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  #1  
Old Tuesday, June 09, 2015
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Post What to do and what not ? why Paradox.

It is wondering to meet the paradoxical views of many Pakistanis on internet and live on many issues. Recently if we come to understand that before Pakistan was silent on Rohingya Muslims then many people were found blaming Pakistan for being silent over this as being a Muslim state it should also help other Muslims in trouble. Later when Pakistan has taking this case and decided to do something for Rohingya Muslims now many and many people are coming with some criticism like: Pakistan should protect its own minorities first. or Pakistan is also in trouble it should first solve its own problems ? or Why should Pakistan interfere in other's problems ? WHy Pakistan why not other rich Muslim countries ? etc.
Now the point is that what actually our Government shoud do ? and what not ? i know there too are many members in this form regarding this and having different approach to this.
In my opinion:
Being a Muslim state, we must help those Rohingya Muslims. There are reasons and also answers regarding above questions.
First of all admittedly we are a poor state and we have many many problems that must be solved first.
But If we compare our current condition with that of Rohingya Muslims' then definitely we will have a good difference. We are living in an independent state having our own rights though we are deprived from many of our rights but not directly as faced by those Rohingya Muslims. Like we can't be forced to leave our homes if we are actual owners and legal to this. No one can burn our homes, no one can kill us by the help of governing factors like military or Police as compared to Myanmmar Muslims. And we are independent to live. Although if we compare the cases like Terrorism or Crime which are not having any official form, So we have a justifiable right to stand for our Muslim Brethren.
Second: Although we are poorer than many other Muslims countries but this does not mean that we should remain silent over the tired and unsympathetic stands of other Muslim countries or UN. If we are capable to handle this then it becomes our duty to help them both morally and religiously.
Third: We have minorities that must be given equal rights but it does not make any sense to say so. Why ?
Because it is not our official or constitutional drawback that we be posed for this. Minorities being deprived from their rights is actually an issue for the state caused by other unofficial factors and terrorism. like blasts in non-Muslims' worship places could be brought as cases of our state's being failed to protect minorities when such incidents would happen just in non-Muslims in the country. And it is a fact that more than non-Muslims, Muslims and Mosques are being targeted and bombed. So this becomes a state Problem having no any sub-title.
So helping those Rohngiya Muslims would be our best decision. And these $5million that would be spend on those Muslims, would bring a good image of Pakistan and change the atmosphere. We could prove that we are still a hearty nation despite our numerous problems we can help our brethren across the boarder.
Mainly we could get our Mothers and Sisters out of those barbaric atrocities of Myanmmar government. See how they are torturing women and children and rape cases are so high.
Let us see other members' views.
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  #2  
Old Wednesday, June 10, 2015
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This topic's already been discussed. I could paste the same post here but I don't like cross posting. So go to this page and scroll down to read my post.

Read my response: http://www.cssforum.com.pk/general/d...a-muslims.html

And if you still have questions then read this:
And to answer you other questions: People were blaming. Let me tell you Pakistani Public isn't one.It is a very diverse nation, There are many sects and groups in it. There are liberals and there are conservatives. The conservatives were the ones criticizing the Government like you But the liberals like me have trouble digesting that a government who is struggling to help his own people would be able to help other people.

Yes we are a Muslim state: this question has been answered by my linked post which is above. So no need to reiterate it.

And we are not in a position to help them.period. And No pakistanis are not independent. Have you ever been to rural Sindh? Do you even understand our feudal system which has made many slave. And how many times have you heard that: A feudal lord unleashed his dogs on a 10 years old. Or broken the legs of a 14 year old. Or a Girl was killed because she was doing something that was not honourable for her brother..Countless times

And have you never seen a kid working at a mechanic's. Have you ever met an IDP? Someone who lost their family in a terrorist attack?
So despite of what you have been hearing all is NOT well in Pakistan.

Quote:
If we are capable to handle this then it becomes our duty to help them both morally and religiously.
No we aren't able to handle this. The reasons are mentioned in the above linked post.Could you answer the questions in the above post ?

And Minorities being targeted is our National problem. They are our citizens and it is not about stopping their religious places from blowing. It is about making them thrive not survive. How many minority kids have gone to school with you? How many have gone to college or gotten a job?Hve you ever been to minority community? Ever wonder why they build seperate communities? When they used to live side by side in India.
Religious intolerance needs to be addressed by the government. If our books are going to teach that Hindus were very clever and not trustworthy. How is a child supposed to understand tolerance? How is a Hindu child supposed to learn from it? This has a subtitle but if we don't open our eyes why can't see anything

These 5 millions might change our image but they can't help them at least not permanently, but there are no solutions for this: 5 millions would not give them shelter,food and life skills.

All we can do is Raise our voice. And put pressure on ASEAN and UN. And also the Mayanmar Government. We can try to isolate them by stop buying products from Mayanmar.

Resettlement offers no way out of the current situation for more than a million marginalized Rohingya in Myanmar. The only answer lies in reforms in Myanmar that incorporate the Rohingya as full and respected members of society.
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Old Friday, June 12, 2015
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[QUOTE=Nazish Hina;838077]
Quote:
...
First of All other thread is something different to this. Like Being Host Or Helping are two different things and i did not say that should we be host but why not should we help them? And yes this help is meant through our diplomacy or Politics like putting the case before so called UN or AESEAN, using media, Human Rights orgs., placing super hands together etc.
Or at least providing them some food or shelter ( what we are going to do ) that they could breath until there emerge any miracle to get them out or come up any UN like bodies and end this game of genocide.

Quote:
Pakistani Public isn't one
it is but we are not counted as country of Sunnis, Punjabis, Sindhis etc but One Nation By the way so was my question perhaps put wrongly. i also wanted to meet the proper and right claim in our people. That Why such paradox views are found in us (as a one nation) ?

Quote:
And we are not in a position to help them.period. And No pakistanis are not independent. Have you ever been to rural Sindh? Do you even understand our feudal system which has made many slave. And how many times have you heard that: A feudal lord unleashed his dogs on a 10 years old. Or broken the legs of a 14 year old. Or a Girl was killed because she was doing something that was not honourable for her brother..Countless times
Consider What was my point: If we compare our current condition with that of Rohingya Muslims'.
And I am from Rural Sindh. There is totally different perspective of laws, rules and governance in comparison to our constitutional terms. I also think that our problems should be solved first of all but the thing making it unlike our speculations is the Condition compared to that of Rohingya Muslims.

Quote:
And have you never seen a kid working at a mechanic's. Have you ever met an IDP? Someone who lost their family in a terrorist attack?
So despite of what you have been hearing all is NOT well in Pakistan.
1.Would it make any sense comparing child labor with the killings and slaughter of children in Myanmar ?
2. What is the case of IDPs. Even we have more worse kind of cases.
Two things you mentioned IDPs & Terrorism. If there had not been any war on Terror there would not have been any IDP too. Means byproduct of curing an fatal disease. Well Well, Point is the same what is already mentioned Compare the condition.
3. Are you comparing these occasional terrorist attacks with that deliberate genocide in Myanmar ? Yes terrorism is worst but we are still fighting it then what if we raise our voice for others ? would it put any hindrance in our War on Terror or other missions ?

Quote:
No we aren't able to handle this. The reasons are mentioned in the above linked post.Could you answer the questions in the above post ?
In your other post you have only mentioned problems and issues faced by Pakistan separately. I will say. Helping Rohingya Muslims does not mean ceasing our internal movements against problems faced by us.

Quote:
And Minorities... ...anything
Another Problem.

Quote:
These 5 millions might change our image but they can't help them at least not permanently, but there are no solutions for this: 5 millions would not give them shelter,food and life skills.
Not permanently but temporary until UN, OIC awakes.

And Conclusion:
Quote:
All we can do is Raise our voice. And put pressure on ASEAN and UN. And also the Mayanmar Government. We can try to isolate them by stop buying products from Mayanmar.
This is the main point. And Ends meet origins. Then in Simple terms "We should help Myanmar"..
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Old Saturday, June 13, 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamauk View Post
First of All other thread is something different to this. Like Being Host Or Helping are two different things and i did not say that should we be host but why not should we help them? And yes this help is meant through our diplomacy or Politics like putting the case before so called UN or AESEAN, using media, Human Rights orgs., placing super hands together etc.
Or at least providing them some food or shelter ( what we are going to do ) that they could breath until there emerge any miracle to get them out or come up any UN like bodies and end this game of genocide.


And Conclusion:

This is the main point. And Ends meet origins. Then in Simple terms "We should help Myanmar"..
This is what I am going to focus on. If not resettlement then what are the other viable options to help ,as you put it?
The International media is already putting pressure so that point is moot.Do you really think that they would care more about pressure from our media when AlJazeera and CNN are condemning them
What is super hands? Please elaborate because I've never heard it before
There is not going to be a miracle, please be practical. We can't expect OIC and UN to help them. As I said before only way is to stop Mayanmar.
Do you even know the number of total Rohingyas?It's in millions the 5 million will only give them at most 5$ each.
How can we provide them food and shelter? and where?
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Old Saturday, June 13, 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazish Hina View Post

There is not going to be a miracle, please be practical. We can't expect OIC and UN to help them. As I said before only way is to stop Mayanmar.


What I mean is that They are not really efficient organizations. Because they are based on an entirely voluntary system. They aren't going to help them.Because they don't have the jurisdiction

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Old Saturday, June 13, 2015
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We can pray for them, but canít help, on the score of our own situation. Terrorism disfigured our image with the casualties of more than 24000 citizens and above 6000 soldiers. Law and order situation is going bad to worse. Democaleís sword from neighbor is a matter of grave concern we are not in a position even to provide food and shelter to them. A country with 4.5% inflation and 5.5% budget deficit our 40% population is living below poverty line and we are thinking to help the other countries. Yes our prayers and good wishes are with our Muslim brethren and there life on boat hurts the people of the land of pure
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Old Saturday, June 13, 2015
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Post Rohingya

Quote:
...at least providing them some food or shelter ( what we are going to do )
The question is: How are we supposed to "deliver" food and shelter to the concerned lot? By invading Myanmar? Or by sending troops in the name of terrorism - just like India did few days back - and while alleviating terrorism there, we will parcel out food amongst Rohingyas?

What channel you propose we should opt? If it is via UN, do you not think other countries - more responsible, resourceful and rich than us - are not willing to "help" Rohingyas?

For the time being, if we opt that solution, what would be your reaction if India shows willingness of helping the people of Thar who are even deprived of clean drinking water?

Quote:
Helping Rohingya Muslims does not mean ceasing our internal movements against problems faced by us.
If we rubbish all of our problems that we are facing for the time being, how would you ensure that the only "help" that Rohingyas are seeking from Pakistan - the only Nuclear power in the Muslim world and apparently the only Muslim country who is bound to take care of each and every Muslim around the world - is food and shelter?

Quote:
it is but we are not counted as country of Sunnis, Punjabis, Sindhis etc but One Nation By the way so was my question perhaps put wrongly. i also wanted to meet the proper and right claim in our people. That Why such paradox views are found in us (as a one nation) ?
One nation, in PM's speeches and in local textbooks, YES! Otherwise, in reality, we are not.

Quote:
Not permanently but temporary until UN, OIC awakes.
Temporary shelter? Just like we did back in Zia-ul-Haq's dictatorial era in the case of Afghan Muhajirs? That too temporarily?

Rest, agreed to all the arguments(by all members)!
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Old Sunday, June 14, 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslamabadKid View Post
The question is: How are we supposed to "deliver" food and shelter to the concerned lot? By invading Myanmar? Or by sending troops in the name of terrorism - just like India did few days back - and while alleviating terrorism there, we will parcel out food amongst Rohingyas?

What channel you propose we should opt? If it is via UN, do you not think other countries - more responsible, resourceful and rich than us - are not willing to "help" Rohingyas?

For the time being, if we opt that solution, what would be your reaction if India shows willingness of helping the people of Thar who are even deprived of clean drinking water?



If we rubbish all of our problems that we are facing for the time being, how would you ensure that the only "help" that Rohingyas are seeking from Pakistan - the only Nuclear power in the Muslim world and apparently the only Muslim country who is bound to take care of each and every Muslim around the world - is food and shelter?



One nation, in PM's speeches and in local textbooks, YES! Otherwise, in reality, we are not.


Temporary shelter? Just like we did back in Zia-ul-Haq's dictatorial era in the case of Afghan Muhajirs? That too temporarily?

Rest, agreed to all the arguments(by all members)!
Excellent points raised. Specially the "Thar" part
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Old Sunday, June 14, 2015
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Islmabadkid and Nazish: You have raised some really good points. I am impressed by the way you two have done the analysis of situation.
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Old Sunday, June 14, 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazish Hina View Post
This is what I am going to focus on. If not resettlement then what are the other viable options to help ,as you put it?
The International media is already putting pressure so that point is moot.Do you really think that they would care more about pressure from our media when AlJazeera and CNN are condemning them
What is super hands? Please elaborate because I've never heard it before
There is not going to be a miracle, please be practical. We can't expect OIC and UN to help them. As I said before only way is to stop Mayanmar.
Do you even know the number of total Rohingyas?It's in millions the 5 million will only give them at most 5$ each.
How can we provide them food and shelter? and where?
....
What I mean is that They are not really efficient organizations. Because they are based on an entirely voluntary system. They aren't going to help them.Because they don't have the jurisdiction
Yes, CNN, BBC like networks are broadcasting Rohingya Muslims already. Well we have still good options. What i already said.
Knocking the UN & OIC doors. and other that you mentioned putting a halt on Myanmar economic routes to Muslim countries etc.
And sorry but according to UN about 400000 Rohingya Muslims need aid and in this regard $5million of Pakistan becomes 5645000000 myanmar Kyat and each person gets 1366kyat. By the way I did not say that these few millions from Pakistan will change their lives but may draw some attention in this way from other Muslim states to aid them. x, y & z.
Sorry Super Hands means super power states i wrote it informally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslamabadKid View Post
The question is: How are we supposed to "deliver" food and shelter to the concerned lot? By invading Myanmar? Or by sending troops in the name of terrorism - just like India did few days back - and while alleviating terrorism there, we will parcel out food amongst Rohingyas?
What channel you propose we should opt? If it is via UN, do you not think other countries - more responsible, resourceful and rich than us - are not willing to "help" Rohingyas?
Good question.
And what can i say on this ? may be in a world called global village, the only possible and proper channel would be UN. As according to UN website UN is already providing them assistance.

Quote:
For the time being, if we opt that solution, what would be your reaction if India shows willingness of helping the people of Thar who are even deprived of clean drinking water?
Are not there already hundreds of NGOs working in Pakistan ? Suppose india wanted to Help Thar people then he can do it by the help of UN. SO what is wrong in this ? I can understand what you mean and the simple answer 'why can't ?

Quote:
If we rubbish all of our problems that we are facing for the time being, how would you ensure that the only "help" that Rohingyas are seeking from Pakistan - the only Nuclear power in the Muslim world and apparently the only Muslim country who is bound to take care of each and every Muslim around the world - is food and shelter?
Let i reiterate this assistance is temporary and it would at least give them food for sometime until there come any other permanent assistance.
In other words 'this help may not let any news paper in coming time having a headline that x hundred Rohingya Muslims died due to hunger.
I know you may be thinking of those Pakistanis who are also dying due to hunger in our country. I have no words but to say that decades have gone from one government we are having nothing and from other only concrete named METRO etc. Then why not something that is need of the hour across the boarder be given from the land of pure ?

Quote:
One nation, in PM's speeches and in local textbooks, YES! Otherwise, in reality, we are not.
ISBKID, definitely. But let we go through our topic. Simply sense of humor.

Quote:
Temporary shelter? Just like we did back in Zia-ul-Haq's dictatorial era in the case of Afghan Muhajirs? That too temporarily?
Actually not in Pakistan. You got it wrong. Shelter may be in Myanmar where they lie beneath open sky and after this under a tent.
......
Dear debater must visit this link:
http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e4877d6.html
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