Does Change of Central Govt will put the Country on right track?
 

There is no denying of the fact that the prevailing system has put the country in to morass we are confronting today and there seems no room for optimism ,if status quo persists.In this backdrop , there is, again, a call for change but not of system but of Govt.Those advocating this change include former Genral Hameed Gul, a section of media and some retired bureaucrats.Their call has attracted reasonable support from public. The modus operendi they have suggested calls Army to intervene to farm a National Govt and implement decisions of Supreme Court.

However things are not as simple as presented. Any intervention from the army on any of the pretext will eventually lead to absolute military rule so any call for military intervention will lead to Military Rule.

But whether the military again coming to take direct charge of governance will lead the situation towards betterment is something not corroborated by the past experience.I believe Military intervention will worsen the condition instead of turning it in to better for many a reasons.

So if not Military then who will bring change? This can be answered by first looking into the major problems the country is riddled with.Broadly they can be divided in to following categories.

1-Security(Terrorism, External Security, Baluchistan Insurgency)
2-Economic(Poverty, Inflation, Energy Crises, Unemployment)
3-Social(Extremism, Intolerance, Moral Deprivity )
4-Governance(Corruption, Inefficiency,Law and Order )
5-Political (Anti Federation Sentiments , Instability)
6-International (Pak-US Relations, Pakistan's Image in world comity)

These problems enumerated above are not mutually exclusive and exhaustive rather they are linked inter se.

Any proposed change must be effective enough to address these issues. Those who are inviting Army fail to view the situation in broad spectrum or they have their own agenda. First , the circumstances our military is going though prevent it from holding the charge and there seems no effort on the part of Military to make effort for coup.Secondly , the international community will vehemently oppose any unconstitutional change in Pakistan. Thirdly in common perception Military leadership can bring economic turnaround and deliver on governance front.Though both the points are open to debate , yet if the accepted , Army rulers have little capability to solve other problems especially political ones.So in given circumstances , any Military intervention will further exacerbate the morass.

Then what should be the way of change? In my opinion , we have a chance to change the entire system. If in upcoming elections , the entire nation set itself to instigate a change, no force can stop it.What we need to do is only vote not on the basis of personal interests, clans and bradrism , influence etc but on the call of one's conscious.Just vote to the right person.

Currently the ruling class perceive itself to be the unopposed and unchallenged owner of political system. This perception prevent them working in the interest of public and pay heed to public woes. What they are striving for , is protect their position under these myths through sale and purchase of loyalties. They play the political games in drawing rooms and by winning the heavy wieghts to their sides.If the nation prove that no one is heavy weight other than on the basis of ones will to serve , the scansion will change altogether.

If you Change Zardari , Gilani some one else will replace them but the forces holding clout at the helm of affairs will remain there. You can kick them out of Presidency , PM house but stop hundereds of people like them including Qureshis, Khars, Makhdooms, Cahudries, Jatois, Khosas, Sardars etc making place in the corridors of power.

What we need then is en mass rejection of existing lot. Chose new people and make them believe that no other consideration but their performance will entitle them for our vote again. This change of attitude is the only way to change the system.

A very good approach.
But keeping in view the present scenario I ll say that generally Pakistani awaam cant bring change according to your devise method. We are observing these dirty politics from the very beginning after the creation of Pakistan.
The only way out is a BLOODY REVOLUTION, in which we see kicking out these corrupt and selfish politicians from the country and punishing them public-ally, capturing their properties and distributing it in the poor people,
This can be done only through ARMY.

[SIZE=3]Yes,indeed we needed a call.but what type of call? it`s like judicail activism? we are`nt able to change the whole system since the inception of pakistani map on the world.well it is very difficult to pin point the problems[/SIZE] .[SIZE="3"]you have[/SIZE] [SIZE=3]delineated these problem very well.but to sort out these problem seems to be illusory .yes ,here no one wanted present govt. replacement with army .we have witnessed the germs of dictatorship in Aslam begg and hamid gul.we do nt need bloody revolution too and do not want to present govt replacement.because these politician have to face not only domestic pressure but foreign pressure as well that is in the form of IMF.we raised our voice agianst govt but forgot the aid seeking formula is modus operndi of army .WELL,in order to bulid our system we need to construct our policies i.e foreign and domestic .The successful governmnts first construct their domestic policy. but to construct this one should be freed from foreign intervention/pressure.i will not support Imran khan because of his ironical stance toward MQM. what is our prime responsibilty ? we should have direct interaction with media ,both electronic and printing media. if the new youth will have good control over media then no alliances will be break off.and the new leadership will emerged from gross root level . this is what we needed that will change the system.but the saddest thing is that telcom corporates have spoiled our youth .so let the musicain and sports men come who have lot of money to be spent on social welfare works. then their entry into politics. A new political class is emerging . [/SIZE]
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A Change will definitely come but a good one or a bad one is to be decided by time

[B][B][B]change will occur when the common person of PAKISTAN, a layman start thinking and will take care of Pakistan property and assets as his own property, then that pakistani will not allow any politician or any person of world to miss use its property it is like this that we dont allow any one to missuse our home and snubed them at the same time similarly pakistan if we considered our home then definitly change will come and a big change will be marked in history(with golden words)
no politican in the present list is so able that they deserve our presious votes.........my advice "fill all these politicans in a big ship and drown them in the sea or make a que of them and shoot them all" so an example will be set up for the next coming system........now my country need such a daring person who can say no to IMF and America set Pakistan and pakistan people and thier problems on priority, [/B][/B][/B]

we are all drenched into the quagmire of troubles .and the sitting coalation is not capable of an ice-breaking endeavour. that,s why getting rid of the cancer-spreading regime is essential,whether there is no fungible of it available.

the sitting government must be removed if ;

1]the supreme court burns 35 million fake votes+2.9 million duplicateI.D.crd

2]free and fair election commission is established both;federal and provincial levels.
3]the police and rangers are empowered to halt any chaos in any part of the country.because army can,t be stretched any further.

4]all measures are taken by establishment to incapacitate the SIND CARD.

[QUOTE=islah_G;334150]
This can be done only through ARMY.[/QUOTE]

:laughing rora, army has tried tooth and nail to bring country in better form four times, and result is in front of everybody, the country is stretched more towards destruction ...

bloody revolution is also not in offing. The country is in dire need of competent people to make the system right. No savior from outside will come to save us from any eventuality, rather we ourselves, have to bring it to straight line.

The current political lot, PPP, ANP, JUI, JI, PTI, PML N, MQM, PML Q etc everybody is dirty in this pond, they are not only playing dirty politics for their vested interests, but also seek help from foreign hand, either its USA or UK or Middle East to strengthen their seats/make way to power corridors.

In current circumstances, the most valid and short term solution is judiciary and civil servants (revenue, police, customs, district management, foreign services, provincial and pakistan secretariats etc), if these two pillars remain upright and apolitical, and try to do things in just manner for the sake of country without fearing any transfer/being OSD etc, thn the country can move on progress line. Alas, nepotism, corruption, lust of power, pleasure of protocal and privileges etc has made us rusty and out of order.... We must vow to take the country on right footing and am damn sure it will be on right footing....

[QUOTE=Muhammad T S Awan;334716]:laughing rora, army has tried tooth and nail to bring country in better form four times, and result is in front of everybody, the country is stretched more towards destruction ...

bloody revolution is also not in offing. The country is in dire need of competent people to make the system right. No savior from outside will come to save us from any eventuality, rather we ourselves, have to bring it to straight line.

The current political lot, PPP, ANP, JUI, JI, PTI, PML N, MQM, PML Q etc everybody is dirty in this pond, they are not only playing dirty politics for their vested interests, but also seek help from foreign hand, either its USA or UK or Middle East to strengthen their seats/make way to power corridors.

In current circumstances, the most valid and short term solution is judiciary and civil servants (revenue, police, customs, district management, foreign services, provincial and pakistan secretariats etc), if these two pillars remain upright and apolitical, and try to do things in just manner for the sake of country without fearing any transfer/being OSD etc, thn the country can move on progress line. Alas, nepotism, corruption, lust of power, pleasure of protocal and privileges etc has made us rusty and out of order.... We must vow to take the country on right footing and am damn sure it will be on right footing....[/QUOTE]

hello t s awan, what you have said is something true but it is not practical. we know that it is impossible at least in the time we live to have judiciary and civil servants as you described them and for long term they will remain like they are so in current situation what do you think will be a PRACTICAL solution which can be implemented and doesn't sounds TOO good to be true

thanks

[QUOTE=Muhammad T S Awan;334716]:laughing rora, army has tried tooth and nail to bring country in better form four times, and result is in front of everybody, the country is stretched more towards destruction ...

bloody revolution is also not in offing. The country is in dire need of competent people to make the system right. No savior from outside will come to save us from any eventuality, rather we ourselves, have to bring it to straight line.

The current political lot, PPP, ANP, JUI, JI, PTI, PML N, MQM, PML Q etc everybody is dirty in this pond, they are not only playing dirty politics for their vested interests, but also seek help from foreign hand, either its USA or UK or Middle East to strengthen their seats/make way to power corridors.

In current circumstances, the most valid and short term solution is judiciary and civil servants (revenue, police, customs, district management, foreign services, provincial and pakistan secretariats etc), if these two pillars remain upright and apolitical, and try to do things in just manner for the sake of country without fearing any transfer/being OSD etc, thn the country can move on progress line. Alas, nepotism, corruption, lust of power, pleasure of protocal and privileges etc has made us rusty and out of order.... We must vow to take the country on right footing and am damn sure it will be on right footing....[/QUOTE]
Yes Army got chance but unfortunately all the Generals tasted the sweetness of power and seat and eventually tried to bring those corrupt politicians to strengthen their position not caring for country's progress and prosperity of masses. All this made the position even more worse.
I want a Man from Army having support of other Army men and Public come out to kill or kick out these Lota's politicians from the country, put ban on democracy with no worry of foreign aid, I am sure my countrymen will eat grass but refuse foreign aid. All this need a sincere man for the country.
Bureaucrat e cant go a step forward without the will of politicians, most of us here know this.

[QUOTE=islah_G;334771]Yes Army got chance but unfortunately all the Generals tasted the sweetness of power and seat and eventually tried to bring those corrupt politicians to strengthen their position not caring for country's progress and prosperity of masses. All this made the position even more worse.
I want a Man from Army having support of other Army men and Public come out to kill or kick out these Lota's politicians from the country, put ban on democracy with no worry of foreign aid, I am sure my countrymen will eat grass but refuse foreign aid. All this need a sincere man for the country.
Bureaucrat e cant go a step forward without the will of politicians, most of us here know this.[/QUOTE]

but it is not possible for a man to become a dictator and then not be lost in the sweetness of power

[QUOTE=ThaHawk;334846]but it is not possible for a man to become a dictator and then not be lost in the sweetness of power[/QUOTE]
we dont need dictator like Musharraf zia and ayub, we need like Hitler Mussolini.
I am pointing a man from Army becoz he will have that much power to control the things.
There is no man in sight in the whole country who will do so in the present circumstances but a General. That General ll need a short group of policy makers/ministers who ll perform all the work of the country. Only in such a case Pakistan will emerge like One nation not a Nation of nationalities.

[QUOTE=islah_G;334859]we dont need dictator like Musharraf zia and ayub, we need like Hitler Mussolini.
I am pointing a man from Army becoz he will have that much power to control the things.
There is no man in sight in the whole country who will do so in the present circumstances but a General. That General ll need a short group of policy makers/ministers who ll perform all the work of the country. Only in such a case Pakistan will emerge like One nation not a Nation of nationalities.[/QUOTE]

but brother not all great generals receive formal army training, look at prophet Muhammad he received no training for army neither did Hazrat umar etc .. and the problem will never be solved as long as we have 1 human being having all the authority and no checks and balances :) in dictatorship its one man show brother, one man is all in all he can do anything and no one can stop him :)

[QUOTE=ThaHawk;334869]but brother not all great generals receive formal army training, look at prophet Muhammad he received no training for army neither did Hazrat umar etc .. and the problem will never be solved as long as we have 1 human being having all the authority and no checks and balances :) in dictatorship its one man show brother, one man is all in all he can do anything and no one can stop him :)[/QUOTE]
Do not compare the present time with the time of prophet and todays people with Prophets and Caliphs plz.
Well one man show is very much necessary for pakistan in the present time, we don't like hundreds of Ministers and thousands of MPs who are almost 100 percent corrupt , don't u observe the same old wine in new bottles for years in this country? do u think the way our politics our democracy is going will bring prosperity and development for this country, not at all my dear, we need a man like Hitler, like Mussolini like khumainee . who can perform One man show.

Brother Islaw, am totaly disagreed to your point of view, its non-practicable thing.. You are quoting examples of Hitler and Masoulini and Khamaeni, Hitler raised Germany from miserable condition, took it into peak and after Hitler, Germany again went to back burners and it was after many decades that its East and West Wings merged to form a single country again. Kahmaeni, he was brought into power after a bloody revolution, which is not in sight in our country..

We had seen Generals in our history, each of Ayub, Zia and Musharraf ruled for around one decade, thats a considerable time for anybody to learn from its follies to turn towards righteousness. But alas, none of them had any acumen to rule the country towards betterment. And there are more thn 100 Generals in uniform at this point of time and i bet, none of them, not a single from amongst them is having broader vision to take country to prosperity and harmony. Similar is the case with young officers, we cannot expect even from young politicians and army officers to have vision to think for wider interests of the nation.

[QUOTE=islah_G;334150]
The only way out is a BLOODY REVOLUTION, in which we see kicking out these corrupt and selfish politicians from the country and punishing them public-ally, capturing their properties and distributing it in the poor people,
This can be done only through ARMY.[/QUOTE]

[B][SIZE="2"]I second you Sir g ,but why Army has to bring this revolution ? we want a revolution by people of Pakistan , a revolution which would not winnow uniformed and non-uniformed men , a revolution that changes the whole system. new faces , new trends , new life and new system and a disciplined army with a motto to defend the country not to rule it.[/SIZE][/B]

[B][COLOR="DarkGreen"]We have experienced so-called Armed forces revolution four times in the Past
which had destroyed this country morally , economically.[/COLOR][/B]

[QUOTE=islah_G;334964]Do not compare the present time with the time of prophet and todays people with Prophets and Caliphs plz.
Well one man show is very much necessary for pakistan in the present time, we don't like hundreds of Ministers and thousands of MPs who are almost 100 percent corrupt , don't u observe the same old wine in new bottles for years in this country? do u think the way our politics our democracy is going will bring prosperity and development for this country, not at all my dear, we need a man like Hitler, like Mussolini like khumainee . who can perform One man show.[/QUOTE]

you are right brother that we should not compare current situation and people to the situation and people of the time of the prophet but then why don't you apply the same to your idea when u give examples of hitler and mussolini ? we should also not compare them with the current situation and our people

it is not practical to say that a man like hitler or mussolini will lead our country and it is also not practical to think that one fine day all or most of our politicians will start taking decisions for the better of our country against their own personal gains so this worries me because no one is currently talking of a practical solution and everyone is talking of ideas which are not practical at all

[QUOTE=Saleeqa Batool;334138]There is no denying of the fact that the prevailing system has put the country in to morass we are confronting today and there seems no room for optimism ,if status quo persists.In this backdrop , there is, again, a call for change but not of system but of Govt.Those advocating this change include former Genral Hameed Gul, a section of media and some retired bureaucrats.Their call has attracted reasonable support from public. The modus operendi they have suggested calls Army to intervene to farm a National Govt and implement decisions of Supreme Court.

However things are not as simple as presented. Any intervention from the army on any of the pretext will eventually lead to absolute military rule so any call for military intervention will lead to Military Rule.

But whether the military again coming to take direct charge of governance will lead the situation towards betterment is something not corroborated by the past experience.I believe Military intervention will worsen the condition instead of turning it in to better for many a reasons.

So if not Military then who will bring change? This can be answered by first looking into the major problems the country is riddled with.Broadly they can be divided in to following categories.

1-Security(Terrorism, External Security, Baluchistan Insurgency)
2-Economic(Poverty, Inflation, Energy Crises, Unemployment)
3-Social(Extremism, Intolerance, Moral Deprivity )
4-Governance(Corruption, Inefficiency,Law and Order )
5-Political (Anti Federation Sentiments , Instability)
6-International (Pak-US Relations, Pakistan's Image in world comity)

These problems enumerated above are not mutually exclusive and exhaustive rather they are linked inter se.

Any proposed change must be effective enough to address these issues. Those who are inviting Army fail to view the situation in broad spectrum or they have their own agenda. First , the circumstances our military is going though prevent it from holding the charge and there seems no effort on the part of Military to make effort for coup.Secondly , the international community will vehemently oppose any unconstitutional change in Pakistan. Thirdly in common perception Military leadership can bring economic turnaround and deliver on governance front.Though both the points are open to debate , yet if the accepted , Army rulers have little capability to solve other problems especially political ones.So in given circumstances , any Military intervention will further exacerbate the morass.

Then what should be the way of change? In my opinion , we have a chance to change the entire system. If in upcoming elections , the entire nation set itself to instigate a change, no force can stop it.What we need to do is only vote not on the basis of personal interests, clans and bradrism , influence etc but on the call of one's conscious.Just vote to the right person.

Currently the ruling class perceive itself to be the unopposed and unchallenged owner of political system. This perception prevent them working in the interest of public and pay heed to public woes. What they are striving for , is protect their position under these myths through sale and purchase of loyalties. They play the political games in drawing rooms and by winning the heavy wieghts to their sides.If the nation prove that no one is heavy weight other than on the basis of ones will to serve , the scansion will change altogether.

If you Change Zardari , Gilani some one else will replace them but the forces holding clout at the helm of affairs will remain there. You can kick them out of Presidency , PM house but stop hundereds of people like them including Qureshis, Khars, Makhdooms, Cahudries, Jatois, Khosas, Sardars etc making place in the corridors of power.

What we need then is en mass rejection of existing lot. Chose new people and make them believe that no other consideration but their performance will entitle them for our vote again. This change of attitude is the only way to change the system.[/QUOTE]


the topic of discussion is does the change of central govt. will put the country on the right track?


my answer is big NO . we can only put our country on a right track by changing our thinking(soch).

ik baar soch badlne dejiye phir jo ana ha cahey wo revolution ha ye khuch aur hamey lane ki zarorat nhi pare gi khud aye ga.phir sab slowly khud settle hota jay ga. koi bhi revoulution lane k lea awam ko phley apni soch balne parte ha.

if we are to have something positive out of democracy then the system should be allowed to continue despite of it being highly corrupt.lets hope that with the peaceful transfer of power from one regime to another,for at least three regimes, would bring about some positive change.

the change of govt would not bring any change unless imran khan is put to power by the people which is second to impossible.

do we have another alternative other than to allow the system to continue?

miltary regime is not the solution.moreover one should not expect much from them as they are facing difficultis in fulfilling their prime responsibilties and taking over the country would be disastrous in such a situation.

very rightly said,bureaucrats can play a positive role in all this situation provided they are willing to.afterall politicians cannot send all the civil bureaucracy on special duty;)

(ma-uoosi kufr na hoti to ma kab ka ma-uoos ho chuka hota:sad)

i personally believe that current crisis will not lead us to the regime change but the FACE CHANGE.why..i have the verdict;

1]the only involved person of PPP in the case is abdul qQADIR gillani.
2]no stake involved of asif ali zardari
3]president is fed up of gilani.and has employed his cards to oust him by a)JAMSHED DASTI who is using sturn language against gilani regarding malfeasance.
b)two persons from SOUTH PUNJAB are awarded with vital ministries(hina rabbani khar(fm),bahadur khan seehar(defence)).

-------------so,a golden chance for zardari to get rid of YOUSAF RAZA.

5]ppp can,t afford to go to midterm because;

a)senate elections in march 2012
b)the interim government may establish a FREE AND FAIR ELECTION COMMISSION. WHICH ppp can,t afford
C)THE NO. OF CORRUPTION CASES WOULD BE OPENED AGAINST THEM SOON AFTER THE DEMISE OF THE CURRENT REGIME.

__________SO, we shouldn,t believe in the fallacy that current government is giving up all now.
NO MIDTERM ELECTION CAN BE ANTICIPATED NOW.