Democracy VS Dictatorship
 

How a worst democracy is better than a smooth running military dictatorship?

Democracy vs Dictatorship
 

well,it is really intriguing to discuss democracy and dictatorship simultanaeously.let us first take the issuse on philosophical grounds:democracy has no universally accepted definition but two components are essentially found in all of its credible definitions i.e equality and freedom;whereas dictatorship is marked with arbitrariness and haughtiness.Democracy as a system takes nations into accout while dictatorship revolves around the dictator's whims and wishes though they might at times coincide with the general welfare of public
Now we come to the practical aspect,well,it might happen that dictatorship prove more beneficial and productive than struggling democracy in a country.However,one wrong cant be rectified with another wrong.If democracy fails to deliver then there must be something wrong with the implementation of its principles.The cure of democracy is to give more democracy.Democracy is a process and it may take time to get firm roots let alone reaching the ideal stage.Let me illustrate it in an another way:We see that Islam is under attack all around due to the inefficiency and inaction of the Muslims.So who is to blame?Islam or the Muslims?The answer is quite obvious.The onus lies with the practitioners and not the system,idea or a philosophy.Same goes with democracy.So i believe that even the worst kind of democracy is better than a smooth running dictatorship.

Good analysis Asad, let me add something. In a democracy the nation has an option to change the government no matter if after half a decade if they feel like the interests of the ruling party doesn't coincide with the peoples interest but when dictatorship prevails, the only way to get rid of it is to wait for the dictator to die to pray for this to happen.

Hold on sir!:onesec

the question is how a worst democracy is better than a smooth running military dictatorship?

i wud answer that its not really a mature and analytical to assert that the worst democracy is better than a smooth running military dictatorship.

firstly lets define worst democracy and smooth running dictatorship:-
[B]WORST DEMOCRACY:[/B] It is a total perversion of the real democracy.it has riggedly elected representative; indifferent voters; selfish and unaccountable executive and ruling political parties; corrupt judicial system; venal political,civil and bureaucratic institutions;etc.
[B]SMOOTH RUNNING MILITARY DICTATORSHIP:[/B] It is a form of dictatorship in which a military chief is at the helm.in this system of government the judicial,civil,military and bureaucratic institutions work smoothly and are held accountable for their acts of omission and commission.the political parties are not given chance to flourish but the people may participate in the state of affairs through the system of Local Government Bodies or any other channel.

[B][SIZE="5"][COLOR="Blue"]now i think that i would love to be ruled by this smooth running military dictatorship.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B].

Question is wrong. Democracy can never be the worst. And dictatorship can never be the best.

@Samee,

I didnt get you.. I think question is right.

Democracy can be worst, infect by now we need to know if we give a glance to our history. Instead of going in any other debate, all i would say that, we are living in a country where people know what worst democracy is..

as far as the smooth Dictatorship is concerned, I would say yes, Its is better. In last 62 years, dictators have ruled bit more then so called democratic people. if we go and analyze the work and the achievements of both, we will cum up with a conclusion, where Smooth dictatorship is better then worst democracy.


Regards,
_______________________
(do or die but dont say way)

My statement was crystal clear. There was no ambiguity incorporated in that. You know you are quoting a wrong example. As per your views we have democracy at present but in my opnion we do not have democracry at all. So my statement stands valid.

Who says that we have democracy at present?

And for your kind information we have not gained from military oligarchy. We have divided our nation only becuase of militaries ill organized policies. We have weakened our center. We have booked a huge loss in terms of inter province dishormoney, threat to national integration and what not. For God sake don't back this horrific phenomenon any more.

Don't take it wrong, let me make it very clear..

if its not worst democracy or so called democracy then what is it?

Regards,
______________
(live life forever)

Let me give you a nice hint:

To wake up a sleeping man, drops of water are needed but to wake up a sleeping nation, drops of blood are needed.

This is not democracy. No body is coming forward to cast her / his vote in this forum. There are around eleven members available but they are lest bothered about democracy. This is how country runs.

Again with due respect my humble request to you,

Please just wait and see what other members have to say about it...
Let seniors come forward to say whether statement is right or wrong..

Regards,

_______________________
(life is all about learning)

Hi,
interesting discussion. but, can u please define democracy as u consider it to be the true democracy....

would be glad to read ur reply!

i would also say that democracy is just the theory of politics which can be put into practice in any form of government (legitimacy may be a good condition to make out if a form of govt is democratic), r v can go to the roots of the democracy and can see wht are the basics of democracy....

Agreed with Sajid,

But apart with this, I would like to add one more thing that we haven't witnessed true democracy in our country. But while comparing dectatorship and democracy which we have experienced in our country, I would cast my vote for Musharaf's and Ayyub's dectatorship which was far more better than many democratic governments.

Regards,
Kashif (Improving English:) do don't worry)

Essentials of Democracy!
 

As you know people are very less educated and backward in mostly areas of Pakistan esp in Sindh & Baluchistan.
They even don't know about their basic human rights.
How can you expect from them that they could elect right candidate or Party.

Can u......:D

[QUOTE=sameen;159485]My statement was crystal clear. There was no ambiguity incorporated in that. You know you are quoting a wrong example. As per your views we have democracy at present but in my opinion we do not have democracry at all. So my statement stands valid.

Who says that we have democracy at present?[/QUOTE]



[B]we have democracy.but unfortunately it is the perverted or worst form of democracy.in my earlier post to this thread i hv defined both the forms of government systems.[/B]
[B][SIZE="2"][COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"]before u ppl discuss democracy or any other form of government u shud know what these systems actually and exactly mean,what r their best and worst forms etc.in this thread i observed that some people really lacked the proper theoretical understanding of these very important systems.plz friends dont mind but it is the constructive criticism that i m making.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

SalamTO All member"s!
Well let me share some points from side .... in my openion democracy is best then the dectatorship...... question reses that why?
so the answer shoud be in this way..... answer is this democracy can do better rule and workis in better way then the militry dictatorship as we know that due to of dectatorship today we are ib backword area and by touching moon we are touching the stones .. to bring happiness days for nation dictatorship has broght bloody days every where in pakistan just bllods are there there is no any human who become happy or who is passing a life every one afrading of terror......
but the democracy is better why because it can bring a ruls and regulation in humnty life and by the democracy to we are going to count in list atomic power countries..... if there were dectatorship so i dont no what were position.
well may allah bless allof us ..
and give a good peacfull days and make pakistan a peacfull country.

[SIZE="2"][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]What I think about this onerous question is, that only to vote for one is not enough that democracy is good or dictatorship. There is no second opinion on the matter of true democracy, but the point worth mentioning her is, that our democratic system is not updated and tailored according to the frame and structure of our country. The soul of democracy lies in literacy rate, of which we are ruthlessly deprived.

There are five institutions which make real democracy.

1. Independent Judiciary
2. Free Media
3. Sovereign Parliament
4. Strong Army
5. Balanced Executive

Alhamdulilah! Now we can say, that our Judiciary is independent and media is free to some extent and Army is also strong as usual, but the problem arises when we talk about Sovereign Parliament and Balanced Executive. We know, neither Parliament is sovereign, nor Executive is balanced. There are many faults and flaws in our ill-suited democracy. As I mentioned earlier, that we have only adopted the slogan of democracy without knowing the ground realities of our state. Now, it is time to reshape this democratic system.

Here are some suggestions to make it more viable and liable.

1. Educational Reforms in whole of the country.

2. There should be an institute for the top tier student, who come in the field of politics.

3. Without Passing at least 18 years education, no one should be allowed to contest elections for National Assembly and 16 years of education for provincial assemblies should be mandatory.

4. Only highly-educated, renowned, competent and deserving personalities should be nominated for the high offices of President and Prime Minister. President and Prime Minister should be elected directly by people not by Parliament.

5. All Institution should be equally powerful.

These aforementioned suggestion, if implemented in real sense, could literally flourish the slogan of democracy.

Regards

[/FONT][/SIZE]

[QUOTE=shah110;159785][SIZE="2"][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]

There are five institutions which make real democracy.

1. Independent Judiciary
2. Free Media
3. Sovereign Parliament
4. Strong Army
5. Balanced Executive


[/FONT][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Hi,

I like your approach, but what is meant by Strong Army? The military is the need of any country. But if they are strong (like in Pakistan or many South American countries), won't they like to govern? Won't they stage a coup-de-etat? All the points that you have described are indeed the markers to judge a democracy. But, I believe, the real democracy is the one in which the ultimate power resides with the public. It is a system in which people have the final say in any matter of the government. "govt of the people, by the people, for the people."
Once we have this power, all other organs of state (executive, judiciary, legislature) will be held accountable to the people. so, they will act in their own sphere of powers which would be sanctioned by the people.

As per my understanding current form of democracy is not the solution for underdeveloped or developing countries in developing period.

This might be a necessity for developed countries but it is a luxury for developing ones.

Previously we had a discussion on this forum. If somebody is interested to go through it, here is the link.

[url]http://www.cssforum.com.pk/general/discussion/23507-pakistan-democracy-proposals.html[/url]

In present day situation common man does not have the aptitude to evaluate or elect competent rulers. First common should be given education, made socially free and mentally strong to evaluate and elect their ruler.

Dictatorship is also not a long term solution. In short term it might produce better results but finally it has to end.

[QUOTE=Sajid Sadeem;159869]Hi,
I believe, the real democracy is the one in which the ultimate power resides with the public. It is a system in which people have the final say in any matter of the government. "govt of the people, by the people, for the people."
Once we have this power, all other organs of state (executive, judiciary, legislature) will be held accountable to the people. so, they will act in their own sphere of powers which would be sanctioned by the people.[/QUOTE]

I liked the hope embedded in your version but would you please be kind enough to elaborate your point? Masses have always voted and the politicians have always ruled, no matter how corrupt they are and with each new moon the hopes are fading away to have a leader. So how can this dream turns into reality that these cronies will someday be accountable to the nation having in mind the differences between common man and ruling elites?

[QUOTE=Legend;159897]I liked the hope embedded in your version but would you please be kind enough to elaborate your point? Masses have always voted and the politicians have always ruled, no matter how corrupt they are and with each new moon the hopes are fading away to have a leader. So how can this dream turns into reality that these cronies will someday be accountable to the nation having in mind the differences between common man and ruling elites?[/QUOTE]

Hi,

By using our power of votes, gentleman.
what u are saying in your post is the accountability (ihtsaab), not the basic structure of democracy which i discussed.
Yet the question as to how can v bring such ideal democracy into reality is important. the answer lies in giving people more democracy. More democracy is the cure of any corrupt democracy. let me explain, young people like you and me were born in the 80's (a dictatorship), raised in mediocre democracies (90's), grew up in dictatorship again (00's). v have witnessed how worse a dictatorship can be even against a mediocre democracy. what should v do? v should use our votes to bring change (one way of bringing change, the other is the revolt). so even if our new democratic leaders are no better than the military dictators, they are good because it is we who has brought them to power. they have not imposed themselves upon us. they have not usurped power like a dictator. and if v don't find them able enough to rule us, v can again change them via votes. that's the real democracy. similarly, our generation should neither tolerate such incompetent leaders as u have suggested nor the military dictators, v must find new leaders who would be able to serve and lead us better.

Aslam o alakoom

Wel alot has already been said, but still thier has to be said

I think that the words, followed by democracy and dictatorship pretty much defines wat ever we are arguing on..........

If i ask an innocent boy who does know the meaning of Worst and smooth going, i think he will go for the right one, no offence.

wel we yet have not proved to be a great democratic nation, and neither had we proved at least modarate, but our dictators have ruled for most of the time since our freedom.

I agree with the definations given by a fellow member, we do not understand much abt any of the govt's we are talking abt? if we say that the worst democracy is far more better then smooth going dictatorship then i am sorry sir to disgrace you that our democrates has never been able to last for more then three years not to talk abt the democrates who has last for more thn 8 years, yet giving way to the democrates to come forward and prove themself and satisfy the needs of the nation, what theses democrates do afterwards, we all have seen that.

The harsh truth is that the democratic govt has failed us again and agian. and yeah we are the people who select our leaders to role upon us, by thier very good attitude, Humour, Debates and on we are once more promised to provide every need, bt at last the last for several years, satisfy thier needs and then one of the Good presendent has to announce that due to the unsatisfactory result of the past election and the corruption done by the legislatives we here by disolve all the provincial and fedral assemblies.

we pray for the worst dictatot to die so his crule rule may end bt i cant see the way we can remove a democratic govt? That is in our country.

so dnt gt it the wrong way bt words speaks for themselves.

Regards

@ Sajid Sadeem

Sir, definitely I must endorse your point of view, but my literal meaning of mentioning Strong Army was not to cope against the Government, rather it was a kind of balancing the whole institution. And Army Should be Strong enough to safeguard the golden rules of democracy and to safeguard the borders, instead of breaking them.

Regards and Reverence

Mr. wshaikh.
I don't agree that dictatorship is good. I think you want to say this, because I got this.

It is true that the development of democracy takes time, for example recent condition of America, England.

In my opinion, Democracy is just a myth !

no single person hs right to dictate million of ppl...worst democracy
z better thn a best o best dictorship...democracy z the name
of patience&an abiltiy to liseten every one' point of view...

hi, Mahakhan.2008,
I subscribe to your viewpoint.let me put it in an another.We are all here on this forum to share and express our knowledge,ideas and opinions.This is,to me,a democratic forum since we freely express our ideas and thoughts.ok.,it may not be an ideal forum or even u can say that it is of the worst form as it fails to provide any pracatical help to any aspiring candidate.Some may say that it is a total wastage of time to log in to the forum.Some may opine that since the forum is of a non-official nature and doesnot accept any kind of responsibility, so why should one resort to it.But ladies and gentlemen,this is the beauty of the forum that atleast u find a vent through it.And had it been managed by a very ''wise'' and ''far-sighted'' dictator,it would not have been possible for us to articulate ouselves in such a liberal fashion.Now u disagree with me,as we all agree to disagree,and this is ''Democracy''.
with regards
ASAD

@Maha & Asad:

Well put. Maha is right about patience and disagreement and Asad has given a great example. 'Agree to disagree', that's also the characteristic of Democracy :). do so in Dictatorship and u vl be hanging by a rope :(

Well my point... there is nothing like a worst democracy...if it is bad, worse or worst...it is no democracy at all...yet i don't find this system feasible nor workable!

the democratic nations of the world today are not even democratic! nor was greece!

Democracy, A system Perfect or Struggling?
 

It would be better to take into account the statement of "The Introducer(s) of Democracy".
What we know about democracy is just that it is a perfect form of government as it is a rule of people. But "Rule of People" has never had its real meanings. That why Winstion Charchil once said:

"No one pretends that democracy is perfect or elusive. Indeed it has been said that the democracy is the worst from of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time"

His statement clearly reflects the shortcomings of this form of government. Here this point should be noted that he is describing the shortcomings of "Real Democracy" rather than "Worst Democracy".

My point is that:

== if smooth dictatorship is not good, then smooth democracy is also not perfect.
== if worst democracy is acceptable, then smooth democracy is definitely acceptable.
== but more crucial is the problem that neither Real Democracy nor Smooth Dictatorship is best form of government, there is dire need of some Best form of Government.

A very nice discussion indeed.

I would like to point that our constitution, despite a number of amendments, allows the democratic form of the Govt. and not the dictatorship and every dictator had to justify his rule by issuing some kind of PCO of his own. So in a way they are aware that they are doing a thing which is not justified.

So I support any form of the Democracy even like the present one due to the fact that it is backed by the Constitution of our Homeland, so in order to make the dictatorship our form of Govt. our constitution needs to be shaped likewise. And further the oath taken by the Army officers also needs to be amended and it should say that "they will be bound to participate in the politics and in their free time would consider guarding the boundaries of this country".

Dear ones I would never vote in the favour of dictators unless it is backed by our constitution.

We are still on the old road..
 

Worst democracy is better than stable dictatorship because at least under democracy, people have the rights but under dictatorship there is no law, only the dictator decides everything. Our country is a good example, what the dictators have done to this nation is known by many of us. The great leaders were hanged, what can be more miserable for this country that those people who spoke for the people of Pakistan were murdered by the dictators. I feel ashamed when people still say that dictatorship is more suitable. I want ask what have the dictators given to this country? "Suicide Attacks", "Kidnapping of Balochis", "Political Victimization", "Artificial Economic Stability by Foreign Aid", "Instability in the Country", "Human Rights Violation", "Empowerment of the Army Institution", "No Accountability of Government".

What else is left?