I think we need to stop relying on any one (china, US, Saudi), we are passed through that era, we have to do some thing ourself , we have to do it now or never.well said Wah Boy....this is the time when we have to do something practical...& stop just critisizing....
But atleast from the visit of Bush all our recent leaders & coming ones should realize this fact that US is never sincere to us ...as its clear from history also that USA has always used us in the time of need & than leaves without any regret....again this thing is going to happen....
I think our worthy President has gotten the ultimatum of

Pray to God that he send a good leader in Muslim Ummah ...becoz not only Pakistan but the whole Muslim Ummah is passing from a very critical phase & what it urgently needed is a good leadership....


with regards,
Muskan

Salam,

Pakistan is again on a decisive position because the recent policy shifts from US forces Pakistan to have good relations with its neighbouring countries as well as good working relations with US. One can say that Bush's visit to India and Pakistan reslulted in embarassment and no gains for Pakistan.

Even the American media reports are showing the reality of the President's tour as they have almost neglected the work done by Pakistan in WAT while US needs Pakistan only for this WAT, nothing else other than this as it did earlier with Pakistan.

Regards,

Sajid.

I would contradict all of you...........

Let's go back in time....... its October 1999
Our country is in tatters....
A man comes out and says I m gonna change the course of this country on the way of progress and development......
And he did so....

I didn't had any confidence in Pakistan, it was in a state of collapse....
our economy, our morale and international status was down.....
And look where we are today.........

Musharraf's policy isn't pro-US its based on sustainibility and self-reliance....
We are in a much better position...... Our relations with China, and the rest of the world are such that we have more options and much better control of the situation..... Afghanistan can't survive without Pakistan, and the US forces can't control anything if Musharraf moves away......

Now as far as Musharraf feeling frustrated........ I don't think so....
You can't deny truth....... the Indian's are meddling into the affairs of Pakistan and all is happening through Afghanistan...... which is under US control, so US knows all this, that's why Mush called on Gen. Abi zeyed....
And by the way who is Karzai?? Mayer of Kabul?

__________________
Life is a kaleidoscope of flaws, desires, emotions and mishaps__ YHK

The topic is quiet hot,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well whatelse muskan has said is surely 100% affermative, that the current US visit to South Asia has shown how sweet foreign policy they got, as it was mentioned in their own newspaper DAILY TIMES that US haven't done what exactly PAKISTAN deserves.
Talking about US-India romance I really want to share one of the most red hot part of US contracts history with that of Bharat mahan. It was June 1985 when Mr. Raju Ghandi had a high technology transfer contract with Mr. Ronald Regan the US president at that time, and right after that US exported a consinement of super computers to our neighbours saying that it was for the sake of wheather forecast readings but actually it was for the calculations of mesiles manufacturing, as till yet its only a super computer that can handle such sophisticated figures (as yet the technology hasn't competed the formation of quantum computers), well that was the time when the story begun to make Indian military stronger and stronger.
Right after that in 1987 India asked to purchase nearabout 3000 defence items which were considered to be in the control list of the exports of sensitive technology, well US accepted approx 90% of the required stuff. One thing more that I want to mention that at the same time one of the Pakistani Canadian also asked the permission to export just a single subjective defence item and regarding to such "bold" procedence he was sent to prison for one year (wow).
Bush said that "Histories of India and Pakistan are different", well certainly they are, the time when there was war in AFGHANISTAN, India was at the side of Soviat Union, it was one of those countries who were the founders of neutral revolutions which were off course against the US defence pacts, it had close relations with Iraq, Cuba, Lybia and Syria who were severe antigonists of US. It was Pakistan who supported to US at that time, it was us who provided bases for their air attacks not India, the informant U-2 jets for Soviat Union flew from our side not from India. But although knowing all these differences President Regan in 1985 drafted a 20 years plan for strengthening Indian defence system, and the present episode is the part of it. Its only because those white devils want a complete Indian dominance over the region, to make it stand against China whose flash develpoment is fully undigestible for him and to bring Pakistan under Indian influence. As Pakistan is an Islamic territory and the only nuclear power in the entire Islamic World. US who has stated that they have started another crusade war against Islam, as Islamic EXTREMISM is their next target right after communism, how can it afford the nourishment of Pakistan's nuclear technology?
Once these bitter realities are wide and clear to all us, then how can we expect positive attempts from the side of whites? Whatelse has happened was quiet obvious. And as our President said in one of his recent press conference that they don't need any asistance from US side regarding their defence capabilities. Then I better say he's simply trying to make a sort of cover up.
And as far as Kashmir dispute is concern Bush has unloaded himself by saying this that both countries should resolve this matter on their own behalf, means behind the curtain he has allowed India to carry on its violence out there (ALLAH REHAM KARAY).
Once we won't turn active, once we won't refine our minds, once we won't turn sincere with our land, then we'll last such suffrage, and as Mr.Sajid says "we have to look towards others for help and support".
60 years are going to be get complete soon, and still we are dependent. (Allah ki shaan)

FEE AMAN ALLAH

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Farangi teyra chehra do rangi,,,A'ankhein roshan dil zangi.

@ Yasir Hayat Khan

U have right to cotradict....but all we hv discussed here is reality...Our worthy president is frustrated....no doubt he has done v good things for this country as u hv mentioned in ur post but i think the time have arrived to say bye to him...becoz trap has been set for him....

India is blaming Pakistan for the recent blasts...
Afghan government is craeting troubles for him.....which is totally under control of USA...so its mean indirectly USa speaking againest Musharaf's unability to handle the infiltratioin......
Internal situation is also bad ....Problems in Blochistan & militery opperation against the tribes ....Opposition's compaigns....all these factors are reducing his fame....

No doubt we have good relations with China but Musharaf's forigen policy was bended towards USA....clear proof is militery operations against his own country's citizens....
He has gotten ultimatum from America & trying his best now to get his lost status in their eyes again...by extending military operation againest tribal men......
Anyways we should hope for the best but what circumstances r telling is that we all should be ready for another American tout becoz what work USA wanted to take from Mushy ....it has been taken....

Pray to God for the betterment of this country & whole nation...

with regards,
Muskan

__________________
My ALLAH it is enough for my respect that I m "Your" person & it is enough for my pride that "You" are my GOD."You" are exactly the way I desire.Thus please mould me the way "You" desire.

Assalam Alaikum,

Mr. Yasir, all your points are well taken and I have to agree with you that Musharraf did some good for the country, BUT....

Compare his leadership from NOW & THEN, when he came in he was the guy with very little or no foreign support, therefore he did all the right things for the country to make the countrymen like him. He brought in good team with him who made some long term goals and started things that looked very promising for Pakistan, BUT....

Unfortunately, as soon as he came into spotlight and became an ally on the never ending war on Terrorism, which I may add without any clear agenda he acted like a kid in a school being bullied by others. Therefore, all the good things that he started became ineffective, therefore all his promises remained promises and were never implemented. When he promised the elections without an independent ELECTION COMMISSION, he brought 95% of the same people who he pledged to kick out when he came into power. He used NAB to ensure his rule stays stable, and just blindly took orders from the WEST like there is no TOMORROW.

He supported the same people who became the cause of the unrest in our country, for example MQM in KARACHI, these are the people who have robbed Karachi over the years as TERRORISTS, now he has given them the whole Province by means of vote rigging and such. Naimatullah Khan, the best Mayor of Karachi's history also became the victim of fraudulent elections. He has Kicked Nawaz and Benazir out, but what about the 95% of the other impotent idiots that are with him now.

He pledged to take the nation on the path where it has never been before, yet he is just a XEROX copy of Zia's regime on steroids, back then we were fighting against Soviets now it is Terrorism and FOR WHO?

SO tell me what has changed, and the problem with this guys is that he has gone so far in his ALLY (slave) status, that there is no way he can return, and he has not been rewarded for his services either. Therefore, he is frustrated and he got nothing left to do then be ineffective from this point on. Bush's visit to Pakistan was nothing but a reminder to Musharraf that YOU ARE NOT DOING ENOUGH!

Leadership is all about making your own way, instead following someone else, and Musharraf after 9/11 has become a follower rather than a leader.

Thanks.

AoA

well i m very lazy/buzy so cant give attention to such an informative and healty discussions, but i was compelled to present my point of view

dear it is a common notion that interests of every person are supreme, so is the case with the countries and nations

nd it is the rule of foreign policy that no country is permanent foe or friend of a country except for national interests of that country

Musharaf he has done a lot nd he is dong a lot for betterment of the country

as regards Afghanistan and India, they always remained hostile to Pakistan then we must not be thinking to have good gesture by them now as wel

similarly the US had her own interests nd she pursued them, Pakistan is also pursuing her national interests by having cordial deals/relations with China and also with Iran

so far as killing own pple are concerned, dear this is not the first time that such military operations r used, back in 50s, same happened at dir and malakand nd then twice in Balochistan and now also the curent Balochistan issue has some other perspectives instead of war on terrorism, nd for Waziristan the fighters r destroying the governmental instalments, there r taliban type pple near miranshah, there is a very good friend of mine, who belongs to miranshah, he told that there r many foreign elements there. Look dear we r taking care of Afghanis since 1979, nd it is before my age nd what is the result, the ate our things, used our things, went abroad on our visa and name nd malign our name, what the hell to all this. then why we take care of them ??? Islam teach us harmony nd prosperity but there is penalty for treachery as well !!

in furtherance, though Musharaf and Zia ul Haq both were COAS (chief of army staff) and president but u c their policies on many fronts differ very much. Musharaf is doing very well nd though i don't agree to his many policies but he is indeed better then all, whom we can thnk to be leaders of our nation

nd as regards opposition, the 17th amendment was passed, u c the same opposition passed that amendment, nd mind it the opposition is trying to get benefit from the caricatures issue to tople the government, but this wont be happened as the method implied for passing the 17th amendment can also b utilized here ........

as regards elections, dear though riging took place but on many places the cheating was done by the pple themselves instead of government nd pple gave votes to many parties so they came afront v can tke MMA as example

think about these aspects...

ny how, wish u best of luck

tke care

plz b praying

Allah hafiz

__________________
'Thee woh ik shakhs kay tasawar saay - abb woh ranayee khayal kahaan'

Well the topic is very hot and a healthy disscusion is taking all over the forum i am just a common surfer and i didnt want to post at any forum but your nice views and comments have compelled me to post and present my views.
So here we go :

What is the problem of pakistan ?
As far as i see it and analyze things around i think the basic problem that pakistan has is of democracy we have never had a leader who makes his own decesions and take out the country on the road of prosperity and towards true development and democracy all what we have done in past and as we are doing today is taking dictation from our masters (US).Great nations take lessons from their past but i am sorry to say he have learned nothing and this due to a general taking hold of power and doing everything what he wants we love serving as a front line state whether when its a fight against soviets and now so called war against terror and in return when we get nothing then we get frustrated and start making bold and unnecessray statments which largely effects our foreign policy have a look at the president's interview at CNN it was totally undiplomatic i am not saying that pakistan is responsible for whatever is happening in afghanistan no pakistan is not responsible for anything but we have to stay calm and need to have total control on our emotions becoz we have indians on both sides of our borders now they have two secure fronts both of our east and west borders are indirectly handled by indians northern alliance of afghanistan which is nowadays in power were from the day first pro indians they have never liked pakistan and his role as recognizing talibans and helping them (thats what they say) and by us making such statments will help indians to isolate us in the region and thats what the indian policies and agencies are up to if you look at the current global position of pakistan and have a look at our neighbouring countries who do you think has a good relations with pakistan all of them are diverted towards indians so i would only like to say that our president should stay calm and should not make such statments which is not in the best intrest of our beloved country pakistan yes i totally agree that US has once again dumped us and its clear as crystal that we are not the one's they want to have as friends we are only
their Ally (slaves) on war against terror we are only their to kill our own citizens bomb the local villages and throw missiles on local villagers and all this is for what simply to make master happy.

I would also like to raise a question how far has this war on terror helped us and how have we beniffited from it ?

Sorry i wanted to write more but i have to go study keep up the good work and criticize only if you think it can help our beloved country pakistan do not criticize when you think its not in the best intrest of our country president musharraf is our leader only we have the right to criticize his policies as pakistani's.We should not allow anyone to say anything against him atlast he is our leader and if anyone tries to abash our leader we will not let him do so.
Keep in touch.
Salam.

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[SIZE="4"]Nothing Great In This World Has Ever Been Achieved Without Passion[/SIZE]

AoA

dear Jehanzeb agreeing to ur some points

brother, please make clarification democracy is not a one man show, however, it is the thinking of a pool of pple whereby all could present their views

yeah u r right Pakistan did not get good leaders from its inception except for the Father of Nation i.e. Quaid-e-Azam and Pakistan remained in difficuilt situation specifically by presence of India and seucrity was the foremost issue since then

ny how, President of Pakistan is our leader and he has done a lot to secure the country from a number of bad things

as regards what we achieved from being part of War on Terrorism, i can say that if we wont have been a part of coalition then our condition would b very worsened, look at that time india was also planing to get benefit nd if Pakistan wont b a part then perhaps India would have been utilizing the moment to destroy Pakistan and in this context we may remember the incident of Delhi explosions nd firing after only three months of 9/11 and that was only the conspiracy of India to malign Pakistan

ny how, whatsoever, the consequences would have been, it wont be good for the nation and musharaf saved the country

may Allah bless him and give him sagacity to do many good things

regards

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'Thee woh ik shakhs kay tasawar saay - abb woh ranayee khayal kahaan'

@ Tabbusam

Sir u r right that President musharf had saved the nation after 9/11....bt see now the situation is going to be same becoz visit of Bush was only reminder to Musharaf that he is nt doing well....our president had compromised with the circumstances once & had done wt was the need of time....but now situation is again grave,....he has to do again & again wt USA wants ...& USA r never interested in the benifit of Pakistan......As mentioned by the Bubban Miyan earlier that no doubt that Musharf has done v good things in the start bt now he is just obeying Americans......he is in power untill he serves USA...

With Regards,
Muskan

__________________
My ALLAH it is enough for my respect that I m "Your" person & it is enough for my pride that "You" are my GOD."You" are exactly the way I desire.Thus please mould me the way "You" desire.