this bigger picture should be the focus of discussion

this is the bottom line.

what i am disapointed with is the role of russia and china in all this great game.although the strategy of china of being a silent spectatotor(at least this is what the perception is,reality is otherwise) is understandable and prudent but still they being big stakeholders in all this they should be more active than they are.energy may not be the prime objective of NATO but still it is not that petty to be ignored.

the only positive in all this can be that with every successive invasion the problems faced by U.S will also multiply and there will be a stage when it will burst out(it happened in the past with the super powers of their times,but they dont seem to take a lesson from it.(by the way this is what that is going to happen with universe according to theory i read somewhere)).this is my personal umeed or may be wish and it can be under a bias

coming back to libya.to hell with the "slogans" of "human rights" under the banner of which west is attacking libya.qaddafi should be removed but there are a lot of other ways of doing that.i wonder why these slogans of human rights are not raised for palestine,kashmir and why the resolutions of UNO are not adopted and adhered to where they go against the interests of west.for example in case of iraq.by the way it has been said by the media that america believes that libya have some chemical weapons hidden in some desrt and they fear that those will be used against libyan people and their satellites are monitoring those weapons.buhaha.what we fail to analyse is the hidden game behind all that is going on(although it is not that i know about that but what i know is that there exists one for sure)

an intersting thing that i noted today on T.V is that shia counsel of PAK is supporting the resistance against qaddafi.for sure these shite organisations are dictated from iran.why iran is supporting NATO interference in libya especially when the reason of all this happening is somewhere connected(to me at least) to israel?it may be that iranians have some sort of their own game plan in all this.i mean russia(an ally of iran) was in favour of haulting air strikes but iran opted the opposite stance.this is confusing

dont forget the iranian presidentz statement in which he warned U.S that they have many options to hurt americans in case of war and those will not be initiated or exercised only from iran.again i got distracted from the title of the thread

OIC stands for????..ya right i get it OBSCENER,INSECURE conference..they failed yet again .they never stood for the islamic world./they opposed the No-fly zone but forgot to mention how to handle this situation..one thing is confirmed that the scenario in libya dosen't seem anywhere near to the JASMINE REVOLUTION.

I cannot but laugh my guts out at the long list of such comments that has preceded. Take for instance, ulterior motives and game plan and all this kind of stuff. If you know so much, why not then just tell us what after all is the purpose of the west, instead of making us speculate about your so called ulterior stuff etc.

For those who say why not kashmir or palestine, well at least the west is acting somewhere (Libya). Instead of celebrating the fact that muslims somewhere would finally be free from a mindless dictator, you have a problem that says, ''If i'm not free, nobody should be''. A very good way to think, i must say.

Saad, there is a reason why you've cleared the CSS exams and they haven't.

In any case, if the Muslim bloc had any dignity left, they would have removed Qaddafi themselves when he began murdering his own people, whose only crime was to ask for the rights given to them by God and his Prophets. However, most Muslim countries are run by dictators and they fear that they might meet the same fate as Muamar. I hope they do. Down to the last kingpin - KSA.

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He conquers who endures.

the allied forces have ventured into libya.apparently to stop human rights voilation.... all the voilations in palestine and also in yemen are tolerable,no fingers are raised at them.but libya is a different story.its resource rich.the enrgy thirsty west needs it.
if it is a humanitarian mission or not will b clear in some time.the west has to prove its bona fide by helping the libyans in freeing themselves from the tyrany of gaddafi. otherwise this legally justified but morally reprehensible move will continue to be seen with suspicion,

The West’s current talk of military action against Libya is given legal basis from only one explanation – that Government forces (western media prefer ‘Gaddafi forces’) are killing civilians in their attacks – by using planes tanks etc.

They cite the genocides in Rwanda and Bosnia when the world – the western responsible world that is – remained silent as thousands were slaughtered

Everyone can see that the difference between what happened in the two countries and Libya is a world apart. There is no systematic genocide going on in Libya, only perhaps the West now wants that to happen.

Last week EU leaders said Gaddafi “must relinquish power immediately” and left the door open to military action to what they said ‘to protect Libyan civilians.’





The West’s policy is such that governments that use their armies against civilians killing them should be removed from power even by military force.

This is double standard of the highest order. Take the example of France that has already recognized the Libyan rebel leadership in Benghazi. The sudden recognition is presumably intended to give the impression that President Nicolas Sarkozy has a grip on events. But the truth is it is evidence he does not know what to do any more than other European leaders.

After all the recognition of unelected and self-appointed leaders in countries in which civil war is raging has not been France’s policy towards African countries – specifically its former colonies.

If it were, then in Chad France would have been backing Mahamat Nour forces against troops loyal to President Idris Debby. Instead, France is solidly behind Debby and three years ago French troops in Chad assisted Government forces in battling rebels who nearly took over Ndjamena, the Chadian capital.

So according to France it is legal for the Chadian Government to fight rebels, even killing them in the process, but it’s illegal for the Libyan Government to do so.
It’s the same thing in regard to Ethiopia. The West is very quiet when Ethiopian Government troops fight the Oromo Liberation Army (OLA) and the Ogaden National Liberation Army (ONLA) 0—rebel group that fight for autonomy of the Ogaden region of eastern Ethiopia. In one military operation in 2008 left hundreds dead from both sides.
But it’s so different in Sdudan. Kartoum Government troops, according to Western countries led by the US, are not supposed to fight rebels in its Darfur region, as when they do and kill them, then the Government is accused of ‘masacring its civilians’ and President Al Bashir is to be arrested for that crime against humanity.
It’s again different in regard to the DRC – rebels in that mineral rich country are not supposed to exist as the Kinshasa Government has a free hand in fighiting – and killing them. And they do so occasionally in the eastern part of the country.
All in all, the West would support any rebels fighting governments in Iran, Syria, Zimbabwe, and others.
Observers also say that if there emerge rebels to fight the military government in Myanmar (Burma), the Us will support them, though not so enthusiastically as they will do for Syria and Iran.
Many say that France’s recognition of Libyan rebels headquartered in Benghazi is aimed at providing political cover for later military intervention.

But such kind of strategy is hazardous — because US intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq showed the devastating consequences of not having a credible local ally. The only thing known about the rebel leadership in Libya is that it is divided and ineffective.



you are expecting actions form west and U.S.kashmir is an issue for what 5 decades?or 6?or more?
palestine is an isuue for for how many decades?
libya is an issue for how many decades?human rights......


abu gharaib jail and human rights.....

drone attacks and human rights....

how many were killed in iraq war.what was the justification?weapons of mass destruction....human rights



come on now say anything but not that that the actions of the west are driven by human rights.
this is not just it there a lot of other things too which points out their human rights activities.

i think u havent read my previous post carefully.here is what i said.

greater israel may be the motive.(i dont know what is the great game but there exists one for sure)what confirmed to me is that this is not for "human rights"

like how the people are now free in egypt na?

brother you have overlooked a portion of my post.here it is

not only in egypt but in all arab world mindless dicatatorship should be put to end.so west should attack all those areas too?

i differ with the approach with which they are trying to remove qaddafi.not with the idea.

this is always expected.

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Puppet,Slave,Lover

Inshah Allah

Ashaab-e-Kahaf( People of cave)

[18:18] "And you might think them awake while they were asleep and We turned them about to the right and to the left, while their dog (lay) outstretching its paws at the entrance; if you looked at them you would certainly turn back from them in flight, and you would certainly be filled with awe because of them."


Economist can amuse you with their jugglery of statistics
Be pragmatic!
GDP & GNP are not the realistic estimates of per capita income.In 1978 King of Iran & his family were having more than 70% of the country GNP through their business & Per capita income of Iranian was very high as it was based on GNP .But in reality whole Iranian nation has share in only 30% of GNP.
Ironically ,King of Iran's dollar were lying in western Banks & latter freezed by US after Iranian revolution.
Bahrainis are only demanding their economic,political & democratic rights.More than 80% of bahrains are even not given share in security forces.
They are economically exploited by the bahraini Royal Family.

There is a difference between Life of Lion & Life of jackal.I think you have never experienced the life of Lion.

My Brother please put your biased spectacles aside .
Shia Organisations are supporting the resistance against Bahraini Royal Family.They are just supporting non-violent resistance & right of Non-violent protest against hegemony of Arab Dictators.
They are against following kind of oppression,
YouTube - Face To Face Shooting in Bahrain- alwefaqtube
Do you support such oppression?

Please provide some valid proofs ( statement of Iranian officials in this regard)

Muslim Unity Zindabaad!
Pakistan Zindabaad!

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Unity + Faith + Discipline = True Pakistani

Bhai TV ghoor say dekha kerain Aur khabar ghoor say suna kerain.
Shukeria!


Pakistanis show support of Bahrain uprising,
PressTV - Pakistanis show support of Bahrain uprising

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Unity + Faith + Discipline = True Pakistani

@ mjkhan

China isnt exactly a bully seen in contrast to US or Russia. However they are very clear about their objectives and regional interests. China's goal has been to improve upon its economic strength first and foremost, and it is wise enough not to unnecessarily pounce upon its neighbors or other rivals, militarily. Their motto is, that if their interests can be secured by peaceful, easygoing means, then they need not wring up other states. So they dont want undue chaos on their behalf in world relations and for the moment would like to quietly observe from a distance. Smart. However I also know that it is being given a chance to grow as well, something Pakistan is being hindered from.

Russia, on the other hand doesnt follow a similar policy. It is imperialistic in approach and as in the past, will follow the same route as soon as it can. Russia had motives in Pakistan in 1979 and it still does, and it primarily wanted a warm water port and access to the Indian ocean. The reason why it chose to use aggression for the purpose has its origins in the myopia of Pakistani establishment to pick USA over Russia in its heydays despite the latter's initial overtures. This is why, Pakistan needs to work hard to create renewed relations with Russia and get off the American bandwagon gradually. That will also be a bulwark against India that is now slowly inclining itself to the US bloc. We need to realize this ASAP or it will get too late to mend.

Iran is actually alot more detrimental for Pakistani interests than Afghanistan's unstable situation. Very few people know that Iran-India have signed a military alliance called Delhi Declaration (2003?) that agrees to come to aid to each other's side if a war begins with a 3rd state. India has also firmly established economic, trade, and military presence in Iran as much as in Afghanistan, spending billions of dollars on infrastructure development. Iran, is an ideologically motivated state and also wants to gain hegemony of as much of Islamic territory that it can. It is the only official Shia state (I am saying this with total indifference to the belief system, focusing only on the impact) and it is in their interest to reach over to other states and so support all Shiite origin organizations and outfits like Hezbollah. It however, DOES NOT support military strikes against libya or western involvement there in any way.It has made it very clear, although it supports and views the public uprising there as a road to Islamism. For its part, it is ready to play a very assertive role in the middle east. Its warships have already entered the Suez, and it is sending in arms to the region- one consignment even being intercepted by Turkey. So it supports popular uprising all over the region due to ideological considerations, not just cornering around Shiaism. It would want any future confrontation with the West to preferably occur in the middle east- faraway from home ground and in a coalition.

@Saad Qaisrani

Why does it make you laugh Saad? Have I not given proper figures? Or based even my assumptions on logical pattern? Assumptions or theories, when based on thorough calculation of odds and evens support facts later. It is precisely the lack of brainstorming that Pakistanis are suffering from. So are you trying to prove that all the think tanks that are the backbone of western political systems are fallacious? They think up of possible alternatives to a situation and work up solutions. What do you have to say about the Game theory, that focuses specifically on that criteria? Can you point out to any part of my post that refers to some whacko conspiracy theory?

There is nothing wrong in challenging some idea or person, but please bear in mind that you must have an alternate idea to support yours in its place, instead of harboring an apologist's stance. A lot better than mere criticism for someone's concerns is the provision of answers, i.e, if one is apt enough to do so. If you are challenging the concept of ulterior motives then I guess youre oblivious to the "oil game' too!
Btw, I am perplexed on your take on Western agenda. Is it your lack of sense of justice or a state of melancholy youre in because you happen to be a Pakistani and not a Westerner?


@Ahmed_2007_Cool

Well ,well the world will never be truly free of flatterers, will it?

If intelligence, knowledge or critical thinking is the sole property of CSP's then its only God's guess why our bureaucracy is infested with generally, low IQ thugs who barely manage to hold the fork and the knife in correct hands. Thats how most of them begin their careers and they learn how to conduct themselves in public only later. However, most of them are exceptionally proficient in rot-learning facts and coupled with a lil bit of luck and that lovely quota of that remote part of the country, they manage to make it there. Real men of understanding and calibre, opt out of the services within the first 5 years, my dear! They can handle the low remuneration, but they just cant handle the mediocre atmosphere. You need some more research on this issue.

However, this does not mean I doubt Qaisrani's capability, for I cant be too judgmental about the 4 lines he has written. Secondly, I have just given my papers this year, so- "It aint over till the fat lady sings".

We cant justify western forces act by saying that they are doing this all to prevent human rights violation.

Where was human rights when raymond davis killed two pakistanis and then flee without bearing consequences, where was french and british and even UN when all this happened.

Point is that it was our personal matter. Similarly no one has the right to intervene in other country's business.

Do we have the right to intervene in India by helping Naxalites and saying we are here to help prevent human rights violation?

If you can justify western presence in Libya then you can justify Indian presence in bangaldesh when bangladesh liberation war was going on.

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Time only knows