Thursday, April 25, 2024
07:03 AM (GMT +5)

Go Back   CSS Forums > General > Discussion

Discussion Discuss current affairs and issues helpful in CSS only.

Reply Share Thread: Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook     Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter     Submit Thread to Google+ Google+    
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #21  
Old Wednesday, June 20, 2012
Ali Mallah's Avatar
Senior Member
Qualifier: Awarded to those Members who cleared css written examination - Issue reason: CE 2012- Roll No 1988Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason: PMS / PCS Award: Serving PMS / PCS (BS 17) officers are eligible only. - Issue reason: SPSC CCE 2013 - Merit 49 (ETO) BPS-17
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,195
Thanks: 495
Thanked 1,546 Times in 864 Posts
Ali Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samia fakhar View Post
now matter is also of all those decisions which were taken by govt under disqualified PM in the era of 26th april to 19th june.
There is nothing to be worried in this, as the upcoming PM and cabinet will give cover to all these decisions taken during that period by approving hence all these decisions will remain intact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samia fakhar View Post
I am not good in analysing law issues but commonly another question also arise in my mind that the original issue was to write the letter to swiss govt and not to disqualify a rulling PM. The basic problem remains at its core i.e to write letter to swiss banks which i think so PPP will not write till end of its Govt...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rose_pak View Post
I second you. "Chithi" will never be written by a PPP PM. And practically all powers are vested in the party head.
This is the thing that really confuses me as a student of law that the constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, 1973, clearly resolves the issue in article 248(2).

“No criminal proceedings whatsoever shall be instituted or continued against the President or a Governor in any court during his term of office.”

Also article 248(4) No civil proceedings in which relief is claimed against the President or a Governor shall be instituted during his term of office in respect of anything done by or not done by him in his personal capacity whether before or after he enters upon his office.

Looking at these clauses of the constitution, how can the Supreme Court, whose duty is to interpret the constitution, expect the Prime Minister to initiate an cases or reopen any previously made cases against President Asif Ali Zardari?

Not only that, Article 248(1) also has the same for the Prime Minister as it states that he will not be answerable to any court in the country for the actions performed during his term in office... I quote the actual words of article:

The President, a Governor, the Prime Minister, a Federal Minister, a Minister of State, the Chief Minister and a Provincial Minister shall not he answerable to any court for the exercise of powers and performance of functions of their respective offices or for any act done or purported to be done in the exercise of those powers and performance of those functions:
Provided that nothing in this clause shall be construed as restricting the right of any person to bring appropriate proceedings against the Federation or a Province.


What do you people think isn't the fact much clear from articles? I am much clear, you can form your opinion in your way...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rose_pak View Post
[COLOR="blue"]
The PM is convicted under article 63 (1) (g) not (h).
So, the PM is sentenced under Article 63 (1) (g) for propagating any opinion, or acting in any manner, prejudicial to the integrity or independence of the judiciary of Pakistan, or which defames or brings into ridicule the judiciary.

Moreover, the SC has not issued notification by itself, rather it asked the EC to do that. The SC had given option of appeal which the ex-PM exhausted by himself. Furthermore, the power of the speaker NA to send the reference to the EC is not "internal proceedings of the NA". So, it can be, constitutionally, challenged in the court.
Well Yousaf Raza Gillani has been termed to be “ineligible” by the apex court for defaming and/or ridiculing the Supreme Court. Can any one really point a finger towards him for this? Any single such incident when he might have defamed or ridiculed them?

Defaming and ridiculing is something that Nawaz and company did by attacking supreme court, how much punishment he got? redicule is something that Dr. Babar Awan did and does deserve to be punished according to the law, but why his case has been delayed? Only becuase he has left the party silently? Don't you think that court has rewarded him only on grounds of keeping distances from PPP?

In my opinion, I have never heard the unanimously elected P.M speaking against the Supreme Court in such a way other than saying that I, being a defender of the constitution, cannot open up any case against the President.

What is wrong with that? Looking at the constitution article 248, it seems perfectly fine..

Where in the constitution does it say that the Supreme Court is eligible to disqualify a member of the national assembly?

The Supreme Court is stepping over boundaries and will ultimately result to further mayhem in the country which is already under various internal as well as external threats.
__________________
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude...Zig Ziglar
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ali Mallah For This Useful Post:
samia fakhar (Wednesday, June 20, 2012), sarang ali shaikh (Thursday, June 21, 2012), unsolved_Mystery (Thursday, June 21, 2012)
  #22  
Old Wednesday, June 20, 2012
rose_pak's Avatar
40th CTP (IRS)
CSP Medal: Awarded to those Members of the forum who are serving CSP Officers - Issue reason: CE 2011 - Merit 176Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason:
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Islamabad,
Posts: 521
Thanks: 453
Thanked 851 Times in 301 Posts
rose_pak is a jewel in the roughrose_pak is a jewel in the roughrose_pak is a jewel in the roughrose_pak is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alimallah View Post
Well Yousaf Raza Gillani has been termed to be “ineligible” by the apex court for defaming and/or ridiculing the Supreme Court. Can any one really point a finger towards him for this? Any single such incident when he might have defamed or ridiculed them?

Defaming and ridiculing is something that Dr. Babar Awan did and does deserve to be punished according to the law, but why his case has been delayed? Only becuase he has left the party silently? Don't you think that court has rewarded him only on grounds of keeping distances from PPP?

In my opinion, I have never heard the unanimously elected P.M speaking against the Supreme Court in such a way other than saying that I, being a defender of the constitution, cannot open up any case against the President.





If one flouts the orders of SC, it is ridiculing, disrespecting, setting a precedence for non-observance and disobeying. Hence, defaming, as an institution. Defaming and rediculing does not only mean "calling the names".

You are right in your example of Babar Awan. The SC seems to be ignoring/delaying him. However, who Mr. Awan is (just a lawyer now) and who Mr. Gillani is, at the time of proceedings (the Chief Executive of the country). So the difference in responsibility should be considered. If a sitting PM flouts the SC orders, who would obey than?


Quote:
Originally Posted by alimallah View Post
Where in the constitution does it say that the Supreme Court is eligible to disqualify a member of the national assembly?
Please go through article 204 and 63 (1) (g). A clear rout of judiciary's authority to disqualify, through proper procedure, a sitting parliamentarian.



Quote:
Originally Posted by alimallah View Post
What is wrong with that? Looking at the constitution article 248, it seems perfectly fine..

SC did not ask the government to re-open the cases against the president. It merely ordered the government to withdraw a letter written by Justice Qayum. In fact there was a mutual judicial cooperation between gov't of Pakistan and Switzerland on the cases named as Swiss Money Laundering case. The GoP became party to this case in Swiss courts but Malik Qayum, after initiation of NRO, wrote a letter to Swiss gov't that Pakistan does not want more investigations and wants to withdraw. The letter which the SC wants the gov't to write would only withdraw this letter (by Qayum). It does not automatically negates the presidential immunity which is the second step in this process.

Personally, I respect the president and am impressed by his political skills but I don't feel pride having a president allegedly involved in corruption cases. For me, he would have stepped down and would have presented himself for a time bound (say one year) transparent accountability and investigation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alimallah View Post
The Supreme Court is stepping over boundaries and will ultimately result to further mayhem in the country which is already under various internal as well as external threats.
The SC is not stepping over the boundaries. Whatever has been done has strictly been within the limits set by the constitution. However, the SC seems to be impartial and taking sides. This is what which is worrisome and horrendous and would have repercussions.
__________________
Ahmad Shakeel Babar
.
"If you really want to achieve something the whole universe conspires for you to get your dream realized."
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old Wednesday, June 20, 2012
sabahatbhutta's Avatar
42nd CTP (PAAS)
Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason: CSP Medal: Awarded to those Members of the forum who are serving CSP Officers - Issue reason: CE 2013 - Merit 66
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Multan
Posts: 569
Thanks: 475
Thanked 657 Times in 291 Posts
sabahatbhutta is a splendid one to beholdsabahatbhutta is a splendid one to beholdsabahatbhutta is a splendid one to beholdsabahatbhutta is a splendid one to beholdsabahatbhutta is a splendid one to beholdsabahatbhutta is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atif Supermacy View Post
SC has given order accordance with the constitution..as Gilani was not sincere with the order given in the NRO case..well ham logo ka almya yehi hai k ham rotay rehtay hain agar NRO parliament se manzor ho jata than ham phir bhi rotay..well we must respect SC and its order. and please don't relate this one with Bhutto ..
You didn't get my point. I am not relating this to the Bhutto, I am saying that to establish rule of law we don't always need the sacrifices from PM's..
If CJ really want to establish rule of law, then charity begins at home... CJ should open the corruption references against the 4 sitting judges of SC.
I am not saying that CJ should spare politicians my only concern is that Justice should be equal for all.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sabahatbhutta For This Useful Post:
samia fakhar (Wednesday, June 20, 2012)
  #24  
Old Wednesday, June 20, 2012
Atif Supermacy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Residing in Constellation of Unknown
Posts: 284
Thanks: 176
Thanked 271 Times in 140 Posts
Atif Supermacy will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabahatbhutta View Post
CJ should open the corruption references against the 4 sitting judges of SC.
.
would you please enlighten us about this case, It would be appreciated if you quote and explain this "gate" also.
__________________
"When God Want to Humiliate A Person then He Almighty Deprive him of Knowledge" Hazrat Ali A.S
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old Wednesday, June 20, 2012
Ali Mallah's Avatar
Senior Member
Qualifier: Awarded to those Members who cleared css written examination - Issue reason: CE 2012- Roll No 1988Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason: PMS / PCS Award: Serving PMS / PCS (BS 17) officers are eligible only. - Issue reason: SPSC CCE 2013 - Merit 49 (ETO) BPS-17
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,195
Thanks: 495
Thanked 1,546 Times in 864 Posts
Ali Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rose_pak View Post
Please go through article 204 and 63 (1) (g). A clear rout of judiciary's authority to disqualify, through proper procedure, a sitting parliamentarian.
Don't you think that being a member of parliament it was the duty of the Gilani to act upon the constitution? When he read article 248, how can he write any letter to open cases against sitting president which also the supreme commander of your armed forces?

Just tell me What wrong he has done? What is your opinion regarding article 248 without taking any assumptions?
__________________
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude...Zig Ziglar
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ali Mallah For This Useful Post:
samia fakhar (Wednesday, June 20, 2012)
  #26  
Old Wednesday, June 20, 2012
azzee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: land of rising sun
Posts: 287
Thanks: 30
Thanked 185 Times in 141 Posts
azzee is on a distinguished road
Default

@alimallah

The Supreme Court is stepping over boundaries and will ultimately result to further mayhem in the country which is already under various internal as well as external threats

this is your true opinion?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old Wednesday, June 20, 2012
Atif Supermacy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Residing in Constellation of Unknown
Posts: 284
Thanks: 176
Thanked 271 Times in 140 Posts
Atif Supermacy will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alimallah View Post
Don't you think that being a member of parliament it was the duty of the Gilani to act upon the constitution? When he read article 248, how can he write any letter to open cases against sitting president which also the supreme commander of your armed forces?

Just tell me What wrong he has done? What is your opinion regarding article 248 without taking any assumptions?
why did not government appeal for the immunity in the court???
__________________
"When God Want to Humiliate A Person then He Almighty Deprive him of Knowledge" Hazrat Ali A.S
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old Wednesday, June 20, 2012
rose_pak's Avatar
40th CTP (IRS)
CSP Medal: Awarded to those Members of the forum who are serving CSP Officers - Issue reason: CE 2011 - Merit 176Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason:
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Islamabad,
Posts: 521
Thanks: 453
Thanked 851 Times in 301 Posts
rose_pak is a jewel in the roughrose_pak is a jewel in the roughrose_pak is a jewel in the roughrose_pak is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alimallah View Post

Just tell me What wrong he has done? What is your opinion regarding article 248 without taking any assumptions?
Mr. Gillani did not obey the orders of the SC to write a letter to the swiss government to withdraw a letter already written by Malik Qayum. It would have set a precedence of disobeying and flouting the court orders, if went unpunished.

Article 248 says complete immunity for the president. I regard it as a necessary tool for acts without fear or favor. However, merely writing a letter (withdrawing another letter written already) would not have opened the cases. I would have stepped down in such a case where constitution say on the one hand to protect an allegedly corrupt president and on the other hand to obey the judiciary, not only constitutionally but morally as well.

Secondly, why the gov't did not take issue of immunity in SC during the proceedings? Why the gov't did not appeal against the SC Apr 26 verdict? Why the gov't did not get NRO approved from the NA, if it was really a good legislation?

Gillani, being Chief executive of the country, must take responsibility of not initiating a strong accountability system during his period.
__________________
Ahmad Shakeel Babar
.
"If you really want to achieve something the whole universe conspires for you to get your dream realized."
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rose_pak For This Useful Post:
samia fakhar (Wednesday, June 20, 2012)
  #29  
Old Wednesday, June 20, 2012
Ali Mallah's Avatar
Senior Member
Qualifier: Awarded to those Members who cleared css written examination - Issue reason: CE 2012- Roll No 1988Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason: PMS / PCS Award: Serving PMS / PCS (BS 17) officers are eligible only. - Issue reason: SPSC CCE 2013 - Merit 49 (ETO) BPS-17
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,195
Thanks: 495
Thanked 1,546 Times in 864 Posts
Ali Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to beholdAli Mallah is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azzee View Post
@alimallah

The Supreme Court is stepping over boundaries and will ultimately result to further mayhem in the country which is already under various internal as well as external threats

this is your true opinion?
What does true opinion means brother?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atif Supermacy View Post
why did not government appeal for the immunity in the court???
Hmm because Gilani thought that he is obeying constitution article 248 hence no need to write letter and I second his opinion, other reason is that judiciary is biased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rose_pak View Post
Mr. Gillani did not obey the orders of the SC to write a letter to the swiss government to withdraw a letter already written by Malik Qayum. It would have set a precedence of disobeying and flouting the court orders, if went unpunished.

Article 248 says complete immunity for the president. I regard it as a necessary tool for acts without fear or favor. However, merely writing a letter (withdrawing another letter written already) would not have opened the cases. I would have stepped down in such a case where constitution say on the one hand to protect an allegedly corrupt president and on the other hand to obey the judiciary, not only constitutionally but morally as well.

Secondly, why the gov't did not take issue of immunity in SC during the proceedings? Why the gov't did not appeal against the SC Apr 26 verdict? Why the gov't did not get NRO approved from the NA, if it was really a good legislation?

Gillani, being Chief executive of the country, must take responsibility of not initiating a strong accountability system during his period.
Brother by withdrawing Letter written by Malik qauym means the opening of the cases at swiss courts, and article 248 does not allow it. SC ka decission maniny ki bat to baad me aati he, agr consitution mana karta he to court ne order Q kia tha? What were their intentions? In NRO there are thousands of cases, why these are not being opened? Crminal cases against MQM are pending? Can SC give any justification for such kindness?

I am not supporting Gilani/Zardari but just trying to convince you that judiciary has becoem biased and this is not good for democracy or our country.
__________________
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude...Zig Ziglar
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ali Mallah For This Useful Post:
samia fakhar (Wednesday, June 20, 2012)
  #30  
Old Wednesday, June 20, 2012
rose_pak's Avatar
40th CTP (IRS)
CSP Medal: Awarded to those Members of the forum who are serving CSP Officers - Issue reason: CE 2011 - Merit 176Medal of Appreciation: Awarded to appreciate member's contribution on forum. (Academic and professional achievements do not make you eligible for this medal) - Issue reason:
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Islamabad,
Posts: 521
Thanks: 453
Thanked 851 Times in 301 Posts
rose_pak is a jewel in the roughrose_pak is a jewel in the roughrose_pak is a jewel in the roughrose_pak is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alimallah View Post

I am not supporting Gilani/Zardari but just trying to convince you that judiciary has becoem biased and this is not good for democracy or our country.
I dont disagree with you, at least it seems. But I wont use the word biased rather i would say the SC has seemingly not been impartial and selective in its approach. However, the point to ponder is, even if it is selective it is still doing good, better than being idle.
__________________
Ahmad Shakeel Babar
.
"If you really want to achieve something the whole universe conspires for you to get your dream realized."
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Asma Jilani ---- Vs---- Govt. of the Punjab sajidnuml Constitutional Law 5 Saturday, November 11, 2017 06:00 PM
Chronological order of major events in Islamic History Babban Miyan Ding Dong Islamiat 1 Monday, May 28, 2012 10:59 PM
Islamic History (Chronology) Zulfiqar Shah Islamic History & Culture 0 Monday, June 27, 2011 12:09 PM
Islamic History (Chronology) Nek Muhammad Islamic History & Culture 0 Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:47 PM
History of Islam (Year by Year) Shabab368 Topics and Notes 2 Tuesday, October 06, 2009 12:34 PM


CSS Forum on Facebook Follow CSS Forum on Twitter

Disclaimer: All messages made available as part of this discussion group (including any bulletin boards and chat rooms) and any opinions, advice, statements or other information contained in any messages posted or transmitted by any third party are the responsibility of the author of that message and not of CSSForum.com.pk (unless CSSForum.com.pk is specifically identified as the author of the message). The fact that a particular message is posted on or transmitted using this web site does not mean that CSSForum has endorsed that message in any way or verified the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message. We encourage visitors to the forum to report any objectionable message in site feedback. This forum is not monitored 24/7.

Sponsors: ArgusVision   vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.