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  #41  
Old Thursday, June 14, 2007
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555


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So, why to waste those engineering seats only to have a well off spouse?

That’s not a new form of male chauvinism. Actually it’s not your fault. This is the patriarchal society that has been injecting this particular kind of thinking. You are one such victim. God! Have mercy on chauvinists!


We have been accustomed to such statements which try to motivate that by getting admitted to universities girls only try their luck in so-called “spouse hunt”. Campuses are only there for match-making. Well, we had 2000 students in our university in one department. And I can hardly find an example that ended up with a love-match (a marriage for love, not money, status, etc.). So much for the spouse match! And if that happens and one ends up with a marriage that’s not bad either [Word of caution: I’m not talking about those lovey-dovey birds which do not have the courage or the will for a commitment and for me commitment is only marriage]



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You talked about women engineers working in the field, I had 26 lady engineers passed out with me but I didn’t hear of anyone working in the field. Yes, there are two of them in the teaching field. One of them in telecomm but she is in the office and never visited sites.


As far as engineer females are concerned, I have some acquaintances who are working on sites. But my example [and not even yours] is not enough to go round to generalize a social attitude. Suffice to say female peasants are there in considerable number. And since we are discussing the hijab, literacy or illiteracy is not an issue here. A woman remains a woman with all her female features irrespective of literacy issue.



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It is the hard-core fact that majority of the sapiens are self-centered chauvinists: chauvinists of their sex, of their culture, of their religion and more broadly of their respective civilization.

Yes, that’s absolutely right. When it is depicted in political terms, we call it Fascism, Nazism or Hitlerism. When we talk about this chauvinism in communist world, we call it Stalinism. When it is portrayed in true militarily sense we call it Prussianism or Militarism. When it is related to culture, we call it Ethnocentrism. In religious terms it is often known as Fundamentalism with a superior sense (or perhaps Religious Fascism). And when it is ascribed to gender discrimination, we call it male chauvinism. The difference between the latter and former is that while all other aforementioned –isms are time-specific, bound to particular region, group, history and geography, male chauvinism is prevalent irrespective of all those factors (time, group, history and geography). Though those –isms do come back but then vanish after some time. But male chauvinism is constant and steady in its pursuance.


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Woman is the sole carrier of sense of honor (if she is seen by someone, it should be a matter of declaration of war among still tribal mindsets)

True! Very true!


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West, too, has its sets of bigoted approaches, we here the followers of a religion interpreted centuries ago nursing notions that everything is final for this great progressive religion have locked it into prison-house of orthodoxy to which Altaf Hali refers as a majlis jahaan batti hae naa diya which cannot truly enlighten the dark house of souls,,, whither and whence ijtihad?


Yes many Muslims think that they are done with the consensus building measures and there is no room for flexibility. I wonder why they cannot read the Allah’s recurrent assertion to mull deeply over the human life and all related issues.


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this morally superior male comes forward to impose more restrictions in the name of religion or culture or civilization.

Agreed!
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  #42  
Old Friday, June 15, 2007
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@vanity unleashed
Hijab , educatin and profession are interlinked as the choice of profession , institution and type of qualification affects aones ability to work and the kind of dressing alongwith hijab.


@DUUA
Please notify me a place where a female civil engineer attends a site at the 10th floor of a plaza and working with labourers as most of the male engineers do.And this is not male-chauvinism.Whenever we don't find any arguments in such case , we simply call it chauvinism.

@Yasser

No one can impose restriction on the delicate sex , bus allah hi hai in ko Hidayat de tou.All off them make speeches but do whatever they like.Europe and West has seen the fruits of introducing females to the economic activity in the name of liberty and emanicipation and we will see it soon.
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  #43  
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Go and read my post again. The point where I made this observation (regarding male chauvinism) was your remarks about the spouse hunt. This is a typical mode of thinking. By no means you’ve to buy my idea. But yes this is male chauvinism when people let their frustration out by passing such comments.


I agree girls simply waste seats when they first adopt engineering profession (or in fact any other profession) but later they do not pursue it. Such practice is never appreciated since they are only wasting national resources. But apart from that, making a generalization that girls take admission just to get hooked on is simply ridiculous and nasty and shows the shallowness of mind.
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  #44  
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@DUUA
Firstly, i didn't term the admission to an institution as spouse-hunt.I meant that if they don't do the job anf after getting married leave their profession,the only purpose of that degree seems ,to have a well-educated spouse, nothing else.The meagre number of females entering into the professional field and retaining it after marriage prove my point.They must do the job after marriage if their purpose of acquiring degree is not, to have a well-off husband.Delivering speeches in favour of woman-emanicipation is a fashion , in actuality, women are enslaved by women themselves.When women are acquiring the education which is appropriate for them that is for which they do not have constraints in the professional filed, i think they can work very well with or without hijab in such case.Women have natural limitations in certain cases as men have in certain other cases.If we work according to those natural limitations, it will prove beneficial for the society and for women themselves.Please, don't be sentimental as i am not finger-pointing.

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  #45  
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Originally Posted by 555

@DUUA
Please notify me a place where a female civil engineer attends a site at the 10th floor of a plaza and working with labourers as most of the male engineers do.And this is not male-chauvinism.Whenever we don't find any arguments in such case , we simply call it chauvinism.
I try to reply your contention on behalf of Duua(though I'm sure she is quite poisitively and impressively persuasive advocate towards what she wants to say).Dear,we have a construction company and have first-hand experience of the practices of a civil engineer at site, which gives me sufficient authority to deliberate that an engineer perhaps rarely needs to work with labourers as there are surveyers, etc., there to do those things which you perhaps are referring to.Moreover, a female engineer can be given any responsibility which she can perform by sitting in office as preparation of bar-bending schedule and many other project management duties;after all there are many jobs to be performed there the only thing which matters is that willingness on the part of us the males to accommodate them.This is just one example case this can be stretched to any other profession.Dear,bear in mind one thing the human half which can host,feed and finally brings a new human in the world through a process which is not-so-easy can perform many so-called mardaana haimmat waalay kaam.This can be witnessed in the routines of some rural women working in the fields(honestly all this seems sufficient to me melt this mardaana chauvinism in us the males).

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@Yasser

No one can impose restriction on the delicate sex , bus allah hi hai in ko Hidayat de tou.All off them make speeches but do whatever they like.Europe and West has seen the fruits of introducing females to the economic activity in the name of liberty and emanicipation and we will see it soon.
Whither this dream scenario that males haven't placed psychological and physical limits on the half of humanity.I,personally,think Europe isn't going vry bad,however, if we are unable to appreciate properly their initiative twards women empowerment (rest assured it's just beginning they still have to go a long way in this regard and their collective-male- consciousness has yet to achieve a psychological reconciliation with this initiative).And for us the Oriental consciences this idea will remain like a stone in stomach for a long time.


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  #46  
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@yasser
Bhai, you can work on a project lay-out when you are well-versed with its field activities and have worked on it for quite sometime.Engineers don't work with labourers but they have to interact with them during the project execution.You have the construction company, but still you don't find a lady civil engineer.

Yes, europe is far better than us in women-emanicipation.They have emanicipated them from all dressing and moral limitations.Now, please don't say that these limitations are not important.In Germany almost twenty thusand people embrace islam annually and almost 80 percent of them are women.Their chief motivator in this regard is the resposibility of bread-earning which has been deligated to husband.I talk only baout islamic limitaions as islam is the chief source of guidance for us and it is important to the people like me.And Islam allows a woman to work where her delicacy and soul is not harmed.
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  #47  
Old Monday, July 02, 2007
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Default hijab

aslam-o-alakium, i read opinions of all of the members who posted their replies.I think we all are confused about the true and real concept of hijab as well as its mechanism. Islam gives a best dress code. we have clear outlines in quran,hadith and sunnah.we should follow those values irespective of the fact that someone is happy or not. i dont think hijab impedes one's progress.In my feeling it makes u more focal on ur work and discards male factor of distraction. I think its a matter of one's believe in himself that determins the extent of his effort. In my opinion these are more fake justifications rather than real facts that hijab is causing a hardle in someone's progress. allah hafiz.
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  #48  
Old Monday, July 02, 2007
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Thumbs up Well said!!

@an eternal wellwisher
Agreed.
I appreciate your understanding on this issue.
May Allah give all of us courage to accept the TRUTH.

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Smile women and hijab

I would like to comment on the issue women and hijab.I think that it is a very conservative approach to judge a women's ability by hijab.In my life i have seen both of the examples like women in hijab doing good and women in hijab doing bad.same is the case for the women without hijab.So ultimately my experience tells me that it is not one's dressing that matters but the talent and skills one has.Trust me if one is really talented then hijab should not be an abstacle in its projection.It is not the hijab that is a problem it is ones mentality that matters.
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  #50  
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Talking Back to square NONE

Back to square NONE

Sister. We have almost concluded the thread after so many discussion. I request you to go through the complete post thoroughly.
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