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  #11  
Old Sunday, June 14, 2015
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i wish we could debate instead of arguing.
We must not get stuck on our views all the time.
So, If i am going irrational then give this discussion any logical angle. Put your views that if not helping Rohingya Muslims, what would be better option for us ? holding aloof or just goading International organizations ?
One of things ( as mentioned by one member ) that can put high pressure on Myanmar Government is to boycott with it. But is it really something feasible regarding disintegrated face of Muslim worlds ?
And putting one member's question afresh. What channel would our Government choose to assist them through these recent claims of $5m ?
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  #12  
Old Monday, June 15, 2015
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And sorry but according to UN about 400000 Rohingya Muslims need aid and in this regard $5million of Pakistan becomes 5645000000 myanmar Kyat and each person gets 1366kyat.
Do you really believe that 1366kyat can "feed" a husband and wife and their children(let's suppose, at least two)? Also, are you not considering the value of their currency? It is really feeble by the way.

Having said that, let me merge your latest, emotional post's chuck as well, which says:
Quote:
i wish we could debate instead of arguing.
We must not get stuck on our views all the time.
If I am poor, unable to feed my children, but in society I want to maintain or even portray my graciousness and responsibleness, I would give away "a single penny" that I have at my disposal to all those people who are having difficult times out there by letting my children die. Is this what you are trying to suggest?

Do you have any figures of homeless people living in Pakistan?
Do you have any figures of people living under the poverty line in Pakistan?
Do you have any figures of people dying of hunger in Pakistan?
Do you have any figures of people dying of unavailability of hospitals in Pakistan?

Sounds quite emotional? I hope so! That $5m may help you find the answers to above rudimentary questions.

Also, let me add a pinch of bitter truth to that;
What do you consider the behaviour of orthodox Muslims towards non-Muslims living in Pakistan?
Do you support the lynching of non-Muslims?
Do you even support the judgements passed by people in streets upon the alleged blasphemous act of any non-Muslim?
Do you even support the *current* Blasphemy law?

That "resolution" in the parliament in the favour of Rohingya's Muslims may help you find the answers.

Quote:
Then why not something that is need of the hour across the boarder be given from the land of pure ?
Why not something that is need of an hour "inside" the boarder be given to make the land of pure a land of pure?

Quote:
Actually not in Pakistan. You got it wrong. Shelter may be in Myanmar where they lie beneath open sky and after this under a tent.
$50m aid by Qatar for shelter.
$6m additional aid by Australia for shelter and food.
$3m aid by US.
$1m aid by Turkey.
Few million dollars aid by KSA as well.
and then,
$5m aid by Pakistan.

Turkey $1m and Pakistan $5m? Does not make any sense if we consider our domestic problems, challenges and catastrophes!

Quote:
I know you may be thinking of those Pakistanis who are also dying due to hunger in our country. I have no words but to say that decades have gone from one government we are having nothing and from other only concrete named METRO etc. Then why not something that is need of the hour across the boarder be given from the land of pure ?
That aforementioned example "If I am poor..." is enough to understand what is wrong and what is right.

What should be the solutions?
Trust me, in this thread, the perfect solutions by considering every facet are presented by all the members. I do not need to reiterate them in my own words.


Also, we really need to think of all the variables of the equation before coming to any conclusion. Sentiments and emotions will lead us nowhere, except in falling for the flowery one-liners like: Hum kaglay hain tu kia hoa dil walay hain; khud mar jayein gay par apni ego ko marnay nahi dein gay; jaib main takka nahi, par batein lakhpatiyon walein hain etc.

P.S: Please come out of the "fellow Muslims" rhetoric. Humans first, then Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews and so forth and so on.
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  #13  
Old Monday, June 15, 2015
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Quote:
We must not get stuck on our views all the time.
No one is stuck on their views. If your argument was good and convincing and you had devised a good way to help them we might have agreed with you.
The simple answer is this:
If my sister in my home has typhoid and an unknown person somewhere has cancer (even if he belongs to my religion). Then I would go home and help my sister because she is my responsibility first of all.So first of all Pakistanis deserve our help and sympathy.
Second: If you say that govt is giving nothing but metro, still if the govt is going to use 5 million it will be on OUR people first and then others.
Quote:
Knocking the UN & OIC doors
Quote:
And what can i say on this ? may be in a world called global village, the only possible and proper channel would be UN. As according to UN website UN is already providing them assistance.
If you agree that UN is providing them assistance. Then why do you think Pakistan should jump in? So we use UN to send our money to them? Because we are so so rich, right!
Why do you keep talking about knocking UN door?When UN is helping them
Quote:
Let i reiterate this assistance is temporary and it would at least give them food for sometime until there come any other permanent assistance.
We give them food for sometime?
but how long is that some time? And how long would 1366 kyats last?
Until some other permanent assistance? Seems like you are still hoping for a miracle.
Quote:
But let we go through our topic. Simply sense of humor.
What sense of humor are you talking about? No one has made any jokes.
Quote:
Then why not something that is need of the hour across the boarder be given from the land of pure ?
No piece of land is more pure than the other. Just because we claim it to be. It is pure because of its qualities. which we have failed to attain miserably.
Quote:
Actually not in Pakistan. You got it wrong. Shelter may be in Myanmar where they lie beneath open sky and after this under a tent.
So we give them food and tents. in 1366 kyats. Really!!!. Please be reasonable
Quote:
i wish we could debate instead of arguing.
Debate and argue just mean the same thing. To present both sides of the agreement.
Quote:
So, If i am going irrational then give this discussion any logical angle
This discussion has a logical angle you just don't want to see it..Because you are sentimental towards them which is a good thing but that clouds the judgment
Quote:
What channel would our Government choose to assist them through these recent claims of $5m ?
We should not send $ 5 million at all. So there's no point in discussing channels.
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  #14  
Old Monday, June 15, 2015
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Burma's problem with its Rohingya Muslims is a serious one, requiring international condemnation. The states of all countries should treat people with respect and dignity.
Unfortunately, our own country, Pakistan, which is the most vocal critic of Burma's mistreatment of the Muslims, does not itself ensure security and dignity for its own non-Muslims or even Muslims.
The small Christian and Hindu communities in our country are frequently attacked by Muslim mobs. Their houses are burned down. Their possessions stolen. They are charged with blasphemy and sentenced to death. The result is that many non-Muslims are now seeking asylum abroad.
The mosques and communities of Shia Muslims are bombed and attacked by jihadi organizations which our state still tolerates. And who can forget how our state treates Ahmedis?
In the eyes of the world, we too are Burma. Charity begins at home. So let us fix our own home first.
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  #15  
Old Monday, June 15, 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslamabadKid View Post
....
If I am poor, unable to feed my children, but in society I want to maintain or even portray my graciousness and responsibleness, I would give away "a single penny" that I have at my disposal to all those people who are having difficult times out there by letting my children die. Is this what you are trying to suggest?
figures, figures,,,
bitter truths..
need of an hour "inside"..
Humans first, blah blah blah .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazish Hina View Post

The simple answer is this:
If my sister in my home has typhoid and an unknown person somewhere has cancer (even if he belongs to my religion). Then I would go home and help my sister because she is my responsibility first of all.So first of all Pakistanis deserve our help and sympathy.
Metro for us...
No land of pure..
..should not send $ 5 million at all.
Very Logical views.
I have just few questions and something to share:
Wenever i meet Balochs and inquire for Balochistan Issue. One of funny answer i often get from them when i ask 'suppose you got independence and you don't know how gas is produced and other natural resources are gained then of what value these natural resources ? they reply "Hamara apna cheez hae chahe ham faida len ya nalen, dusre q khaen".
This is what i can see now.
Let i ask you some questions:
1.If you are such a hurtles person that before your eyes your son is dying but you are not feeding him instead of having your hands full of food then of what value that food is ? Same time you are giving very little of that food to another neighbor in agony. Yes it seems illogical and makes no sense but does it make any sense that both your son and other neighbor die ?
You said we can't save them with these few millions ! How non-sense is it ? Apply this on each of the states and tell me that which state remains to aid ? Pakistan said my $5m can't get them out of these sufferings, Too Turkey believed and all other states.
2.What if your sister suffering from Typhoid asks you to give her little treatment but a House having strong walls ?
3.How much your government issues for your own people and how much reach to them ? What if your own brother with whom you have sent treatment for your sister, is selling out those medicines ?
4.Tell me if 'Humanity first' then does this humanity only lies inside Pakistan boarder ? One hand you cry for Pakistanis and other hand you Slogan for Humanity ?
5. If you are more concerned about your own people then why don't you take streets when your government spends billions on defense instead of Health and Education ? Please don't take it individually. But see the majority singing of your Army. Surveys conclude Pakistan Nation is happy in the increase of expending on Defense.
Thus: If these $5m are not going to bring revolution in Rohingya Muslims then also this outly will not change anything in our side.
Myopic approach is that these $5m looks us our total GDP when intended to spend for across boarder Muslims.
Pakistan nation becomes very happy to buy WoMD but becomes very emotional when its government wishes to aid a penny.
And once again "Hum kaglay hain tu kia hoa dil wale (brave) hain; bhuke mar jayeingay, ghas khaenge per nuclear banaenge, f16 kharedenge, aur usi ego pe naaz karenge". How many protests have you participated against increasing defense budget ? Or you prefer to remain in arms market making your those own people deprived...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehria View Post
Burma's problem ... Charity begins at home. So let us fix our own home first.
That is the main thing "Let us fix our own home".
The question is 'When we are going to begin this ?
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Last edited by marwatone; Monday, June 15, 2015 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Posts merged.
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  #16  
Old Monday, June 15, 2015
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Quote:
If you are such a hurtles person that before your eyes your son is dying but you are not feeding him instead of having your hands full of food
What is hurtles? And b) Our hands are not full of food. That's what we have been telling you from the start and you aren't getting it. and you never will. So this is last argument I am willing to make.

Quote:
Same time you are giving very little of that food to another neighbor in agony. Yes it seems illogical and makes no sense but does it make any sense that both your son and other neighbor die ?
I would wait for the son to die. But the son isn't dead so we will have to help Our Rohingyas(Pakistani people) first. Like it or not.
Quote:
You said we can't save them with these few millions ! How non-sense is it ? Apply this on each of the states and tell me that which state remains to aid ? Pakistan said my $5m can't get them out of these sufferings, Too Turkey believed and all other states.
I said we can't give them FOOD AND SHELTER with 5 million.
Quote:
What if your sister suffering from Typhoid asks you to give her little treatment but a House having strong walls ?
Now why would she do that? The typhoid must be getting to her brain.

Quote:
3.How much your government issues for your own people and how much reach to them ? What if your own brother with whom you have sent treatment for your sister, is selling out those medicines ?
The issue is to send medicines. I would not say ,"hey you are not giving her medicines. How about you give it my neighbor"?WHAT!!!
Quote:
If you are more concerned about your own people then why don't you take streets when your government spends billions on defense instead of Health and Education ?
Taking streets is for those who don't have better ways.The logical thing would be to help people and not take streets. We are CSS aspirants and plan to change the policy and help others
Quote:
But see the majority singing of your Army. Surveys conclude Pakistan Nation is happy in the increase of expending on Defense.Pakistan nation becomes very happy to buy WoMD but becomes very emotional when its government wishes to aid a penny.
And we don't need to defend ourselves at all? It's not about WMOs and you know that. Our army is fighting a war on the front. maybe you've heard about zarb-e-azb??
Quote:
Or you prefer to remain in arms market making your those own people deprived...
.
Pakistan is not in arms market.Hence, your sentence is incoherent. And now you are suddenly very concerned about our people
Quote:
How many protests have you participated against increasing defense budget ?
How many protests have you participated in to support Rohingya Muslims??
And none of us mentioned army so please stop asking us to protest against defense budget. we need that. Army isn't leisurely sitting and then getting up and buying weapons. I don't agree with Pakistan's budget strategy but for the time being we have no option

Quote:
That is the main thing "Let us fix our own home".
The question is 'When we are going to begin this ?
Does this mean that you've agreed with us??

Quote:
Please don't take it individually
Kinda hard to do that since you've added blah blah at the end of the posts.Why should we even participate in the debate with you. If all you are seeing is blah blah. And we have to cope with your rusty gramamar
This is the last time I am debating this issue. I am through with it. The posts are looking ugly and long. I hate that
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  #17  
Old Tuesday, June 16, 2015
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Post Rohingya

Quote:
i wish we could debate instead of arguing.
We must not get stuck on our views all the time.
This is what you have said in one of your previous posts, yet you are "stuck" on your own views. Furthermore, you should learn how to quote others' views; amending something in any of post loses the "right" to be called a quote. Moreover, learn to digest the views that you find antonymous to yours. Why am I saying so? The answer to that lies in your own last post where you are quoting others by adding "BLAH BLAH BLAH" at the end,which is kind of an abuse to quotation and is showing that you want to hear what your ears want to listen.

(Fun fact) Did you know: The word "Barbarian" was first coined by Greeks, who used to consider others' language sounds like BAR BAR BAR. *sigh* Their arrogance was unmistakable.

Anyway, back to the subject-matter;

Quote:
Wenever i meet Balochs and inquire for Balochistan Issue. One of funny answer i often get from them when i ask 'suppose you got independence and you don't know how gas is produced and other natural resources are gained then of what value these natural resources ? they reply "Hamara apna cheez hae chahe ham faida len ya nalen, dusre q khaen".
You got it in a funny way! Perhaps you have distorted the real facts, or perhaps whom you met and inquired for Balochistan issue must be a typical, aggressive national of south Asia in general and Pakistan in particular.

What one person says does not mean that s/he represents the whole community's narrative.

I do not want to initiate the whole new topic on Balochistan; however, let me sum the long story up by saying that they want their due rights.

Quote:
Tell me if 'Humanity first' then does this humanity only lies inside Pakistan boarder ? One hand you cry for Pakistanis and other hand you Slogan for Humanity?
Humanity lies in Africa, in Kashmir, in Palestine and chain goes on and on and on. The point was specifically about the non-Muslims living in Pakistan. Do not cherry-pick a sentence or two for generalisation! Read my post again!

Rest, consult to Ma'am Nazish's last post.

Regards.
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  #18  
Old Tuesday, June 16, 2015
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I admire you both for giving a nice reason to get out of this debate. Indeed i also don't want to hit my head more & more.
The meaning of Blah Blah Blah from Oxford Dictionary.
Blah: "People say blah, when they do not want to give the exact words that sb has said or written because they think they are not important or are boring".
"i hope you are not going to say 'which oxford ?.
Now definitely your given words were not interesting or important to me and i am authorized to say so.
If i can say in simple words that "your argument was out of sense and very irrational"
then what is wrong to use one word "blah" instead ?
If still i am wrong to say so then i apologize for this.
I am not asking you to comment more. But lastly though:
Quote:
Humanity lies in Africa, in Kashmir, in Palestine and chain goes on and on and on.
i actually don't know where from should we start then if we are going Kashmir you pose that go Africa when go their you will say Palestine first. Well....
Quote:
What one person says does not mean that s/he represents the whole community's narrative.
I may not know where does one can actually meet community's ideology. May be from their angels.
Quote:
I would wait for the son to die. But the son isn't dead so we will have to help Our Rohingyas(Pakistani people) first. Like it or not.
It is not my fault when you don't get the point.
Quote:
I said we can't give them FOOD AND SHELTER with 5 million.
I don't know either it's your pretense or you really did not got my point again.
Please read once again what i said.
Quote:
Now why would she do that? The typhoid must be getting to her brain.

Really very funny and little representing a factual.
I actually wanted to say that 'our nation more wants our Army and Missiles than getting other facilities like Hospital, Schools, etc'.
So whatever it is, typhoid getting over her brain or anything else.
Quote:
The logical thing would be to help people and not take streets
Very nice philosophical view but i actually asked according to our traditional way of getting our interests etc fulfilled.
Quote:
And we don't need to defend ourselves at all? It's not about WMOs and you know that. Our army is fighting a war on the front. maybe you've heard about zarb-e-azb??
That's the thing i meant to say in my early posts. Your sister is more concerned to be attacked from out although having a fatal disease inside home, named Typhoid and aslo which has started to get over her brain.
Quote:
Pakistan is not in arms market.Hence, your sentence is incoherent. And now you are suddenly very concerned about our people

Either i am informal or you are more and more formal to read my answers.
Quote:
How many protests have you participated in to support Rohingya Muslims??
Haha, Are you serious to ask so ?
Quote:
Does this mean that you've agreed with us??
This is the main thing you are getting always wrong.
Where did you find me saying "not to do for or help own people" ?
...
End of the topic:
More than 45 million people, or 14.5 percent of all Americans, lived below the poverty line in 2014 in spite of all this US released $52 billion in foreign assistance and support funding.
France is suffering from its highest rate of poverty since 1997.
2.5million/14% of Australians lived below poverty line in 2014.
There was about 15+% poverty in Germany in 2014.
UK, Sweden, Norway and Japan all are having a fraction of their population living in poverty.
But at the same time these countries come in world's top ten Donors of Foreign aid.
We have 21% population under poverty line in comparison to India which is having about 30% of its population under poverty line, but why it has provided $700+million aid to Afghanistan ?
...If the aid given by above all countries was not their total wealth then Are these $5m our total Balance ? what you assume actually.
Leave it, Can you tell me why your army was going to help Saudia despite having a giant menace of Terrorism at home ? (although it did not go but was all ready to leave if given a single gesture ).
Leave it too, Can you tell me, why you are the largest troops contributor to UN despite these massive attacks and losses facing at home ? No, But here this becomes a thing of proud for you.
...
I have seen many poor families giving 10 rupees to a beggar because they know that although they are poor but this time the beggar is more in need of these 10 rupees and these 10 rupees donation will not make us deprived.
Lastly if Blah Blah Blah is really a wrong thing or abusive then i am really really sorry.
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  #19  
Old Wednesday, June 17, 2015
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Its really good to distinguish between what is right and wrong. On Individual scale, we can move on with the stance we consider it to be the right one. But on collective level; one ought to choose what is possible as well. Cause if we exert all our energies on arguing then we would not be able to be on our destination on time or we may never get our goal. So helping Brethren Muslims is always welcomed as we, Pakistan, is the only Muslim country created on ideology basis. And our objective Resolution is all round about Islamic Ideology and safeguard of Muslims.
But being focusing on Pakistan's economy we cannot allocate much funds for Rohingya Muslims but we should contribute some definitely. As an responsible citizen of Pakistan, we all raise our voices on injustice within Pakistan territory but we should not neglect that we are Muslim Ummah as well. And we are like a body, if pain in one part of your body then your whole body would be in pain. The only thing is to realize and to feel the pain of your Muslim brethrens but at the same time there should be a balance in your emotional threshold and in devising a policy for the welfare of the Muslim Ummah in general and Pakistani masses in specific. verily we cannot hide on the grounds on financial crunch in our economy. Financial assistance is not everything; we can also contribute our morale assistance as well. As it is evident from the ebbs of the history. Pakistan has always supported Muslims on any part of the world whether it is Kashmir, or Palestine. So we should raise our voice on international forums, social network and within our own institutions as well.
why you guys are duly focusing on financial aid only. There are other ways out as well. And above all, we really need to upgrade our own economy by displacing all our honest energies. we need to be at that position where we would be no more beggers cause beggers cannot be chooser. Reliance of your economy on external debt makes the economy vulnerable. But as history depicts, Pakistan always contributed a little financial or military aid for the support of its muslim brethren. So it should pay some penny as well for their rehabiliation. These small pennies always work for the vulnerable masses. small chunks altogather makes a pool. Thing is if you are from a poor family and you earn 13k per month, even then being a muslim ummah you can contribute mere 10rupees for anybody help. If per household, these savings can be made for the vulnerable segment of the society then a pool can be made. And rich housholds may contribute more. There is nothing impossible; thing is to go what is possible on the macro level. Otherwise if you are president of the country you may take any decision , you may hold with it but then opposition will not make you to go on with it. And all the energies will be exerted to convince them. And even then u will not be able to do that task on time.
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