Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's Interview to TIME Magzine
 

Saturday, Dec. 16, 2006
People Who Mattered: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
An Interview with Iran's Agitator

For a man of such outsize ambition, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad tries hard to seem normal. He drives a 20-year-old Peugeot and spends a few nights a week at a modest house in a residential neighborhood of Tehran. When he visited New York City in September, his wife brought dates from Iran to save money on food. And then there is the Jacket� the bland beige windbreaker he wears even for affairs of state, projecting the image he prefers for himself as champion of the dispossessed, a global Everyman.

Little else is ordinary about Ahmadinejad, 50. In his 18 months as Iran's President, the former engineering professor turned Tehran mayor has become the most voluble, polarizing leader in the Middle East. It isn't simply his country's support of militant Shi�ite groups in Lebanon and Iraq, or Iran's suspected pursuit of a nuclear bomb. In 2006 Ahmadinejad also appealed to audiences beyond Iran who resent U.S. power and feel emboldened to challenge it. His denials of the Holocaust and his threat to destroy Israel cause shudders in the West but have made him an icon throughout the Muslim world.

Ahmadinejad's bombast has stiffened the Bush Administration's resistance to talking with Tehran. And discontent with him is growing at home. Last week a few dozen students shouted "Death to the dictator!" as Ahmadinejad delivered a speech. Two days later, he met TIME's Scott MacLeod at Ahmadinejad's private office in Tehran for a 75-minute interview, his second with TIME in three months. Excerpts:

TIME: Why did you write your recent letter to the American people?

Ahmadinejad: Did you read it? My letter had different aims and goals. Many American citizens in the messages and letters they sent requested that I bring up my points of view directly. Many of them said that the government of America doesn't let them receive my point of view in its entirety and without distortions. So I talked to them directly. The behavior of the American government has severely damaged the position of the United States. No country in the world looks upon America as a friend. When the U.S. is mentioned, people are reminded of war, aggression and bloodshed, and that's not a good thing. In other words, the American people are paying for something they don't believe in.

TIME: Was this a public relations exercise, or do you really want a dialogue with the U.S.?

Ahmadinejad: We separate the account of the American people and the American government. With the government of the U.S., the issue is different. I sent a letter to Mr. Bush. I really wanted him to revise his behavior. But apparently it didn't have any effect.

TIME: The Baker-Hamilton commission recommended the U.S. initiate a dialogue with Iran. If the Bush Administration reaches out to Iran, are you ready to talk to President Bush?

Ahmadinejad: We believe that the decision makers in America should change their outlook. They do not consider any value for the people of the region. The Iraqi people are also human beings. Today they have a constitution, a parliament and a government. They can run their own affairs by themselves. They have no need for a guardian. If the outlook of the American management is changed, then ways will be found for solving the problem.

TIME: So will you talk to the U.S. or not?

Ahmadinejad: We want to resolve the problem. We do not want to waste time. We do not want a political game. What we want is for the rights of the Iraqi people to be returned to them. If the government of the United States changes its behavior, the conditions will be changed. Then a dialogue could take place.

TIME: You've just held a conference questioning the Holocaust. Why not hold a peace conference instead? You could invite the Israelis and Palestinians to talk about peace instead of what happened 60 years ago.

Ahmadinejad: As a matter of fact, this conference was in line with peace. Because for the past 60 years, the Palestinian people have been suppressed, using the Holocaust as the pretext. If the issue of the Holocaust became clear, the issue would be solved.

TIME: How?

Ahmadinejad: When it is understood that the Holocaust does not have any relationship with the Palestinian people, we will have two proposals for the Western and European countries. The first solution is that in the same way that you created this regime in the past, you can remove it yourself. You know well that the Holocaust has nothing to do with the Palestinian people. That was just a pretext to create this regime. And it was not a good excuse. Just cease to support it. Don't use your people's money to assist this violent regime. This is the best solution. If they do not accept the first solution, then they should allow the nation of Palestine to make their decision about its own fate. Anyone who is a Palestinian citizen, whether Christian, Jewish or Muslim, should decide together in a very free referendum. There is no need for war. There is no need for threats or an atom bomb either.

TIME: Israel isn't going to accept any of this.

Ahmadinejad: If the American and British governments do not support and help them, and they stop using their power and influence, they will accept.

TIME: Without a war?

Ahmadinejad: Yes. Why not? Everyone knows that the Zionist regime is a tool in the hands of the United States and British governments.

TIME: Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert seemed to acknowledge this week that Israel has nuclear weapons. Does that affect Iran's determination to have nuclear weapons?

Ahmadinejad: The era for bombs and atoms and weapons has come to an end. People should be talked to with reason. Where are the ones who used nuclear bombs in Hiroshima? Their era is over. Now it's the time for dialogue, logic as well as law and justice.

TIME: If sanctions are imposed on Iran for continuing with its nuclear program, will you retaliate?

Ahmadinejad: Friendship with the Iranian people is better than confronting us. Experience has shown that we have the capability to defend ourselves and take advantage of any circumstance. The Iranian people are an extremely intelligent people. They know how to make the best opportunities from the harshest of threats. And make ill-wishers regret themselves.

TIME: So what will Iran do?

Ahmadinejad: Don't be in a hurry. We believe that the American government cannot do anything against us.