Assalam Alaikum,

I am all for the women getting justice and their basic Islamic rights just like we males are rightfully getting them from so long in our backward society.

My personal observation is this, we can no longer call ourselves Muslims unless we follow our religion in its true word and spirit. Women are regarded with upper most words of respect by both Quran and Hadith.

As far as getting raped becoming a so called business for these women, I think these generals should be the one to be hanged first to rape Pakistan's dignity and use it to their advantage and so should the selfish Politicians.

As far as Mr. Musharraf claim that women are getting more rights in his government by bringing the number of women in assemblies. I have seen those women and with no offense to any body in this forum those women majority of them, are there so our male ministers don't have to travel to Lahore's red light district everyday from Islamabad. So we all know that those women are better served in their homes or wherever, because they are no good for Pakistani Politics or for Pakistan itself.

I agree that our Justice system is rotten, and the helpless people in society become more helpless when they become part of it. But what is the solution to this all?

That was my question, yet I got the similar emotional resposes as mine above, but nothing concrete. So I suggest to our members to put forth all their effort to come up with the answer to my basic question of HOW?

Thanks.

The last resort is the public taking justice in its hands, which again, will be discouraged by the government and our so-called law enforcers will be the main obstacles as always. The women DSPs Zahida & Rehana, if they had any self-respect, they would not have thrashed the poor Sonia the way they did. Now I think that men are not the only ones to be blamed, these two senior officials are women themselves.

Recently, in Ramadan, the people of Karachi noticed two incidents of public buses being burned down. Examples of people taking justice in their hands. The first incident happened last week when a public bus "4-M" hit a girl near NIPA Chorangi, the girl was a student of Sir Syed University of Engineering & Technology(SSUET). The students were enraged, they stopped the bus, beat up the driver badly(don't know if the driver survived) and burned down the whole bus. Similar was the second incident, on M.A.Jinnah road, a public bus ran over a rickshaw(probably killing the driver) and the bus alongwith the bus-driver faced the same fate as that of the aforesaid bus.

The people of Karachi know, by experience, that the transport mafia is very strong, if they file a case, they'll never be able to get justice, in this regard especially... There are numerous examples, i only quoted recent ones. But other than the public taking justice in its own hands, there is no solution, because all of us know that the Police dept. cannot be trusted. Those Karachiites, who have ever reported a crime, a theft or a major robbery, have ended up in chaos and regretting that they filed an FIR in the first place. Whom else should the ordinary public turn to for justice???


Regards,

BUSHaRRaF

In all honesty,the news clippings above are enough to shudder the soul of the bravest of women.I would'nt be surprised if the victim Sonia commits suicide one of these days.
Anyhow,let's get things into perspective before that happens. (Saving one life is like saving all mankind;The Holy Quran).

Accordingly,my suggestions follow:

1. Let's not stereo type all women because of a few bad fish because by doing that you're actually discouraging the capable ones from entering State offices,including those of the Assemblies.It further coincides with the Islamabadi mentality that the General so candidly quoted in his W.P interview.

2.Let's start by getting off the General's back...he's already fighting at a lot many fronts.Had it not been for him these cases would'nt have seen the light of the day.On the contrary,the victims would've breathed their last the moment they decided to go public.Successive governments in Pakistan (including those of women leaders)repressed such victims and silenced them through pressure and some token money,thus putting a Muslim woman's dignity on sale!Disgusting!!!!!!!!Turn back the pages of history to five years and you'll have enough stories to back my claim.
This indicates that the General is not a bad man-just a misunderstood one!Infact,he's brought about a silent revolution in Pakistan.So let's quit playing the blame game and resort to more effective means.

2.No revolution ever bought overnight results.If we combine patience with consistence then and only then can we reap the fruits of our efforts.

3.Active opining through the press media can pressurize the legal system and the offenders of the present and the future.If Mukhtar Mai,Sonia Naz and Dr.Shazia are still breathing,then after God,it's courtesy to public pressure.

5.Holding peaceful/legal protests against the bail or acquittal of the offenders,by educated youths like the aspiring civil servant's society,should assist the judicial system to remain on track.

4.I'm sure that each male member scrolling through this thread can now sense the pain of gender related crimes.Its a start.As future civil servants,wittingly resist the temptation of giving in and reacting similarly if caught up in similar situations.It's now up to us to brave the system!

5.Educate Pakistan.If each one of us here sponsors and/or finds sponsors for atleast one child's schooling from reputable schools,the results will begin showing soon.
If the male members of the forum are not fuedalist mentality than the credit goes to their mentors and quality education.

6.Familiarize each woman who hails from the poor strata of society on her rights and realities.Assist her to the CPLC in case of police high handedness.If nothing else,the Liason Committee hangs over the heads of the PSP officers like the Sword of Damocles!

7.Women should be inducted in the police-at the CSP level.So far there's none.This should help in the conductance of ethical and sensitive investigations.

8.The female members of the Forum,to start with,should also brave the system and be the first to volunteer as ASPs at the interview table.Their transition can be smoothened if our worthy male members start highlighting the need in the leading press media papers.

9.Lastly,let's have faith in Allah Almighty and then our present leadership.If Mukhtaran is getting justice,Sonia can too!

HAIL PAKIATAN!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
No one is listening,until you make a mistake !!

Assalam Alaikum,

My question was simply to ask that even though Sonia's case was no perfect example of quick Justice, but she by going to Supreme Court, and the culprit being official was expedited a little faster than that of Mukhtar Mai and Dr. Shazia.

So to answer to my question myself, we as a nation as a whole can no longer call ourselves civilized, if we no longer protect the vulnerable ones amongst us. No doubt that some of Ms. Chaudhri's suggestions above regarding awareness and educating people can be the first step, but it still is a long way to go. I personally believe, our leaders should form an independent commission or organization on the example of NAB, NADRA or recently RECONSTRUCTION AUTHORITY, to indpendently investigate rape crimes. These commission should be responsible from day one to investigate the crimes in which women are victims, and these cases should then directed to Supreme Court, and the punishment should be of Treason, as this crime is no different than that. If the active army members under Musharraf can run other civil institutions, why not give the job to them, as army still is the respectable institution in Pakistan.

You know my hats off to Ms. Mai, for emerging as a role model from that incident. She definitely got my vote. Not only did she opened up the first ever school for girls in her village, but conducted her self so professionally in her recent visit to US, that never once she let the western media portray pakistan negatively through her statement. She is true Pakistani, and was called ROSA PARKS OF PAKISTAN, which I have no doubt she is.
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On the Personal level, when I saw SP KHALID being brought to the court for hearing, I was disgusted that the man was not even handcuffed, instead he was wearing starched shalwar kamiz. It seemed to me that he was attending a wedding than a court date.

Thanks.

Salaamz,
Good show.Creating awareness through such little efforts goes a long way BMDD.
But other than that,our system is already overloaded with inefficient commissions and organizations,so what we really need is QUALITY PERSONNEL to run them.

__________________
No one is listening,until you make a mistake !!

Assalam Alaikum,

I agree with u here that they can go along way, only if they are implemented. I am in no way tried to contradict you here Ms. Chaudhri, but creating awareness and such are a long way to go in our backward male dominated society. One still needs effective institutions to deal with such problems, I don't think we can leave it to local police, who are bought and sold for some dollars.

Thanks.

Hi BMDD!!!
Are they really buying the local police in dollars these days?Damn...let's join this Deptt.!!! :p

Coming to serious business now,i'm going to refrain from any sermons.However,i consider it necessary to state here that the maturing of a society also comes through contradictions,and i'm not immuned to this principle!So provided that your criticism is valid and constructive,you'll never find me taking it personally.

Other than that,you once again mentioned in your post that there ought to be nationalistic gender crime related cells/commissions.Therefore,once again i'll remind you that there're plenty already.The credible ones are named as follows and mind you,they amount to a needle in the haystack:

-WAR (War Against R...)
-APWA (All Pakistan Women's Association)
-FMF (Feminist Majority Foundation)
-NHRC (National Human Rights Commission)
-CATWC (Coalition Against Trafficking of Women and Children)

So now,do we need more bodies for investigating the aforesaid issue in airconditioned,interior decorated offices with lavish meetings highlighted with snacks for thought,or quality personnel to run the already existing ones???My arguments have been endorsed in the following site:

http://www.globalinfo.org/eng/reader...rticleid=30327

Furthermore,the Musharraf regime has even moved to the extent of creating commissions to assess which laws discriminate against women.Please don't assume here that i'm pro Musharraf.I'm not.Rather,i'm just stating facts as they are,and leaving the decision for you to make.

Lastly,you've opined that gender crime investigations should'nt be left to the police rather awarded to the army.Let me remind you here that corrupt personnel have infiltrated every deptt. of the State.Some are known,others are still to be!

Majority of the crimes against women,including harrassment,go unreported in Pakistan due to an understandable hesitation against the conductance of unethical and insensitive investigations.Therefore,i would still plead for the inductance of family oriented female ASP'S in the PSP.
Korea experimented with this idea and their official crime rate went down by a good 70%.That's food for thought for my male counterparts!!

With that,i rest my case!!!

Regards,

(The voice of the ones with no voice)

__________________
No one is listening,until you make a mistake !!

Assalam Alaikum,

I am vey much illiterate about Korea's precedent regarding this issue, and would very much like to educate myself in that regard, so if u can direct me some links, that will be appreciated.

On the light note, dollar was a typo, but even the bribes they take are pretty handsome amount in dollar rate as well, that's why I am opting CSS. Well that was bad joke, but it is the mentality of a lot of people, I am just putting it in perspective.

Thanks.

Assalam Alaikum,

I am more than glad to get your views, as they are useful for us all here.

Coming back to the business, I believe the Organizations that you mention above are the NGO's that work together with the Law Enforcement Agencies (well correct me, if I am wrong). So the point being that these organizations do rely on Police and other Civil institutions to help progress the cases.

I do agree with you that women CSP's should be inducted in PSP, but they should be the part of autonomous body not linked with the whole TULLA culture in Pakistan, and should have dedicated people as u suggested. Who on the report of abuses have the authority to arrest, investigate, and most importantly CHITTAR MARNA to the abusers, and then should have the authority to report to the Higher Courts of Pakistan to better expedite that process.

I know that I may be suggesting something that may add up to the bundle that already exist, but here are my ponits:

* Crimes should be reported by Women on Phone or in person, and FIR be registered by these bodies.

* They should be responsible to investigate, arrest and such.

* They should provide protection to these victims.

Because as far as I can understand NGO's can't do that, but do agree that they are the best people to oversee this process.

Until your formula of introducing women CSP's work, and their efficiency in the Police Culture makes any difference, that's the only solution I see fit. Read Ms. Sonia's case, where they are torchering her instead of providing protection.

You know, one intriguing thing that I have just noticed recently is Ms. Nilofar Bakhtiyar, she is some kind of advisor to the PM on women rights, yet I never saw her physically raiding the police stations on the complaints of mishap by police to these women victims. Even though she got nothing to do with Ministry of Interior, but she is the advisor to the PM on WOMEN RIGHTS.
So not to sound anti-establishment, these advisors should do more than just advising in AC rooms, and be more active in the field. And this is the best way our "BELOVED" President can stop the business of women getting raped to become millionaire and going to Canada.

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Just to give you an example of how the women ASP's today are working is the example of MULTAN female ASP, I think her name is Farhat ***** something.

According to "The News," when she makes an arrest she prefers to follow the example of Abu Gharib, and strip people naked during interrogations, and do those things that we have seen in photos coming from Iraq. I am not talking about her doing this to some murderers, but she does this to people even suspected of minor crimes. I am in no way suggesting that our police is new to the method of torture, but they do it only to the people who can't contact their MAMA and TAAYA's who may be their senior officials or some politicians. So until we change that culture, I don't see any hope.

__________________________________________________ _______

By the way, anxiously waiting to read about that Korea's precedent that you have mentioned.

Thanks.

Salaam,

Enough has been said, already. Sermons have been delivered. Extempore speeches have been made. Yet, no results achieved. Pitiful situation, it surely is!

It is voluntarily accepted that i'm extremely late at this region of the forum but I surmise I still have the opportunity to update this area with my esteemed thoughts.

The state of affairs has been pathetic since the very inception of this country notwithstanding the presence of eloquent speakers like Mr. Babban and Miss Chaudhary at all times.

First, I would raise a little concerns about the assertions of Miss Chaudhary. Miss Chaudhary in your post you alluded that the fruits of revolutions can't be yielded over nights. You need to mix up patience with consistence to form a mysterious element to reap the benefits. Miss Chaudhary don't you think 58 years have been enough of waiting?

Second, Madam, you suggested the press to pressurize the government. Let me bring it to your knowledge that Pressure Groups (press and electronic media) can never play their roles effectively in dictatorships. For that, you need to have a democracy. Get Musharraf off the hot seat before you devise further strategies to solve your chronic problems.

Commonplace well-wishers of Musharraf proclaim loudly that Musharraf has introduced press-freedom. A simple question is that does this freedom have any influence over driving government policies?

At one place, honourable Miss Chaudhary states that peaceful/legal protests against the release of the offenders should be held. Miss Chaudhary, I agree with your point here but tell me if educated people (busy in their personal lives) will ever come out on the roads until they are confronted with injustice themselves? Leave aside everyone else, what did you personally do for those ladies? Did you ever come out on the streets with your cronies/near relatives/siblings? Perhaps not, may I have the pleasure to know the reason?

Yet at another place Miss Chaudhary suggests to educated Pakistan. But I really have serious reservations about her fashion/mode to achieve the goal expressed by her. Miss Chaudhary, more than 70% of our population can be counted under the poverty line. Education has become unafforadable today. People are mostly unable to make both ends meet, how do you expect them to afford expensive education. The most commendable act at your side would have been if you had elicited ways of bringing quality education under affordable expenses.

Miss Chaudhary insists on educating women from the countryside about their rights and assist them to the CPLC in case of police highhandedness. And then the respectable lady affirms that Liaison Committees should be approached in case things go wrong with PSP people. I agree with the young lady at her stance, however, Miss Chaudhary didn't tell us how will we educate them. Who will assist them? Do the Liaison Committees really do the job?

According to Miss Chaudhary we should recruit women as ASPs through CSS. I am unaware whether they are presently allocated in the Police Group. However, I do appreciate this idea. Though it won't solve the problem of justice but it surely will minimize the harassment that women go through at the hand of male police officials.

That's enough for now. However the game continues... and there are rivals this time!

Any proclaimed offence is unconditionally regretted. Forthwith apologies are expressed.

Regards,
Adil Memon

PS: The ultimate solution is injecting people like you, me and Babban into Politics.

__________________
"The race is not over because I haven't won yet."

Adil Memon
Police Service of Pakistan (P.S.P)
37th Common Training Program