Thanked 169 Times in 85 Posts
Sajid Sadeem will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAHIKAN View Post
dear sajid .
can u plz send me eds notes too as these notes are very nice .....
Hi,

Would love to send u these notes, but unfortunately Virtual University does not have any course regarding EDS. So, they have no notes on this subject. They have notes on Banking, Auditing, Accounting, Finance, Commerce, Computer Science, IT, Human Resource, Business Administration, Public Administration, Mass Communication, Psychology, Statistics, Mathematics, Islamiat, Pakistan Studies, and English.
Could help you in any of these subjects !
__________________
Knowledge speaks, wisdom listens......

Last edited by Andrew Dufresne; Sunday, May 23, 2010 at 05:18 PM.
  #9  
Old Sunday, May 23, 2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Room 101
Posts: 941
Thanks: 864
Thanked 612 Times in 363 Posts
Andrew Dufresne is just really niceAndrew Dufresne is just really niceAndrew Dufresne is just really niceAndrew Dufresne is just really niceAndrew Dufresne is just really nice
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wasfagillani View Post
nahi ho raha download
Check this link.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Andrew Dufresne For This Useful Post:
andleeb Akhter (Monday, November 22, 2010), Mehria (Saturday, July 03, 2010), mtariqafridi@yahoo.com (Monday, October 04, 2010), Noor_2009 (Monday, September 20, 2010), sajjad khan joiya (Tuesday, May 25, 2010), Surmount (Sunday, May 23, 2010)
  #10  
Old Thursday, October 07, 2010
khuram_khokhar's Avatar
Senior Member
Qualifier: Awarded to those Members who cleared css written examination - Issue reason: Css 2010 - Roll no 5856
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 167
Thanks: 103
Thanked 173 Times in 116 Posts
khuram_khokhar is on a distinguished road
Default

ALLAH ABAD ADDRESS
INTRODUCTION
Iqbal delivered a monumental address on 29 December, 1930 which is unquestionably one of the most significant documents in the modern history of Islam in the sub-continent. It is regarded as a landmark in the history of Muslim nationalism as well as the partition proposals in the sub-continent while acknowledging its significance Sharif ul Muja hid describe the solution proposal by Iqbal in this address as a synthetic concept of Muslim nationalism.
BACKGROUND
Iqbal’s Allah Abad address also represented a paradigm shift in iqbal’s thought or thought process which may be attributed to two reasons.
a) Change in Iqbal's concept of nationalism. For instance, Iqbal began as nationalist, he was a diehard nationalist and his earlier poetry Steve in patriotic theme e.g. Naya Shabala, Hindustani Bache Ka Geet represents Iqbal's thought but with passage of time his concept of nationalism underwent change particularly during his stay in Europe and he became exponent of two nation theory.
b) This change in Iqbal's thought also synchronized with his disillusionment towards the course of Indian politics particularly the nature of direction of Hindu politics. Particularly the intransigents of Hindus towards Muslims. So Iqbal's Allah Abad address may be intextualize in this context. As this illutiernment became more acute in late 1920s.
FEATURES
1) Iqbal began his address with theoretical exposition of basic principal of Muslim polity. He expressed the view that there is no bifurcation in the Islamic ideology between spirit and matter. In Islam, spirit and matter, church and state are integrated into a compact structure. They form a part of organic whole. Therefore, he by highlighting and expounding by highlighting basic principal of polity. He tried to project Islam as an ethical plus ascertain kin of polity which cannot be separated. He further implied that a social structure regulated by legal system and animated by specific label. So he presented concept of Islamic solidarity as social unity. Social order is production of religious order.
2) Then he surveyed the Indian political situation and highlighted the peculiarities of Indian political scenario which delighted that Indian problems are not an national problem rather it is an international problem. India in Asia is miniature. So, it should be resolved in this sence.
“India is not a nation rather it is inhabitated by more than one nation. The unit of Indian society is not territorial as in Europian countries. India is a continent of human groups belonging to different races, speaking different languages and professing different religions”. He argued that the process of European democracy can not apply to India without recognizing the facts of communal groups. Islam in India made Indian muslims something more than a community, a nation.
“Instead they are the only people who can fitly be described as a nation in the sense of word”. He further said “the Hindu though ahead of Muslims in all walks of life, have not yet been able to achieve the kind of homogeneity which is necessary for a nation which Islam has given Indian Muslim as free gift. Iqbal rejected the proposal of any form of unitary state. The idea of a united state in which various sections of Indian population would have to sub-merge their cultural individuality was unthinkable in the existing circumstances.
3) Then he raised the question that whether it is possible to accept Islam as an ethical idea and rejected it in favor of a polity in which religious attitude was not allowed or permitted to play any role? Then he answered this question in negative. Then all the arguments of separatism revolve around this contention. Therefore, the construction of polity on national line, it meant the displacement of Islamic principles of solidarity was simply unthinkable to muslims. Then he proposed his own solution. According to his solution the life of Islam as a cultural force in this country was very much dependent on its centralization in this specific territory. He was very much concerned with the survival of Muslims that how the cultural individuality could be resented. “I would like to see Punjab, NWFP, Sindh and Balochistan amalgamated into a single state” he described.
SIGNIFICANCE
1) It provided an unapologetic unambiguous illustration of two nation theory. In his Alaabad address he unapologically expounded the two nation theory which had been vaguely suggested by Sir Syed and others.
2) Iqbal was first to clearing or formulating the theory of necessity of creation of a separate state.
3) It was regarded as mile stone as it provided great impetus and Muslim nationalism in subsequent years which found vigorous manifestation in the demand of Lahore resolution.
4) The significance of Allahabad address is further enhanced by the fact that it was propounded by a personality of Iqbal's stature. Moreover it was presented from a popular platform of all India Muslim league. The previous proposals could not get popular imagination as they were not propounded through a popular platform.
5) Another significance of Allahabad address is that it led to the popularity of partition proposal. As is evident from the fact that numerous or incessant partition proposal were presented after Allahabad address in 1930-1940s. for instance Ch. Rehmat Ali’s scheme (now or never), Sir Sikandar Hayat, Sardar Aurangzaib, Sindh Assembly’s resolution of 1938,Lahore resolution which showed that number of people started thinking on the same line.
6) Through this proposal Iqbal presented a revival solution of Hindu Muslim conflict in the sub-continent in terms of two state solution. This solution could only guarantee the peaceful co-existence of these two communities in the sub-continental context.
7) Another significance of Allahabad address is that it may be categorized as a very realistic partition proposal, as the present state of Pakistan roughly comprise those areas identified by Iqbal in his Allahabad address.
ANALYSIS
According to Sharif ul Mujahid, “Iqbal sought to resolve the conflicts inherent in nationalism-panislamism dichotomy through formation of a synthetic concept of Muslim nationalism. It was a cross between the two competing ideologies, territorialism and pan-islamism. Muslim nationalism claims attributes of both but varying measures while the structural opputuriance
CRITICISM
1) Allahabad address was criticized an account that Iqbal was not clear in his pronouncement as he mentioned separate state twice but recurrent theme of his demand was federation within a federation. This controversy became more explicit when Iqbal try to disassociate himself from the concept of separate state while writing letter his friends. He wrote to Advert Thomson on 4th March,1934 from Lahore “you call me prognast in scheme called Pakistan. Now Pakistan is not my scheme. My mentioned scheme was accumulation of Islamic majority provinces in sub continent while demanding Pakistan is a separate federation. (then on 6 march Raghab Hasan-same context)
2) Excluding of Ambala division, Ambala was Muslim division with Hindus but he excluded it.
3) Non mentioning of Muslim Bengal. He did not mention East Bengal having a majority of muslims in it and faces many a difficulties in way of Islam by
CONCLUSION
The protagonists of Iqbal defend him on account that if he subsequently disown Pakistan scheme it has obvious reasons.
1) Demand of a separate state had not yet been adopted by league as its official policy whereas Iqbal has persecuted proposal in his personal capacity.
2) Iqbal was not originator of Pakistan scheme. It was propounded by Choudhary Rehmat Ali; therefore, he try to clarify his position by disassociation himself from concept of separate state.
On the other hand Iqbal's conception of Pakistan became more and more clear in the coming years of sub-continent as it is evident from his statement in 1933, his Endeavour to convince Jinnah in 1936-1937. This was led Manawar Mirza and Mukhtar Zaman to infest that Iqbal's Allahabad address defiantly contained the spirit of Pakistan if not its name.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to khuram_khokhar For This Useful Post:
Fozu (Wednesday, October 21, 2015), sasoli (Thursday, December 30, 2010), shrd (Tuesday, October 26, 2010)
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
development of pakistan press since 1947 Janeeta Journalism & Mass Communication 15 Tuesday, May 05, 2020 03:04 AM
Very Important : How to Prepare Study Notes Shaa-Baaz Tips and Experience Sharing 5 Sunday, May 21, 2017 08:30 PM
Heads of State, President, Prime Minister and Cabinet Members Sureshlasi International Relations 29 Saturday, July 28, 2012 11:38 AM
indo-pak relations atifch Current Affairs 0 Monday, December 11, 2006 09:01 PM


CSS Forum on Facebook Follow CSS Forum on Twitter

Disclaimer: All messages made available as part of this discussion group (including any bulletin boards and chat rooms) and any opinions, advice, statements or other information contained in any messages posted or transmitted by any third party are the responsibility of the author of that message and not of CSSForum.com.pk (unless CSSForum.com.pk is specifically identified as the author of the message). The fact that a particular message is posted on or transmitted using this web site does not mean that CSSForum has endorsed that message in any way or verified the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message. We encourage visitors to the forum to report any objectionable message in site feedback. This forum is not monitored 24/7.

Sponsors: ArgusVision   vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.