meray bhai spectacles to ma utar don ga.but who knows if i am a shia too.u never know.so dont be judgemental at least about faiths.while discussing i never take into account these things.

aur bhai ap meri posts bhi ghoor sa parha karain.ma na kub kaha k PAKISTANIS show or dont show support for bahrain.my post was for libya aur ma na yehee to kaha k shia counsil(jisey ap na shayad tanzan ya shayad wesay hee PAKISTANIS kaha hai but ma ney ye shia counsil wali term sirf is liye use ki kiu k ma khas iranian context ma baat karna chahta tha warna ap sahee keh rahey hain pyarey bhai) was in favour of uprising knowing the fact that NATO has attacked libya(but in the video they are also against american attacks so thats good).yes iranian stance is correct w.r.t the uprising but they should also consider the NATO intervention in the area. i am of the view that west should not intervene in these matters(or even if they do the method should be not like what we have at present) and we(muslims) should solve these matters on our own(a dream).

and yes iran would like to have the confrontation in middle east before on on its own borders.already syrians jordanians palestinians etc are supported by iranians.and there are a lot of other things but i am afraid if i get into those things my post eill be deleted.

i think we should not get into this because that will astary us from the title of the thread and economics will become dominant in our discussion.

Hmm I don't wanna offend the goddess of love and beauty, she just might turn me into stone. I took the papers this year myself. I'll pay you a courtesy visit when you get your posting in Pakistan Post. (lol j/k!)

Wow, you belittle and discredit so many people/institutions/regions in just that one post. Okay, first things first. I asked them about the fork and knife thing. They said it's a tradition of the Prophet to eat with the right hand and hence their knives go in the left hand and the forks in the right.

Remote part = Punjab? Hmm, that's hardly remote. Unless you mean KP. And if you do, that means war.

Yes, the quality of the 'atmosphere' is understandable. I've seen some of my dad's junior colleagues. They're hardly the sort of people I'd like to hang out with, let alone work with. But who cares? It's just a nine-to-three job anyway. And from three onwards, just like any respectful bureaucrat, I'd be at the Golf Club, teeing it off with my military counterparts. I have it all planned out, you see.

Lastly, and I'm getting to the point now, what Saad said was that some people posting in this thread are fundamentalists and that they should see the world with reason and logic instead of religiously-motivated emotions. Pakistanis are becoming more extreme by the hour. Everything is a Western conspiracy to destroy Islam in one way or another. And the only way out is to stick to a literal and fundamentalist interpretation of Islam (according to them). It's pretty worrisome.

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He conquers who endures.

Im not saying that the Bahrainis have no right to stand up for their rights. You missed my main point. That someone is orchestrating the show is what needs to be focused on. Even if you brush aside raw figures, lets analyse their standard of living. Their utilities are subsidized and are cheaper than world average. Basic food, clothing, is plentiful and cheap. They have uniform and free public education system with a 77% literacy rate. Bahrain's human rights issues mainly corners around its Shia minority, something that it has worked on throughout the 2000's and have been deemed to have improved by UN and its various agencies. It practices democracy and universal suffrage through one of its legislative chambers- it is a constitutional monarchy just like UAE. All this hardly looks like suppression to the extent of rebellion. They may have issues, but they arent cumbersome enough to warrant massive unrest, logically speaking. Machiavelli had once said that the average man will tolerate quite a lot before he becomes aggressive and stands against the regime.
So while we are at it, why not force a revolution in UAE? Its royal families literally OWN the space too. But that wont happen, because the West has such delicate concerns in UAE they wont touch that Or why dont the ISraelis burn down Israel..they have massive corruption issues and a 20% below poverty line population. The whole region is carefully tapered according to their interests.

Lastly, anyone who simply learns to roar loud enough isnt necessarily a lion. It is the silent terror of a lion more than his leap that frightens the jungle. A lion never hunts down his prey himself- his lioness does it for him and that alone is a testament to the power he wields. Discretion of a lion should never be misunderstood to be a shortcoming. Neither can a lion be hand-held and lead- he marks his own path and destination. And these, my friend, are the traits that distinguish a lion from a jackal. Have you lead such a fearless life yourself? If Pakistan were to have a revolution IA, can you claim to fight till your last breath, till all your loved ones perish one by one perhaps? Are you willing to fight even if history does not mark you down in its pages and you only become part of heavy statistics? Tough ryte!

Sure do pay a visit at the post office, cuz I may be able to help you with your 2nd attempt in 2020

Lol, come- on, temmee who did you ask concerning the fork and the knife? Were they even serious when they cited Prophet (saw) tradition for it? How about " The Prophet (peace be upon him) cursed the one who bribes and the one who takes bribe"? What a fine example of that have the bureaucrats set! The God that I believe in, doesnt really care about table manners, as much as he does about injustice. By remote part of Pak, i meant areas like FATA, AJK, Sindh rural, Balochistan etc etc however not imposing that people from these areas dont deserve it-just that some really downtrodden ones can manage too. By virtue of a decent domicile, less able candidates can also make it big. I once met a snob from FATA, a Joint-secretary in ministry of works for heavens sakes, and in 30 years time the fella hadnt managed to drop that heavy accent, still wore a loathsome safari suit to work and had gross trouble comprehending some official written material. Didnt expect that one.
And yeah, the extremism bit too is worrisome. Although I do subscribe to the theory about West vs Islam. Actually the West doesnt hate Islam in particular. It hates and is wary of the people that now constitute Islamic states, their history and heritage, thinking pattern, behaviour and attitude- all that have been shaped by Islam in one way or another. For a born muslim may not be a practicing one, but may flare up if he hears a westerner condemn his people. A westerner isnt sentimental about his religion or 'community' in the same way. However, the way to look at it shouldnt simply focus on lamenting and pitying ourselves. Yeah, it needs a logical treatment with alot of energy channelized to education and better standard of living, and creation of justice in our society. We need to learn and exploit Western knowledge to our advantage (only so that we can ditch em later) just like our muslim ancestors did. Know your enemy from within to attack him, and that cant be done through a solitary confinement of minds. I still will be suspicious of western agenda because thats what history teaches me post-Crusades down to present day. Lines, unfortunately, have been drawn and I didnt choose that

@ aphrodite

correct your statistics & consult demographics of Bahrain. Shiites are in majority more than 80%,in Bahrain.


Who is orchestrating the show & Why & How?

My Dear Bahrain is a very Important base of US 5th Fleet.That's why west is silent over the uprising in Bahrain.The Saudi intervention In Bahrain comes two days after US Defense Secretary Robert Gates visited Manama and held talks with King Hamada bin Isa Al Khalifa.
As far as UAE is concerned there is no discrimination on sectarian or ethic grounds.In Bahrain 80% of majority Shiites are not given jobs in security forces & key government posts.



Have participated many times in the processions which were targeted by suicide bombers.Suicide bombers failed to stop me from participation RYTE

"Hum dars Zindagi ka letay hain Kerbala say!"

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Unity + Faith + Discipline = True Pakistani

@aphrodite

Thanks God! only very few people & you know that Iran-India have strategic military alliance And Iranian don't know that India has strategic alliance with US.
Iran openly supports Pakistan over Kashmir Issue
Do you know why Pakistan suspended IPI( Iran-Pakistan-India) peace pipeline Project?
ANS: IN LOVE OF USA

Have you read their constitution?

Remember Hezbollah is a Islamist political party in Lebanon like Hamas.
Iran supports Hamas too . Hamas has good realtions with Iran.Hamas leader has many times met with Iran's supreme Leader.

Same Turkey, The NATO ally!

Watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0_Fy...layer_embedded

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Unity + Faith + Discipline = True Pakistani

First of all thanks for the appreciation brother. On a side note, why is it that we are always on the same side?

It really makes me sad to see the kind of apathy our society has become apt at showing. Where has the humanity of 180 million gone after all?

The Shia minority thing was a blooper, accidentally typed down. The ruling family of Bahrain is Sunni however, which in the past had a track record of their suppression. That has been recorded as having been improved over time according to watchdogs.
Secondly, if you still have to ASK who might be orchestrating the show, then I'd rather not have this debate which drags us to the basics. Not that I havent made that one clear in earlier posts, had you READ and UNDERSTOOD- Israeli agenda is the prime culprit in the string of pseudo-revolutions. US foreign policy itself primarily caters to Israeli interests, and thats how it has been geared to, ever since Kennedy's assassination- conspiracy theories apart. Your mention of Bahrains strategic importance for US only cements my point further. Its not like world powers shouldnt try and solve Bahrain's shia problem, but A. Bahrain is not the only country to have been struck B. there are grave religious/ethnic issues elsewhere around the world, that the SC never even takes time out for ample discussion. That logically points out to other reasons for this intervention. You are quick to complain about Shias not landing govt jobs- but why do those nations have the right to play policeman who themselves practice the same bias- after 9/11, the number of jobs actually handed out to muslims, particularly Pakistanis and Arabs in the West has been subject to prejudice. It is common knowledge that they tend to prefer their own locals first, followed by Indians and at last Pakistanis. You cant have double standards and expect to be conferred with a leadership role.

Please come out of that cuckoo-land of yours and try, just try envisioning the reality of Iran-India relations. I am not sure what your religious beliefs are, nor is it my concern, but it shouldnt come in between political debate cuz u and me are both on the same spectrum by the end of the day (Pakistanis). It is definitely of a major concern for Pakistan if Iran tries to build an alternative port facility like Chahbahar with Indian assistance and links it all the way up to Afghanistan. IPI has now been signed, with or without India- so that no longer is an issue. Iran has only recently become wary of India owing to their vote of sanctions on Iran in the UN. But their partnership still remains in place. So intelligent states dont look on when their rivals conclude heavy commitment with a state just next to them making a sandwich outta them. Delhi Declaration doesnt have any direct pressure from a US-INdia alliance, bcuz that means USA will come to aid India in case of war. Who is India likely to go to war with? Iran? It has already secured an alliance there. Itll be Pakistan right? If you're saying Iran wont like USA's entry here, that is true. But so is the fact that it wont have much choice if India-Pakistan do go to war. So it has selected the best possible option it thought was right. Side up with a mightier state bcuz Pakistan doesnt carry much weight- according to its perspective. So now, why do I not see your point?
And yes, I have read the constitution of Iran thoroughly. It does not specifically refer to the Shiite sect but it makes the following points that are dominantly referred to by Shias:
A. The infallible Imams (Sunnis respect and love each of them tremendously, however the focus on them as part of religion centerfold is usually used by Shias)

B. In Article 5 of the constitution, it clearly refers to Imam Mahdi's (ra) REAPPEARANCE. The reappearance concept exclusively belongs to Shiite sect while sunnis maintain that he has yet to be born. This is how it mentions it:


"During the Occultation of the Wali al-Asr (may God hasten his reappearance), the wilayah and leadership of the Ummah devolve upon the just ('adil] and pious [muttaqi] faqih, who is fully aware of the circumstances of his age; courageous, resourceful, and possessed of administrative ability, will assume the responsibilities of this office in accordance with Article 107."

Shias are also obviously in majority there, and ever since the 15th century, the same has been officially proclaimed in Iran. If this isnt official, then I dont know what is. They perhaps abstained from a clear-cut statement calling for the Shia faith to be official due to minority considerations.

Nor does Iran support Hamas with the same intensity it does for Hezbollah although it ships arms to both. It openly supports Hezbollah while its links to Hamas are still covert in nature. Hezbollah is the brainchild of Iranian Revolutionary Guard and its militants receive extensive training within Iran. Khomeini is the main role model of its top leaders and today they derive most of their 'official' blessings from Iranian Supreme leader. It supports Hamas simply because of its animosity towards Israel. Their relations cannot be compared on the same scale. It is the interest in the region more than ideological congruence that fuels such cooperation. All this, is mere presentation of facts. Personally, I respect Hezbollah's efforts as much as a Shia would and Im sure many like me do too. My dislike for Iran, arises only out of their policy that supports India more than a Muslim state, however the blame isnt on Iran totally. Pakistan of course has been a poor manager of IR.

I didnt get the part where u mention Turkey as a NATO ally. Iran would obviously want confrontation with USA and Israel right. which is why its sending in arms and warships. So whats there to differ about?

@ aphrodite
Indian administered Kashmir is more economically prosperous than Pakistanis administered Kashmir.Cost of living & electricity is very cheap there.But it does not mean that more than 80% of Muslims of Kashmir should not demand their political & democratic rights.

Iran openly denounces oppression of Kashmiris by Indian forces & has supported Pakistan on difficult occasions please consult the Pakistan history.

He has yet to be born,so i should not hope his arrival in near future, meaning 5-10 years? But at least both Muslim sects believe in his arrival , thats good thing.This depicts consensus & unity of Muslims over his arrival. I appreciate it.
Thats another good thing at least minority considerations exist.Every Nation should respect its minority. Those who deny rights to others deserve it not for themselves.

I appreciate !

Saudi Arabia & Other Gulf states have also cordial relations with India, more Indians are working there than Pakistanis, but it does not make them our enemy.Afghan Transit Trade is signed by Pakistan, but it ensures Indian economic interests in Afghanistan.So, economic coordination does not means military assistance.We have not given Iran its role in Gawadar Port because of USA & still criticize its Chahbahar Port Project!


Let me conclude the discussion on your above quote, Paksitani never die ,but multiply
Thanks a lot for your constructive dialogue

Pakistan Zindabaad!
Muslim Unity Zindabaad!

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Unity + Faith + Discipline = True Pakistani