Tuesday, November 30, 2021
07:19 PM (GMT +5)

Go Back   CSS Forums > General > Discussion

Discussion Discuss current affairs and issues helpful in CSS only.

Reply Share Thread: Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook     Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter     Submit Thread to Google+ Google+    
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old Friday, April 30, 2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 112
Thanks: 23
Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts
javed_iqbal7863 is on a distinguished road
Default How to Protect Urdu?

Urdu, national language of Pakistan. which is at 4th in the world ranking. This language has a hoarded wealth of literature. Many famous persons have unique identification in the world due to their work in Urdu literature, like Mirza Ghalib Meer Taqi Meer, Allama Iqbal etc. but, now, this famous language is facing broblems. you people will decide whether it is going to be a dead language or will remain and maintain its status.
As writing system i .e Nastaliq script, of this language is different from the other languages like English scrip, Roman script and Hindi script etc. In modern ages people are using mobiles and internet as a medium, for their communications. they write urdu words in english scrip because most of the computers and mobiles have no urdu editors.
world famous companies are not interested to build urdu editors. as Google has more than 50 languages translators, but not has Urdu translator, although Urdu is 4th popular language, why they are not having editor or translator . is it Google's biasing towards Urdu?
Pakistani peoples are not interested to send their children to Urdu medium schools. It has become a status symbol, to sen children to English medium school.
some people say that Indian movies are doing great for the promotion of Urdu language. Some say, not only movies but our literature which is written in Urdu is the source of the promotion of Urdu language, they say, we must take interest in Urdu literature. We must write enough literary books.

now I would like to raise some questions.
in future, will Urdu be disappeared from the surface of the earth?
Can we not build Urdu editors at to compete the editors of other languages?
Is it Google's biasing towards Urdu that it doesn't have Urdu translator like translators of other languages?
Are literary persons not interested to do work in Urdu?
Are Indian films really doing any work to make Urdu famous?
what will be the effect of new writing system?
Is our new generation not interested in Urdu?
Will English replace Urdu?
How can we protect our language?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old Friday, April 30, 2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Heart of Pakistan
Posts: 7
Thanks: 3
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
xena1806 is on a distinguished road
Default Take step to protect Urdu Language

Hi, I m really happy to see the post.. i agree with you javed.

Many people are taking interest in the language. Like CRULP(Center for research in Urdu language Processing) , which is running by Professor Dr, Sarmad Hussian. He belongs to IT field but working for Pakistani Languages. You may visit the site... www.crulp.org. The Center is working for Languages +IT.

CRULP has developed Online Urdu dictionary, Nokia Urdu software, Text to speech system etc. Recently CRULP have completed a project, named Dareecha, which has localized some computer applications in Urdu language. I observe that many famous people from Urdu Literature are not working for their language. People read the Urdu stuff but just for entertainment. Nobody knows the importance of our national language and our heritage of Urdu Literature.
__________________
Rind bakHshey gaye qayamat mein
Sheikh kehta raha hisaab Hisaab!!!

Last edited by Andrew Dufresne; Friday, April 30, 2010 at 04:25 PM. Reason: Tone and format of a post should not be like an advertisement or spam. Thanks for your understanding.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old Friday, April 30, 2010
maliasghar's Avatar
39th CTP (DMG)
CSP Medal: Awarded to those Members of the forum who are serving CSP Officers - Issue reason: CE 2010 - Merit  09Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason:
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Islamabad
Posts: 365
Thanks: 153
Thanked 912 Times in 344 Posts
maliasghar is a glorious beacon of lightmaliasghar is a glorious beacon of lightmaliasghar is a glorious beacon of lightmaliasghar is a glorious beacon of lightmaliasghar is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Quote:
in future, will Urdu be disappeared from the surface of the earth?
Will English replace Urdu?
That would indeed be pessimistic to think like that. Even though the language is not being developed the same way, as it should have been, still there are some people and institutions which are working to keep it alive and growing. Yes, you are right in one way that if we do not act meaningfully now, the language, in a longer period of time might die its own death. The mixing of different languages in it, especially the english words which are considered fashionable these days, is in fact a manifestation of this phenomenon. The language might not die per se, but it will be so corrupted that it would be hard to identify it as such.

Quote:
Can we not build Urdu editors at to compete the editors of other languages?
Is it Google's biasing towards Urdu that it doesn't have Urdu translator like translators of other languages?
A few people have indeed made attempts at creating these editors. But, for such an effort we should not rely on others i.e. foreign multinationals, but it should be an indigenous effort. Software houses within Pakistan should make efforts in this regard. But you should also understand their dilemma that most of these concerns, local or international, are driven by market demand. There isn't any appreciable demand of urdu editors, apart from low level word processing requirements in courts, and public offices. One reason is that at all middle and higher levels, English is used as the medium. One thing more that we should understand is that mapping urdu script and its grammar on digital machines is not as trivial. Microsoft has attempted in its Office Suit. You can explore that.
One solution to this is to initiate an open source movement. This type of movement is led by free lancers, where everyone is allowed to contribute towards the development of any software in their free time. This contribution demands no remuneration and is available free of cost to everyone. This enables wide scale testing, use and development of software.

Quote:
Are literary persons not interested to do work in Urdu?
They are interested and certainly they are doing a lot of work too. But on the contrary not many people are interested in reading their work. How many times have we ourselves read a good urdu novel, or a literary piece. It has been ingrained in our mindset to look for an english reading, be it a book, novel or newspaper.

Quote:
Are Indian films really doing any work to make Urdu famous?
Yes, it is ironic to say, but yes they are. In fact, the reason the Bollywood movies are produced in increasingly simple (read urdu) language is that they want to capture a wider array of audience and thus more market. Pakistan is one such big market of their productions.

Quote:
Is our new generation not interested in Urdu?
Sadly, that is true. In effect this internet era has destroyed their sense of urdu language, its composition and structure. Weak though it used to be, but at least schools were a good instrument at teaching students with language.

Quote:
How can we protect our language?
Start reading urdu newspapers, novels. This would create a demand for the literature and more and more people would come up to produce it.
__________________
Muhammad Ali Asghar
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to maliasghar For This Useful Post:
javed_iqbal7863 (Monday, May 03, 2010)
  #4  
Old Sunday, May 02, 2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 112
Thanks: 23
Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts
javed_iqbal7863 is on a distinguished road
Default

@maliasghar

Dear Muhammad Ali Asghar! Your idea of launching open source movement to built high quality Urdu editors and other software to promote Urdu language in the world, is highly appreciable. we must work hard to make urdu a popular and alive language. We must take steps to integrate Urdu script in digital machines. Only one person or organization cannot do this, your idea of open source development of Urdu software can solve this problem, but who will initiate it?

The other thing which irritates me, whenever i think about it is that our new generation is not interested in learning Urdu. They are fond of English literature and English music etc. they know much about William Shakespeare, William Makepeace Thackeray, Thomas Hardy and Leo Tolstoy. They, even, don't know about Meer Taqi Meer, Ibrahim Zauq, Mira Asad ullah Khan Ghalib, shaifta and Momin Khan Momin etc. How can we make our new generation interested in Urdu literature?


Quote:
Originally Posted by xena1806 View Post
Hi, I m really happy to see the post.. i agree with you javed.

Many people are taking interest in the language. Like CRULP(Center for research in Urdu language Processing) , which is running by Professor Dr, Sarmad Hussian. He belongs to IT field but working for Pakistani Languages. You may visit the site... www.crulp.org. The Center is working for Languages +IT.

CRULP has developed Online Urdu dictionary, Nokia Urdu software, Text to speech system etc. Recently CRULP have completed a project, named Dareecha, which has localized some computer applications in Urdu language. I observe that many famous people from Urdu Literature are not working for their language. People read the Urdu stuff but just for entertainment. Nobody knows the importance of our national language and our heritage of Urdu Literature.
Dear! I went through the website which was described by you, but could not find any valuable thing, which would help to promote Urdu Language. It is a just a commercial website which develops software for earning money.the topic of discussion is "how to promote Urdu Language?" We will really appreciate your suggestion on this topic. this forum is not for commercial advertisement.

Last edited by Andrew Dufresne; Sunday, May 02, 2010 at 10:08 AM. Reason: Merged
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old Sunday, May 02, 2010
Maha Khan's Avatar
Senior Member
Qualifier: Awarded to those Members who cleared css written examination - Issue reason: CE 2009Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason:
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Punjab
Posts: 1,782
Thanks: 228
Thanked 2,339 Times in 1,259 Posts
Maha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by javed_iqbal7863 View Post

now I would like to raise some questions.
in future, will Urdu be disappeared from the surface of the earth?
Can we not build Urdu editors at to compete the editors of other languages?
Is it Google's biasing towards Urdu that it doesn't have Urdu translator like translators of other languages?
Are literary persons not interested to do work in Urdu?
Are Indian films really doing any work to make Urdu famous?
what will be the effect of new writing system?
Is our new generation not interested in Urdu?
Will English replace Urdu?
How can we protect our language?
Dear,urdu is not going to disappear from the surface of the earth...Though Urdu is our Official Language,yet we seldom use it in Official works...but inspite of this,every Pakistani,no matter,where he lives(sindh,Punjab,Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa,Balochistan)understands Urdu,..thats why urdu is our National language..
yes,Google should have urdu translator like other languages of the world.
Indain movies have played a major role in the Popualrization of urdu language..but now our generation are used to mix hindi with Urdu language..i was amazed to listen a coversation b/w two children during my travel..they were like"mere Pitta Shirawati ne kha hai k first aao ge to video game le k dun ga"etc.....the other child also used Hindi,he said during his gossip"muje is mamle ki jankari nhi"....ironically their mothers were calm and didnot say anything to them..
our new generation is not interested in Urdu,simply because they considered it a waste of time to read Urdu Novels and fiction..
our literary persons are interested to do work in urdu..but their work is not highlighted by electronic media..
English will replace urdu in Educational&Business institutions...You can see any job Advertisement,in which it would be clearly mentioned by the company'owners"Proficieny in English Language is must"..
Take the example of CSS exam,where only good English is required to get through the exam..why??
__________________
Fight for your dreams & your dreams will fight for you.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Maha Khan For This Useful Post:
javed_iqbal7863 (Monday, May 03, 2010)
  #6  
Old Sunday, May 02, 2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 112
Thanks: 23
Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts
javed_iqbal7863 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maha Khan View Post
Dear,urdu is not going to disappear from the surface of the earth...Though Urdu is our Official Language,yet we seldom use it in Official works...but inspite of this,every Pakistani,no matter,where he lives(sindh,Punjab,Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa,Balochistan)understands Urdu,..thats why urdu is our National language..
yes,Google should have urdu translator like other languages of the world.
Indain movies have played a major role in the Popualrization of urdu language..but now our generation are used to mix hindi with Urdu language..i was amazed to listen a coversation b/w two children during my travel..they were like"mere Pitta Shirawati ne kha hai k first aao ge to video game le k dun ga"etc.....the other child also used Hindi,he said during his gossip"muje is mamle ki jankari nhi"....ironically their mothers were calm and didnot say anything to them..
our new generation is not interested in Urdu,simply because they considered it a waste of time to read Urdu Novels and fiction..
our literary persons are interested to do work in urdu..but their work is not highlighted by electronic media..
English will replace urdu in Educational&Business institutions...You can see any job Advertisement,in which it would be clearly mentioned by the company'owners"Proficieny in English Language is must"..
Take the example of CSS exam,where only good English is required to get through the exam..why??
Dear MAha! I appreciate your feelings about Urdu Language.
Indian movies are mixture of Urdu and Hindi, these movies are getting influence on our children as you have described. how can we make aware of our Urdu language to our children.
why, our new generation considers that it is a wastage of time to read Urdu novels and fiction. is there not a good stuff of novels and fiction to read in Urdu . why, our new generation is interested in English literature. is English literature better than that of Urdu.
Germany, France, China, Russia and many other counties are providing education in their native languages then why Pakistan is having double stander in this field.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Sunday, May 02, 2010
Nauman's Avatar
34th Commons (PAAS)
CSP Medal: Awarded to those Members of the forum who are serving CSP Officers - Issue reason: Account and Audit
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Islamabad
Posts: 165
Thanks: 7
Thanked 173 Times in 86 Posts
Nauman will become famous soon enoughNauman will become famous soon enough
Default

Any language which is losing out to other languages must have inherent flaws or must be facing adverse circumstances. Urdu is no exception. Before becoming so melancholic about Urdu losing popularity, we must look at the following facts: -

Urdu, our national language, is the mother tongue of only 8% of Pakistanis. Therefore, its status as national language is debatable and questionable.

Second, Urdu has never been the language of muslims. Through out the history, Muslims have used Arabic and in South Asia, the Mughal kings used Persian. urdu is a very recent language and came into being in a particular localities of Delhi and Lucknow. Therefore, Urdu is not a symbol of Islamic brotherhood.

Third, we cannot compete in this world by sticking to Urdu at cost of English. The advanced nations such as France, China etc., who had been using national languages since near past, are also fast learning English now. In China, English professors are amongst the highest paid.

Fourth, Urdu as a national language has been unable to unite Pakistanis. People use their mopther tongues in common parlance.

Therefore, we need not worry about promoting Urdu. We should instead be learning English and create a niche for ourselves. The world has moved on from Gham-e-Jaanaan and Mehboob ki bay rukhi etc.

And lastly, Urdu is not going to die. Though it will become less and less popular with time. And we should just not be concerned about that.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Nauman For This Useful Post:
javed_iqbal7863 (Monday, May 03, 2010)
  #8  
Old Sunday, May 02, 2010
Maha Khan's Avatar
Senior Member
Qualifier: Awarded to those Members who cleared css written examination - Issue reason: CE 2009Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason:
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Punjab
Posts: 1,782
Thanks: 228
Thanked 2,339 Times in 1,259 Posts
Maha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud ofMaha Khan has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by javed_iqbal7863 View Post
Dear MAha! I appreciate your feelings about Urdu Language.

why, our new generation considers that it is a wastage of time to read Urdu novels and fiction. is there not a good stuff of novels and fiction to read in Urdu . why, our new generation is interested in English literature. is English literature better than that of Urdu.
Germany, France, China, Russia and many other counties are providing education in their native languages then why Pakistan is having double stander in this field.
Honestly,we are a Complexed Nation..there is a general Perception in Pak"Gareeb ki Urdu aur Ameer ki English achi hoti hai"...thatswhy our generation dont wana to waste their time by reading Ghalib,Faiz,Meer,Quratulain Haider etc...no doubt there is a very good stuff in Urdu novels,fiction and poetry..e.g Ghalib said"Aisi JAnnat ka kia kre koi,jis mein Lakhoon Baars ki Hoorain Hoon"see his modernity..but still many of us only know about his name and not about his poetic work...YOU have given the examples of china,Russia,France and Germany..but we cannot follow their example,You know why?Urdu vocbulary is not so much rich to decribe scientific terms,ask any doctor,he will tell you that "we cannot read in Urdu,because there are so many diseases whose name we dont find in Urdu dictionary"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nauman View Post

Urdu, our national language, is the mother tongue of only 8% of Pakistanis. Therefore, its status as national language is debatable and questionable.

.
no doubt sir,You are right,but every Pakistani Uderstands urdu,thatswhy its our national language,a Person living in khyber Pakhtoonkha,or Balochistan may be feel some difficulty to understand Punjabi,but he will know urdu
__________________
Fight for your dreams & your dreams will fight for you.

Last edited by Andrew Dufresne; Sunday, May 02, 2010 at 04:43 PM. Reason: Merged
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Maha Khan For This Useful Post:
javed_iqbal7863 (Monday, May 03, 2010)
  #9  
Old Sunday, May 02, 2010
Shaa-Baaz's Avatar
Senior Member
Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason:
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Maa k Kadmo Taley
Posts: 506
Thanks: 68
Thanked 726 Times in 277 Posts
Shaa-Baaz is a jewel in the roughShaa-Baaz is a jewel in the roughShaa-Baaz is a jewel in the roughShaa-Baaz is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maha Khan View Post
every Pakistani Uderstands urdu,

Well Urdu is developing as an International Language. Few more years, Urdu will no more be unintelligible to the world community.
__________________
●๋• ●๋• τнαπκz FΘг Reading my profile ●๋• ●๋•
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Shaa-Baaz For This Useful Post:
javed_iqbal7863 (Monday, May 03, 2010)
  #10  
Old Sunday, May 02, 2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 112
Thanks: 23
Thanked 41 Times in 33 Posts
javed_iqbal7863 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nauman View Post
Any language which is losing out to other languages must have inherent flaws or must be facing adverse circumstances. Urdu is no exception. Before becoming so melancholic about Urdu losing popularity, we must look at the following facts: -

Urdu, our national language, is the mother tongue of only 8% of Pakistanis. Therefore, its status as national language is debatable and questionable.

Second, Urdu has never been the language of muslims. Through out the history, Muslims have used Arabic and in South Asia, the Mughal kings used Persian. urdu is a very recent language and came into being in a particular localities of Delhi and Lucknow. Therefore, Urdu is not a symbol of Islamic brotherhood.

Third, we cannot compete in this world by sticking to Urdu at cost of English. The advanced nations such as France, China etc., who had been using national languages since near past, are also fast learning English now. In China, English professors are amongst the highest paid.

Fourth, Urdu as a national language has been unable to unite Pakistanis. People use their mopther tongues in common parlance.

Therefore, we need not worry about promoting Urdu. We should instead be learning English and create a niche for ourselves. The world has moved on from Gham-e-Jaanaan and Mehboob ki bay rukhi etc.

And lastly, Urdu is not going to die. Though it will become less and less popular with time. And we should just not be concerned about that.
Respected Sir! I disagree to your arguments. You have said that only 8% people's mother language is Urdu. Therefore, its status as national language is debatable and questionable.
More than 450 million people can speak Urdu, it is on the 4th position of the world ranking. According to Wikipedia its position is after English. near about everyone in Pakistan can speaks and understands Urdu. Then, why is Urdu as our national language questionable?

Yes, Urdu has never been the language of Muslims, before mughul era. Mughal King, Bahadur Shah Zafar was a great Urdu poet. Urdu was originated from the centers of Muslim traditions, which were Dehly, Agra and Lakhnow etc. Urdu came into existence due to Muslim poets and scholars. We can say Urdu is language of the Muslims of India and Pakistan.

Sir! Chinese President Hu Jintao cannot speak English, even their Foreign Minister also cannot speak English. Many people from china can speak Urdu fluently , but they are not able to speak English. if they are surviving in the world then why cannot we survive in the world without speaking English.
Urdu is our hoarded wealth we have to protect it.
INSHA ALLAH we will protect it


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



Quote:
Originally Posted by Maha Khan View Post
Urdu vocbulary is not so much rich to decribe scientific terms,ask any doctor,he will tell you that "we cannot read in Urdu,because there are so many diseases whose name we dont find in Urdu dictionary"

Dear Maha!
Urdu vocabulary is rich enough and also Urdu has the ability of absorption of other words. we can assign words from Urdu to those specific terms or we can utter those terms as those are.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
History of Urdu Literature sara soomro General Knowledge, Quizzes, IQ Tests 0 Monday, September 28, 2009 07:44 PM
Urdu Newspapers Qurratulain Journalism & Mass Communication 0 Sunday, April 23, 2006 11:26 PM
*`~Urdu Language*`~ sibgakhan Urdu Literature 0 Wednesday, February 08, 2006 05:13 PM


CSS Forum on Facebook Follow CSS Forum on Twitter

Disclaimer: All messages made available as part of this discussion group (including any bulletin boards and chat rooms) and any opinions, advice, statements or other information contained in any messages posted or transmitted by any third party are the responsibility of the author of that message and not of CSSForum.com.pk (unless CSSForum.com.pk is specifically identified as the author of the message). The fact that a particular message is posted on or transmitted using this web site does not mean that CSSForum has endorsed that message in any way or verified the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message. We encourage visitors to the forum to report any objectionable message in site feedback. This forum is not monitored 24/7.

Sponsors: ArgusVision   vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.