Dear it wd hv been better for you to mention the names of those culprits rather than point scoring here... just gv me their names and proofs and i assure u, wdin few days a writ petition against all those culprits will b lodged in Lahore High Court free of cost on behalf of Balochistan candidates.... step ahead bravo... if u dont wana name them open , just send me their names and details in my email given in my profile, i assure ur name will not be called in question....

sorry to say, how easily u said that u knew few such culprits and even then u tolerated such abuse of merit and here u r talking about Merit???

i will wait ur kind reply.... lets teach a lesson to such culprits... lets be the first drop of rain then....

Actions speak louder than words dear

Dear all,

quota system is also mportant for the backward area students.... and a Lahore, Karachi & Izloo based student cant understand this fact.... if u wana open merit then provide equal educational oppurtunities first...


there must be following sugestions for reforms,

1. the quota system mus mention that only those students will get quota seats who passed their highest degree from their respectiv provinces... for example a baloch who did graduation from punjab or izloo or karachi shd not b gvn quota seat of balochoistan.... there are 70% likely students every year of sindh and balochistan and even AJK who passed their Master of Graduation level from Islamabad, lahore, karachi etc... i myself have whole education throughout pakistan except AJK.

2. in punjab too there must b rural and urban demarcation .... what u peop;e think that a lahore based candidate is equal to a candidate who studied in Border area of punjab like Narrowal, jehlum,khushab etc....

3. open merit must b 50%.remaining must b divided accordingly...

4. army candidates must b gvn a Shut up call.... agar itna dam kham hay to openly compete karain rest of the candidates k saath..

6. another drawback of qouta system is that every province is not gvn required seats according to merit of candidates... look i got 38th position but suppose had there not been DMG seat in AJK, was my 38 position worth of any??? it wd hv bn a loss that even 38 merit from punjab can easily avail his/her top choice but in 2010 a KPK merit 29 could not get even his top 3 choices..... is it the merit and quota???

there must b quota but reforms are needed.....

__________________
K. ALI TIPU (PAS)
DC Jhang (A Passion Cum Dream)

As you have asked for my opinion so I would humbly furnish it....

In my view,quota system has to be abolished gradually.Quotas are not meant to be permanent,immovable objects.They are there to protect,to safeguard and to give equal opportunity to underdeveloped/underpriveleged communities,until they arrive on the same footing as others.Quota system is not totally in line with an exam which by the virtue of its name is a 'competitive federal' exam.But there is no denying the fact that it still remains a necessity in a country like Pakistan,where all the areas have not developed equally in social and educational terms.
I would say,that this system should be abolished gradually.A timeframe of ten years should be given to all the provinces to elevate their educational standrds.Education should be centralized,with a single examining body upto the intermediate examinations.The courses and standards of universities should also be standardised.We first need to provide social and educational infrastructureto the less priveleged provinces,and give them some time to develop and come at par with say,Punjab and KPK.After this timeframe,provincial quota should be replaced with a 'central backward areas quota'.75% seats should be floated on open merit,with 25% seats reserved for backward areas from around the country,whether its rajanpur,rural sindh,baluchistan,bannu,rawlakot etc.
In the time being,the quota system should be refined s that undeserving people don't avail of it.It should be made compulsory that a candidate availing the quota should have resided in the particular province for the last 8 years,and that he/she should have studied in particular(poor) educational institutions.For example,a person from Balochistan who has throughout studied in Punjab should not be allowed to consume Baluchoistan quota.Similarly,a candidate from Sindh-R or SIndh-U who has got education from IBA,SZABIST,NED etc should not be allowed to consume their respectiove quota.If the reason for the quota systemm is that backward communities should be afforded an equal chance,then people who have been educated at premier educational institutnions should be made to compete on the open merit.Let these seats from Sindh and Baluchistan go to the deserving.IBA,NED,SZABIST ka muqaabla PU,UET,LUMS,QAU,UHS se honay dey,because they stand on nearly equal footing.The thing which isn't fair is k PU,UET,QAU etc aapas me muqaabla krein,or IBA or NED muqaabla krein IBA Sukkur or Khairpur University sey.Another ing which shouldn't be their is the Sindh-R and Sindh-U divide.
These are my personal views and not in the capacity of a moderator.I am sorry if I have offended anybody.

__________________
I shall either find a way,or make one
'Wa tu izzu man-ta shaa, wa tu zillu man-ta shaa'

Dear,

Quota systemwas the root cause of our Independance too... dont forget it...

and u r talking that all pakistani govt schools have same infrastructure than let me tell u story of a Chitral based friend.... did u use to go to school on foot 5 km away daily???
do u know the standard of english of balochistan's far flung district candidate?? dont forget that punjab do get lion's share in budget... yes its population is in majority... but if Punjab people are numerous then apply in PMS... its only for Punjab candidates... same is the case for other provinces..

i studied in govt schools of punjab, sindh and KPK.... and in my opinion the standard of education in my punjab schools were much better as compared to KPK and Sind.. its my own experience...

as far as federation is concerned there must b cohesion of all units so that a federation may prosper.... otherwise lets start for a new Bangladesh(Allah forbade)

there must b reforms in quota system but repeal of quota wd do no better.. it will creat Chaos only...

if u abolish Quota system then can u defend Seperate Electorate which was the mother of idea of creation of pakistan????


Reforms reforms and just reforms

__________________
K. ALI TIPU (PAS)
DC Jhang (A Passion Cum Dream)

1. Thanks for honouring the request.
2. I also invited your stance in lieu of the allegation laid against former Prime Ministers (Z.A. Bhutto & Benazir Bhutto) by one of the forum member.
3. Though your suggestions carry weight, yet the country we live in & the people who rule us are too stubborn to ensure us that they'll achieve the targets we set today in a decade's time. Just a reminder, our government frames a 5 YEAR NEP (National Educational Policy) and calls it a vision for future but we have seen successive governments being overthrown before they completed their tenures resulting in framing the new policies every now and then. I cannot put on stake the stakes of people of my province.
4. I also support the idea of carefully vetting a candidate's proforma and inclusion of compulsory 8-10 years residence in the province of domicile. Again, implementation of this clause may pose a question mark as we live in a culture of bureaucracy and they know how to do away with it.

My friends, it took USA more than a century to give equal opportunities to blacks. To date, discrimination prevails. How come we ensure that after a decade things are going to be okay? It's time we should all learn to be see the reality in its eyes.

Regards,

__________________
Verily, His command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says "Be!" - and it is! (Al-Quran)

AoA,

1). The members are apt enough to have deliberations on important issues concerning to the national integrity/cohesion and welfare of the people of Islamic Republic of Pakistan. However, pinching /reprimanding some body/member of the forum should be avoided, similarly point out any race/ethnic group of our motherland should also be ruled out. We all are brethren of the same soil and should consider each others sentiments and respect.

2). To start with i would just like to highlight some important aspects of the discussion, if at all, anything is felt by anybody, I am saying sorry in advance because I do not have any intention to scorn him/them;

A) Very right, especially I will endorse the second point regarding quota for Armed Forces.

B). To some extant agreed. Brother, if Punjab is encroaching upon its weaker areas or Murree, Punjab is being given gas neglecting sui, the problem not only lies with the stronger Punjab but also with the people/legislatures of those areas. If a Prime Minister of Pakistan, many Ministers/MNAs/MPAs from weaker areas of Punjab are not doing anything for their areas, thn at first instance they should be held responsible and trialed. Similarly, if the MNAs from Balochistan are not raising the issues vociferously, thn fore mostly, they should be held responsible for it, later comes the Federation. You or me and our brethren are small parts/pullies of the machinery of Government, we are the implementers and policies are to be framed by legislatures, having representation from all parts of the country and if legislature of that area is not raising any voice, people of that respective area should start with them and ask them instead of raising guns against the Federation!.

As regards your view point that Indian Govt has opened centers which teach free of cost for IAS to poor indians, but in our country the problem is not wholly soly lying with the Federation, rather majority of Academies are being run by the Civil Servants, cant they raise voice for future generation that there should be free of cost coaching to deserving people ? No, because their own shops will be closed and Civil Servants from all areas of the country are involved in this business.

C). i). Yes you are right that quota system may not be abolished at one go.

ii). Sunny you /I are nobody to doubt for candidature of any person.

iii). If for 4 long years somebody raised slogans of Parha Likha Punjab, thn why we are forgetting that what were the Education Ministers of other provinces were doing at that time, why they didnt follow the suit raisinig the same slogan, Parha LIkha Sindh or Parha Likha Balochistan!!.. Are'nt they responsible? I doubt that Punjab got some special funds from Federal Government to move on with the Parha Likha Punjab

iv). Perhaps you have not read the rationale of quota system, as per Article 27 Clause I of the Constitution of Pakistan 1973, worked out/approved by the worthy Z.A Bhutto, the quota system was not be exceeded by twenty years. Study of this Article of Constitution, worthy Z.A. Bhutto himself was not in favour of long standing of quota system perhaps!..

D). Very right.

E). Very right.

3). The quota system is having its roots in pre-partition time and all successive governments of Pakistan upheld the system. The Constitution of Pakistan 1973, as per its Article 27 Clause I (as also referred in para 2 (C-iv)/above), about safeguarding the fundamental rights of the citizens of Pakistan against the discrimination in the federal & provisional government services in these words, has stated,
“No citizen otherwise qualified for appointment in the service of Pakistan shall be discriminated against in respect of any such appointment on the ground only of race, religion, caste, sex, residence or place of birth.”

“Provided that, for a period not exceeding twenty years from the commencing day, posts may be reserved for persons belonging to any class or area to secure their adequate representation in the service of Pakistan.”

This twenty years period was to end in 1993, however, in 1999 the PML-N led government (its pertinent to mention here that the PML N was a Punjab dominated party), passed Sixteenth Amendment Bill and enforced whereby provision of twenty years was extended to twenty further years and now the text of the specific clause in Constitution of Pakistan contain the period of forty years instead of twenty. One should not condemn that Punjab is doing wrong or going to do away with the quota system.

It is incumbent upon the Government (whosoever is in lead i.e. PPPP, PML N, PML Q etc) to make steps for socio-economic uplift of every area of the country so that level playing field can be given to every person. Nevertheless, in current circumstances and even in foreseeable future, it will never by a prudent step to do away with the quota system, though reforms are direly needed.

To start with, the 10% quota of Armed Forces should be removed and this be included in the open merit quota so that meritorious students should not be left behind. Subsequently, reforms are required to be made so that deserving people should not be barred from entry into service , which is also necessitating by the Constitution of Pakistan.

__________________
'Thee woh ik shakhs kay tasawar saay - abb woh ranayee khayal kahaan'

mr red max No doubt Z. A bhutto was a wonder ful leader ..read my post completly. us main Z a Bhutto ka nam as a PM from sindh lia hai use ghlat nai kha main ne....Benazir ne kia kra n mR zaradri ne sindh k liye what they are doing..my appraoch ma y bt rational for some people but not rfor all..jo thk baat hia wo main ne kerd ri.
Prha Likha Punjab k time b i was its critist my dear brother but u have dcided k agle bnde ko ghl;at e khna haui to main kuch nai ker sakta.

or rhi baat bat dual standrds ki to main ne TANZ kia tha adopt nai kia kisi bhi cheez ko main is system ka nai is nation ka bht bra critics main se ik hon..main ne apni life k bht saal is QOM k liye is liye berbaad kiye k ye PAKISTANI hain but u kne mjhe aage se kia sunne ko milta rha BTMIZ, SIRPHIRE ye bdlaon ge is sstem ko..to mere bhai main is sytem ko na bdal ska na bdal skon ga n aap main se koi bhi..
ager koi bdle ga to best of luk to him/her.

__________________
It is Human, who is bad not Religions.

Dear all intended readers,

We are blessed with this Quota System in 1970's in practical manner.... and this has done more harm than good... on bigger scenario we were never united since then... firstly we had lost East Pakistan on apparent ground because of this, then political parties became more provincial although tagging their selves as national, not to mention give vent to lingual distribution and later on hatred among us. And now we are witness of demands of new provinces every other day.

And some one here mentioned about gas in Balochistan.... Jamali Sahab didnt even notice this. this year n last year half of Sindh was inundated... Zardari Sahab was mean while enjoying meals in top notch hotels. There has been unrest in Swat and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and i guess despite of being part of everyother gov, ANP just able to earn a new name for FATA and NWFP. And Khadim e Punjab talks about sasti roti n sasta bazar every day people are doing suicide or becoming a victim of forced labour. And these are the ones , who can eventually make amendments in constitution .. So happy trusting feudals of our own vicinity.

We can’t reform the Quota Sytem here generally and particularly with respect to CSS induction procedures but i am totally against it , with a hope that one day our elected ones take some time from their busiest schedule and start planning and implementing little positive changes if not for whole nation atleast for those who helped them in getting a seat. Education with quality is everyone's right.So i hope instead of introducing Mandarin our current Prime Minister sahab eradicate discriminations of O'levels and matriculation, professional trainings and vocational trainings and most importantly actually existing schools and ghost schools.

May Allah save my beloved Pakistan.Ameen

Quota system is here to stay because we live in a federation. All the constituent units must have equal representation (proportional to the population size) in the federal structure. Hence, a provincial representation in the federation ought to be roughly equivalent to the population percentage. Quota system is the only most suitable way to ensure equal representation of all Pakistanis belonging to different areas. Merit is not everything always. Harmony is also badly required to keep the federation intact.

Therefore, vacancies belonging to Sindh or any other province must not be filled by others. If you want those empty seats then you need to fulfill the criteria laid down by the authorities. If you don't meet that criteria then like a gentleman prepare for the next exam or explore opportunities outside css.

And Pak Army's quota is a separate issue. Our history necessitates such a system. But i hope the civilian government do away with military induction in civil services sooner rather than later.

__________________
Police Service of Pakistan (PSP)
39th Common Training Program

@ Floydian

So you have said that merit is not everything always. Well i think merit is the basis of success of any system. If we have created this institution of FPSC and CSS exam only to satisfy the small provinces then i think the seats should be distributed among them without any test or anything. People are working hard to get more marks just because they think that more they score more would be their chances of allocation. But thats not the case really. Only through hard work and merit based system can Pakistan prosper. Otherwise the chaos that we see in the country would grow day by day. A person who has come through a merit oriented system would have respect for the institutions.