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  #21  
Old Friday, July 18, 2014
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But in the end, both Israel and Hamas have contributed in making a terrible mess of the lives in Gaza. Recently a document was circulated on the internet written by a few young people from Gaza. It depicts the frustration of the people of Gaza with both Israel and Hamas.

What do we expect of the people of a conflict ridden country? People who live in caged cities. Majority of Palestinians are an uncivilized lot. For peace is the key condition for a civilization to evolve and they haven't tasted peace for all their history.

A solution isn't very far away in future now because public opinion is against Israel throughout the world and soon the politicians will have to respect that. Once Palestinians are free they will be making their experiments in elections and governance. They will make mistakes but they will be able to learn from them because then they won't be able to point out to correlation (Israel) rather than causation (their wrong vote) for the mess.
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What do we expect of the people of a conflict ridden country? People who live in caged cities. Majority of Palestinians are an uncivilized lot. For peace is the key condition for a civilization to evolve and they haven't tasted peace for all their history.

A solution isn't very far away in future now because public opinion is against Israel throughout the world and soon the politicians will have to respect that. Once Palestinians are free they will be making their experiments in elections and governance. They will make mistakes but they will be able to learn from them because then they won't be able to point out to correlation (Israel) rather than causation (their wrong vote) for the mess.
I have a different perspective on that, civilization arise among chaos and conflict not in peaceful environment. For example Islamic civilization itself arose from chaotic arabia, or even Israel arose among chaos
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A solution isn't very far away in future now because public opinion is against Israel throughout the world and soon the politicians will have to respect that.
example of public opinion changing politicians or israeli mindset please
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A solution isn't very far away in future now because public opinion is against Israel throughout the world and soon the politicians will have to respect that.
Public opinion against Israel also make militants more aggressive and overconfident and they keep doing what they do so this helps both Israel and militants and the victims are only innocent civilians, this is another way to look at it

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A solution isn't very far away in future now
Yeah perhaps this could be argued because one thing sure has changed. Presence of hostile neighboring powers is what caused Israelis to build up massive military power in the past, but it can no longer continue to use massive military might against rouge militancies so situation is going to change soon but perhaps we cannot predict what will be the outcome of this change. At present there seems to be no workable solution to this problem because evidence suggest that the Palestinians are very less able to form a democratic state, they would probably seek an authoritarian state which Israel (and the world) won't let them build. But Israeli military tactics sure are gonna change and it will have an impact on overall situation
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Last edited by Gotam; Saturday, July 19, 2014 at 12:05 AM. Reason: chain posts
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Arabs will be in slight majority if a single state is agreed upon out of the territory of mandatory Palestine. Would Israel be willing to surrender its authority to the Arab majority? Would all citizens of this state become instantly equal before the law, with all rights and responsibilities of the citizen, without discrimination?
I think an apartheid would be a safe expectation.
Israel's population was 7.908 million and Palestinian territories -Gaza, West Bank- population was 4.047 million as of 2012. And there just aren't Jews and Muslims, there are Druze, Christians etc. Further majority in numbers is not the only source of power. Remember South Africa?

Not instantly but with time, that's what a secular state does, it doesn't discriminate on the basis of religion. So whatever the religious or racial distribution of the region it will not matter.

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Arabs living in Israel aren't very positive about state of Israel. You can have a look on the surveys given in the Wikipedia article. Exceptions can be there.
Even Jews living there esp. indigenous are not very positive about Israel. It shows there's a problem with the Israeli state and that needs to be changed.

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It does prove things. Seculars and liberals would bash those kids and journalists if such comments were made by Pakistani kids about Indians or Hindus.
Same there.


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But not many of such organizations are an elected majority in Islamic countries. I tried to link Hamas's popularity to Israeli aggression not its existence.
Only in Gaza. And a culture of fear persists there thanks to Hamas. From where do they derive their electoral success from? Barrel of the gun. I don't deny the Israeli factor but Hamas like organizations could sprout out anywhere in the current Muslim world.
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But Israeli military tactics sure are gonna change and it will have an impact on overall situation
Taking on this theory the future events would be like this, Israel would avoid massive retaliation in future and use 'limited power' in retaliatory attacks, which might be intelligence based raids and use of drones etc. In order to make it possible Israel would extend cooperation to Palestinians. Israel perhaps has gained something from its current strategy which is turning Palestinian public opinion against the militants, so now it would make them some offers of rebuilding and economic opportunities etc . Any political solution to the current conflict would be possible once militancy looses political ground . Perhaps Israel would pursue same strategy against Isis and other middle eastern militants which would aim to change arab public opinion about Israel and in turn help Israel rise as a dominant power in the middle east .
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Yeah perhaps this could be argued because one thing sure has changed. Presence of hostile neighboring powers is what caused Israelis to build up massive military power in the past, but it can no longer continue to use massive military might against rouge militancies so situation is going to change soon but perhaps we cannot predict what will be the outcome of this change. At present there seems to be no workable solution to this problem because evidence suggest that the Palestinians are very less able to form a democratic state, they would probably seek an authoritarian state which Israel (and the world) won't let them build. But Israeli military tactics sure are gonna change and it will have an impact on overall situation
So you mean that Israel is a peaceful nation on earth and it were only hostile Arabs who caused them to be so aggressive. Otherwise Israel is innocent????????

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

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So you mean that Israel is a peaceful nation on earth and it were only hostile Arabs who caused them to be so aggressive. Otherwise Israel is innocent????????
i think what he is saying is that israel is playing smart.

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Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
of course it is
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Y Presence of hostile neighboring powers is what caused Israelis to build up massive military power in the past
Please make me wise on that.

Was Creation of Israel not the biggest conspiracy against Islam?

How on Earth a tiny nation of area 20,770 is existing surrounded on all sides by Muslim Arab Nations which are 650 folds large than total area of Israel i.e 13,486,861 square km?

Also, Supreme irony that such a negligibly small nation state is not only existing but is successfully pursuing its hegemonic designs against Arab & Muslim world maintains supremacy as well.

Whole Arab has not been able to respond effectively to Israel as yet.

Arab League and OIC are silent.
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How on Earth a tiny nation of area 20,770 is existing surrounded on all sides by Muslim Arab Nations which are 650 folds large than total area of Israel i.e 13,486,861 square km?
Population and area are not the sole determining factors for defining a state's power and influence, England a tiny island nation rose to dominate large parts of the world . The jews struggled for this land since thousands of years. They faced exile, lived in foreign lands, faced persecution and massacres etc but still they maintained their nationhood and contributed greatly to the building of nation-states and modern world. Imagine how much they have learned in the fields of politics, economy and business, industry making, state building and military tactics. Still they face many internal challenges viz. the Jewish Question (whether they are a race or a religion or a people or what, kind of identity crisis, they are not as politically united as you would perceive as religious zionism has different goals than political zionism, revisionist zionism is altogether different and cultural zionism also hold different views ) and external challenges viz. hostility towards jews. Israel for atleast two times as far as I can know has come to face existential crisis; once during 1947 arab Israeli war and other perhaps during 1972 or something (after war of annihilation with Egypt, during youm kippur war or something when the US was not sending them supplies and help and they were ready to launch nuclear strikes if overcome by Egyptian forces). But anyways, the purpose of mentioning this is not to post a positive image of Israel or the Jews, because there is something very sinister about them indeed perhaps, but only to make it clear how a tiny nation is able to overcome all Arab mammoths, who only know tribal and sectarian warfare and nothing else .

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How on Earth a tiny nation of area 20,770 is existing surrounded on all sides by Muslim Arab Nations which are 650 folds large than total area of Israel i.e 13,486,861 square km?
As Hitler would say, this vampire the jew has sucked enough mass from the gentiles that now it is a giant on its own .
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