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Sheeraz S Monday, April 18, 2011 10:15 PM

[QUOTE=Tassawur;290880][B][I]Yes arguments should have been there.
Moreover somewhat religious point of view though conservative , is encouraged.

One motive , I write in paper, behind this move has been the effort of lobby who has the hold on the business of cosmetics.
I read this in an article in Newsweek by an Egyptian cleric.
It said that as France is the largest exporter and producer of cosmetics . You know its representative city Paris is called the city of Fragrances. The cosmetic industry lobby has also played its part in bringing about imposition on veil.
As they considered that their move would encourage other countries to ban veil and cosmetic business would flourish as with veil cosmetic is less needed.

This was one of the reasons, not the basic or only reason.
But it would have been one of the reasons , I reckon.[/I][/B][/QUOTE]

LOL! Excuse me! This is conspiracy theory!

I am wondering that how in France 1500 Muslim womens' demand for consmatics would be profiteering to the extent that would make cosmetics industry as big corporate conglomerate? hahaha that's ridiculous logic from that cleric. BTW, how those women covering their faces would dare to show up with cosmetics on their face even if they are disallowed to wear burqa? And also mind it, that Burqa has been banned and not Hijaab. And there is no place of Burqa in Islam.

And also straighten your facts. That cleric/molvi claim that France is big importer or consumer of cosmetics is also laughable. India tops the list with maximum use of cosmetics. Hence, I am least surprised when Miss Worlds definitely hail from India.

Sheeraz S Monday, April 18, 2011 10:28 PM

[QUOTE=suman;290907]so.what about the freedom of speech of the minority?don’t they deserve this right?[/QUOTE]


Let us call spade a spade here!

What about the "holy" Saudi Arabia and Islamic Republic of Iran where there are certain mandatory observance for non-Muslims women? Where goes the freedom then? Even non-Muslims are not allowed in "holy" Saudi Arabia to practice their religion or even establishing their Churches, Temples, and Synagogues are Harraaam in our "Holy" Saudi Arabia. Would we dare to raise the voice of Freedom of Religion for Non-Muslim in these "Holy" Islamic Republics like Saudi Arabia and Iran??

I think here we Muslims have duplicity and show great deal of hypocrisy.

intelligentgal Monday, April 18, 2011 11:27 PM

no doubt we minhais-ul- qaum are hypocrites.

Islam does not make covering the face mandatory so a Muslim woman is allowed to let her face uncovered.

Sheeraz S Monday, April 18, 2011 11:29 PM

[QUOTE=intelligentgal;290977]no doubt we minhais-ul- qaum are hypocrites.

Islam does not make covering the face mandatory so a Muslim woman is allowed to let her face uncovered.[/QUOTE]

That's the spirit! There is nothing wrong in confession. Living in flat state of denial is dangerous.

FarazAli Tuesday, April 19, 2011 08:12 AM

Suman-no doubt wearing veil has so many advantages as it purges society of many evils. When France is concerned with her security it can take every step to secure the country regardless of wishes of minority. Here France would not be concerned with whose wishes should be accomodated. We (Pakistan) did exactly the same if we would face the same threat. Would u allow Christian and Jews to predominate our culture in Pakistan? Hhere your concern regarding freedom of preaching allowed to various religions is irrelevant.
Moreover if parliament is wrong, then what is the need of it? Why did people of France elect the parliament?

[QUOTE]Faraz, I never argued against ban on Burqa; instead, I vociferously advocated this new legislation, banning woman from masking their identity.

Guyz, I am entitled to my own views, so don't crucify me here on forum. Brief summary of my answer:

Societally, I feel the burqa represents dehumanizing of women. As if they are not but sexual objects and evil temptresses trying to test the virtue of men. It also infantilizes and degrades men, as if men are nothing more than crazed and hyper-sexed beings. Burqa/niqab strips away a woman's identity. Almost reminiscent of the names given to women in Handmaid's Tale (Offred, Ofglen) where her existence is based upon her valuation to a man.

Basically, the burqa reduces a woman to nothingness and it reduces men to nothing more than wanton animals. Pragmatically though, I support its ban because I think no one should be able to hide their identity in public. Masks are illegal in public places most of the time, why should an exception be made just for a special class of citizens?

There is a dire need to run an unrelenting campaign against Niqab/Burqa in Muslim countries and create awareness that Burqa symbolizes oppression and not a personal choice. Burqa should no longer be defined as symbol of piety or sanctity.

Burqa also polarizes women in a society; women wearing Burqa boasts of their self-righteousness whereas women without Burqa is not defined well in terms of morality in conservative Muslim societies. This is hallmark of France because in Islam their is no concept of Burqa or face covering.[/QUOTE]

Dear sheeraz I think u have deviated a little bit from the answer-v r discussing here burqa with particular reference to France. Nevertheless ur arguments r not fully irrelevant.

Well guys I justified France in the exam because France is not a land of the Muslim. It is land of non-muslims and they can legislate whatever they feel right. We cannot force them in legislating in favor of the muslim. If we force them then we ll ve to wage a war with every country which bans burqa. Islam does not allow force in preaching. Rather it enjoins to preach religion peacefully. In this situation we can peacefully preach to people of France on burqa. In my justification I quoted some references. One of my quotes was a fatwa issued by a renowned muslim scholar, I guess his name was imam Juma. When someone asked the imam whether selling wine by a Muslim in a non-muslim country is allowed in Islam. He replied positively.He said yes. Further in justification of his fatwa he quoted a fatwa issued by imam Hanfia. So guys when a muslim can sell wine in non-muslim country, then why muslim women cannot move freely without burqa in a non-muslim country? It is a need of an hour.jesa des wesa bhais.

Sheeraz S Tuesday, April 19, 2011 03:58 PM

Faraz,

Interesting article. Must read it.

[B]The burqa debate: “Burqa got a befitting French kiss” – by Marvi Sirmed[/B]

Before reading this argument on recent Burqa-ban by France, you need to know who I am. Raised in an orthodox Muslim Deobandi family, I’ve been educated in Pakistan’s Punjab where urban middle class used to be too sensitive about purdah in 1980s and 90s – the decades when I went to school and then university. Being first generation migrated out of the village in a big city, my father was a part of purdah sensitive educated middle class professional class. But my mother, raised and educated in a secular and Sufist Sindh, fought against Burqa throughout her life in order to save me from this ‘curse’ as she would put it.

Mom succeeded in this battle to the best of my luck and now no one expects her or me in Burqa or purdah in general. Despite being thoroughly religious, mildly ritualistic and overwhelmingly humanist in her viewpoint, I never saw he observing strict purdah. She would cover her head, although, while meeting with my father’s friends and serve them tea – a practice completely absent in my orthodox and backward paternal family. It’s because of her struggle that the family elders were never able to impose either Burqa or hijab – or even a chaddar – on me. All they required of me was to cover my head with traditional dopatta when I stepped out of house. My honest confession: I often cheated on them by just wearing it in their presence. But seeing my aunts and grandmother, I kept wondering all through my childhood, how must it feel to be continually imprisoned in a horrible thing called Burqa.

It has been and is my biggest relief to be among people who are sane enough to be against this practice of subjugating women through veil. But finding so many friends and fellow rights’ activists among those protesting France’s ban on Burqa is shocking and disappointing both. The anti-ban crowd comprises a range of viewpoints – from ardent Islamic, to moderate, to new-age Islam, to seculars, to antitheists and so on. Most heard argument from almost all of them has been their unflinching ‘concern’ for women’s choice and freedom to choose what they want to wear.

[B]To me, this strong sounding argument remains flawed, inconsistent and self-contradictory. How could a choice to commit suicide be that widely accepted? If your suicidal tendency is the result of certain frame of mind, experiences in life, is self-destroying and criminal, so is Burqa. When the society conditions your mind to willingly get subjugated and considering yourself ‘safe’ by hiding behind the veil, how is it a ‘free choice’? Most of the women passionately protesting the Burqa ban are heard saying they do it of their own free will because they feel safe. Well you can feel safe in Guantanamo Bay if you’re conditioned to feel safe that way.[/B]

[B]It is a slap on the face of a society where a woman can only feel safe if she hides herself, if she is invisible from public eye, if she conceals herself from the male eye. Stepping on the soil of any Muslim country in a dress of your choice save Burqa, is herculean for any woman. You want to wear a sleeveless top on a hot summer day and go out on the streets of Lahore or Dhakka, it would be appalling if not impossible like it is in most of middle eastern countries. Things would, however, be starkly different in Khatmandu, Kandy or Mumbai even if you put east versus west argument.[/B]

There’s a wide gulf between for and against Burqa arguments within Islamic scholars. Major disagreements exist on whether or not Burqa is an injunction of Quran. Even if it proves to be in the holy scriptures, it needs to be reviewed in the context of modern world where men are expected to have at least little hold on their libido, where women are not just sex objects whose unveiled presence in society would be dangerous for public morality.

At the risk of sounding Islamophob or racist against Muslims in west, I would strongly suggest to those who seem too concerned about women’s “freedom” to choose Burqa for themselves, to kindly go back to their countries of origin and fight for women’s choices there. A lot of women in these countries don’t have right to choose their spouse or profession let alone dress. Let us all fight for a free Muslim world where women are free to not wear Burqa. A polite reminder to all the women’s rights activists, of sickening bars on women’s choices in Muslim countries where they are coerced into adopting a life style no sensible male would ever choose for himself. Burqa can never be a free choice of anyone. Had it been, this choice would have been available to men also.

usman khalid Tuesday, April 19, 2011 05:02 PM

I am neither any advocate of burqa nor against it. It is a matter of personal choice. It is upto the woman whether she feels more comfortable or safer in pardah/burqah or without burqah. As far as Islam is concerned, It does not enforce woman to observe burqah system.. yeh if she observes this.. it may have some advantages for her.. what islam makes compulsory for woman is to cover her body properly with decent dress, chadar/dupatta etc.
But if some country bans burqa system where women observe it because they feel more secure/comfortable in it, It is against all laws of morality. It is against so called UN human rights. Now what if any muslim country bans wearing geans/pants for women for all non muslims. What if Pakistan bans christian nun to wear her particular dress? It is ridiculous. Shame on those who do this. No civilized country could infringe personal rights of individuals.

usman khalid Tuesday, April 19, 2011 07:16 PM

Believe me its not as easy as one may think... Things look quite simple when looked from a distance... Solving a CSS paper in examination hall is a real test of nerves and patience... one may even forget answers of easy questions at that time... Objective was not much easy... It was average... Some questions may even not be answerd at first sight by those having done Masters in Islamiat like no. of rukus in surah hajj, which sahabi died in the hands of holy prophet(PBUH) etc.
Also, easy papers are difficult to be dealt with especially when large no of candidates are appearing in the exam. It really becomes difficult to create difference, consequently score turns out to be low.

FarazAli Tuesday, April 19, 2011 07:49 PM

[QUOTE]It has been and is my biggest relief to be among people who are sane enough to be against this practice of subjugating women through veil. But finding so many friends and fellow rights’ activists among those protesting France’s ban on Burqa is shocking and disappointing both. The anti-ban crowd comprises a range of viewpoints – from ardent Islamic, to moderate, to new-age Islam, to seculars, to antitheists and so on. Most heard argument from almost all of them has been their unflinching ‘concern’ for women’s choice and freedom to choose what they want to wear.[/QUOTE]
sheeraz-in this paragraph the writer shows her grief for various types of muslim.it is irrelevant for us as we do not know motive of these individuals behind their political struggle.
[QUOTE]To me, this strong sounding argument remains flawed, inconsistent and self-contradictory. How could a choice to commit suicide be that widely accepted? If your suicidal tendency is the result of certain frame of mind, experiences in life, is self-destroying and criminal, so is Burqa. When the society conditions your mind to willingly get subjugated and considering yourself ‘safe’ by hiding behind the veil, how is it a ‘free choice’? Most of the women passionately protesting the Burqa ban are heard saying they do it of their own free will because they feel safe. Well you can feel safe in Guantanamo Bay if you’re conditioned to feel safe that way.

It is a slap on the face of a society where a woman can only feel safe if she hides herself, if she is invisible from public eye, if she conceals herself from the male eye. Stepping on the soil of any Muslim country in a dress of your choice save Burqa, is herculean for any woman. You want to wear a sleeveless top on a hot summer day and go out on the streets of Lahore or Dhakka, it would be appalling if not impossible like it is in most of middle eastern countries. Things would, however, be starkly different in Khatmandu, Kandy or Mumbai even if you put east versus west argument.[/QUOTE]
Sheeraz bhai-Here the writer has discussed her opinion regarding ban on burqa in France.She has discussed mentality of the woman protesting in France. We are not concerned with the mentality but the Quranic provisions regarding the veil. The writer does not seem to have discussed it in the light of Islamic provisions.

Sheeraz the topic is too controversial to be discussed by us. Many scholars have failed to reach a consensus on this issue.Then how can we agree with one another?

So i think our examiner would consider our answers provided he finds some justifications. So lets hope for better.

Tassawur Tuesday, April 19, 2011 08:30 PM

[B][I][CENTER][SIZE="4"][COLOR="DarkRed"]Plz Give the correct answers of these mcqs from Paper 2011.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/CENTER][/I][/B]

[B][I](xv) The duration of third period of the compilation of Hadis is:
(a) 171 to 220 A.H
(b) 171 to 221 A.H
(c) 171 to 222 A.H
(d) 171 to 223 A.H
(e) None of these

(xx) Which Sahabi was died in the hands of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in the battle of Uhad?
(a) Hazrat Haris-bin-Haris (R.A)
(b) Hazrat Haris-bin-Azima (R.A)
(c) Hazrat Haris-bin-Hassan (R.A)
(d) Hazrat Haris-bin-Hakeem (R.A)
(e) None of these[/I][/B]


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