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  #11  
Old Friday, January 06, 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamidullah Gul View Post
awwalan ye ke aaj tak mujhe ye anddaza nhe tha ke Ghalib ka Tassuf ke sath be koi ta'aluq tha, mere nazdik Ghalib ka Tassauf se wahi rishta tha jo Akbar Ilah abaddi ka College se tha.
Ap ki is baat k jawab me, mei Galib ka hi aik sher kahnga,
Ye Masayil e Tasawwuff, Ye Tera Bayan Galib,
Tujhe Ham Walii Samajhte Jo na Bada-Khwar Hota


Aik aur jaga per bhi Mirza kehte hain,
Aate hain Gaeb se ye mazameen khayal main
Galib sareer e khama Nawa e Saroosh hai..


Ye do ashaar Galib k Tasawwuff ko wazeh tor per zahir karte hain..

Quote:
Originally Posted by siddiqui88 View Post
Ap kesay keh sktay hain k khuda k maadi wajood nahe? Insan Mareekh tk zaroor pohncha hai, lakin abi tk Milky Way se b agay ni ja ska Abi bohat kuch sar basta hai is kainaat me. Kaun dawa kar skta hai k khuda ka wajood kesa hai?

Farah Zafar's explanation is quite logical. She is not professing any of these schools of thought here, she just propounded what Ghalib would have had meant. Wahdatul Wajood aur Wahdatu Shahood do mukhtalif school of thought hain, khaliq aur makhlooq k taluq k baray me. Boht se classical shora nay apnai shairi me in per izhaar e khayal kia hai. ziada tar qudmaa wahdatul wajood k qail thay.
mere azeez, aap shayad jante honge k Khuda k lye wajood ka hona farz karne ka matlab he k vo fani(mortal) hai, kiun k har vo cheez jo maddi wajood rakhti haios ne fana hona hai.. aur aksar madda me rooh hoti hai, aur Khuda ne khud Quraan e majeed me kaha hai k "har zee-rooh ko moat ka zayiqa chakhna hai..".. even bejan cheezun me bhi aik tarah se rooh hai, jesa k un k atoms aur molecules me sub-atomic particles ka harkat me hona.. aur Khuda agar wajood rakhta hai to nazar bhi aasakta hai..Khuda agar wajood rakhta hai to os se dosri cheezun ka comparison bhi kiya ja sakta hai, os se bari cheez b ho sakti hai.. Khuda k lye wajood aur adad(number) ka tasawwar karna hi shirk hai.. aur jab Khuda ka koi wajood nae matlab jism nae to koi ye dawa kar bhi nae sakta k Khuda ka wajood esa hai ya wesa hai.. aur agar dawa kar bhi lay to vo sirf dawa hi rahe ga, os ka haqiqat se koi talluq nae hoga..
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Last edited by marwatone; Tuesday, January 17, 2012 at 02:34 AM. Reason: Posts merged.
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  #12  
Old Friday, January 06, 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da skeptic View Post
@farah zafar
one minute janab.. Jab galib ye kehta hai k kuch nahi tha to khuda tha aur kuch na hota to khuda hota.. Aur os k baad ye kayinat khalq hvi aur is kayinat k sath me b khalq hva.. Is ka matlab ye to nahi k khuda ne apne wajood se ye kayinat banai he, matlab ye kayinat khuda k vajood ka aik tukra hai.. Mere hisab se esa tab ho sakta jab khuda ka maddi (material) wajood hota.. Tab hi ham os k hisse b farz kar sakte the.. Jab esa nahi hai to ye kese ho sakta hai k galib kahe k agar me khalq na hota to khuda k wajood ka hissa hota? Even in abstract sense this explanation seems suspicious to me.. Aap kiya kehti hain??
@farah zafar
aur galib jab ye kehta hai k na hota me to kiya hota, yahan pe mere hisab se vo sawal nahi poch raha balki sawaliya andaz me keh raha hai k ek mere na hone se kiya farq per jata? Kuch nahi.. Jab aagaz aur anjaam donu khuda he, jab os ki zaat ko kayinat k hone ya na hone se koi farq nae parta.. Vo kayinat se pehle b tha aur baad me b rahe ga, to phir mujhe kiun banaya, mjhe na khalq kerne se kiya farq per jata, mujhe to is hone ne, is wajood ne, is zindagi ne boht masayil paeda kiye, boht dukh diye.. Mujhe is hone ne daboya.. Behter yahi tha k me na hota.. Kiun k galib k nazdeek zindagi aur gham donu lazim o malzoom hain..

Qaed e hayat o band e gham, asl me donu aik hain,
moat se pehle admi, gham se njat paye kiun..!

گو کہ صدیقی نے اس کی وضاحت کر دی ہے پھر بھی میں روشنی ڈالے دیتی ہوں ۔ آپ ان دو نظریات کا مطالعہ کریں ،وحدت الوجود اور وحدت الشہود ۔ پھر آپ کو میری تشریح سمجھ آۓ گی ۔ یہ بہت مشہور نظریات ہیں ۔ اگر آپ نے تاریخ کا مطالعہ کیا ہو تو آپ کو شائد علم ہو کہ مجدد الف ثانی نے وحدت الوجود کے خلاف آواز اٹھائ تھی ۔ کیونکہ اس نظریے سے ہندو مت کے پرچاروں کی بو آتی تھی۔ جس کے مطابق ہندؤوں کی چار ذاتیں شودر ،کھشتری وغیرہ وغیرہ بھگوان کے سر ،پاؤں ،بازؤوں وغیرہ سے بنی ہیں ۔ گویا انسان خدا کے وجود کا ہی ایک حصہ ہے ۔
تو غالب نے اس نظریۓ کا استعمال اس لیے کیا کیونکہ یہ پہلے سے موجود تھا ،غالب نے پیش نہیں کیا تھا

سو باتوں کی ایک بات ، اس کے الفاظ پہ غور کریں ، ڈبویا مجھ کو ہونے نے ۔ ۔ ۔گویا اس کا وجود اس کے لیے خوشی کا باعث نہیں بلکہ اس کا عدم وجود اس کے لیے فخر کا باعث ہوتا ۔ ۔ ۔کہ اس صورت میں وہ خدا کا ایک حصہ ہوتا

Quote:
Originally Posted by siddiqui88 View Post
@ farah
i agree with your explanation. But here you are a bit mistaken; you have taken wadatul wajood" for "wahdat u shahood". Wahdatul wajood means "khuda aur kainaat ek hain[/font]" (lughwi maani pe ghor kren). Wahdatushahood means " kainaat ki her shay khuda k wajood ki gawahi deti hai. So it is wahdatul wajood which can be said,has been propounded here.
بالکل درست کہ رہی ہو ۔ مجھے لکھنےکے بعد پتا لگ گیا تھا کہ غلطی کر بیٹھی ۔ میں ابھی درخواست کرتی ہوں موڈز سے کہ اسے درست کر دیں ۔

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamidullah gul View Post
miss farah aap ki tashreeh agr che zuban o bayan ke lehaz se aala he but it has created big confusion in my mind. Aap ne is sher ki tashreeh jis zawiaye se ki he mera nhe khyal ke ghalib ne us zawiay se ye sher likha he, awwalan ye ke aaj tak mujhe ye anddaza nhe tha ke ghalib ka tassuf ke sath be koi ta'aluq tha, mere nazdik ghalib ka tassauf se wahi rishta tha jo akbar ilah abaddi ka college se tha. Dosra ye ke aap ne sher ke dosray misray ko ziada ahmiyat nhe di, meri naqis raye me is sher ka dosra misra ziada ahm he aur ye sher bhe ghalib ke un kai ashhar me se aik he jo aam fehm hen.
مجھے حیرت ہوئ یہ جان کے کہ آپ یہ سمجھتے ہیں کہ غالب کا تصوف سے کوئ تعلق نہیں ؟ ضروری نہیں کہ شراب نوشی کرنے والا فلسفے اور تصو ف سے بھی دور ہو ۔

دیکھیے ذرا مثالیں؛

جب کہ تجھ بن نہیں کوئ موجود
پھر یہ ہنگامہ اے خدا کیا ہے ؟

ـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

بازیچہ اطفال ہے دنیا میرے آگے

ہوتا ہے شب و روز تماشا میرے آگے
ــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

نظر میں ہے ہماری،جادہ راہ فنا غالب

کہ یہ شیرازہ ہے عالم کے اجزائ پریشاں کا

ــــــــــــــــــ

اسے کون دیکھ سکتا کہ یگانہ ہے وہ یکتا

جو دوئ کی بو بھی ہوتی تو کہیں دو چار ہوتا

ــــــــــــــــــــــــ
میں نے شعر کے دوسرے مصرعے کو ہی تو اہمیت دی ہے ۔ ڈبویا مجھ کو ہونے نے ۔ سارا فلسفہ ان الفاظ میں ہے۔ جیسے میں کہوں ڈبویا مجھ کو سی ایس ایس کے بغیر تیاری پیپر دینے نے ۔ ۔ ۔ تو فورا آپ سمجھ جائیں گے کہ دوسری بات جو میں نے کہی نہیں وہ دراصل کیا ہے ۔
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  #13  
Old Saturday, January 07, 2012
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bohat shukriya sb logon ka,
ab mjhaywehdat-us-shahood aur wehdat-ul-wajood ki exact english translation bhi bata skta hai koi??
aur is shair ka matlab?

دام ہر موج میں ہے حلقہ صد کام نہنگ
دیکھیں کیا گزرے ہے قطرے پہ گہر ہونے تک
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  #14  
Old Saturday, January 07, 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eager View Post
aur is shair ka matlab?

دام ہر موج میں ہے حلقہ صد کام نہنگ
دیکھیں کیا گزرے ہے قطرے پہ گہر ہونے تک
agar salees urdu me bayan kiya jae to kuch yun hoga k
pani ki har leher k jaal me saekrun magarmachun k munh k halqe ya shikanje hain,
dekhye k pani k qatre per moti/gohar banne tak kiya guzarti hai..

matlab zindagi me har taraf aazmayishen aur museebaten munh khole admi k intizar me hain, aur daekhna ye he k konsa admi in se sabr aur hosla k sath guzarta hai.. aur jo himmat jawan rakhe ga aur tamam masayil se sabit qadmi se guzre ga to vo phir ek gohar ki manind hoga.. qeemti aur anmol.. qatre ko gohar banne tak saenkrun magarmachun k munh se bachna hota hai, isi tarah admi ko kamal e insaniat ya apne maqsad k husool me boht si rukawatun se guzarna parta hai..
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  #15  
Old Saturday, January 07, 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Skeptic View Post
mere azeez, aap shayad jante honge k Khuda k lye wajood ka hona farz karne ka matlab he k vo fani(mortal) hai, kiun k har vo cheez jo maddi wajood rakhti haios ne fana hona hai.. aur aksar madda me rooh hoti hai, aur Khuda ne khud Quraan e majeed me kaha hai k "har zee-rooh ko moat ka zayiqa chakhna hai..".. even bejan cheezun me bhi aik tarah se rooh hai, jesa k un k atoms aur molecules me sub-atomic particles ka harkat me hona..aur Khuda agar wajood rakhta hai to nazar bhi aasakta hai..aur Khuda agar wajood rakhta hai to nazar bhi aasakta hai..Khuda agar wajood rakhta hai to os se dosri cheezun ka comparison bhi kiya ja sakta hai, os se bari cheez b ho sakti hai..
Zroori nhe k zindagi,rooh, jandaar aur bejaan ka tasawur mehz itna he hai jitna hman smjh ata hai. Hum apni aqal aur hawas e khamsa ki bunyad per us baray me b nazriyat qaim kr letay hain jin k baray me jan'na hmaray ikhtiyar se bahir hota hai.Kia apko ni lagta hmari soch, aqal aur hawaas bht mehdood hain?in k daira e ikhtiyar se bahir kia hai koun janta hai?

Islami taleemat kehti hai k farishtay Allah k takht ko uthay hoay hain(kon janay 'Takht" ks cheez ka istiara hai?) ijram e falki aur tmam tar makhlooqat us ka tuwaaf krtay hain. Science kehti hai k tmam galaxies, nebulas, sb kuch bht bray aur bht roshan markaz k gird chakar lga rha hai, kon jany yahen khuda ho? koun janay ye b mehz us ki takhleeq ho? Science kehti hai k kainat mehdood hai aur uska daira10 over 25km tk hai. kon janay us se bahir kia hai?Kon janay khuda is k andar hai,bahir hai ya dono traf? kia ap ,me ya koi b is ka faisla kr skta hai?to us k wajood k jamid ya mujarrid honay k baray me faisla hum kesay kar sktay hain?kon janay wo jaamid hai mujarrid ya is se b agay ki koi cheez.jandaar, be jaan aur rooh k apnay mehdood ilm ko hum us hasti pe kesay laago ker sktay hain jo hmaray idraak se bahir hai?
Emaan ye hai k hum us k honay aur EK honay ko maanen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Skeptic View Post
Khuda k lye wajood aur adad(number) ka tasawwar karna hi shirk hai..
Allah nay khud apnay liye adad istemaal kia hai aur wo adad hai "1"( keh do k Allah ek hai). Is adad se agay berhna (2,3,4...) Shirk hai, aur is se peechay hatna(0) Ilhaad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Skeptic View Post
aur jab Khuda ka koi wajood nae matlab jism nae to koi ye dawa kar bhi nae sakta k Khuda ka wajood esa hai ya wesa hai.. aur agar dawa kar bhi lay to vo sirf dawa hi rahe ga, os ka haqiqat se koi talluq nae hoga..
Wahdatul Wajood aur Wahdatu Shahood dono me he hmen zaat e bari taala ko smjhnay ki justajoo nazar ati hai. Agar shoraa kram nay in me se ksi ko apnay ifkaar me pesh kia hai aur hum us ki wazaahat krtay hain tou uska ye matlb nhe k hum us nuqta nazar ki perwi b kr rahay hain.

Doosri baat ye k shairi ko her ek apnay andaz se lay skta hai, agr wo mantaqi nuqta nazar he to qabil e taref hai. Me bazaat e khud usi tanazur me ghalib k is sher ko dekhti hn jo jo me nay apni post me likha. Farah's perspective is agreeable as it is logical.thats it.
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  #16  
Old Saturday, January 07, 2012
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Iqbaal nay insaani hadood aur khuda tk pohnchnay k safar ko bht khoob soorat andaz me pesh kia hai:

Apni jolaa gaah zer e aasman smjha tha main,
Aab o gil k khel ko apna jahan smjha tha main,

Karwan thak ker fza k pech o kham me reh gaya,
Mehr o maah o mushtari ko hum unaan smjha tha main,

Ishq ki ek jast ny tay kr dia qissa tmaam,
Is zameen o aasman ko be kraan smjha tha main...
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  #17  
Old Saturday, January 07, 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eager View Post
ab mjhaywehdat-us-shahood aur wehdat-ul-wajood ki exact english translation bhi bata skta hai koi?
Wahdat-us-shahood...apparetism/unity of witness
Wahdat-ul-wajood...unity of existence/being
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  #18  
Old Monday, January 09, 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siddiqui88 View Post
Islami taleemat kehti hai k farishtay Allah k takht ko uthay hoay hain(kon janay 'Takht" ks cheez ka istiara hai?) ijram e falki aur tmam tar makhlooqat us ka tuwaaf krtay hain. Science kehti hai k tmam galaxies, nebulas, sb kuch bht bray aur bht roshan markaz k gird chakar lga rha hai, kon jany yahen khuda ho? koun janay ye b mehz us ki takhleeq ho? Science kehti hai k kainat mehdood hai aur uska daira10 over 25km tk hai. kon janay us se bahir kia hai?Kon janay khuda is k andar hai,bahir hai ya dono traf? kia ap ,me ya koi b is ka faisla kr skta hai?to us k wajood k jamid ya mujarrid honay k baray me faisla hum kesay kar sktay hain?kon janay wo jaamid hai mujarrid ya is se b agay ki koi cheez.jandaar, be jaan aur rooh k apnay mehdood ilm ko hum us hasti pe kesay laago ker sktay hain jo hmaray idraak se bahir hai?
Emaan ye hai k hum us k honay aur EK honay ko maanen.



Allah nay khud apnay liye adad istemaal kia hai aur wo adad hai "1"( keh do k Allah ek hai). Is adad se agay berhna (2,3,4...) Shirk hai, aur is se peechay hatna(0) Ilhaad....

Wahdatul Wajood aur Wahdatu Shahood dono me he hmen zaat e bari taala ko smjhnay ki justajoo nazar ati hai. Agar shoraa kram nay in me se ksi ko apnay ifkaar me pesh kia hai aur hum us ki wazaahat krtay hain tou uska ye matlb nhe k hum us nuqta nazar ki perwi b kr rahay hain.

Doosri baat ye k shairi ko her ek apnay andaz se lay skta hai, agr wo mantaqi nuqta nazar he to qabil e taref hai. Me bazaat e khud usi tanazur me ghalib k is sher ko dekhti hn jo jo me nay apni post me likha. Farah's perspective is agreeable as it is logical.thats it.
Pehli baat to ye hai k mere ilm me esa kch nahi k Islam ye kehta ho k Allah ka koi takht hai aur Farishte ose uthaye hve hote hain.. mere azeez, kiya Islam ye nahi kehta k Khuda hr jaga Mojod hai? Ap ne to Khuda ko zaman o makan ki qaed me keh diya..
Dosri baat ye hai k Khuda ne apne liye 1 ka number kabhi use nae kiya.. Arabic se Urdu me translate karte hve 1 likha gaya hai.. Arabic me 1 ko "wahid" kaha jata hai, Khuda ne Quraan me ye nai kaha k "qul huwallahu wahid" balki ye kaha hai , "qul huwallahu ahad", wahid ka lafz nae use kiya, ahad ka lafz use kiya hai, jis k mani tanha aur akela k hain..
Teesri baat ye k mujhe is bat se koi ikhtilaf nahi k har kisi ka apna nuqta e nazar hota hai.. is tarah jo wazahat Farah ne ki hai wo un ka apna nuqta e nazar hai.. aur isi tarha mera b.. aur mujhe nae lagta k Galib ne Wehdat ul Wajood ya Wehdat ul Shahood k nazriye k hisab se vo she'r kaha ho kiun k Galib ne esi bat aur kaheen nae ki.. aur zaruri ye b nae k Galib ki bat aur koi nazriya aik jese lag rahe hoon to ye kaha jae k Galib ne vhi nazriya k tehet kaha ho.. lekin me janta hun k me jo keh raha hun ye b zaruri nae k durust ho.. magar meri mantiq yahi kehti hai..

Khuda Quraan me farmata hai,
"yani wo aisi zaat hai jo aasman me bhi mabood hai aur zameen me b aur wo hakeem o aleem hai" (Surat: Zakhraf, Aayat:84)

"Yani wo tumhare sath hai khwah tum jahaan b ho aur jo kuch tum karte ho Khuda os se aagah hai" (Surah: Hadeed, Ayat: 4)

"Yani aankhen ose nahi daekhtin lekin wo ankhun ko daekhta hai...." (Surah: An'aam, Aayat: 104)

"Yani tum mjhe hargiz nahi daekh sakte.....(Musa A.S ne) arz ki k Khudaya tu to is se munazza hai k ankh se daekha ja sake......." (Surah: A'raaf, Ayat: 143)

In tamam aayat ki roshni me keh raha hun k Khuda Jism nahi rakhta.. Beshak aql e insani os zaat tak nahi pohnch sakti, lekin me apni aql e aajiz o naqis ki baat nahi, Quran ki aayat paesh kar raha hun
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Last edited by marwatone; Tuesday, January 17, 2012 at 02:35 AM. Reason: Posts merged.
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@Farah
Garchi ye pochna yahan ajeeb lagta hai magar poch leta hun k jo Halqa e Arbab e Zoq ki website hai os me mjhe kaheen sign up kerne ya member banne ka option nahi mila.. ye mushkil kese door hogi??
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@Farah
Garchi ye pochna yahan ajeeb lagta hai magar poch leta hun k jo Halqa e Arbab e Zoq ki website hai os me mjhe kaheen sign up kerne ya member banne ka option nahi mila.. ye mushkil kese door hogi??
ap Facebook k page "halqa arbab e zauq" ki baat ker rahay hain tou ap website "arbabezauq" k right side pe diye gaye link "join us on facebook" ko click keren.Page khul jaye tou ooper "Like" ki option ho gi,usay click ker den.ap us k member ban jayen gy.ap ka facebook pe account hona zaroori hai.
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