So nobody here is allowed to have a different view point? Does it make it some kind of legacy? Ask about democracy and I truly expect a lengthy essay but what I failed to see is the essence of democracy in our daily lives.
If you people don't agree to TSA's point of view, then shoot yours, decorated with some facts, paint in the color of reality but believe me; here you wont find any teacher who will teach you how to behave in a public forum.

uffff itni negative thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you still live in Pakistan?

Agreed on these positive steps.

Dear fellows, i m not anti PPPP or pro Mushraf of pro Nawaz, i had voted for PPPP in the recent elections, but what for ground situations? this is only a mess by politicians of all the parties and off course leading party is no exception to it.... If Zardari is not good thn equally Nawaz, Altaf, Maualanas, Chaudhries are equally worse. But alas is for us that we Pakistanis are still sleeping ...

My simple question is what will be the net result of all these amendments ? Will common man, who is more than 90% of total population of the country, get any benefit?? and the answer is a big NO. thn why to clamour over these things?

Pakistan is not a baby to have experiments it is around 63 years of age, this is not justified that two years is nothing for making any good thing, fellows two years could have been good if have been utilized properly, we are just listening slogans and promises that all will be good sooon...

So far as i m concerned, yes i have done much for the goodness of my nation and had off couse suffered many ill things and heard of bad statements because i try for the betterment of my people not of the ruling class, they are very corrupt and try to make things in their favour by hook or by crook, simply arm twisting and their things are done... Practical life is not so good to just raise slogans in support of one party or the other, open up your minds.. Why they are doing all ths mess with our country, because they are ruling class and Pakistan it is their fathers land whatever they want they do!!!!

You all are intelligent and have a mind to think, just estimate the prices of every commodity and inflation, unemployment ratio, Pakistan's relations with other countries, development speed and incline in poorness of common people... do you think that a labourer with monthly income of 5000 having only 2-3 school going childern can survive ?? Prosperity will be a distant call for him, he will be in a great fix to even his daily expenditures meet!!

Just put on your electricty bill and see what you have to pay, we all have to pay additional surcharge of oil price . why so ? are we not paying full amount of electricity? come on fellows dont be over enthusiastic with the situation of country, we need wake up calll ... ..

You all are revolving good performance of the government and 18th amendment but i am trying to direct your attention to end result of all these things? its a common saying that all is well that ends well and apparently there will not be a good end, thn why to be jubilant over it !

My thinking and question is hovering on just only one point, 'what is good for a common man of the country now' ...

__________________
'Thee woh ik shakhs kay tasawar saay - abb woh ranayee khayal kahaan'

Respected Members,

I do agree as we must consider the debate ethics.

TSA is a nice and well informed guy and indeed he deserves the respect but many of people have their different view points so we must appreciate instead of pushing them to corner.

TSA did use emotional tone while commenting on the issue like any learned authority of the country and I like, also respect his view as the path of progress consists of following 3 steps (I have already mentioned in one of my previous posts):

1) Defficiency highlighting

2) Confession of your failures

3) Trying to improve lackings

All above steps require the listening attitude which we don't have, unfortunately.

PPP is the largest party in Pakistan and no doubt she contributed a lot in Pakistan's systematic improvement, even the blood of her leadership.

Current PPP and Z A Bhutto's party has many contradictions, "Vision of the leader makes the difference". All participants and readers are requested to judge by their own.

I couldn't concieve the reason why should we not give Mr. Zardari the credit for 18th ammendment even he tried to constitute it with much devotion.

PPP is a leftist party who should care for poor, but unfortunately due to many additional reasons as TSA did highlight with the primary reason of leadership vision lacking, they couldn't deliver the things.

It is not the ultimate failures as I couldn't find any leader with the same calibre of Z A Bhutto in post-Bhutto regime.

We are responsible for the losses as Leaders are born by birth and they must be respected.

All members, Please response my following queries:

1) Is 18th ammendment a good effort ??

2) Does President Zardari deserve for the credit ??

3) What is the hype behind this ammendment which has already taken much time of the nation ??

I will surely wait for kind comments from your prestigious side

Kind Regards


I have found TSA a true follower of Bhutto bu his vision, I appreciate his emotional remarks

__________________
You cannot hate a person when you know him

@ Floydian and TSA.

So you think that during "honourable" Musharraf government there was no inflation, unemployment, energy crisis in the country. It is this government that has not built dams, not provided empoyment, not checked inflation. Let the government complete 5 years, then one can argue on its performance.
As far as 18th amendment is concerned it is a very important step, because the constitution has to be put on the right track. The dictatorial amendments have to be purged from the constitution. If Zardari was criticised for not giving up the powers then he must get credit for this amendment. It is easy to criticise the government because it takes nothing, but it is a different ball game when it comes to performance.

Plus i think that along with Zia, the name of "honourable" Musharraf must also be removed from the constitution.

__________________
CSS 2009, 2010, 2011 Qualifier

Come on shallowwater, dont make perceptions at the outset. Re-read my posts, I have never defended or supported musharraf neither i am supporter of Nawaz, Altaf or Maulanas, I am putting my concerns on the end results of all these things, what will be the ultimate benefit to the masses? Our thinking must not be centered to politicians and their doings, we must have broader thinking level for our country. what will our country and its 95 % people will be getting out of all these things ?

As regards inflation, unemployment, energy crisis in the country etc. its easy to put all blames on muharraf, but what this government has done!!! Alas nothing tangible has been done by them either...

After five years next government will come and they will be putting all blames on poor performance of this government and this blame game will continue.. who will be sufferers? the common people and the Pakistan only.

__________________
'Thee woh ik shakhs kay tasawar saay - abb woh ranayee khayal kahaan'

@ TSA.

Yes, you are right you did not defend Musharraf in your posts. You see constitutions are the backbone of good governance. If the constitution would be riddled with dictatorial amendments then good governance would remain a distant dream. Now it was not an easy task to amend 100 articles and that too with the consensus of all the political parties. 18th amendment has a lot to do with the miseries faced by the people. Now the president can't send packing a democratically elected government on his discretion. The government has to do a lot, there is no denying the fact. The problems are there but some one has to solve them; if we will have elections every two years then how can we ensure good governance? Prime Minister has to be the center of power,18th amendment has done this. All the problems were not created overnight neither can they be got rid of overnight. Years of dictatorial rule resulted in East Pakistan crisis. This government atleast is trying to avert the crisis in Balochistan. It is necessary that credit must be given where it is due. The supreme court seems obsessed with one case out of thousands of NRO cases, as a result of which another tug of war has started between government and judiciary.

__________________
CSS 2009, 2010, 2011 Qualifier

What a nice method to show your anger, animity, biaseness, hostility and all similar things against any body. Then covering up in a way that you were the only supporter, staunch beleiver of same party. MQM does the same thing as you have done. They murder many people and then own the dead bodies that these are our own party workers and they play a politics of Janaz e Namaza, strike, 3 days sogh, and hand over some amount to the heirs of dead bodies.

I hate MQM becuase it is a terrorist organization. I have never voted for MQM and can never do so. If I want to criticize MQM and want to through mud on that party on my personal prejudices I have learned very good trick from you that first I should claim that I voted for MQM and I was great supporter of it but then after seeing their brutality I have come to the conclusion that MQM is terrorist, anti state, corrupt, coercive, inhuman, fascist organization. It is collection of Gundas, and is funded by international enemies of Pakistan. Very Good dear. Very good.

One should have courage to admit that I dislike this party, I have never voted this party because of my ideological differences and this party has such and such negative things.

I wonder what this thread is about. Zardari or TSA?

__________________
The Me you have always known, the Me that's a stranger still.