This topic has been debated about already. Still I would like to get some stance on wheather a state should be secular or religious? Specially what about Pakistan? We have always heard that it was taken on the name of islam and after separation majority of the muslims migrated to Pakistan reason being they were not treated well in that part of sub continent. So, basically with muslim majority it is an islamic state, correct me if I am wrong. So can an islamic state be secular still? And relating to yesterdays parade where miziles and air crafts were shown with islamic slogan , does that make a state or army theocratic? Are these slogans against the concept of secularism?

According to my views a state should be purely Islamic, there should be no concept of secularism in it. But I am not talking about so called Islamic states like IS (Islamic State) of Abu Baker Al Baghdadi, who is betraying the people with the name of Islam, I am also against of Boko Haram who is creating trouble in Nigeria. I am talking about that pure Islamic State which was established by four Pious Islamic caliphs who were elected by others but not self declared.

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مجھے ہے حکمِ اذاں

I think a state should be a secular state rather than Islamic state because in the name of religion everyone shows extremism . If we want to improve our condition we must change our views . Our saint like Shah Waliullah and Imam Sindhi were also secular persons.

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"The KNOWLEDGE of WORDS is the Gateway to Scholarship".

Islam is the religion of peace, it does not teach the lesson of extremism. If we will live in a pure Islamic state, then there will be peace. Allah almighty also says against of extremism in the Holly Quran in these words:
"Fight in the way of Allah who fight with you but do not transgress. Indeed, Allah does not like transgressors" (Surah Bakrah Ayah 190)

Extremism, which we are facing now is due to our wrong policies like Islamisation policy of General Zia-Ul-Haq in which he for getting the support of some orthodox clerics he adopted the policy against Shia Muslim. The base of pure Islamic state would be peace, not extremism. Islam does not teach us to start sectarian violence. The problem is that we do know the reality of Islamic state that how the Islamic state should be. In pure Islamic state if the Friday prayer sermon will be issued from the government and same sermon will be announced, then there will be no extremism.

Now come to Shah Waliullah. Whoever told you that Shah Waliullah was a secular then he must be wrong. You need to study much more. Shah Waliullah was the person who opened the doors of Ijtehad, he was against secular democracy for Islamic State. Shah Waliullah wrote that Islam is the complete code of life. It guides masses in all walks of life. The he elaborated about Islamic state that an Islamic state has two essential organs
1:- Sharia (Law)
2:- Caliphate.
While describing simple state he gave the definition of state in these words "A state is a political association with effective sovereignty over a geographic area and representing a population."

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مجھے ہے حکمِ اذاں

Exactly my point, if an islamic state is not good then why hazrat Ali Hazrat umar used to run such successful system so much so that its been adopted by west. Now a days due to talbanization people have started thinking that its need of a time to be secular. If its the need of time then what are we fighting for? Just to protect a piece of land? No , we are protecting beleifs.

Romans ran a successful system based on slaves. Both Persia and Egypt wielded more power in their heyday than Islam did in its time. But so what? Your argument proves nothing. Show that a religious system of government is better than a secular one in the 21st century. Stop giving examples from the 7th century.

Please tell me exactly what has been adopted by the West? If you're talking about the welfare system, provide conclusive proof that the western welfare system is a direct adaption of the Islamic system and not a result of social forces in Europe in the 19th century. Yes, you can say that Islam introduced a welfare system years before the West did, but you can't say that the Western welfare system has been adopted from Islam without proof.

Define extremism. In my book imposing a separate tax on non-Muslims is very extreme. Maybe not for you.


All secular states with strong legal systems are peaceful. Law & Order has very little to do with religion.

responding a question as an intermittent path is considered as a taboo here.I don't know why we are heavily loaded forks of prejudiced tone. Keeping an unbridled religiosity as depicted on previous day at Ghantta ghar Faisalabad.before drawing to a conclusion what's your opininoin about today's mullas so called islamization.Who are indifferent to atrocities as waged on general public on daily basis but were mobed at obssessive usage of loud speaker and think about (cii-coucil of Islamic ideology) self proclaimed jurisprudence had dismissed Usage of DNAtest for recognition of rapist and considered as unislamic.
whats the stuff is this????
Asking a question is seriously restricted. religious authority consider oneself as unquestionable than how Islam percepts true reality.
Though Quran is stressing on objectivity and justification.(Incidence of hazrat ibrahims belief is a perfect paradigm.
today we need reformed aspect of seen I Islam(mean code of life which was inspired from holy prophets life that is streamlined with tranquility simplicity and accountability)
But practically such state would be an unachievable dream keeping the politics of contemporary scenario.
conclusion;intermediate line i.e.politics must be religious free(keep my word religion not seen)
oh yeah what's happening on world politics America is targeting secularist Muslim states such as Iran and Syria and is blind towards worlds emporer.
secularists himself has many pitfalls such as ethics free society democracy is wrapped up under dictatorship.(America)facism in ukarine ;absolute freedom of expression and speech(d/f exist b/w absolute and prescribed limit)
moral bankruptcy (machiavellism neomaltus and neodarwinism that power superiority and world resources must be controlled by the one who is surviving the war of fittest interestingly impartial play ground is set either imf crushed non entities (poor people)or wage a war on terror .
both seems at failure but my opinion is that follow teachings of Islam and that make scientific considerations ( an glorious asset of secularism and modernization )as tied up rope to progress and prosperity.ii

Iran is secular?

Are you talking about the USA? It is the most religious country in the developed world.

And what is wrong with it?

Define moral bankruptcy. At this point there are few states more morally bankrupt than Pakistan, supposedly a religious country.

Jalale padshahi ho kih jamhoori tamasha ho
Juda ho Deen Siyasat say to reh jatee hai Changayzi (Iqbal)

You are talking in that tune in which now a day America based NGOs talks, like they say that Islamic system does not give justice by imposing Jizya and giving a half share to women in inheritance. If we don't know the reality that we should not argue. So I gonna describe the reality of these points

JIZYA:
Actually Jizya is the alternate of Zakat from Non Muslims, Zakat is collected from Muslims but Jizya from non Muslims. In Islamic State able bodied Muslim young men have to the join Army, but those who are not Muslim are not allowed to go for Jehad nor join the Army so those non Muslims who are able bodied are imposed jizya because they don't participate in war.

Inheritance:
Women get a half share of inheritance because they don't have to support their families and she also gets another share of inheritance from her husband's side.

How you can say that all secular states are peaceful? Last year where the peace had gone when some people killed many people in China when they were waiting for a train on railway station? Where the peace had gone when the riots started in London and Spain? Where the peace had gone when John F Kennedy was assassinated? I don't think that if there is a secular state, then secularism will give you guarantee that there will be peace.

So the religious system of governments where there are strict Islamic laws, like laws related to blasphemy, but these countries are better than many secular countries with stable economies like the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and Brunei.

Yes West has adopted our system of government. It was our system that a single caliph would rule on the whole Islamic states and he would send his governors to each state which were autonomous states. Now same scenario is in the USA where there is one president (It doesn't matter that he is being to be called as president or caliph) and every state has a governor. The USA has a so big territory that if there is day on one side, then there is night on the other side same as it was in Islamic history. We have just divided powers by adopting dyarchy and bicameral system that more people could amalgamate money.

@nelblueblue It is wrong to say DNA test as unislamic, these are rigid clerics who say whatever they want to say by neglecting reality of Islam.

Yes, you are right that we should follow the teachings of Islam and that make scientific considerations. Whatever is now proved in science (Not hypothesis which are not proved like Darwin theory of evolution) Islam told about it 1400 years ago. As scientists are talking about the Big Bang theory and Allah almighty said about it in the Holly Quran with these words:
"Have not those who disbelieve known that heaven and earth were joined together as one united piece, then we parted the? And we have made from water every living thing, will they not then believe?" (Surah Ambya Ayah 30)

In another Ayah Allah almighty says about the orbits of the sun and the moon in these words:
"And he is who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon each in an orbit floating" (Surah Ambyah Ayah 33)
Science told us now that the sun is a star and moving in his orbit in its galaxy, but the Holly Quran told us 1400 years ago.

Islam is not against science, both are realities, we need to accept both, but system of government should be pure Islamic because Islam has the solution of every problem.

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مجھے ہے حکمِ اذاں

In my opinion state should have no religion...... Totalay secularism is the way forward... No one should enforce their beliefs on me. Is saudia a country worth living? Just see the pathatic condition of shia muslims living there is iran an ideal muslim state no sunnies are being prosecuted there...... State should be religion less