@aphordite nice

how can i find/contact u other than css forum????

I must say Aphrodite argues with great skill. The points you have presented are worth thinking about. You should be a lawyer

so now you've turned on name calling and blaming because you have nothing what we call "facts" to talk about, lol nice

And Stop advertising for other forums btw, it's against the rules I guess Nice attempt though.


So you mean it is justify to earn/make money using any way legal or illegal if one have no other choice? That helped in explaining your brain even more, Interesting thought.




You fail to understand simple english but I will try again. Each Single Link you copy/paste trying to prove any point "x" always remember there will be a hundred links on the same Internet against the point "x" HENCE copy/pasting links is not a wise Idea.

You know about TTP yet you have no clue who were the members of TTP and who appointed their most famous leader of all times i.e Bait ullah mehsud. and Lol don't talk about proving things, do you even know what a "proof" is? I don't blame you actually because I don't think ASPIRING POLITICAL JOURNALISTs are taught math and even If you were taught math you were sleeping in your math classes. To help you, Try figuring the difference between EVIDENCE and PROOF. You have Not Proved anything yet, only that you are a wannabe journalist with no proper knowledge and loves copy/pasting stuff




You yourself quoted wikipedia and I used your own source and pointed out a contradiction which you failed to explain and went like "AN UN PROVED MEETING" lol .. It's better If you stick to your opinion and logic behind your opinion in a discussion forum rather than copy/pasting links because even a 5 year old knowing how to use google can do it.






I am yet to see some original or unique analysis from you, what you have done is pick up things from here and there and join them. You have not said anything yet that is original which shows your knowledge on the subject, you have posted links and when contradictions were found you immediately posted more links.


Once again you ignored my question and tried to go off the track, but let me bring you on the track once again, What have you personally done as an effort to implement the shariah? You are writing stories here and copy/pasting for some time now to save a debate you already lost but how many posts and/or threads of stories have you fulfilled regarding the implementation of shariah? Please show me one, I'd really like to see.






It's not a question about giving a sacrifice or not, it's about if the sacrifice is worth it or not.


Again only words, no logic. What has earthquake got to do with this now? Your comparison skills are just fantastic I must say. If bad things happen all the time and we should live with it and not move a finger, then why do you blame the politicians? since bad things happen all the time and army can enjoy after doing wrong things every now and then why shouldn't the politicians enjoy as well? Lets give them a free hand as well and let them do whatever they want as well .. It's good that you are only an aspiring political journalist and not a journalist yet .. because using the same philosophy I won't be surprised if you accept bribe and go like "Ah its ok, bad things happen all the time, let it be" and write wrong reports lol



No wonder why you are supporting the army. You are one of those cowards who fear the consequences .. Tomorrow If someone kills your child (God Forbids) and you have the power to take revenge or held the person responsible accountable and if the person who killed your child threatens you with consequences, will you let him go and go like "Its ok, my child is gone now, Even If the killer is punished, what will be the result? More trouble for me" .. Really sad :/

And you expelled no one lol .. again you are quoting/saying whatever the gov or media tells you, damn you'll be a really superb Journalist .. I can see that lol a journalist who fears consequences will obviously turn out to be a very good one Good luck heh


All personal attacks and nothing worth commenting, I'll let it be.


Oho ..... so the neighbors were better than pakistani army realizing the hell raised around them? They are lying when they say they heard gunshots and bombs were dropped? I think Pak army needs stealth hearing capabilities now, should they visit some ENT's or what do you recommend?

Gov Is not responsible as much as the army is. Suppose "X" is an individual, and "x" is son of "y". Someone attacks "x" mother, will "X" take permission and wait for permission from "y" i.e his father to take action against the person who is insulting and/or attacking his mother?





Either you are sleeping all the time or you are for no reason trying to develop your writing skills by writing long stories which could be written in a few sentences. Seriously, do you think USA will blame pakistan only after they kill their agents? They are not blaming us right now? You still fear being blamed by the USA? lol Really amazing



Again, sheer stupidity (no offense) but lol .. No nuclear power will attack another nuclear power. Even If they do, it'll be not a real attack but just pressure tactics. When the war gets serious and nuclear weapons are about to be used, both the countries will cool down. So be logical, don't live in dreamland and come to the real world



You are not even the last person on earth whom I would like to impress, However If thinking so makes you happy than so be it .. Day dreaming is not a sin and cannot be banned

hahahahah so now you know why I advised to say something original and do not copy/paste links because for each link you paste there will be hundred against it .... now what happened to your over confident attitude that ISI is the best .. I once again busted your this myth .. and why don't you do the search? since you love copy/pasting links, you do it .. or did you already did it but failed to get the desired results? LOL

Copy/Paste blah. Copy/paste boo. Copy/paste oh-oh. Copy/paste Woops. "Mom, she copy/pasted everything"! And when thats too repetitive u keep ranting abt the 'Aspiring Journalist' issue and it really looks like uve taken it to heart. Anything else to point out or shud i call it a day? Alhamdulillah, I dont need to prove any skill of mine to the world. I practice everything way up in my mind.
Look theres no point dragging a lost debate, is there? Dont push it. In fact I take the blame for even discussing an issue ur severely unaware of. They say it right. The ignorant one will always drag you down to their level, so yeah, its silly of me.
This is over.

@ Sadia Shafiq

You can contact me via my email given on my profile.

Assuming you are deeply offended with something which at some time you used to be proud of/about i.e COPY/PASTING and Calling yourself an ASPIRING POLITICAL JOURNALIST, I hereby surrender calling you and/or referring to any of those names.

Now, Coming back to the debate, From what I can see you Have been trying to debate to prove some points which are but not limited to

1 - ISI Is the best spy agency on earth
2 - ISI is better than CIA & MOSSAD
3 - Pakistan Army, Air Force & ISI are very capable of defending our Interest in the region and have done so in the past as well and that they are very competent
4 - There are no links whatsoever between Afghan Taliban and TTP, both are different, TTP is anti-pakistanis and Afghan taliban are pro-pakistanis

Now, If you have read something about theorems you should know proving them is difficult but proving them WRONG is very easy. All you need to do is produce and/or show a single evidence going against a theorem and the theorem stands NULL AND VOID. Let's mathematically analyze your statements now and see How true they are and If there are any arguments against it.

4 - There are no links whatsoever between Afghan Taliban and TTP, both are different, TTP is anti-pakistanis and Afghan taliban are pro-pakistanis

"There is clearly a symbiotic relationship between all of these different organizations; al-Qaeda, the Pakistani Taliban, the Afghan Taliban, TNSM [Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi],"says Petraeus."

SOURCE : Shared Goals for Pakistan's Militants - Council on Foreign Relations

do I need to explain what the word "symbiotic" means?

Secondly, think for a second, Pakistan provided bases, supply routes and all possible help to the United States Of America and NATO to launch attacks on Afghanistan. There is a famous and logical saying which I assume you have never heard, it goes like "the friend of my enemy is my enemy" .. Are Afghan taliban Insane that they will spare pakistan after what Pakistan has done to them? Nay Sometimes it's good to think rationally rather than accepting whatever people say (Just like you accept claims of afghan taliban when they release soft statements for pakistan)

HENCE POINT 4, Stands Null and void unless and until you come up with an understandable reply based on logic.

3 - Pakistan Army, Air Force & ISI are very capable of defending our Interest in the region and have done so in the past as well and that they are very competent

If so, Why they failed securing what we now know as bangladesh? Why were They merely Interested In power and its use against its own people and imposing martial laws? Why have they not yet won a single war worth discussing. Why have they proven every now and then to be incompetent? I, for a second might Agree with you that PAF is relatively better and has shown some performance in the past, but the army and ISI? 1971 Is a perfect example that explains their incompetence and all the wars they lost and the recent issue as well. Not once, not twice but every now and then our army has been the cause of our shame either by losing wars, showing incompetence or by imposing martial laws .. All the time ..

Hence point 3 STANDS NULL AND VOID unless you come up with a logical and understandable explanation.

2 - ISI is better than CIA & MOSSAD
1 - ISI Is the best spy agency on earth

Top 10 Intelligence Agencies of World | TopYaps

Top 10: intelligence Agencies : News & World Events (PLACES CIA ON TOP, ISI as 5th, MOSSAD AS 7th) Point for quoting this was that you said most sites won't even list the CIA in top 10 and it's no where a match, see some sites are naming it as the top agency (not that it's true, but just see what people think)

My point? Different sites will have different opinion(s), however, the truth is that there is no question or race for the agency leading all other spy agencies and that's MOSSAD. MOSSAD is probably the best on earth (even though I hate saying this, but this is a fact) as for comparison b/w CIA and ISI, some sites will list ISI above CIA while some will list it below, but who cares, everyone knows the truth.

So Even If for the sake of argument, I agree with you that CIA is not better than ISI (even though, facts and figures say otherwise) that still does not prove and/or hints that MOSSAD is also any lesser, because MOSSAD is even better than the CIA itself.

By being emotional and going against facts and figures and calling your army and ISI better in comparison to those who are the best is simply ignorance and nothing else. You can make comparison of ISI with other intelligence agencies, like RAW or Afghan Intelligence agency (duno what's its name) but stop comparing it with CIA or MOSSAD .. it's like comparing an elephant and an ant .. CIA has been around much longer than the ISI and has more operational experience and has more budget and everything so don't feel ashamed If they completely put you/me/us to shame .. Instead, strive and struggle for a better ISI and army and this will NEVER happen If you keep on supporting the army and isi in all the wrongs they do, they must be criticized when required.

Hence point 1 & 2 STANDS NULL and VOID



see? such statements make me laugh and pity you. Don't you know that those who participate in the debate cannot be the judges at the same time? Tomorrow when you become a journalist, you will write whatever you feel like and then argue or mention at the end that "No feedback and/or suggestions and/or criticism is required because If you so it will be a lost debate and there is no need to push it" ? lol .. Please, be logical

Members can read all the posts and they can read both point of views, neither I nor you can force them to believe in "xyz" .. They have brains to think, APJ :P

See? Yet another Illogical statement. If the Ignorant can push you down to his level and you fall for it, doesn't this make you even worse than the Ignorant himself? It surely does, logically So by saying the above you called yourself an Ignorant but you used a softer word for yourself i.e "silly" but I know what exactly were you calling yourself

I thought you are not one of those debates who have the brains of a bird but ALAS! You often go off the track and mention useless details for the sake of prolonging a post. An analogy can be used here, it's like you are given to write "an essay on a picnic" and you start by "I and sadia are best friends, we went to school together, we have been friends for so long ............." then you start talking about your friendship "We have been close to each other for so long, we love eating xyz and our hobbies are blah blah blah .................." and then after writing pages of useless details you write in the ending sentence "And Then I and my friend went together for a PICNIC" lol .. My Point? Come to the point and talk about it instead of going into details that are least concerned

Anyway, Now that your points stands null and void I might call it a "GAME OVER".

Request : In Future, please when you have to talk about something, make your points clear and save me the trouble of extracting the exact points you want to make from your long stories, This is a discussion forum and not a story book.

I can already assume the reply of the request i.e "Request Regretted" right? But I hope you surprise me, lol.

Don’t you assume too much? And then pose as if uve just proven a brilliant point. I still stick to copying references when there arises a need. I ALSO POSTED NAMES OF SOME NOTABLE BOOKS, WHICH YOU JUST DIDN’T ACKNOWLEDGE IN UR LAST POST. YOU DON’T ACCEPT SITE REFERENCES. AND YOU CHOOSE TO REMAIN SUSH ABOUT BOOKS REFERENCES TOO. And let me inform you that I , and neither any person of average intellect is about to accept a 3rd option your mind may show the brilliance of. If ur striving to prove something wrong, u sure will search for something contrary to it. That’s what uve been doing all along. Instead of picking facts as I present them and isolating its parts to analyse them- ur mostly re-pasting some generic stuff I wrote like “This is over” or the part where I happen to actually have ridiculed YOU. This is the first sign of incompetence.

I am no math junkie, but when I searched the definition of theorem, it was something like this.

THEOREM
“A theorem is a statement that can be demonstrated to be true by accepted mathematical operations and arguments. In general, a theorem is an embodiment of some general principle that makes it part of a larger theory. The process of showing a theorem to be correct is called a proof.Although the proof is necessary to produce a theorem, it is not usually considered part of the theorem. And even though more than one proof may be known for a single theorem, only one proof is required to establish the theorem's validity."


Nowhere does it mention that its difficult to prove it. Instead, it says you CAN prove it through logic and arguments. However, when I try to prove it through arguments, your Highness deems it too long! How convenient. Now, how do u prove something? By known history of trends. By common sense. By isolating different parts of the puzzle and bringing it together. Uhh, no u haven’t been successful in doing any of that. You’re just harping on and on about our agency’s failures. Yeah, youre just a cynic. You should read some famous quotes on that one btw. I am counting their numerous successes- with due references. Although logic dictates that quoting heavy site AND book references carries more weight than words in the air, here for a minute I am setting that aside. That still doesn’t PROVE YOUR point. The most it does is make it NULL and VOID. In that case, as I said earlier, this is a useless debate.




Now for the Gen. Petraeus link. Perhaps you haven’t studied the guy’s history. He is a hardcore neo-con who believes all cooperation with Pakistan should halt, and that surgical strikes be conducted THROUGHOUT the country to hunt out terrorists. That’s just Phase 1 by the way. Phase 2, if required (prolly will be) would call for a systematic incursion of the Pakistani territory to achieve objectives. He and the ‘conservatives’ in US administration claim that all talibans are the same, and this is why they urge Pakistan to hunt em all down within its own territory. All this, while US is aiding Pak Taliban from the backdoor, while that’s the opposite with A-taliban. That was in fact the original dilemma. His predecessor in A-tan, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, was fired because of his views on A-tan being distinct from his govt back home, i.e, he was a proponent of COIN strategy-a much softer, negotiative strategy. That, and the fact that he told his govt to leave the Pakistani govt alone to deal with Taliban in its territory (because US resources are stretched too thin) and the US should deal with A-taliban separately. If we claim that US is aiding Pakistani Taliban against Pakistan- why would they or their closely affiliated think tanks admit that the 2 taliban on each side are the same? Silly right! You were warning someone else here about quoting out of context. You’ve just made the same boo-boo here.

Afghan Taliban do not harm Pakistan themselves because Pakistan is also aiding them in fighting US in A-tan (funds in Pak banks, training, weapons, and often, manpower). Simple as that. I hope you still remember the meaning of the term “symbiotic”, Dexter. In the absence of a large scale opium trade, Taliban also had to find benefactors. Think logically. What theyre doing in A-tan requires immense funding and resources. Whose providing them with that? If they were really blowing Pakistani cities up, does it make sense if our army keeps channeling funds to them in return? Aakhir aur larai kyaa hai? US yehi to kehta hai, keh Pakistan aid kar raha hai Taliban ko.





You remember 1971 debacle. It was not just the army’s fault. It was a long standing deprivation of the Bengalis by the Western wing in all regards. Secondly, our army did commit atrocities there, and I wont defend any of it. But a major factor was indeed the geographical discontinuity. India did train the Mukti bahani in its vicious campaign against the state. Knowing many friends parents who ran away from there in ’71, they say that the average Bengalis never wanted the dismemberment. As a result of the activities of Mukti Bahani and Mujeeb ur rehman, Pak army did commit excesses.
About their achievements. Kargil War, highly frowned upon lately by many, was Pak army’s good attempt turned sour by the then leadership. I will quote 2 references here. You need to study Shireen Mazaris book on Kargil, Separating Facts from Fiction. And the latest report by the Indian administration on Kargil War. They have themselves admitted to several failures. India’s Outlook magazine had published the report findings ranging from a total intelligence failure to non-acclimatization of troops to late military response to inadequate troop maintenance for conventional warfare with Pak- and a lot more. Despite all this, they have the nerve to claim, they ‘won’ the war, when in fact they had lobbied in the US to inflict pressure on Pak to withdraw. The Daily Times replicated Outlooks report in an article, the link of which (if u aren’t too tetchy abt them) is Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
In 1948, despite very scarce resources, Pak army did push the Indians back to the extent that we see some part of Kashmir intact with us today. The fact remains that India was the first one to go to UN crying ‘ceasefire’.
Similarly, you give the US credit for pushing away the Soviets and yet none to Pakistans ISI. Come on, lets not sound absurd. This is a fact that even Americans acknowledge. Americans were there in proxy only. It was merely channeling funds and weapons to Pakistan, as contributed by several countries. Training, logistics, and strategy was done entirely by Pakistan. If CIA was so good, they didn’t need to lick Pakistans feet (demonstrated by Zia’s “this is peanuts” remark) to fight the war in Afghanistan. War journals are full of this information.



I did not claim previously that ISI is better than Mossad. I was myself surprised at the possibility. However, I do claim that ISI is better than CIA, due to its success rate. I have already pointed several of their failures. FBI, was created only after the CIA was deemed too incompetent to handle national and international issues in one go. Read why it was created and youll know. The Pentagon doesn’t reserve a separate budget for monitoring the activities of any agency-except ISI. Think why. Don’t reply that its cuz they see us as a threat. They see Syrians, and the North Koreans and the Iranians as a threat too.
Set site references aside for a sec. Ponder over real world instances ive shown u, and ‘make sense’ as you love to.

Im not being emotional when I claim the above. Did I claim for instance, that our SSG is better than Navy Seals? Or that ISI is better than Mossad? That’s bcuz in both the cases, they are better hands down although not miles apart in the previous example. Im not day-dreaming but neither am I an apologist for my nation, like you. We need to however, monitor our agencies’ failures so that we don’t repeat mistakes, like we did recently. That has set a good example. But don’t go about hammering them down now. Emotional people dont give concrete examples or references. They basically, 'assume'.


I wont answer for the last 3 parts of ur post. Ill take them as ur emotional outbursts. There is nothing to be talked about in them because thats ur 'getting even' part of the post. And I thought women do that more? And to think, that we arent EVEN yet.

Haha...sucees rate of ISI..lollllzzzzzzzz!!success in losing half of Pakistan and suppressing the democratic process for around 40 years......Sorry I have been following these posts but I just couldn't contain myself more..I read about 'successes of the glorious ISI' in ur previous posts and mentioned this term in front of a few Professors and PhD scholars in International relations and Politics here in my University(Not a Pakistani university ranked 4000 something in the world.This is number 4th ranked University in UK.So u gotta respect what its' scholars say)..and they were like almost rolling on the floor laughing there lungs out..Before explaining the failures of our security and intelligence establishment..Such claims,and such agencies have made Pakistan a tremendous joke in the world..For God's sake..are a few journalists and self claimed scholars in Pakistan are the only people in the world well versed with the truth..Baki dunya bawakoof he yar??That is why our media,journalists and scholars have zero credibility on international forums coz they are plainly brainwashed..
Successes of ISI and Pakistani MilitarySeriously I gotta discuss this claim with Dr Mehmet tomorrow as well..give him a good opportunity to laugh fully again...Please Khuda k liye..leave this partisan approach..appni ghaltiyan seekhe,kaali bhairon ko pehchanain and dunya me maid mazak banwana chorain..

__________________
I shall either find a way,or make one
'Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa'

, dont downplay the succes of a premier agency like that, they have been very successful at making political parties and forming political alliances, name any other agency who has been even close to ISI at that

__________________
The precondition for existence of a higher humanity is not the state, but the nation possessing the necessary ability.

blinksorry kashif bhai I am at a loss of words here..wakai esi agency kahin or nahy mil sakti..ISI Zindabad,Fauji Jamhooriya e Pakistan Painda bad

__________________
I shall either find a way,or make one
'Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa'

Lolz,The two iconoclastic figures of 20th century,Messrs.Che Guevara and Hitler,Both suffered at the hands of CIA,an agency ranked 4th in the list given below.
10 Best Intelligence Agencies in the World