I think this is an excellent precedent set by GEO TV. In a democracy, each and every institution has to answer for everything it does. No institution is free from free inquiry and criticism if it blatantly misuses its power, which is precisely what the security establishment of Pakistan has been doing since always. If other institutions can be criticized, so can be the military establishment.

As for Hamid Mir case, clearly there is no evidence for the time being for declaring ISI responsible (However, it's good that the issue has sparked a debate about the dubious role of these agencies). FIR was lodged without Mir's being recovered and was lodged from a police official, not from Hamid Mir. However, should GEO be downright banned because of accusing ISI? No. That's just ridiculous.

Are you presuming that ISI has a cent percent rate of achieving targets? I wouldn't bet too high on an agency that claims it did not know about OBL in its own backyard. And that has not been able to save GHQ and its own headquarters and bases from terrorist attacks.

[QUOTE=Gypsified;715263]I'm sure you have no idea what pseudo-intellectual means so I'll not waste my time engaging you on that. If you think someone writing a book which is well researched and full with evidence and yet s/he is a "pseudo", you should confine yourself to real intellectual text books."

Well researched book...if you mean Military Inc. by this then I must feel pity on your knowledge of research. Her book is full of "jumping to conclusion" cases without strong justification. After reading that book one finds Pak Army root of all evils in Pakistan. She has tried to target Pak Army and its top echelon and most of her accusations are based on self-serving assumptions. She has tried to mold facts to prove her false assumptions. According to her, for example, MILBUS is army's business which is a tool to transfer budget from defence or public sector to the individuals related with army. She has put many other accusations against army. But she does not explain (or does not have that much intellectual abilities to understand) that MILBUS is successful because great visionary and leadership skills of military. There is no harm in raising independent and successful resources in order to gain self-reliance in defence and strategic areas. There should be no problem if Army utilizes its profits for the provision of benefits to the retired soldiers. In a way, it decreases burden on the public budget. For your information, MILBUS is not specific case in Pakistan. It is a common practice among top armies of the world. Ayesha Jalal's criticism on Pakistan MILBUS is unnecessary. It seems that sole purpose of her book is to malign Pak army. After reading her book, one feels every successful business in Pakistan is run by the army in its predatory style. It is not the case though. Military businesses comprise only a very tiny proportion of Pakistan's corporations. Just see KSE 100 index and enlist military businesses in it.

Yes you should know this...who stops you doing this...Army does not conceal such information...anyway if you being TAXPAYER expects that army should give all sensitive information then there is a big NO for you. May be you are an expert of constitutional rights issues and I have very limited knowledge but I know one thing state is more important than constitution. If you will preach hatred towards defence institution of Pakistan through book or media...that book or channel should be not only banned but also tried on treason charges. I think allowing people to malign defence institutions in the name of constitutional rights is an absurd idea.

Thanks God you have some respect for our Shaheeds. Yes, more citizens have sacrificed but these numbers would have been greater many times if our jawans had not fought to safeguard the nation.

I must call this comparison biased and baseless. I suggest you to go through history before making your conclusion based on your assumptions. Just tell me what is budget of both armies. You say Indian army has never derailed democratic process, it is just because of quality of their civil leadership not because of discipline of their army. They have never murdered politicians and elected presidents. You are factually wrong here. (Indira Gandhi was assassinated by Indian soldiers not by 'infiltrators' of Lashkar e Taiba). Just read about Indian military-industrial complex before giving your baseless and wrong arguments. Indian military also run businesses. Now it is intellectual dishonesty on your side...you are maligning Pak Army for the sake of doing it. And yes Indian army is involved in murder of thousands of innocent people in Kashmir. If this is criterion of your comparison then you are right. It seems you do not have a tinge of knowledge of HUMAN RIGHTS though. What about human rights violation by Indian army?

It is you who THINKS (I doubt on it though) that ISI is one of the worst intelligence agencies. Dear, fortunately your flawed thinking does not change reality. ISI is accepted as one of the best intelligence agencies. You do not agree then who cares.

ISI is a double edge sword neither it is paragon of virtue nor it is evil in its entirety.The intentions of the ISI have always been right but their method of performing their due role is questionable!
Those who are questioning the necessity of the very existence of the supreme intelligence agency are naive. Suppose the government bans ISI. Now the Raw will carry out its nefarious agenda of spreading insurgency in Balochistan and fanning the stream of terror across this land of pure because they will be confident that they won't face similar sort of retaliation back home because there is no ISI. Now what will you do? Raise voices at puppet international forums or wage a nuclear war against india?
The existence of ISI makes sure that Indians and their evils thought are in check.
On the other hand the secret agency has allegedly resorted to extract judicial killings within the country which should be condemned but how? The agency is the sacred cow of this country. No institution can knock it down or check it's mandate except masses. So Geo has somehow done the right thing but again their method of doing right thing is questionable. Remember means does justify ends. Now what???are we in a quagmire?
In quintessence, ISI should reveal the culprits behind the attack and i believe they have the capacity to do so if ISI does not then the Sacred cow should be punished by exercising proverbial justice and if it does then yes Geo should be penalized!

It certainly is evil if there are no proofs in this regard. Do you have any of those?

There are many but take "nuclear power" as example . ISI has a colossal contribution in making this country a nuclear power!

Yes that's right but my dear there is hell of difference between criticizing and acting as a judge. The goons at the geo news have turned the bloody newsroom into a Supreme court where they were calling the shots against the ISI. So you second this approach. Is this democracy?

OBL was caught in Pakistan and you want ISI to announce publicly that they knew about the presence of the OBL ??? Have you calculated the cost of this confession? How are you so sure that ISI was oblivious of this stark fact?

Tell me about other armies dealing in real estate, banking, fertilizer production, consumer products (corn flakes) etc. Military Inc. gave details about these too. What other armies are doing this, please tell me?

From their track record of miserable failures, it seems even eating up the resources of entire country has not resulted in that self-reliance.

1. No one is asking for sensitive defense information.

2. No one is preaching hatred against defense institutions, only asking for accountability.

3. Asking for accountability is not equal to maligning a defense institution. If it is, FBI has faced far more "malice" than ISI and that is precisely what made it accountable to the people.

Yes, I understand a lot of people presume a lot of things about people who do not agree with them, so I decided to clarify it at the outset that I have nothing against the soldiers.

As for them fighting to guard us, if they hadn't patronized the militant forces in past, things would have been easier for all of us. There would not have been any reason to sacrifice so many lives.

You have not answered any of my points. But I'll respond of yours and repeat mine in the end. Indra Gandhi was assassinated by her sikh guards who were angry about Indian Army's actions against the sikhs. This actually is a reverse case because it was Indra Gandhi, a civilian PM, who had ordered army to do that. Find a PM-military clash here for me.

So, my points were:

1. Has Indian army derailed democracy? Your answer? Indra Gandhi's assassination?

2. They have won wars.

I understand it's painful for us to answer this which is why you evaded that.

3. They don't kill politicians and PMs.

Again, Indra Gandhi?

4. They don't patronize extremism.

Yes, Indian army is indulged in brutality in Kashmir but guess who is in charge? The civilian government. And no one has absolved Indian army of human rights violations. But has the military establishment nourished extremist and sectarian outfits? No.

OBL embarrassment, GHQ attack, Mehran Air Base attack and other attacks, which are becoming a norm, on security bases and establishments tell the bitter truth about the efficiency of this best intelligence agency. And being Godfather to extremism and sectarian in the country is another testimony to its having fascist tendencies.

Now go ahead, tell me the achievements that made it one of the best intelligence agencies in the world.

No one is questioning the existence of secret agencies, only making them accountable.

I agree with that.

I already said there is no evidence against ISI for the time being so the accusations are clearly unfounded. However, banning Geo for raising suspicions about the role of ISI in such an incident is completely wrong.

I agree with that too. That was quite an achievement and I have no qualms in admitting that.

That's how they are raised! Educated to believe that Military and ISI are sacred cows and never to be questioned because they are defending our borders! For that reason something needs to be fixed in our Education system (I made a thread for that, nobody paid attention :P )

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He that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow (Ecclesiastes 1:18)

I am all for media regulations and ethics. If Geo is wrong, it should be duly punished. But banning a whole network because of this is not acceptable. This knee-jerk reaction has become a part of our culture and it's only destructive.

Okay, let's say that OBL was sheltered by Pakistani intelligence agencies (because they have a long track of sheltering terrorists). In that case, where was ISI when the Americans came in the dead of night with their helicopters from across the border all the way to Abbotabad and made off with OBL. Sleeping? A pretty lousy job on such an important task.

Agreed! Our education system is mother of all ills. Our education system is breeding terrorism, nurturing militancy, perpetuating sectarianism, imbeding wrong ideologies, producing millions of unskilled,ill equipped jobless youth and fanning social intolerance, resultantly our nation has been turned into an inferno.

Reforming education is our only panacea otherwise we will doom forever but how and who will do that?

Well this culture of tightening the noose around the suspect first and then asking for investigation by our Media needs to be amended...plus News network should also realize that Pakistan is in a state of perpetual war against terrorism and such baseless visceral accusations are demoralizing our Jawans.

Dadagiri needs to replaced by responsibility. I think actions should be taken against the management team, but not against the entire news network upon which thousands rely for livelihood.

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"The unbelievers plotted and God planned, but God is a much better planner" [Surah Al-Imran 3:54]

So I am of the opinion that strong measures need to b taken in this regard. Definitely Geo is not all that innocent as it is showing. At least 1year ban should be imposed to set a example to avoid such an incidents in the future