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View Poll Results: Honestly speaking, I want to join Civil Service because
its a lucrative job. 7 6.19%
it wields much needed power and authority. 32 28.32%
it gives greater opportunites to serve the country 43 38.05%
I love the way bureaucrats look. 10 8.85%
I have no other choice. 11 9.73%
its a respectable profession. 25 22.12%
its a prestigious profession promising a bright future. 38 33.63%
I am a talented person and my country needs my services in this field. 38 33.63%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old Tuesday, August 04, 2009
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@ Preshan Gul

An excellent analysis and well knitted passage

I would take some excerpts from your initial post to discuss them by and by.

Quote:
it is a very interesting, though not so admirable fact that, people crave for civil services only for three “Pzz”: power, prestige and privilege.
No doubt it sounds so interesting that our youth sweats for 3 P's and its also factual that 3 P's are earned by painstaking prudence, diligent determination and unflinching audacity . If one is ready to do utmost for making the dream of CSP a reality of life definately deserves laurels. I mean is to utter the hard reality of preperation that had to be made for winning the battle of CSS with glorified radiance.

Quote:
Present civil service of Pakistan is a direct descendent of British Civil Service and its traditions of arrogance and narcissism and even time to time changes in its structure introduced by different governments couldn’t affect its colonial spirit. So we see in the form of our bureaucracy remnants of British raj trying to preserve the legacy of colonialism. More than 60 years have passed since we got freedom but it is so strange that our bureaucrats are still living in the pre-independence British India and their aloofness from common man rightly reminds us that we are still dwelling in an occupied land ruled by some alien race.
Very right but I dont agree with the conclusion. Bureaucracy isnt aloof from masses but they are not perpetuating revolutionary changes as its expected to them. The cream of the nation joins Civil Services from multitude professions so the general expectations make sky the limit and eventually they fail to get it. When the expectations are unfulfilled the light of hope is dimmed so the statements of "haughtiness of bureaucracy" and "legacy of colonialism" come across. There can be many reasons for ineffectiveness other then individual lapses.
  • Inadequate Monetary Compensation
    Political Instability
    Insufficient Resources
    Lack of Democratic Culture
    Undue Political interference
    Nepotism
    Plutocracy Culture
    Absence of Reward Culture
    Absence of Objective Performance Yard-stick
    Rigid Service Structure

The above mentioned factors made an enthusiastic and determined CSP a stiffed neck bureaucrat.

I would continue with my discussion in the next sitting..............

Sorry for inconvenience.
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  #32  
Old Wednesday, August 05, 2009
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Arrow Continuation .........

Quote:
A young idealist may claim that he wants to join this field to serve his country. Without doubting the genuineness of his claim and without questioning his intentions I do say your claim is shallow for I have, with a heavy heart, seen a large number of people leaving such noble professions as medical and engineering and joining civil service. With what aims?? ……..
I believe that claim of serving the nation and poor masses living miserable life fell short of practicality when a CSP joins the field after the completion of STP. If the intention is to serve the country then it could be in any of the field even railway is the most useful way to reduce the sufferings of common people as thousands of them travel through on daily basis… but how many of the aspirants want to join Railway….? Almost none. Even those who are selected in the services / groups other then PSP, DMG, Customs and Foreign Services make utmost to join the said groups even at a loss of their seniority of 2 to 3 years.

I am also doubtful about the catch-phrase of serving the nation . There is no problem if an engineer or a doctor is joining civil services but I am not convinced to the claim that doctors and engineer could serve better being in the civil services like DMG, PSP and customs as compared to those who did specializations in their respective fields. It is most likely that a doctor being PSP or DMG officer would have no participation while the health policies are designed federal level and so with other fields.

The crux of the matter is we need competent and meticulous professionals in the civil services who has to develop policies of the country at their senior position and they should also have the talent to represent the country at any of the forum and we could proudly say that here we have our gems.

Quote:
Can’t they serve their country in a better manner being doctors or engineers than being bureaucrats????? Surely our country needs more Doctors and Engineers than civil servants.
The reason for joining civil services is more of aptitude than anything else. It happens that a Dr. or Engineer serves for 2 years and suddenly realize that he or she should opt for CSS its nothing but the aptitude. It also happens that after qualifying such big exams one fails to get the job and make his / her mind to prepare for CSS. Here I would like to quote an example of an engineer who was so eager for CSS till his 4th year of Engineering and continued his preparation side by side from 3rd semester but just after completion he got a lucrative job with handsome salary of Rs. 80,000 alongwith frequent foreign visits and he left the dream to join civil services. Many would disagree with my stance but it’s also the perspective that exists and we should accept it.

Quote:
Please don’t try to be rulers of this poor country. Be servant of this beloved land. We have enough of rulers, now we need earnest servants for this country teeming with courage, determination and ability to change this outmoded system.
Yes all the aspirants and qualifiers should make their individual efforts to change the system although it won’t be in one day but only the young blood could do it. We have to give a better Pakistan to our coming generations and it’s possible only if we are ready to serve the country and its people with out utmost efforts.
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  #33  
Old Friday, August 14, 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOrn2ruLE
I wanna join this group just for "ABSOLUTE POWERS"
It's not like that I belong to a very rich background but I have no lust for money. I just want authority and command, as I think I have got managerial skills rather than functional.
Please correct me, If anything you think in my ideology is mischievous.
Thanks and regards!
‘It wields much needed power and authority’, what do you think these words are for???? You want to join this service for ‘absolute powers’ and think that you have got managerial skills. You may be right. Hankering for power, as I already mentioned in some previous post, isn’t mischievous in itself; it is the motive for aspiring power that determines the good or badness of your urge for power. Cogitate in your solitude over your longing for power and explore your heart honestly why do you want power??? Most probably you may be a victim of ‘personal aggrandizement’ and you may be trying to satiate your ‘distorted ego’. If this is the case than get rid of this plague as early as possible for it is harmful not only for you but also for your country. Power for the sake of power is negative in its essence and hence can’t bring ant positive change in the society. As historian John Edward said “Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely” and as William Pit asserted “Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it” so is our general observation in our society for we see a ‘normal homos sapiens’ turning into a ‘haughty, stiff-necked statue’ as long as he attains some power or authority. I again and again plead that we are passing through a very critical phase of our history and need earnest, conscientious and ascetic officers who work for the betterment of this country and not for filling their egotistical whims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss_Naqvi
@ Preshan Gul

An excellent analysis and well knitted passage
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........
I would continue with my discussion in the next sitting..............
+ Continuation
Your detailed analysis of the situation mentioned in my post is excellent and you have even explored the corners that I left for some reason. Your following passage superbly answers those forum members who seem so agitated at my impudence of questioning the motive of their joining Civil Service.

I believe that claim of serving the nation and poor masses living miserable life fell short of practicality when a CSP joins the field after the completion of STP. If the intention is to serve the country then it could be in any of the field even railway is the most useful way to reduce the sufferings of common people as thousands of them travel through on daily basis… but how many of the aspirants want to join Railway….? Almost none. Even those who are selected in the services / groups other then PSP, DMG, Customs and Foreign Services make utmost to join the said groups even at a loss of their seniority of 2 to 3 years.

Also your point regarding Doctors and Engineers joining the Civil Service with the so-called slogan of serving the nation is revealing and tells the real story. Though I agree with almost all of your points yet I couldn’t reconcile with your statement that “bureaucracy isn’t aloof from masses”. It is the pig-headed bureaucracy together with headless Military and brainless Politicians that jointly have lead our country to the present state of chaos and uncertainty. These three actors have always remained so remote from the common man that no cohesive nation spirit could be formed in our society. Of these three I blame bureaucracy the most because our Generals and Politicians, keeping in view their ‘qualities of head and heart’, aren’t of such a stature to even think of bringing some change. So the responsibility rests on Bureaucrats who you say are ‘the cream of our nation’. This ‘cream of our nation’ instead of awakening the masses to bring some betterment in their lot, connived with the Generals and Politicians for its personal gains and thus consistently played the role of an alien ruler mindless of the needs and aspirations of the common man. You may say that how bureaucracy could do anything with out the help of rulers. The point is valid but if bureaucracy couldn’t do something positive for the progress of this country it could at least have stopped our senseless rulers doing things that proved detrimental to the destiny of our nation. Instead of being an impediment in the way of wrong policies of our rulers our dear bureaucracy, most of the time, played a very happy role of a facilitator in dragging this country down to the path of regression. It is wrong to say that bureaucracy alone can not undo the follies committed by previous successive rulers. A single person, a single upright person, let alone the whole bureaucracy, can do the marvel with the indefatigable courage and relentless zeal if he is committed with his nation and his land. What did our bureaucracy have done in the past 62 years other than supporting the malpractices of our rulers and perpetuating the plight of the poor masses? Basking under the borrowed shine of fake superiority and contended with the position of being instruments of tyranny and misrule in the hands of successive despots our bureaucrats only increased their personal lots and sunk the fate of this hapless nation. .
We need now a new breed of Bureaucrats: ascetic, energetic and ready to sacrifice every thing for uprightness and virtue. As early as we get rid of routinist officers it is better for our dear homeland.

------------------------------

Now after announcement of CSS 2009 Exams as a large number of candidates are preparing to join Civil Service it would be extremely useful for us to know with what aims and ambitions they intend to enter this service.
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Last edited by Princess Royal; Sunday, April 11, 2010 at 08:21 PM. Reason: posts merged
  #34  
Old Friday, December 11, 2009
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im nt going 2 go in a lengthy debate. just few points
1) 2 ur query regarding who z better suited 2 opt 4 css among doc/ engr or simple BA or MA degree holders, i wont talk any philosophy over her neither i knw. Just Do a simple task it aint that tough. Just go 2 a medical college, a engg uni nd any other uni offering simple MA. pick out a person randomly from each place n give them any common prob of regarding day 2 day business of govt machinery n see out fr urself who z better. No need 2 ponder over it. ok
2) if an engr or doc leaves his profession nd opt 4 css tht means he z in dere fr any purpose. the thing tht purpose z gud or bad is something tht comes later. Now coming 2 80% applicant from MA bckground. vot purpose do they have rather then just coz they had nothing 2 do else. ur theory ov PPPzz somes later. they just dun have any purpose 2 go on wid.
3) just check 4 ppl around u. ask teenagerz of matriculation or inter abt what field they ll prefer fr themselves. Then come n tel me how many told u i want 2 b a CSP. 95% ll say either doc or engr or commerece man. So what happens out of these 95% only 10% have the talent 2 make it 2 thier dreams reast cant so they go 4 BA n MA. Tell me how many ppl voluntarily opt 4 simple BA?????????? so if doc or engr were able 2 be vot they wanted 2 b tht means they outclassed the rest. they had the talent 2 achieve thier aims so even after soming 2 CSS they can materialize thier gud intentions nd vot bout the reast even if they have gud intentions the experience tells u they were nt able 2 materialize them

So plz be realistic. Nd 2 correct ur figures about we need more doc nd engr working i thier areas plz rest assure that there z already abundance of surplus doc n engr unless u build thousands of more hospitals nd industires nd it cant be done by aperson holding MBBS or Engg degree but rather by Govt n CSPz are tool of implementing govt will.

@ all da bro holding Masterz in social sciences
No offence meant. i just wanted 2 make my point clear 2 Gul. I rate social sciences even higher then technical ones provided one go fr them wid devotion nd nt just coz he cudnt make it otherwise
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  #35  
Old Sunday, December 13, 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arslan Shaukat View Post
Usually people do join Engineering and Medical professions in Pakistan because their parents wanted them to be an Engineer or Doctor. The ambitions of the son/daughter are ignored, and sometimes they are forced to study till late at nights to fulfil the dream of their parents. But after graduating in an Engineering degree or becoming a Doctor, some people even find it harder to get jobs that match to their qualifications (the same case is more prominent when someone gets an Engineering/MBBS/BDS/D.Pharm degree from an unpopular institute), then the same person finds CSS as an alternate way to gain a prestige in society. And I think they have the right to join CSS as people from other professions do have.

Regards,
I think you conveyed the plight of majority of the people, atleast mine.
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  #36  
Old Monday, December 14, 2009
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Default CHILDISH Sidra,shah and otherzzz

Dear Pareshan Gul,

Excellent
Fantastic
Perfect
Whatever u presented are the bitter pills to swalllow ....!
ALL we are dying to take the 3 Ps shown by you.
Indeed, i am going to take few excerpts from your first Writing
and
the way you mentioned the scenario is quite comprehesible and needs to be deliberated.
I dont know why these people are not getting the crux of your discussion
especially,
i could not belive how people like Sidra , shah and drkhurram are taking the issue in wrong direction?
the comments and arguments posted by sidra and shah4341 are insulting and pathetic and civil service is always almost defamed by such kind of expressions of people.
Irresponsible
senseless
and
above-all
immature
grow up miss sidra and mr shah now...!
and try to present yourself as presented by mr.GUL
you are alwayz welcomed for constuctive issues , mr Gul
take care
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