@Umair

I had sent you email straightaway. May be it went to your junk mail folder. Please check that.

@Amin

Your preference list seems good except for Customs which I definitely view as better than Railways & Postal.

Salam to every 1, can any body give me detail abt FSP, in terms of Power, salry, Chances of geting employed in Paki embassy inn sm othr country??? and what kind of group is Office managment???

@Sandhurst:

You are right Sir.!!!! I have got your email. Thats so nice of you Sir.

Regards

__________________
38th Common
Inland Revenue Service

Refernece: The Nation
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-ne...vice-FBR-chief
He (Chairman FBR) said that the Custom and Excise Group would be named Pakistan Custom Service after establishment of Service and if all officers of both the groups joined the Service, the new service to be named Pakistan Revenue Service.
The Chairman FBR said, “We have constituted an anomaly committee comprising Additional Secretary, Chairman FBR, Additional Secretary Law and Justice Division.” He said the committee would decide about the promotion of officers.
He said that nearly 900 to 1,000 FBR officers, most of them from Income Tax Group, expressed their desire to join the service. He added that 20 among those officers were from the Customs Group.

Reference: Dawn
http://news.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...administration

The IRS, according to FBR officials, has been created by the Establishment Division in accordance with terms of an agreement between the government and the World Bank. All the officers have been given the option of joining the IRS or not. On September 28, which was the deadline for submission of the options, almost 900 income tax officers (82 per cent) favoured joining the IRS but only 16 out of 50 Customs officers were willing to join it.

Analysis:
1. U said 57 Custom Officers went for IRS but Chairman is saying there are only 16. please jin k sath aap rehte han un se pooch len k exact figure kya ha n let us know the exact figure FOR MY INFORMATION.
2. Chairman said when will all officers accept the IRS then this service will be called as Pakistan Revenue Service. It means this is not the case of some officers. Most of the Custom Officers & some of Income Tax (as figure is that 82% accepted IRS) has rejected it. it is clear that even Income Tax infrastructure (currently) is not better than Customs then why 18% of Income Tax Officers were forceably dissolved into IRS through establishment order. Baqi Customs ki to baat hi different ha k more than 75% officers are still in the Customs. Is liye mane kaha tha k sir kindly un 75% ko aap samjha k aaen k yaar itni bari ghalti ku kar rahe acceptance na de kar.
3. IRS ek kari ha devolution of power n authority ki FBR man. isi wajah se Customs jin ko ek distinct jaga mili hui ha wo khona nahi chahate.
baqi jis bande k paas poor infrastructure ho jese Income Tax man tha wo to bhage jaenge na jab unko kaha gaya k IMF & WB will give some funds for its development.
So baat ghoom phir k wahin pe agai ha.. k give some exact comments of those 18% officers of Income Tax Officers (who were forceably inducted into IRS) and 75% Customs Officers who are still in their Service.
Or mere khayal man sir aap best man han ku k aap to roz un se milte han..
Plzzzzzzzzzzz guide us.. take care.

@ mb dharejo
thanks a lot bro. for posting it ..as i already know this whole true information regarding customs and IRS but coudnot share it here due to lack of time.its very true that very few customs oficer opted for IRS...
@sandhurst
pls dont spread wrong and bookish information....to misguide others.
bsos real figures are much different than yours....
PLZ JIN SAY MILTAY HAIN ..UNSAY TRUE AND REAL INFO LAY KR ...SHARE KRAIN....THANKS

@mb raja dharejo

You have taken a long time in replying to my posts and still you have relied on out-dated news stories to support your arguments and concocted new matters due to your lack of understanding of administrative reform within the the FBR which were never previously discussed.

At paragraph 5, Establishment Division's Office Memorandum No. F.6/2/2009-CP-II dated 12.09.2009 under which IRS was created, states and I quote, "..., the Income Tax Officers not opting for the new service, will remain in the existing Income Tax Group which will be a defunct and dying cadre without any future intake."

It goes without saying that options given to the Income Tax Officers was a legal requirement but it was expected that almost all Income Tax Officers would opt for IRS because IRS is much better than former Income Tax Group and as far as my information is concerned, all of them did. This is the reason that when the lists of Officers who had joined IRS were announced, no separate list of any officer remaining in the defunct Income Tax Group was announced. Since, no one remained in the defunct group, it ceased to exist.

We have never discussed the issue of Pakistan Revenue Service (PRS) before. Without any doubt, majority of customs officers did not opt for IRS, which meant that PRS could not be created. The reason was that the junior batches comprising of 33rd to 36th common which form the bulk of strength in Customs, as a block voted against joining IRS because of their lack of knowledge about service issues whereas most of their seniors were in favour of creation of Pakistan Revenue Service because they were of the opinion that without sales tax and federal excise, Customs would lose its charm and powers and this is exactly what has happened.

I am unable to attach the list of Customs Officers who have joined IRS issued through an FBR Notification because of the file size. However the Notification No. is 2407-M-IA/2010 dated 15.11.2010. The precise final number of officers who have formally joined the IRS is 47 which includes 1 officer of BS-21, 16 from BS-20, 18 from BS-19, 9 from BS-18 and 3 from BS-17. This number is nevertheless closer to the number of 57 cited previously by me rather than your figure of 16. Any individual who has worked for a department develops a particular affiliation with that department or group. So, it was a big achievement for IRS to attract such a high number of officers in senior ranks from Customs.

In fact the news story you have cited says: only 16 out of 50 Customs officers were willing to join it, which is laughable because in recent memory customs has never become such a small group that it had only 50 officers.

I can also inform you that more than 60/70 officers of Customs including senior officers like Ali Salman Abbasi (who did not opt for IRS) are presenly working in Inland Revenue Department posted at RTO Lahore as Commissioner Enforcement because there are no posts available for them in Customs. You can verify this by visiting RTO, Lahore.

Lastly, I am attaching the sanctioned cadre strength for both groups and readers can themselves judge from there which group is better. The number of posts in BS-21 for IRS is 44. This has now risen to 46 after creation of RTO-II and RTO-III in Karachi (This file size was small so it could be attached easily). Not even District Management Group has such a high number of sanctioned BS-21 positions available to its officers. From the sheer numbers of officers in BS-21 belonging to IRS, it is quite clear which group is dominating and will dominate FBR in the foreseeable future.

As for dr adnan rana, I do not think that the remarks made by him merit any comment from me.

Attached Files

2412-M-IA-2010-cadre strength.pdf (17.1 KB, 347 views)

For further clarification, the news stories cited by mb raja dharejo are from October and November 2009 which are clearly out-dated in terms of developments since then. The IRS group came into being on 15 November 2010 and the precise number of Customs Officers that have joined IRS was notified on that date.

1. These figures were given by Chairman FBR, agar aap unki figures pe hans sakte han to hamari kia majal. As far as ur figures are concerned these are contradictary to each other as well. Pehle kuch or ab kuch or. Shayad kal aap teesri figure le aaen.
2. Or aap ne kaha k most of the officers of Customs (33-35 batch) didnt join it. Chalen shukar ha aap ne ye mana to sahi. man kab se ye keh raha hun unhon ne join ku nahi kia????? un se mil k bataen??? lekn aap to ek reason bhi nahi de rahe k un k is stand ki waja kia ha??? These all are CSP officers of higher group. With sorry figure lekn kehna par raha ha k Kya un man itni bhi aqal nahi thi k FBR man hone k bawahood unko faraq nazar nahi aya. Kindly logon ko un k reasons aap bataen ta k har cheez saaf hojae. aap IRS ki tareefen karte han, me bhi kehta hun it will be a better group than Income Tax Group, Far better than it. lekn jo tareef wo officer karte han is k baare man or wo ku nahi jana chah rahe, wo plz bata den. or fesla doosron pe chor den. aap k sath mera point of opinion ka to faraq ho sakta ha lekn koi larai to nahi. achi baat ha discussion se cheezen saamne aati han.
3. Or baat doosri taraf ja rahi ha k cadre strength ki baat to ha hi nahi. there is point k IRS or PCS? U can opt IRS (if it developed so rapidly) after joining PCS. but it will be really difficult after joining IRS and then to PCS. So currently PCS is a better option. Ku k abhi aap ne ja k BS-17 man lagna ha. or IRS k paas koi well developed infrastructures (facilities) nahi han. lek wohi facilities customs walon ko aram se mil jati han. 8-10 years Customs man raho BS-19 tak puhancho, facilities enjoy karo phr agar dil chahta ha (or khud dekho realities ko) to IRS k darwaze to har waqt khule han. lekn IRS k future se expectations laga kr suhane khuwab dekhna k ye hojaega ye hojaega is not a good thing.
4. Let the people decide which thing is right. We should not impose our opinions on the people.
take care.

dear we r not comparing INCOM TAX with IRS...

so pls stick to main topic..right..

i,ve met many DCs of both CUSTOMS and IRS personaly to clear this point...ALL said that IRS ka ye sub kuch abi papers main hay....it,ll b better option in future(AFTER YEARS)..currently PCS is better without any doubt..

so pls in paper work say niklain aur field main ja kr kisi say pochain...

apnay tou CADRE STRENGTH MAIN DMG KO B PEECHAY CHOR DYA....KYA KEHNAY HAIN ..

@mb raja dharejo

U keep on making ridiculous arguments and jumping from one point to another without any continuity or flow of thought.

1. I have cited primary source documents which I have obtained from FBR while your research is internet restricted and that is why you have cited news stories which cannot be relied upon. Your non-acceptance of my figures is surprising. My figures are not contradictory but they were not accurate previously whereas your figures are totally based on rumours floated in the media at the time options were being given in November 2009, hence unreliable.

2. Most of the officers from Customs from 33rd to 36th Common did not join and the reason for their non-joining has been provided by me in my earlier post. Yes, they are repenting it very much now that they did not join en block and create PRS because many of them are posted in RTOs where they are being treated as second class officers as all good posts are occupied by IRS Officers. Instead of questioning me, can you please answer whether their seniors were fools that they joined IRS?

3. To clarify things further, no customs officer can now join IRS. The group has been created and the exercise of options is final. No one else can opt for it now. Only those future officers who will belong to 38th Common on joining CSA and did not previously have the chance to exercise their options may be given an opportunity until a certain cut-off date to do the same. I take strong exception to your following comment:

"8-10 years Customs man raho BS-19 tak puhancho, facilities enjoy karo phr agar dil chahta ha (or khud dekho realities ko) to IRS k darwaze to har waqt khule han."


The doors for IRS were open for a limited period of time when the group was being created. Now they are closed for everyone except perhaps for those PCS officers of 38th Common who previously did not have this opportunity as their service had not commenced. Future induction can only be through the normal interplay of preferences and the merit determined at the time of CSS. Therefore, I suggest that you do not mislead the readers of this thread by spreading unnecessary propoganda. IRS is not like Secretariat Group jisske darwaze her qat khule rehtay hain.

Being an officer of PAAS who is yet to join CSA, it seems pointless for me to continue arguing with you on a matter which is purely FBR-related.