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  #21  
Old Tuesday, June 07, 2011
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The basic question arises here that why our feudal leaders and shakky govt as well as Agencies choose to play all stuff on pakistan soil.This is right that we may be gaining through it, in different forms like dollars,loyalty,character certificate from yes boss america etc,,,but is it not possible to replace pakistan's territory with india etc....surely NO NO...If india etc are not letting this chaos to happen on their soils,,why we are too much puzzle to forget all boundaries of humanity and leave the innocent trible ppl on the mercy of wicked americans,,,,
We as a nation and individuals one day will have to apper in front of ALLAH on the day of judgement.what will be our stance for letting wicked american to target our innocent ppl before allah..
aor kes mou se allah ko jawab denge,,,ke hmm es mulk ke rullers and citizens the, pher hmm ne es mulk ke ghareeb aor lachar logo ko kuffaar aor zalemeen ke raham wo karam pher choar deye the..... we should think of our own nation rather for yes boss interest, and speciall for our innocent ppl dying day by day in suicide blast,drone missiles etc..
We have alot of natural resources,but it to be explored and polish.we are doing nothing with our resources and that much idle that inviting other ppl for its utilization and explorations...Hmm kese nation hain keh etnee umer main aik DAM na bana sake,,,,,very shamfull
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  #22  
Old Tuesday, June 07, 2011
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Originally Posted by aphrodite View Post
Pakistani Taliban are just a creation of US/India Nexus.They arent the real threat and will wither away once we deal with the other 2 enemies- India and USA. India is a real threat in spite of the recent ranting that Pakistanis should ditch the stance. Mehran base attack was done by them, as the whole event benefits them the most. ALL their nuclear missiles are pointing towards Pakistani cities. We've already had 4 wars with them. Thats reason enough to consider them a BIG enemy.
USA is not our only other enemy. Behind its facade, its is Israel that is doing everything to destabilize Pak. To israel, after the Middle Eastern upheaval, Pakistan is the only country that stands in its way.
So deal with 1. India and then 2. USA (the second will come to you as soon as you hit India)
lol more India bashing?

Out of those four wars, we initiated three (1948, 1965, 1999) and technically, our bombing of camps within Indian territory started the 1971 war, too. Oh and we've also lost all those four wars incidentally.

And your paranoia doesn't end there. "Israel is doing everything to destabilize Pakistan". lol.. Why would Israel want to destabilize Pakistan? If the Zionist lobby really does want Pakistan to sink, it'll simply ask the US senate to stop filling our begging bowl - without US aid, Pakistan will sink on its own. What evidence do you have that Israel is trying to destabilize Pakistan?

Lastly, we're the ones who have a first-use nuclear policy. India's nuclear policy is based on the concept of massive punitive retaliation (retaliation being the key word here).
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Old Wednesday, June 08, 2011
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Originally Posted by Saleeqa Batool View Post
We have yet to decide as to who is our real enemy. The national is completely devided over it due to multiple factors such as lack of knowledge, emotionalism, propaganda, vested interests etc.There are different theories and beliefs prevailing in Pakistan.
keep your house safe by fencing it so that no beast can attack or if you have to spend life in a forest ,then you should have fire ..All this stands for self security.when Pakistaniz will learn fencing and have warmth in heart ,then no one can use it.so i totally disagree with point that taliban/india/america/or others are our enemy.jub hamary kashty me he sorakh he to usne dobana he ha na..still we have no consensus who will rule ;either army or politician and which political system should be adopted.one can compare it with a pendulum bob who moves about its extreme point .same is the case with Pakistan because pak political system is revolving around communist ideology vs democracy.this divide give rise to the demand for these theories.these have no grounds but only a lame excuse----we are unable to protect our land but funny thing is that we are fighting a war that is not ours.

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A vast majority consider USA as number one enemy and a root cause of all the woes and worries we are confronting today.Its USA who has pushed Pakistan into the war on terror. Even some quarters go to the extent that its USA who is waging suicide attacks and other terrorist activities in Pakistan.US want to destabilize Pakistan ( though apparently US will have no gain if , GOd Forbid, Pakistan disintegrates). US intends to occupy Pakistan and control our Nuclear Assets and bla bla bla.Conversely , the opponent who are few in number argue that there is no permanent friendship or feud amongst nations rather its mutual interests that dictates relations amongst nations.
you have heard on t.v Ahmadinejad statement ...he clearly disclosed the purpose of U.S.A and have you seen various research reports by Americans analyst who themselves have asserted the real motive of U.S is to capture A.Q khan and occupation over nuclear assets?..history had also witnessed this fact when kahota research laboratory had been attacked..U.S itself provide facilities for the nourishment of nuclear programmes but when situation goes against their own interests--phir khty hen hum ne jo toffees aap ko den he wo wapus se do and jub wapsi ke chances nazar nae aaty to phir analyst raised their concerns for the probability of war..now we should be ready and get prepared for the situation and if have no power then should sign CTBT and submit to their terms.

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USA is furthering its own interests and Pakistan its own. We are economically dependent upon USA since inception.If we couldnt bargain favorably it was not their fault. These were the vested interest and power hunger of the rulers that made them to succumb before unjust demands of US.If Pakistan would have been at US Place, we would have done the same.We are accused of destabilizing Afghanistan , spreading and nurturing militancy and these accusitions cant be dismissed outrightly.Moreover, disintegration are destabilization of Pakistan is never in the favour of USA for multiple reasons. The existential threats we are facing today , are created by our own ineptitude not by USA.
so what should U.S do if it be on pakistan place???that is the question.the big problem is colonial system.when you have`nt ability to think and create.then how a political system can be innovated.we have iqbal in which one can find these innovations.his poetry/dreams/ideas organized muslim league.the league which had been established in 1906 could not do well till 1935.but when Quaid employed the idea of allama iqbal and united its bifurcated parts.then with in few years it had shown tremendous victory.i will give you an example when a child goes to school in pakistan.what he learn first is dictation and cramming. so how the new political system can be developed by our youngsters ??they,now have become habitual of these dictations.we are not economically dependent on U.S but we have made ourselves.if IMF is a check for Pakistan sovereignty then whose responsibility is to remove these checks??if we will able to overcome these petty issues by ourselves then we are also in this position too,to give them checks.see congressional research reports in which it is clearly mentioned that U.S parliamentarians have passed the resolution to withdraw itself from IMF membership.that is due to the fact china has pegged its currency rates and hold large amounts of its securities..the challenge which now pakistan is facing is existentialism..why we are`nt able to bargain ourselves properly ?? the answer we have no uniform system and the big powers had and now being yielding their intersts by abrupt changes in pakistan (kane miltary are he and kabe politician and kabe constitution ka mazak uraya ja ra he etc).we are being accused because we really have done bad by spreading militancy.instead of diminishing social injustice we have launched many operations.we can make these people civilized at least their generations by providing education.ab bachey ko pyada hooty he kalanskof pakara de jae to wo usko khilona he samjy ga na

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Then their is believed that India is our real enemy and sponsoring terrorism in Pakistan. India has not accepted Pakistan and always dream to destabilize it to realise the dream of united india"Maha Bharat".Baluchistan separation movement is also fueled by India.However the other side asserts that the world has changed and india is eying top slots in the commit of world. an unstable Pakistan is not in its favour.The prolonged feud between both the countries is culmination of the myopic approach of both sides and Pakistan has suffered more due to this.Anti center forces have been fostered by the state's injustice not due to mediation of outsiders.
india ke first objective to china ce be agey jan he..so agar hamary apney he geiro ce kahen "a bail mujy mar"to kaun bawquf hoga jo moqey ce faida ne uthae ga.etna to baat yaqini he ke india responsible he.but how??? agar ye factor daikhen to pakistan khud he hey.baloch humey and hum balochz ko alien samjty he..me jub pishean /quetta/ziyrat gae mujy wa ke scenery ne bht impress kiya but wa ke log mujy kisi aur he dunya ke makhlloq lagey..so fault lies inside,.with in pakistan that is faulty policies toward provinces..


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Alqaida and Talban:Our religious parties claim that they are our own people and fighting for the rights of Muslim.If US abandons persecuting the muslims, they will stop killing innocent people.Their sympathizer also assert that these people dont have the resources to hit high profile targets.The terrorist activities are carried by US sponsored militants ans they blame Muslims so as to find justification for their stay in the region.The opponents claim that they are our real enemies who have deep penetration in the society.They are real threats.They have been nurtured by our security establishment. They are indoctrinating innocent minds .They are against modernity.They are against any one and dont hesitate to kill who dont profess their version of Islam .The threat is not only those individuals rather the philosophy and the beliefs, they
are propagating and their influence on society is visible. A multi-pronged startgy is needed to confront this monster ,mere weapons canot uproot it.
when a person have become victim of cancer then it affects all the organs of bodies.sometimes these nasty elements/organs have to remove for the functioning of rest pf body..so you are right in that case; we need uproot the branches first of this dangerous elements,should dismantle sanctuaries and hideouts.next step would be to remove this threat for ever..but what about drone attacks???if their speed of target will increase in this proportional value then keep it away from mind that we can uproot all the threats.
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Old Wednesday, June 08, 2011
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Originally Posted by Ahmed_2007_Cool View Post
lol more India bashing?

Out of those four wars, we initiated three (1948, 1965, 1999) and technically, our bombing of camps within Indian territory started the 1971 war, too. Oh and we've also lost all those four wars incidentally.

And your paranoia doesn't end there. "Israel is doing everything to destabilize Pakistan". lol.. Why would Israel want to destabilize Pakistan? If the Zionist lobby really does want Pakistan to sink, it'll simply ask the US senate to stop filling our begging bowl - without US aid, Pakistan will sink on its own. What evidence do you have that Israel is trying to destabilize Pakistan?

Lastly, we're the ones who have a first-use nuclear policy. India's nuclear policy is based on the concept of massive punitive retaliation (retaliation being the key word here).
Oh so you wanna do this thing again…lets see.
Indian threat is no paranoia. Ill show you why.
• They have a hand behind Balochistan insurgency.
• They are over-spread in Afghanistan( this is what happens when you ditch strategic depth)
• they refuse to talk over Kashmir
• they have atleast 17 nuclear missiles ready to be blown off towards Pakistani cities
• they have broken off your country once in 1971
• they are sponsoring and aiding TTP outfit inside Pakistan
• they were most probably behind the Mehran base attack (owing to pattern)
• they lobby vehemently against Pakistan at Washington (what do you think people like Deepak Chopra are doing there or the fact that Thomas Friedman, a bitter New York Times critic of Pakistan told the Pakistani-Americans to pay him high enough to write in favor of Pakistan. Having insufficient funds, the Pakistani lost to the Indians)
• they bad-mouth you in the UN trying to play against you through resolutions, attempts at us being termed a terrorist state.
• their media constantly engages in a hate propaganda against Pakistan
• and their common man spews venom for Pakistan too.
Does the above still look like ‘paranoia’ to you?

Before making sweeping judgments, you need to understand the cause behind all these wars. Its Kashmir. You know that basic thing.If we don’t have Kashmir, India will starve us down in near future. The main issue is not ‘faux honor’. It’s the rivers that flow down from Indian Kashmir. And all fears are turning true because now India is busy constructing the Kishanganga dam that seeks to divert our waters for their purpose. Experts say that our next war with India will most certainly be on water. This is why we are busy negotiating terms with India, that I at least don’t see materializing any way. If India succeeds in doing this, it means a level 5 disaster for a primarily agro-based economy.
And this is why, a stalwart like Jinnah, and another one like ZAB understood its importance and both yearned to fight for this territory. And you expect me to find some ‘Ahmed_cool’s’ advice more credible?
1948 started because India sent in its troops to Kashmir through deception and hence, illegally. What would you have Pakistan under Jinnah do? Sit back tight? Or fight back for a right that in principle belonged to Pakistan due to Kashmir’s majority muslim population. If you go with the accession principle of “ruler of princely state deciding whom to accede to” then why didn’t India follow this principle in Hyderabad and Junagarh? And if it didn’t, then Pakistan had the right to gain hold of Kashmir. This fact was acknowledged in the UN, after which a UN resolution to conduct a plebiscite there was passed. Conveniently, India never succumbed to it for obvious humiliating reasons.

1965 and Kargil war were again attempts to wrestle with a much bigger enemy that is a looming threat. Risks have to be undertaken when the consequences are dire.
Youre delusional about the 1971 war too. India had amassed its troops all along the E. Pakistan border, preparing to engage Pakistan army inside its territory on a minute excuse given the volatile situation of the region (only waiting for winters enough to block off any Chinese intervention from north). Pak army had to make a pre-emptive strike in order to gain an element of surprise that a defensive stance would not have yielded.

I don’t understand when our ignorant lot says, “We didn’t WIN any of those wars”. It’s a case of verbal vomit, I swear. In 3 out of these 4 wars, there stands no concept of victory on either side. Repeat. RESULT WAS INCONCLUSIVE ON EITHER SIDE. And in warfare, even if ONE side has a 5% upper edge, it decides the outcome in that country’s favor-India did not have that benefit, hence a CEASEFIRE requested by it ¾ of the time (1948, 1965 and 1999)! And in 3 out of these 4 wars, Pakistan gained an edge and defended its frontiers well. 1971 was our only real defeat. Mourn only that. And while you do that, do not forget the unequal treatment meted out to Pakistan in this conflict. India was being armed all along while Pakistan wasn’t. We could send in only 50 planes to India in 1971, because we didn’t have enough planes (more were promised but never arrived).

Then about Israel. You need some briefing dude. Israel is a country that since 1992 has aided, supported, trained, equipped our deadliest foe- India. Previously, they were literally ENEMIES. India and Israel. What normal relation do you see here? They are miles apart, and apart from Pakistan have no other common ground. If you say Israel is only getting on the Indian bandwagon for its massive trade benefits, then it would’ve simply stopped at that. But no. Their intelligence cooperation goes way back to 1968 (although India hadn’t recognized Israel), and Israel has feared that Pakistan is aiding the Libyans and Iranians, hence (the enemy of my enemy is a friend). They have had military trade worth $23 billion (mostly Israel supplying India with arms and equipment that has done huge harm to the balance of power in South-Asia). Further, Israeli leadership has gone on record to show its dislike for Pakistan. Its FM considered Pakistan a bigger threat than Afghanistan. Pakistan has a list of weapons systems that it wants to buy from US, France and Canada. Israeli lobby, alongwith Indians, continue to oppose this. And the icing is this- Israel had planned to attack Pakistani nuclear facilities in 1980, not unlike, its successful attack on Iraqi nuclear arsenal. However, the ISI got news of this and in turn alerted the PAF. IDF backed off for the time being. Later, when it began a healthy relationship with India, India was wary of such a plan as it could trigger a nuclear war in the region. And from here, you can get an answer to our anti- “no first use policy’. This policy is integral because India of course wont attack us first, but what would you do if Israel or US attacks us? We don’t have missiles that reach US and very few that can reach Israel. How will we create our bulwarks? India, then, will serve as our guinea pig. Despite all this, outwardly, Israel has always wanted to establish good relations with Pakistan. And perhaps I feel, we could have agreed to their offer early in our history- but with a double game policy- not unlike what US is doing to Pakistan today. Its too late now to recognize Israel- it wont pay us well. And yeah, about Israeli lobby shutting off aid to us- it already does so through IMF, World bank and through constricted deals like Kerry-Luger Bill. By the way, 80% of the aid that US merely promised to us-never reached us. During Afghan war they promised us $ 4 billion in 1987 that never made way to Pak because the war was over by 1988. Post 9/11, we never received some $10 billion out of $18 billion promised to us. Are you still in doubt that the Israeli lobby runs America? Then try venturing out of your dreamland.
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1 - Pakistani Army & ISI
2 - Current leaders
3 - Politicians (both in power and in opposition)
4 - The Awam/people (You and me)

The above 4 are the biggest enemies of pakistan, number 1 leads the list. If we go into reasons, it will take months to write



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Originally Posted by aphrodite View Post
Pakistani Taliban are just a creation of US/India Nexus.They arent the real threat and will wither away once we deal with the other 2 enemies- India and USA.
And Afghani Taliban aren't the creation of USA? LOL. How funnier can you get? You say "Pakistani taliban" aren't a real threat? The so called pakistani talibans have repeatedly accepted responsibility of recent attacks killing many.

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India is a real threat in spite of the recent ranting that Pakistanis should ditch the stance. Mehran base attack was done by them, as the whole event benefits them the most.
haha once again You have started talking like a "TYPICAL PAKISTANI Illiterate". Go on the road to a kabab wala or chai wala or go in a random taxi or go to a zamidar or any other illiterate person in pakistan and just ask "Heyyyyyy, who do youuu thnk is atacking pakistan????? who is doing these attacks????" and 99% of the people (illiterates) will respond "INDIANS ARE DOING THIS" or "AMERICANS R DOING THIS" and some will even say "PAKISTAN IS ITSELF DOING THIS" hahah so such a baseless accusation you have made .. and hey, where was our ISI when this happened? And where were our what you call "AL-ZARARS" or what when they were in the compound for whole night and half day .. really our agencies and commandos just proved once again how incompetent they are. First GHQ, then this and next dunno where and what .. do you still stand by your words and praises for pakistani army?

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ALL their nuclear missiles are pointing towards Pakistani cities. We've already had 4 wars with them. Thats reason enough to consider them a BIG enemy.
4 wars? And how many did we won? 4 ? 3 ? 2 ? 1 ? NAYYY .. The answer is 0 And nuclear missiles are pointing towards pakistani cities? ROFLMAOOOO HAHAHAHAH I SERIOUSLY RECOMMEND you learn more about this, you make it look like if they pull the trigger and the missiles will fly and as if they are ready and standby for attack anytime.

But for the sake of argument (practically impossible) but let's assume you are right, then If Indian NUCLEAR missiles are pointing towards pakistani cities, where are pakistani nuclear missiles pointing towards?

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USA is not our only other enemy. Behind its facade, its is Israel that is doing everything to destabilize Pak. To israel, after the Middle Eastern upheaval, Pakistan is the only country that stands in its way.
Finally something that makes sense. Israel indeed wants to destabilize pakistan and they are more keen to destroy pakistan than india or usa.

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So deal with 1. India and then 2. USA (the second will come to you as soon as you hit India)
HIT INDIA? Is this some kind of a joke? This is real life, not a story book or a movie or a computer game. Neither are we living in a dream here

And what do you mean by DEAL with them? Bother explaining?
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for the ones in doubt of israelz napak azaim about PAK.


retired leftinent general abdul qayum director military operations 1982 openly admits the fact that isreal after destroying iraqz french made nuclear facility was determined to go after PAKz nuclear facility.three factors prevented tat strike

1.india was reluctant to give israel its air bases for conducting this operation because of its interests and the idea that it will lead to an open war and may result in a counter strike on indian nuclear facility.so basically they were wise enough in not becoming a dummy

2.america at that time due to afghanistan war was not in support of this idea,

3.ISI anticipated this attack before its occurance

so much so that abdul qayum(who is now a days a defence analyst) also told that an attack on dummmy kahota plant was also carried out by israel.now thats not what i am syaing thats not what some conspiracy theorist is saying.this is what our leftinent general is saying


for the ones who believe that america is not our enemy

a leader of PPP/or a renowned journalist(actually i dont remember accurately) reveals his private converstaion with B.B.and according to him when asked from B.B about america our enemy or not?her reply was that if you want a frank answer then yes U.S has decided to do away with PAK and i am a hurdle in their way.

official studies of U.S naval war college(not some conspiracy theories center ) should be studied in which probable future outcomes with respect to asia were studied and according to those studies PAK will be no more in 2020 and america will sieze PAKZ nuclear weapons.this is how we are perceived by them.this study is conducted by U.S military strategists(not some conspiracy theorists) and is termed as probable outcomes.this study basically depicts their thinking.


the warning given by iran should be considered seriously.
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you r right brother........ but 4th point should be SO CALLED MOLVIES NOT AWAM.............
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It is a new strategy of america that make fight with each other and govern over enemy. America has a fear that muslims are thier enemies not only pakistan. The terrorism and other these kind of incidents are the reasons of that mystery
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We all are enemies of Pakistan. We all are responsible for present deteriorating condition of Pakistan. We select these politicians and we give them a chance to destroy our country. We are ready to stand on the call of these politicians and we never use to stand against corrupt leaders.they are busy in making money through corruption and we are unable to stop them. In next elections we will choose these persons again and then again start this drama that they are corrupt..etc...

Neopleon said "Bad crises in a country are not due to the violence of bad people ,but due to the silence of good people"

we are silent and we have no courage to demand our rights...
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None is our enemies but our own follies, mistakes and wrong policies and social evils which have almost eroded the social fabrics of our society and edifice of state is crumbling, shivering and likely to fall apart. Solution lies only in implementation of constitution and resolutions of parliament in its true letter and spirit.
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