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  #11  
Old Tuesday, February 09, 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irshadsod View Post
DMG can better handle police department instead of Nazim. Educational level of Nazim upto Matric is nothing in the field of administrating such a complex and often highly trained and qualified civil servant.

In addition to this, Obaid has rightly pointed out that a Nazim can't live at arms length and can't isolate himself from the political pressures. Nazim is prone to the undue pressures which ultimately have to be shifted to the shoulders of Police department. So it is not a wise decision to permit police department free of without check and balance of any effective authority. Nazim is weak in putting check and balance on police due to following factors:
1) Educational difference, technically lacking sound understanding
2) Nazim has to get undue favors from Police, hence accountability of police won't be initiated
3) Nazim has lesser financial powers and lesser clear cut doted lines. Lot of ambiguities prevail in the system.
i totally agree with irshadsod and OBAID, and must appreciate their insight. In addition to this LG 01 was quite a weird system, lacking administrative hierarchy. Irshadshod has discussed the case of police and so was the case of every other department at tehsil level. SO REVIVAL OF ASSISTANT COMMISSIONERS 'll fill this gap....

Things look to be moving in right direction.
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  #12  
Old Tuesday, February 09, 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAWISH View Post

well ansewr me dear members for the following things:
a-if new LG law would changed anything for the common?
b-like nazims,CSPs did misused thier powers,is there any provision in the new law to adress these wrongs?
c-why at all the annled law(LG sys 2001)cancelled the then LG sys?
d-n why exactly the old LG sys is restored again?
Here are the answers KAWISH

a)
yes, we are hopeful of it... It will bring a better administrative set up for the people.
b)
It is having a hierarchy of command and checks. In such system, it is difficult to misuse one's power.
c)
That was really a big mistake committed by then government.
d)
The old system is not being restored, rather it is a new system, though having some characteristics of 1979 LB Law.
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  #13  
Old Tuesday, February 09, 2010
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@obaid_gondal
how i wish the things were that simple they seemed apparantly!
the good law always keeps the features of enforcement in it.the administrative sys, no matter under what Bill,cannot be effective till it posses thatsalient feature. Bill says that the administerator would be an honest man etc,but has ever such conditions been met or even bothered in practice?if CSPs wronged people ,towards whom they are going to look for redress.seldom any enquiry is initiated against CSPs,n if ever initiated at all its end is never seen.
do they inserted any such provision in the new law?its justly said that we are good in drafting policies,poor in execution,because the essential element of enforceability n check n balance is always missed......
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  #14  
Old Tuesday, February 09, 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAWISH View Post
@obaid_gondal
the administrative sys, no matter under what Bill,cannot be effective till it posses thatsalient feature. Bill says that the administerator would be an honest man etc,but has ever such conditions been met or even bothered in practice?if CSPs wronged people ,towards whom they are going to look for redress
this thread is not about The appointment of Administrators, rather it is about the system succeeding it moreover salient features of that Law and it's impacts on the management of district are being discussed here.

Coming to your second point:

It is not the character of a CSP or Nazim that matters, rather it is the system.
If you have a good system, even the bad people will work. On the other hand in a bad system, even good people can't work....
AND a good system requires qualified men to run it.. So as Ayesha said, things look to be moving in right direction.
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  #15  
Old Tuesday, February 09, 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obaid_gondal View Post

CM and his cabinet would keep the check and they are thorough civilians...
Will u plz enlighten me about the difference between a CM & his cabinet'z caliber & qualifications other then that they belong to even more powerful feudal structure, have more money power, in the past had more opportunities to do all the looting nd corruption so they were promoted to higher ranks

I guess the only point u may come up wid they are all BA pass unlike a Nazim. Well my bro i can assure u tht half o those sitting in PA have fake degrees(Some have been proven guilty other were smart enough to avoid it).
Secondly a SSC certificate is a minimum qualification criteria fr a Nazim. No limit is fixed on the upper tht he has always to be a least educated person. Y dont u vote for a MA pol science, a lawyer, a MBBS, a Engr or even a phD holder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by obaid_gondal View Post
In all well governed countries, police is never given a free ride. It is kept under a check. Last regime tried to give Nazims the power to keep the check . But it failed Because a political figure can't be neutral....He has friends and foes And he has to support them in any case. So Nazims used the power to suppress their opponents, victimization and supporting their corrupt friends.
So DMG is the only option.
A political figure cant be neutral so how u expect the CM n his cabinet to put a effective nd unbiased check. They must be men from Mars!!
Secondly u said the unlike a political figure a DMG officer can keep himself at arms length from the general public. Here my bro my observation is tht, agreed that a Nazim has more interaction with general public but tht general public doesnt influences his decisions. Those who affect his decisions are only abt 1% of the people he interacts with nd tht 1% is the social circle of a DMG officer who affect his decision making too. So there is no difference in reality. If a person is nt strong enough to take pressure nd be still be up right, he ll become a part of corruption be it the Nazim or a DMG

U may always differ 2 me
Regards
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Last edited by Andrew Dufresne; Tuesday, February 09, 2010 at 08:44 PM. Reason: S_Ranjha requested to edit
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  #16  
Old Tuesday, February 09, 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obaid_gondal View Post
this thread is not about The appointment of Administrators, rather it is about the system succeeding it moreover salient features of that Law and it's impacts on the management of district are being discussed here.

Coming to your second point:

It is not the character of a CSP or Nazim that matters, rather it is the system.
If you have a good system, even the bad people will work. On the other hand in a bad system, even good people can't work....
AND a good system requires qualified men to run it.. So as Ayesha said, things look to be moving in right direction.
brother a corrupt system is far more harmful than a corrupt individual!
keep praying for the motherland.....
Regards
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Stop counting your problems rather raise for their solution and BEGIN JIHAD.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dreams alone makes the life SERENE but SPURIOUS..
Reality alone makes the life STABLE but STAGANANT..
BE A REALIST DREAMER....
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And for how long are we still going to hate ourselves for the only reason that nobody loves us!!!
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  #17  
Old Tuesday, February 09, 2010
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Post @kawesh

Quote:
Originally Posted by KAWISH View Post
brother a corrupt system is far more harmful than a corrupt individual!
keep praying for the motherland.....
Regards
Y WE FORGET THAT A CORRUPT SYSTEM IS THE PRODUCT OF CORRUPT INDIVIDUALS...Our System is corrupt because we are corrupt......don't blame others..we absolve ourselves from all faults by simply holding others responsible for our mistakes....its "we" who to blame........Its our fault not the systems or any other ,and its "we" who make the system.

Only prayers cant change the fate of nations......it requires action......as Iqbal said

Khuda ny aaj tak us qom ki halat nahi badli

Na ho jis ko khayal aap apni halat k badalnay ka

Do we have any such intentions............?

Answer is obvious......
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  #18  
Old Tuesday, February 09, 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Ranjha View Post
Will u plz enlighten me about the difference between a CM & his cabinet'z caliber & qualifications other then that they belong to even more powerful feudal structure, have more money power, in the past had more opportunities to do all the looting nd corruption so they were promoted to higher ranks
yes brother, there is a hell of difference between a CM and Nazim... You need a bit of money to be Nazim but being CM requires much more charisma, acumen and political participation. So CM is never as ordinary as Nazim is..

Secondly CM has a number of experts to guide him in his decisions. That fills all the deficiencies of abilities. We can't even imagine to provide that much experts in a district.

Now as for as being politicized is concerned, CM would at the most favour his own district not every one in the province... (And they do favour that much, no doubt), so most of the province would be managed in a better way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_ranjha View Post
secondly u said the unlike a political figure a dmg officer can keep himself at arms length from the general public. Here my bro my observation is tht, agreed that a nazim has more interaction with general public but tht general public doesnt influences his decisions. Those who affect his decisions are only abt 1% of the people he interacts with nd tht 1% is the social circle of a dmg officer who affect his decision making too. so there is no difference in reality. If a person is nt strong enough to take pressure nd be still be up right, he ll become a part of corruption be it the nazim or a dmg
Mr Ranjha, Civil servants are not posted in their own districts, so they can't have a social circle equivalent to Nazim(impossible). So they are not forced or pushed by culprits as Nazims or other political men are pushed.
.
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  #19  
Old Tuesday, February 09, 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oriental View Post
Y WE FORGET THAT A CORRUPT SYSTEM IS THE PRODUCT OF CORRUPT INDIVIDUALS...Our System is corrupt because we are corrupt......don't blame others..we absolve ourselves from all faults by simply holding others responsible for our mistakes....its "we" who to blame........Its our fault not the systems or any other ,and its "we" who make the system.

Only prayers cant change the fate of nations......it requires action......as Iqbal said

Khuda ny aaj tak us qom ki halat nahi badli

Na ho jis ko khayal aap apni halat k badalnay ka

Do we have any such intentions............?

Answer is obvious......

It is not necessary sir.

corrupt system may be created/produced by an honest BUT LESS EFFICIENT individual. Creation of Systems is all about intention and efficiency.
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  #20  
Old Tuesday, February 09, 2010
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@oriental
its appriciable to know the nation is awake n concious!!!

@the supporters of new LG bill
pls help me understand how this new bill is going to be anything hopeful.

@all respected members:
NOTE:im a neutral ,pls dont take me as the opposer r supporter f any bill.rather im making u to help me farming my opinion far or againt this new bill.
Regards
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Stop counting your problems rather raise for their solution and BEGIN JIHAD.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dreams alone makes the life SERENE but SPURIOUS..
Reality alone makes the life STABLE but STAGANANT..
BE A REALIST DREAMER....
-----------------------------------------------
And for how long are we still going to hate ourselves for the only reason that nobody loves us!!!
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