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  #21  
Old Monday, June 07, 2010
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Originally Posted by sana_krn View Post
well well here topic is islam spreas by sword or not???? not that islamic territory spread by sword or not...its proven truth territories always expand by power n weapons.
but b4 saying that islam was spread by sword lets c other asspectc wen holy prophet(P.B.U.H) migrated to madina almost all ppl of madina (AUS, KHiZRAJ) accepted islam territory was conquers 1st muslims state was evolved but without sword.....yea macca was conquerd but again muslims were not one who did agression or invasion it was ppl of macca who did that n in responce muslims reacted n victory ws granted by Allah.
all the khulfa-e-rashdeen were not violent even all muslims ruler,khulfa just responded to aggression n becoz they were in,usd good strategey they conquer and snatched most of the land of enemy.
n bcoz of islam this s caled modren civilised world came to know abt humantarian laws. we should all be proud that Islam has laid down a set of humanitarian laws, Along with principles now incorporated in the Geneva Conventions; Islamic law contains provisions not yet incorporated in modern international instruments. For instance, the protections provided by the Conventions are in the nature of multilateral treaties. Islam provides all these protections unilaterally. Similarly, the Conventions allow the detaining state to exact labour from those prisoners of war that are below officer rank. According to Islamic law, no labour can be exacted from the captives.
n let me say that world was never a peacful place to live wars are always in existance in any part of world...so one cant belame islam for that bazintini romen,greek all anciant ppl were not muslim bt they spread teritory through sword. y nobody says thn that chrischnity is spread through sword? y for islam only??? romans were not muslim but bfor evedant of islam they were rulling the world through cruelity n sword.
muslims wre blammed bcoz they prowed them self to b rulers n super powers. n its law of nature that one super power always exist in world as now USA...y dunt u blame USA for its agression now???? tell me is christinity spreading through american invasions????as bush himself declare these invassions cruesads????
dear lady u r confusing the issue through over simplification and application of modern day morality on the past.
yes the topic is if islam was spread through sword or peaceful preaching. my answer is through BOTH...
u cannot deny territory as a vital need for a population. for the propagation of a philosophy, it must ve a strong base of territory and following in a population, religion not being an exception.
u gave the example of the establishment of first muslim state in madina but ur knowledge of the history seems flawed to em. dear soon after muslims' coming into madina, they came in direct conflict with the jews. it was "sword" that helped muslims in maintaining their ground, defeating the machinations of both jews and munafiqeen, and finally expelling the miscreant jews from the holy land. go get ur facts right first. and muslim defended this city through "sword" from the makkan infidels (whole history of ghazwahs is a fact to prove this contention, by the way read the translation of the prayer of the Holy Prophet on the day of badar for clarification). and tell me if the Holy Prophet wasn't commanding the army of 10,000 armed followers, were it possible for muslims to take back makkah without spilling blood???
the ongoing bedate makes me question that y is it that europe remained essentially non-muslim????
answer: bcoz muslims could not achieve a "military" victory. they were defeated on the plains of france in louvre in the early centuries of islam and therefore islam could not penetrate into mainland europe. trust me the muslim victory would ve ensured teh europe as a muslim land. if muslims maintained their hold on spain, it was bcoz of sword...
don't enforce modern principles of humanitarian morality on the past. yes muslims were never aggressors but yes they were strong militarily: this ensured propagation of isalm.
yes modern era is different. religion is at backseat. but the basic fact is the same, the powerful enforces his philosophy on the weak, through force of arms or force of argument. look at the usa. isn't it enforcing its version of the liberal democracy on the rest of the world????
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oh am sorry i really need to clarify...so respected Mr. muqeet will u clear me on point that wen migration wz made towars madina muslims were equiped with swords right?? n ppl of madina didnt accept n embarce islam before migration???? muslim start their battl to jews n munafiqeen soon after thier arrival??? n jews n munafeeqeen were very honest to islam n muslims unnesscarily used sword???i really need to right my face sir n i willl b obliged if u do so


islamic teritmething diffrent frm islam in islamic territory state religon was islam becz muslims belives that code of law is quran n they adopted it as constitution n they follow they same patren of govt as laid down by holy prophet.(P.B.U.H) n his khulfa e rashdeen xcept they change way ofelecting khalifa frm election to monarchy...
yea muslims was unable to enter europe because after conquring so many area thier downfall started...n no muslim preacher sufi sain ever been allowed to enter europe the era wen european were burining their praists anybody who tlk against thier desires is not acceptable to thm some how europe waz reluctant towards new ideas n thoughts thats is reason islam was not acepted in europe will u find any tomb of muslim saint in europe? as u find in all asia n2ndly downfall of muslims wz started... in spain how many christines were forcfully converted to islam? n tell y muslims invaded spain?????n
my point is clear muslims never did aggression against any state but wen agression is made against them they were not stoped.
n one more thing if u think islam is spreaded through both tell me y islam is spreading now???? wat will u say abt role of sufia ???
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Old Monday, June 07, 2010
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Originally Posted by sana_krn View Post
oh am sorry i really need to clarify...so respected Mr. muqeet will u clear me on point that wen migration wz made towars madina muslims were equiped with swords right?? n ppl of madina didnt accept n embarce islam before migration???? muslim start their battl to jews n munafiqeen soon after thier arrival??? n jews n munafeeqeen were very honest to islam n muslims unnesscarily used sword???i really need to right my face sir n i willl b obliged if u do so
well dear i m trying my best but still the problem is that u r not helping me at all, may b its because of ur signature or what
any how the focal point of my argument is the same... islam spread because of bot peaceful means and sword.
yes this exactly happened in madina. as soon as the jews realised that the Holy Prophet wasn't there to strengthen their religion and way of life, they turned against him. they had believed for centuries that the last prophet would uphold the jewish religion and hence they came to madina, the place where the last prophet of God was to emerge, an event they waited for so anxiously... i never said that jews and munafiqeen were honest and muslims unnecessarily put them to sword. plz don't twist my arguments. this is totally disgusting an allegation. all i m trying to say (plz try to understand) is that the sword occupies equal importance in muslim history as the teachings of quran and sunnah. if muslims wouldn't ve occupied the rest of the world, how came they would ve shown the world the practical application of the teachings of islam.


pehle thande dil se meri previous posts parhein, samajhne ki koshish karein, uske baad typing ki zehmet kijye ga...
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thank u so much for suggestion sir
i hv read not for one time for so many time....n u pointed that my knowldge of history is wrong so i just wanted that u may guid me
in my previos post on which u comented i belive i said the same thing that sword was there for territory not for spreading of islam....thn y u said to get my face right which i already think is right
yea my signature are about life not abt ppl i hv no desire to learn frm life but ppl like u made me learnt
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my main point is still there 1st source was not sword for spread of islam islamic teritory was expaned through sword but muslims were not who did agression 1st it was always responce to agression
i hope u will tell me am i right or not
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Old Monday, June 07, 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sana_krn View Post
yea muslims was unable to enter europe because after conquring so many area thier downfall started...n no muslim preacher sufi sain ever been allowed to enter europe the era wen european were burining their praists anybody who tlk against thier desires is not acceptable to thm some how europe waz reluctant towards new ideas n thoughts thats is reason islam was not acepted in europe will u find any tomb of muslim saint in europe? as u find in all asia n2ndly downfall of muslims wz started... in spain how many christines were forcfully converted to islam? n tell y muslims invaded spain?????n
my point is clear muslims never did aggression against any state but wen agression is made against them they were not stoped.
n one more thing if u think islam is spreaded through both tell me y islam is spreading now???? wat will u say abt role of sufia ???
u r wrong. muslims couldn't enter the europe bcoz they were defeated on battle ground. and since muslim armies couldn't infilterate into mainland europe, muslim saints and travelers didn't venture in far europe, and hence we c no spread of islam. GOT MY POINT??? its that simple. we should b honest enough to take the facts as they r. europe, during dark ages, was as much receptive of new ideas as any place on earth. the emergence of different sects in christianity and the travelling of westners to muslim world for knowledge of science and arts is a great fact to prove this contention. europe wasn't reluctant to new ideas. u r wrong here.
ur point isn't clear. yes muslims were never aggressors (i said it earlier) but still they were successful bcoz powerful muslim armies were at their back...
islam is spreading now bcoz of its teachings, it always did. but the modern world isn't the same as medieval times or dark ages. see this is the problem i pin pointed earlier(but u didn't bother to understand): IT IS WRONG TO IMPOSE THE IDEALS OF PRESENT AGE ON THE PPL OF PAST. every generation of past was a product of its own time. past was different. u couldn't survive if u were weak. this is y jihad with sword has been so emphasised in islam. the items that were available in home at the death of Holy Prophet weren't golds and silver coins but swords and spears. MIND IT.
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they were defeated on battel groung y bcz thier downfall started till that time their armies were not that much strong as they use t be in past thats the same thing i mentioned n u r saying wat is difrence in that????

again i already mentioned it is universal principle their is a super power always present in world.....obviosly pas principle are not applicable now...but we were talking abt past....fields of war has been changed now i agreee so wat was the diffrence?????

Holy prophet left swords not coins as u already mentioned ever genration is produnt of that time so by that time swords were dealt as asets not gold or silver coins n that time muslims need security not money most of the arab leaders hv embraced islam n they were wealthy so need of time was power to protect themselves
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@Sana
I am sure you have gone through my previous post, here am adding another argument...... think over it.


why you are separating politics from religion Islam. if you do so you wont be able to justify the Ghuzwaat fought by Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) himself. why he fought that much of Ghuzwaat. had he some political intentions? if yes then you are considering him as a politician.
without political power you can't have any say.


Be reflective on your own arguments.
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well no argue on that coz i agree....but question here was not abt politics it was abt spread of islam... i agree with u n already mentiond that by that time muslims need security n protect thmselves...when holy prophet thought muslims can not fight heprefen not to fight infact he goes for agreements but wen muslims etablished a state it is thier responbility to protect thier land
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Islam means peace.
Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’, which means peace. It also means submitting one’s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one’s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (swt).

2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace.
Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.

3. Opinion of historian De Lacy O’Leary.
The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book "Islam at the cross road" (Page 8):
"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."

4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.
Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.

5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.
Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.

6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.
The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.

7. Indonesia and Malaysia.
Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, "Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?"

8. East Coast of Africa.
Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, "Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?"

9. Thomas Carlyle.
The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book "Heroes and Hero worship", refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: "The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can."

10. No compulsion in religion.
With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur’an says in the following verse:
"Let there be no compulsion in religion:
Truth stands out clear from error"
[Al-Qur’an 2:256]

11. Sword of the Intellect.
It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur’an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125:
"Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord
with wisdom and beautiful preaching;
and argue with them in ways that are
best and most gracious."
[Al-Qur’an 16:125]

12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.
An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in ‘The Plain Truth’ magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?

13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.
Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?

14. Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson.
Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson rightly says, "People who worry that nuclear weaponry will one day fall in the hands of the Arabs, fail to realize that the Islamic bomb has been dropped already, it fell the day MUHAMMED (pbuh) was born".
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