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usman khalid Friday, March 25, 2011 12:00 AM

@mani1

If one performs well in a paper and result does not come out accordingly, it necessarily does not mean lack of knowledge/skills/preparation. You should know that FPSC sometimes targets a particular subject and punishes it badly. Same was the case with CSS Accounting and Auditing paper 2009. I personally know candidates scoring below 100 who scored 150+ in their earlier attempts even with less preparation. Although, I am not a an accounting expert but have studied this subject in my bachelors and masters. I don't think paper was as much difficult as you are pretending. If paper is lengthy, conceptual and questions are asked in a different way, it does not mean something too difficult or impossible. Candidates who get use to a particular style and format and don't consider alternative patterns while preparation may face difficulty in such type of paper. CSS Accounting paper may always not be as simple as B.Com. If B.Com style questions and easy objectives have been asked frequently in the exam, it does not mean that it should be considered consistent format and standard to be followed every year. Yes, I agree that objectives were lengthy and difficult to be completed within time. On the whole, this paper may be ranked in between 'difficult' and 'easy'.

Amir Shafique Friday, March 25, 2011 10:30 AM

@Mani

I second Raz on the income statement issue. Please don't get emotional and pay respect to others. You claim that you respect Raz but your tone was really disrespectful. The paper was a bit different from what they use to set. It was lengthy, specially the MCQs part.

zulfi215 Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:00 PM

DEAR MANI,

The Profit and loss account is also known as a "statement of profit and loss", an "income statement"(in US) or an "income and expense statement".

The difference you are emphasizing is related to type of industry i.e. Manufacturing or Services. Manufacturing Concerns term their income statement as P&L account as they have to show their cost of goods sold separately. In 2011 ACCS paper, the question was about a services business so they termed the statement as Income Statement.

Regards,

Zulfiqar Ali (MBA Finance)

mani1 Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:15 PM

[QUOTE=zulfi215;282538]DEAR MANI,

The Profit and loss account is also known as a "statement of profit and loss", an "income statement"(in US) or an "income and expense statement".

The difference you are emphasizing is related to type of industry i.e. Manufacturing or Services. Manufacturing Concerns term their income statement as P&L account as they have to show their cost of goods sold separately. In 2011 ACCS paper, the question was about a services business so they termed the statement as Income Statement.

Regards,

Zulfiqar Ali (MBA Finance)[/QUOTE]

Sir I agree with your point but what I am talking about is [B][U]Trading & Profit & Loss Account V/S Income Statement[/U][/B]. The former has a different format e.g. in Trading Account, Direct costs are all individually listed on LHS to arrive at a Gross Profit which is then included in the Profit & Loss Account where indirect costs are listed on LHS and indirect revenues on RHS to arrive at Net Income. On the other hand, in an income statement, Gross profit is directly arrived at after deducting COGS and a single column format is used unlike the Trading & P/L Account.

I have already said before that end result for both will be same (obviously) but their format and application is different, a fact which can be confirmed from B.Com books where separate chapters and questions are dedicated for both. [B]Plus you can contact any teacher/CA and he will tell you that you can not substitute Trading & P/L Account with Income statement and vice versa, since examiner has explicitly mentioned what he wants[/B]

[QUOTE=Amir Shafique;282033]@Mani

I second Raz on the income statement issue. Please don't get emotional and pay respect to others. You claim that you respect Raz but your tone was really disrespectful.[/QUOTE]

I know in my heart that I respect him and I do not need your certification. Secondly, please learn that disagreeing with someone or initiating a debate does not necessarily means disrespecting the other

[QUOTE=usman khalid;281978]@mani1

If one performs well in a paper and result does not come out accordingly, it necessarily does not mean lack of knowledge/skills/preparation. [/QUOTE]

Actually it does. Tests/Exams are specifically formulated to test the ability/aptitude/preparation of a candidate

[QUOTE=usman khalid;281978]
You should know that FPSC sometimes targets a particular subject and punishes it badly. Same was the case with CSS Accounting and Auditing paper 2009. I personally know candidates scoring below 100 who scored 150+ in their earlier attempts even with less preparation.[/QUOTE]

Do you have any proof of biasness of FPSC? If yes, please move the court of law so that your grievances may be addressed. If not, lets not debate on presumptions as I can put forward 100s of them too. If anyone scored less, its simply because he did not knew or was over-confident and made some mistake. There is no way examiner would unduly cut marks, especially in a mathematical paper like Accounting where you are either correct or wrong. Had it been a paper like History, I would have inclined towards your point of view but not in case of Accounting. Lets not base our debate on assumptions.

[QUOTE=usman khalid;281978]
Although, I am not a an accounting expert but have studied this subject in my bachelors and masters. I don't think paper was as much difficult as you are pretending. If paper is lengthy, conceptual and questions are asked in a different way, it does not mean something too difficult or impossible. [/QUOTE]

You are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone else, and I respect that. Let me clarify here that I am not against anyone's opinion but what I am against is imposing your opinion on someone else, especially when you yourself didn't even give the paper.

I personally felt that paper was hard, and I personally would value opinion of someone who actually gave the paper instead of someone who didn't. That does not however means that I do not respect your or Raz Bhai's opinion. I do; However I am against imposition of opinions. [B]Thats why I said that if anyone feels the paper is easy, kindly solve it and upload it for the benefit of all[/B]

Hope everything is clarified

usman khalid Sunday, March 27, 2011 12:10 AM

[QUOTE=mani1;282549]

Actually it does. Tests/Exams are specifically formulated to test the ability/aptitude/preparation of a candidate
[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on this point. But what I was talking about that bad result does not necessarily mean lack of preparation/skills etc. There may be many other factors involved. Do you think candidates scoring 700+ score in CSS and unfortunately failing a particular subject will have no aptitude? not prepared? and incompetent? Our examination and marking system has many shortcomings and CSS is no exemption to it.

[QUOTE=mani1;282549]
Do you have any proof of biasness of FPSC? If yes, please move the court of law so that your grievances may be addressed. If not, lets not debate on presumptions as I can put forward 100s of them too. If anyone scored less, its simply because he did not knew or was over-confident and made some mistake. There is no way examiner would unduly cut marks, especially in a mathematical paper like Accounting where you are either correct or wrong. Had it been a paper like History, I would have inclined towards your point of view but not in case of Accounting. Lets not base our debate on assumptions.

[/QUOTE]

I don't have any grievances in this regard as I am not a party to this Accounting Paper. However, what I have said about targeting a particular subject is not an individual opinion rather an opinion shared by many aspirants and qualifiers. Well, you are talking about Accouting being a mathematical subject which if done correctly gives good score. Let me remind you some other fact. History is not a mathematical subject in which you can score nearly full marks. But if you have seen the result of Islamic and Indopak histories in CSS 2009, you would notice that candidates scored as high as 188. Not a single candidate might have scored as high in Accounting paper that year. The candidate who scored 170 in Indopak history in 2009 managed to score only 89 in 2010. So this is not only about competency/attitude/prepardness, it is about the trend in a particular year, examiner marking the paper, complexity of the paper etc. it also depends upon luck also.

In 2010, Accounting also proved to be disastrous. A candidate whose both papers went great scored 87. After exams, he solved both paper and get it checked from an experienced accounting teacher of Punjab University who has been a paper setter in different exams. The teacher gave him overall score 170 but his actual was 87. He was very skilled, had great aptitude, and was well prepared but even then scored low despite of having easy accounting paper.

I respect difference of opinions. Every one may have his/her own opinion. I have just tried to emphasize what I have found to be factual and logical.

Amir Shafique Sunday, March 27, 2011 03:23 AM

@ mani

[QUOTE]With all due respect, people here know your own performance in 2009 paper. Written posts of yours are available saying how good your papers went but when the result came out you hardly scored any marks (less than 60% if I am correct)[/QUOTE]

If you call this respect than I can't argue. BTW I am not certifying anything. just want to say that Raz is correct about the income statement vs profit & loss account thing. It means the same.

mussaa Sunday, March 27, 2011 03:01 PM

Income statement and Trading/profit&loss account are used for the same purpose. the only difference is the difference of the format as one is made in the statement form and the other is made in T-shape format. If you are asked to make a statement then you can't make an account.
@ mani
bro never write these sort of lines.it doesn't reflect some good manners.

Ali Ahmad Syed Sunday, March 27, 2011 04:23 PM

Conceptual
 
Both the papers were conceptual. I have attempted and I am satisfied with the attempt. I could anticipate 130+ marks.

No doubt, the pattern was changed but papers were not difficult. The MCQs portion of first papers was lengthy, 30 minutes were proved short.

The subjective portion, at first glance, looked a mess but later as I proceed, That's proved really easy. Textual papers, you have to find the things in the questions and place them in the right slot, simply.

game awan Sunday, March 27, 2011 07:51 PM

@ Raz
well brother i am waiting when u would elaborate paper 2

game awan Sunday, March 27, 2011 08:00 PM

secondly all my respected seniors and my fellow aspirants for css 2011 any paper is tough as well as easy all depends on prep,luck and coping wid nerves ,to be honest paper was conceptual but a changed pattern where either choice was taken out of the equation as we saw in auditing portion to a high jump for taxation numerical in standard.Concepts matter but everyone goes through past papers to get an idea of whats going on so in comparison wid past there was a major shift in pattern and standard
all those lucky ones appearing in 2009 and 2010 come on friends you had some sweet candies while this year it was a bull ( a very tricky and angry bull)


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