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  #21  
Old Tuesday, February 02, 2016
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Originally Posted by Man Jaanbazam View Post
According to notification Tablighi Jamats will not be allowed to enter educational institutions.The administration will devise a system of intelligence.

(Please remain peaceful while putting up your comments and show some patience)
The reason behind this step?
Why only educational institutions?
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  #22  
Old Tuesday, February 02, 2016
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If jamaat is doing something illegal, unethical or is engaged in illicit activities then why not ban it in the whole country?

If they are a propaganda tool then why not negate their perspective in a more clear manner by presenting a counter narrative? And to do so what is better than prestigious educational institutes in the country?

I believe educational institutes should be the last place to ban them.
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  #23  
Old Tuesday, February 02, 2016
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Originally Posted by abbas khan 119 View Post
secularism and liberalism stand quite apart from each other. While liberalism is synonymous with moderation, secularism indicates separation of religion and state
should i infer from your statement that Islam has lost its relevance and secularism is now the best alternative? I think before embarking to impose secular values we should have an appraisal of our society, ,that can easily embrace the Islamic ideals than the secular values. Experimentation with secular values has failed by and large in Islamic countries i.e Tunisia, Turkey.
Experimentation with secular values has failed by and large in Islamic countries i.e Tunisia, Turkey.

Are you really meant to include Turkey in failed ones?
Sorry for your ignorance but you need to understand the paradigm that defines the difference between successful and failed states. Turkey comes in top tourist destinations, among top economies, best literacy rate to all muslim states, in 2015 nobel prize in chemistry was awarded to a turkish. I don't to what you call failed?
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  #24  
Old Tuesday, February 02, 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneelbachwani View Post
Experimentation with secular values has failed by and large in Islamic countries i.e Tunisia, Turkey.

Are you really meant to include Turkey in failed ones?
Sorry for your ignorance but you need to understand the paradigm that defines the difference between successful and failed states. Turkey comes in top tourist destinations, among top economies, best literacy rate to all muslim states, in 2015 nobel prize in chemistry was awarded to a turkish. I don't to what you call failed?
Yes, its true! Muslims have to understand that each and every Islamic model has met with failure except Turkish as it is beautiful amalgamation of western and Islamic ideas that profess a peacful co-existence thus minimizing the threat of extremism either its on far-leftist or far-rightest side.

Sent from my R8106
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The problem is our people have been brainwashed systematically in a specific kind of religio-political narrative. Many people don't know how liberal and secular Jinnah was, how he made this country through a democratic and constitutional struggle. How your first Commander in Chief was a British Officer and how Pakistan was a Dominion with head of state as the King and later Queen of Britain until 1956, the airforce was called Royal Pakistan Airforce and navy was called Royal Pakistan Navy. People don't know that the country was secular until 1973 and look what happened when Zia came. Similarly, Attaturk made Turkey very modern and progressive and guess what, Jinnah admired Attaturk greatly, that is why we have Attaturk Avenue in Islamabad and Jinnah Road in Turkey. Now that Erdogan has come on the scene and he is an Islamist, Turkey is going down. We need to keep religion private and worry about the world getting ahead of us in the fields of science and technology and social development. There is a reason why Europe/West is so ahead of us, it is because they have been through this 500 years ago and they realised that the church and state have to be separated and clergy should not rule, that is why they prospered.
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  #26  
Old Tuesday, February 02, 2016
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The only prime and chief reason of Pakistan's sorry current state of affairs is of its dedication of state's supremacy to religiosity, other all sources of nuisance are secondary. The day state comes out this dilemma and declares statehood free of religiosity, no thing can stop it hitting the sky and shining.

Muslims countries in general, Pakistan in particular, have remained failed in acknowledging the needs of modern times.

Take the example of India, its progress in all walks of life in comparison with Pakistan apart, assume the land has been based on hindu theology? would the state's affairs have been the same? NO. It goes without saying that hatred among Indian hindus towards Indian muslims is more deep-rooted and extreme, but the only reason of the nation stability is being state's nature of secular.

P.S. Don't judge the argument only on recent affairs of India under modi. Consider its whole history. India is huge with far diversity but it is relatively stable.
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  #27  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfalcon View Post
The problem is our people have been brainwashed systematically in a specific kind of religio-political narrative. Many people don't know how liberal and secular Jinnah was, how he made this country through a democratic and constitutional struggle. How your first Commander in Chief was a British Officer and how Pakistan was a Dominion with head of state as the King and later Queen of Britain until 1956, the airforce was called Royal Pakistan Airforce and navy was called Royal Pakistan Navy. People don't know that the country was secular until 1973 and look what happened when Zia came. Similarly, Attaturk made Turkey very modern and progressive and guess what, Jinnah admired Attaturk greatly, that is why we have Attaturk Avenue in Islamabad and Jinnah Road in Turkey. Now that Erdogan has come on the scene and he is an Islamist, Turkey is going down. We need to keep religion private and worry about the world getting ahead of us in the fields of science and technology and social development. There is a reason why Europe/West is so ahead of us, it is because they have been through this 500 years ago and they realised that the church and state have to be separated and clergy should not rule, that is why they prospered.
Really sorry to say that we people have never realized that what is going to happen at world sphere.I'm pro leftist but my sympathy towards so called modern secular state is almost zero.For your information there is no individual state in world polity which is purely liberal in perspective.
What is happening on the world sphere,do you people know!

Dear members have a look on the following site.
Its a 3 hour movie,but very very very important to change your way of thinkings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Qt6a-vaNM
I hope you will find yourself in a state of skepticism.

@kingfalcon
Decide yourself who is brainwashed!


im inviting all members to visit this site as it contains such an hard fact realities that it will definitely change yours thoughts!

Last edited by Man Jaanbazam; Wednesday, February 03, 2016 at 08:19 AM. Reason: merge chain posts
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  #28  
Old Tuesday, February 02, 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursula View Post
im inviting all members to visit this site as it contains such an hard fact realities that it will definitely change yours thoughts!
If I were in your place, I would have suggested the documentary named 'The Arrival'. If you have not come across do watch it as its stuff, which is full of conspiracy theory, will match your taste. And also listen Zaid Hamid and Maqbool Oriya Jan.
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  #29  
Old Tuesday, February 02, 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazhar mehmood View Post
I am neutral regarding the decisions, but the decisions for not allowing jammat and not recruiting Pushtuns for security level jobs show Govt has no clear cut policy, for what they have to do. If you only stop Tableegi Jammat Activity it will increase divisions among Muslim. These awkward and baseless decisions means govt, Army and Intelligence agencies are failed to fulfill their Promise for Peace.
Who said that govt banned on pashtun not to join security Job, my two brother are serving as army officer, and there are lots of pashtun working in different security department, In SSG majority soldiers are pashtun
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  #30  
Old Tuesday, February 02, 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aneelbachwani View Post
Experimentation with secular values has failed by and large in Islamic countries i.e Tunisia, Turkey.

Are you really meant to include Turkey in failed ones?
Sorry for your ignorance but you need to understand the paradigm that defines the difference between successful and failed states. Turkey comes in top tourist destinations, among top economies, best literacy rate to all muslim states, in 2015 nobel prize in chemistry was awarded to a turkish. I don't to what you call failed?
yeah i reiterate my stance experimentation with secularism in the said two countries has failed by and large. Had it succeeded and taken roots in Turkey, a party that aligns and identify its self with Islam would not have succeeded. Remember there had been a ban even on scarf since the Atat¨¹rk era but women of today's Turkey are being attracted by it , even the first lady wear it. And let me tell you one thing more the modern Turkey of today that you are referring to is not an outcome of secularism but the careful and calculated efforts of Recep Erdogan.
To find some cogent evidences you need to study and compare the economy and political stability of Turkey before 2002and after that.

p.s: i never said Turkey is a failed state. I said experimentation with secularism in Turkey has failed.
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