Pakistan's role in war on terror
 

Pakistan has put itself into the hands of such hypocrites who for their own interests can make any deal to save the current power structure. The incessant insurgency in Afghanistan, mounting hostilities in Waziristan and a perturbed domestic situation is only matched with the sheer ineptness of the current administration. Pakistan in my opinion has passed the edge of no-return in context of revitalizing the cherished democratic values and upholding the rule of law. She is incubating a revolution which will most probably initiate from the North-West.
The ramifications of Pakistan's support of US in its so called war on terror in Afghanistan might involve a total state of chaos in its own domain. The questions I will like to ask here are not only strategically vital to answer but also very crucial because we call ourselves Muslims:

1- Can Islamic values be sacrificed for national interest?
2- Pakistan's support of US against a Muslim country following sharia is considered what?
3- If tomorrow coalition forces withdraw and Afghans war on Pakistan, will they be justified?
4- Killing people in Waziristan and NWFP for their 'extremism' or 'fundamentalism' on cue from Washington portrays our independent political setup?
5- Were there any obligations on us being Muslims to help our neighbours when they most needed it?

I want you guys to be very clear at the outset about my own standing. I consider Pakistan's involvment in US war on terror as nothing but hypocricy. We, as Muslims, should had a firm stance against a non-Muslim invasion.

[QUOTE=mirzahadi;188099]

1- Can Islamic values be sacrificed for national interest?
2- Pakistan's support of US against a Muslim country following sharia is considered what?
3- If tomorrow coalition forces withdraw and Afghans war on Pakistan, will they be justified?
4- Killing people in Waziristan and NWFP for their 'extremism' or 'fundamentalism' on cue from Washington portrays our independent political setup?
5- Were there any obligations on us being Muslims to help our neighbours when they most needed it?

I want you guys to be very clear at the outset about my own standing. I consider Pakistan's involvment in US war on terror as nothing but hypocricy. We, as Muslims, should had a firm stance against a non-Muslim invasion.[/QUOTE]




[B][COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"]1- Can Islamic values be sacrificed for national interest?
[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
If ur survival demands that at a particular point of time u hv to act according to the situation cutting across the religious boundaries, I think that it is justified. because, the international politics has started being determined by secular extremism. No country, even the islamic ones, follow foreign policy keeping in view the religious relationships. it is the national interest that has always to be served.and there is nothing greater than this.

2ndly, when exactly hv we done so????
R u referring to US invasion of Afghanistan and pakistan’s role as a frontline state???
If yes, then i think that Pakistan did it right.do u know what wud hv happened to Pakistan if we had not opted for this role????
We wud hv been labeled as terrorists. Economic sanctions wud hv been imposed upon us, India wud hv beeen a frontline state against destroying us, and we wud hv bcome helpless.no muslim country wud hv come to our rescue.and even much more…that u cannot comprehend.

[B]By ur arguments, it looks that u do not keep urself abreast of the changing dynamics of international politics.
[/B]


[COLOR="Blue"][B][SIZE="3"]2- Pakistan's support of US against a Muslim country following sharia is considered what?[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

It was in our national interest.i answered already.was there shariah in Afghanistan at that time???? or Taliban monopoly and their dogmatic interpretation of Islam were prevalent?? do u know what is their interpretation of Islam???


[COLOR="Blue"][B][SIZE="3"]3- If tomorrow coalition forces withdraw and Afghans war on Pakistan, will they be justified?[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

Rest assured, we wl be safe.who will war against Pakistan?is it so easy to invade or war with Pakistan??nor they can dare justify their any war against us. And don’t u know that the afghans hv really been traditional hypocrites and always conspired to bring about our defamation???hv u gone through the pak-afghan political history???

[COLOR="Blue"][B][SIZE="3"]4- Killing people in Waziristan and NWFP for their 'extremism' or 'fundamentalism' on cue from Washington portrays our independent political setup?[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

We are allied with the world against the terrorists who have destroyed the peace not only in Pakistan but the whole world. A year before, when Pakistan provided them with a space to live and impose their system of NIFAZ-E-ISLAM, do u know what they did?? They thought that the Pakistani govt has kneeled down before the.and they started to annex the adjoining areas and eventually they wished to control the whole Pakistan.they discarded and threw out our flag of Pakistan in their areas of influence. Don’t u know them?? Are they innocents?? We wl fight them.we wl destroy them tooth and nail.





[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][B]5- Were there any obligations on us being Muslims to help our neighbours when they most needed it?[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

Bro I cud not get what u wanted to say.i wud like u to explain this statement plz.



[B][COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"]6-I want you guys to be very clear at the outset about my own standing. I consider Pakistan's involvment in US war on terror as nothing but hypocricy. We, as Muslims, should had a firm stance against a non-Muslim invasion.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

Who else is with u????\
Is there any other Islamic country to accompany u against the non-muslim invasions??


Thanx.
ALLAH BLESS U.

Salamona
 

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="DarkRed"]1- Can Islamic values be sacrificed for national interest?[/COLOR][/SIZE]

I totally disagree with my friend,who has an established opinion that keeping national interests shrouded,islamic values(santified promulgations which set and impart that all muslims are equal brothers)can however be transgressed rather breached.Islam is a chain of muslim unity and every muslim being an integral member joins the beads.It has never been a part of our faith to cudgel against your own brother on behalf an infidel.Pakistan is an atomic power and it is not that much easy to eraze such a recognized power to the ground.We have not been taught to be co-sharers of enemies against our own flesh and blood.We should not forget that this country was saught out in the name of islam,millions of innocent people placed their precious lives on the line not for the sake of national interest but for an integral islamic state where they dreamt for a libertarian islamic life.

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="3"]2- Pakistan's support of US against a Muslim country following sharia is considered what?[/SIZE][/COLOR]

i have cleared the doubts in above explicated words.

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="DarkRed"]3- If tomorrow coalition forces withdraw and Afghans war on Pakistan, will they be justified?[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Why can not we understand that pakistan has been patronizing talibans fighting in afghanistan against coaliation forces,and the same is being faught within pakistan by american support.It is not a war on terror i believe,it is a fight between pakistani and american and other international agencies,who have determined their objectives to buldoze pakistan and wrest its weapons of mass destruction.How many times afghan people have stepped in pakistan to gain control over pakistani soil before so called war on terror?The answer is probably ''never''.It is an open secret that afghan governments excluding taliban regime has been hostile against pakistan on the beck and call of india and russia.on the cotnrary i do not believe that after withdrawl of coalition forces afghan people will rush into pakistani soil.Never.

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="3"]4- Killing people in Waziristan and NWFP for their 'extremism' or 'fundamentalism' on cue from Washington portrays our independent political setup?[/SIZE][/COLOR]

As i cleared before that whatsoever being done within pakistani soil that is being done by the clandestine support of international enemies including america and its allies.These local afghans are being allured by the dollars,being brainwashed in the name of jihad and being provoked by their pluck and exploiting their innerself against pakistani government,which is taking counter balance initiatives against such forces with blood and iron.These so called pakistani taliban probably have a chunk of mis-oriented and inane fighters who have no idea about what are they doing or going to do?

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="3"] 5- Were there any obligations on us being Muslims to help our neighbours when they most needed it?[/SIZE][/COLOR]

could not get the gist of this.

[COLOR="DarkRed"][SIZE="3"]6-I want you guys to be very clear at the outset about my own standing. I consider Pakistan's involvment in US war on terror as nothing but hypocricy. We, as Muslims, should had a firm stance against a non-Muslim invasion.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

i think pakistani government including other Muslim countries should develop an interminable,monolithic and unanimous stance on war on terror.Pakistani government should realize the originality of the game plotted against its very existence in the name of war on terror.It must give in its blind faith in american and coalition forces and must develop its implicit faith in islamic rules which are universal and according to the nature of the humanity in general.It should desegregate itself from this war by getting itself stronger.

[QUOTE=Riaz Ahmed Alizai;188360]

i think pakistani government including other Muslim countries should develop an interminable,monolithic and unanimous stance on war on terror.Pakistani government should realize the originality of the game plotted against its very existence in the name of war on terror.It must give in its blind faith in american and coalition forces and must develop its implicit faith in islamic rules which are universal and according to the nature of the humanity in general.It should desegregate itself from this war by getting itself stronger.[/QUOTE]


over all, u hv been brilliant.
now wud u like to plz explain this quoted sentences?do u think that pakistan is in a state or position to do it? if yes, on what grounds? how wud it hv to carry on the this diplomatic juggernaut??

Salamona
 

Let me put in a word my view point for coping with these hanging fires.I imply pakistai government,that it sould revisit its foreign policy,make efforts to crystallize democratic system by having sincere and devoted ultra patriotic members of the society in the government.It should concenterate on internal stability,economic growth,peace and stability,justice,provincial harmony and other socio-political matters which need urgent hearing.The government shold take steps to obviate corruption by adopting an effectual mechanism which must have the ability to seek out the evil among good souls.Troica must realize its onus by inhibiting its intervention in matters as regards the very exixtence of the motherland.
Sincere dialogue should be initiated without having any dely with the real representatives of insurgents both in pukhtunkhua and balochistan.They should be given a chance to prove their credibility,rather than getting them buldozed under the duress of American impetus.
it should settle its hanging conflicts with india with an equal hand.Pkistani government should get its borders hermetically sealed,specially alongside afghanistan,in order to prevent enemies from gaining a foothold on its soil.
once these matters are resultantly resolved,the government will probably be in a position to stand on its feets without having any international padestal.Subsequently,logistic support which is being provided to coalition forces be restrained,including closing their political shops in different areas.
On the other hand,recognizing its position among muslim community,pakistani government should rise to the occassion from OIC froum,having other muslim countries fully engrossed in devising a defending strategy against the block, which tends to stagmatize muslims for getting them targeted,ferociously.
Contrary to these efforts,muslim countries specialy the affluent ones,should play their devoted role so as to lend their countenance to the suffering muslim countries.Muslim countries should squeeze their oil exports to those countries who are guilty of bloodshed.Muslim countries should realize their strength and must utillize the same in order to making anti islamic forces realized their potential.
What happened with iran,which rejected the international pressure and flying in the face of big powers?Muslims must have the courage of their convictions and should puff their real strength out.They should stand uninamously against any such actions that are aimed to get muslims knocked on their heads.They must reallize international conspiracies against muslim ummah urgently which is the echoing demand of masses across the muslim circle.
Muslims countires should organize a ''Muslim Union'',having their own singular vision,mission and objectives.A joint foce similiar to NATO should be organized with utmost urgency,so that the enemies could realize their exixtence.These countries had better relax their borders for other brother countries to encourage business and other financial activities.More honoured islamic states such as Saudi Arabia should play its key role in getting muslim ummah more integrated by generalizing the prophecy of islam without having any cast and creed discripancies.Such steps shall bring a radical overhaul in near future,which ultimately will result in an influencial,strong,educated,concentrated and better organized muslim Ummah.

By the way Pakistan was not the only muslim country supporting american invasion. All neighbouring islamic countries of afghanistan like Iran, Tajikstan, turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, kergyzstan and Turkey all supported the invasion.
Ahmed Rasheed has written in his book 'Descent into Chaos' that at the time of 9/11, Pakistan had no choice but to vow US. What compelled Pakistan to side with US was kashmir issue. Had Pakistan not dissociated itself from Talibans, Kashmir would have gone. Moreover, future role in the regional politics would have ended also. As india would have emerged as a regional power and pakistan bracketed as terrorist state like north korea.

[QUOTE=waseem gurmani;188868]By the way Pakistan was not the only muslim country supporting american invasion. All neighbouring islamic countries of afghanistan like Iran, Tajikstan, turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, kergyzstan and Turkey all supported the invasion.
Ahmed Rasheed has written in his book 'Descent into Chaos' that at the time of 9/11, Pakistan had no choice but to vow US. What compelled Pakistan to side with US was kashmir issue. Had Pakistan not dissociated itself from Talibans, Kashmir would have gone. Moreover, future role in the regional politics would have ended also. As india would have emerged as a regional power and pakistan bracketed as terrorist state like north korea.[/QUOTE]





excellent analysis sir;
the whole world sloganed at the time of 9/11 that "WE ARE ALL AMERICANS".the countries always formulate such policies that best serve their national interest.security, survival, sovereignty and national and territorial integrity are some of the fundamental national interests.and of course, the then foeign policy makers of general musharaf paved us a right direction.but i dun think that they had calculated the pros and cons of this new tack.this all the massacre and butchery attached with terror infrastructure has come like a bolt from blue. none had expected that we are going to entangle ourselves in a carnage that wl take decades to obviate and deal a clout to the very existence of Pakistan .at this critical juncture, things seem to be going haywire and into a tailspin.

[QUOTE=mirzahadi;188099]
1- Can Islamic values be sacrificed for national interest?
2- Pakistan's support of US against a Muslim country following sharia is considered what?
3- If tomorrow coalition forces withdraw and Afghans war on Pakistan, will they be justified?
4- Killing people in Waziristan and NWFP for their 'extremism' or 'fundamentalism' on cue from Washington portrays our independent political setup?
5- Were there any obligations on us being Muslims to help our neighbours when they most needed it?
[/QUOTE]


1) Islam exudes a message of establishing nations and saving their interests....as described so many times...in the book of balance (unfortunately, some so called islamists are not ready to understand...it essence).

2) Countries like...KSA, Egypt,syria,Turkey,Bangladesh,Malaysia,& significant part of Middle East are in favour of it...no matter overtly or covertly.


3) If, coalition forces decide to with draw...it will have grave consequences not only for Pakistan but whole world order.

4) No any country has right to interfere in the internal or external dynamics of a nation-state....as some insurgents from central Asia have been trying to destablise our country...but by the bless of Al-mighty...our elite forces have crushed them with royal style.....moreover...the government of Pakistan with immense help of our royal troops have been succeeded to win the hearts and minds of charming people of FATA.

5) Yes, it is .... but we should not forget to retrospect the designs of others...as our holy Qur'an espouses the bid of retrospection.

Wt i expressed....everyone has got a right to agree or disagree....in both conditions u r welcom friends.

[QUOTE=fromQAU;189080]excellent analysis sir;
the whole world sloganed at the time of 9/11 that "WE ARE ALL AMERICANS".the countries always formulate such policies that best serve their national interest.security, survival, sovereignty and national and territorial integrity are some of the fundamental national interests.and of course, the then foeign policy makers of general musharaf paved us a right direction.but i dun think that they had calculated the pros and cons of this new tack.this all the massacre and butchery attached with terror infrastructure has come like a bolt from blue. none had expected that we are going to entangle ourselves in a carnage that wl take decades to obviate and deal a clout to the very existence of Pakistan .at this critical juncture, things seem to be going haywire and into a tailspin.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=fromQAU;189080]excellent analysis sir;
the whole world sloganed at the time of 9/11 that "WE ARE ALL AMERICANS".the countries always formulate such policies that best serve their national interest.security, survival, sovereignty and national and territorial integrity are some of the fundamental national interests.and of course, the then foeign policy makers of general musharaf paved us a right direction.but i dun think that they had calculated the pros and cons of this new tack.this all the massacre and butchery attached with terror infrastructure has come like a bolt from blue. none had expected that we are going to entangle ourselves in a carnage that wl take decades to obviate and deal a clout to the very existence of Pakistan .at this critical juncture, things seem to be going haywire and into a tailspin.[/QUOTE]

Thanx.
You know where the policies went wrong. Initially Americans didnt secure the border areas of pakistan and afghanistan. They should have done that.
Secondly the troop commitment was minimal. Americans won the war with just 2200 special operation forces (SOPs), suffering one casualty only. They flushed the talibans out of strategic locations at the cost of just 3bn dollars. This was the cheapest war in recent history. This added to the confidence of neocons particularly richard armitage and donald ramsfeld(who was single handedly dealing with pakistan at that time).
They had expected a big resistence but they found nothing. Soon they started devising plans to attack iraq, completely forgetting afghanistan.
Increased dependence on war lords,turning blind eye to poppy crop, less troop commitment, reluctance on the part of europeans allies to send the troops on forefront, Slower afghan force training, civilain casualties by nato jets, and no commitment for nation building added to failure.
Though Musharaf's decision to align with America was correct but his subsequent policies to protect some afghan taliban leaders was a complete disaster. Musharaf palyed game with americans as he was in search of american approval(for financial aid). Musharaf knew if the war is ended soon, america might leave him,So he intentionaly tried to prolong the war.