We play music, not Quran.

We pay Hadiyah, not price for Quran.

We have Ghilaf for it, not apron.

We read other material, but Tilawat Quran.

I advised you to not use conventional words in Quran's context that we used for other things. Had you learnt to differentiate, you wouldn't have asked the entire question.

@ mjkhan
There you go! That's what I basically mean, there are different situation and each situation has its own context and besides the intentions of the individual also matters. So we cannot look at all situations with one eye.

Perhaps, I should. In fact, I think this issue can have a lot of research but for that i'll have to find an aalim who would be willing to answer my questions rather than just calling me crazy and making me run away.

@ Arain007
Hmm...this point never occured to me and had I never initiated this topic it might have never even crossed my mind. This is why I like to discuss my ideas and thoughts no matter how much out of the context they might seem. I either learn new or become more firm in what i say. Either way it is good.

Aur beshak Quran perhnay say ziyada faida hasil hoga per jo sakoon rouh ko ek achi awaaz mein Quran ki talawat sun ker milta hai woh kuch alag he hai . Tabhi tou aksar auqat loog sirf Quran sun ker he itnay mesmerize ho jatay hain that they end up accepting Islam. It is truly magical.

@ Amigo
Basically, it is about sudhaaring old habits by using the same means in different way or like you have a habit that you are so addicted to and can't change it over night so you can change the context of your habit a lil bit and gradually the habit will take a new better form. Like for example, when I am on bed and there is no sign of sleep but I know that I must sleep so instead of putting music to make me sleep I put some Surahs, at times. This way I know that my soul is also in peace, because it is not getting something that it shouldn't, and so I can also rest in peace for a while . And believe me, it is sooooo soothing.

@ roijen
OK! What am I supposed to say then when I visit a website that has a "play" button and when I click on it, it "plays" the Surah I have choosen? Or when I have some Surahs stored in my laptop and I click on them and the media player "plays" it? Or when I have this application in my mobile that has Quran talawat in it and I click the "play" button to listen to it? I believe the way you took "play" is different than the way I intended "play". Isn't it?

@ Everyone
Besides, we have heard a lot about Quranic verses as ring tones etc etc. Does the same apply to Quranic applications in mobile? Like mjkhan said not taking mobile to washrooms or putting in jeans pocket and etc. etc.

I've another interesting question but i'll leave it for next time. Enough for now, I believe.

__________________
Regards,
P.R.

Then every body should also understand that the Quran is not meant for websites and electronic devices. It is meant for men's heart.

It was Abdullah ibne Umar Ra who arranged a grand feast for the reason that he learnt Surah Al Baqarah.

Can you tell how many years did he take to learn the Surah?

Heard an alim saying: Quran is not something that throws away jewels to us. Rather we have to find it ourselves through much effort.

You talked of unconscious mind. Well man's discoveries should not strengthen or weaken his faith. Man's knowledge is simply not complete in its kind and quality, and it will never be. It is also said by experts that listening is a lower order skill than reading.

An year ago I was set to discover how is the Holy Book is a message for the mankind, or to put it the 'modus operandi'. Got following answers from different people. (not to mention charms, or drinking water in which the Quranic words are washed)

-By reading daily,
-By understanding it message,
-By acting upon its teachings,
-Romans used to believe that man is made from earth, air, fire and water. But Islam said, behold there's another components the 'soul', the eternal entity.

And it is through soul that Quran is revealed onto us.

So it comes to us that Quran is about spirituality, Islamic Spirituality! not any other. And we get it through Quran and Sunnah. What is the best way to reach to Allah other than through His own revealed words and the demonstration of the Prophet S.A.W. Think about it and don't make haste. To get Hidayah is a very delicate responsibility binding upon Muslims. Very often we are strayed or retired.

Those who recognize the unconscious mind, do they recognize soul? Psychology, spirituality (claimed even by people who do not affiliate themselves with any religion), and Islamic Spirituality are different things. You will not do benefit to yourself by admixing them.

It is also a fact that our Holy Prophet preferred to listen the Holy Book through his companions than reciting it to himself. The companions of the prophet tell that whenever the Holy Book was recited we used to sit like as if some bird is sitting on our heads and it will fly if we moved. You won't get much by listening to the recitation of Quran in the background. We should not invent our own ways and leave the example of the Prophet S.A.W. when it is already present.

Musalman agar Quran ko gadgets ki nazar na kare to acha hai.

However, I've asked it to an Alim, that a part of Quran we happen to learn through television, is it ok? He replied, it is ok since the end result (learning) is achieved.

PS: Hazrat Abdullah ibn Umar RA took twelve years to learn Sura Al Baqarah.

I would really appreciate if you could elucidate this point for my better understanding. How are psychology, spirituality, and Islamic Spirituality different from one another? Instead of assuming what I could think, I would really like to have some solid details. Its always said that mind, body, and soul are related. Psychology is about mind and spirituality is about soul, then how can they not be related?

Again, i'm not here claiming that what I think is absolutely right. Because I have these thoughts in my mind and because I wonder about them, I believe it is better to discuss and know the truth about what I think rather than just believing what I think just because I think. I'm not here to indulge in a discussion to prove myself right, or the others wrong. I'm here to have a fruitful and a critical discussion. And by discussion I do mean "discussion". Something that we all can benefit from.

I agree. But mein ne jo bhi kaha hai ab tak usko ek particular scenario ki base per kaha hai. Aaj kal ki nujawan nasal agar ipods per he talawat sun lay tou kiya yeh behtar nahi banisbat es kay kay woh bilqul he na sunnay?

Then what about the end results that could be achieved or are achieved through what I have said in my all previous posts?

__________________
Regards,
P.R.

As you have said k log Quran sun kr itnay mesmerize ho jatay hain that they end up accepting Islam. Ye baat non-Muslims k liay tu theek hy. Wo Quran ki tilawat sun kr Islam ki taraf attract hotay hein. But for Muslims it is not a good thing. Allah ny Quran is liay tu nhi utara k hm kisi achay Qari ki awaz main usy sunain aur sakoon mehsos krein. Be-shak Quran sun kr sakoon ka ehsaas hota hy but wo purpose tu pura nhi hota jo Quran ki tilawat krnay sy ho ga.

Ap ny kuch days pehlay ("AUR" aur Insaan) jo topic discuss kya tha. Us ka maqsad yehi tha na k Insaan sirf dunya main apnay sakoon aur araam k liay koshish kyn krta hy? Wo apnay akhrat k faiday aur wahan py sakoon hasil krnay k liay mehnat kyn nhi krta hy.

Now tell k Quran sun kr hm dunya main zehni sakoon hasil krtay hein. kya ye cheez hmain Akhrat main kuch faida dy gi? Agr hm daily Quran parhnay ki adat dalain tu is sy hmain dunya main aur akhrat main bhi faida ho ga. Phir hmain jitna time milta hy us sy hmain ziada faida uthana chahiay.

Aur Allah ny bhi hukam dya hy k Quran ki tilawat kya kro. Tu hm kyn na apnay Allah ki baat manain.

May be you are doing right. lekin meray khayal main agr hm sotay waqt jitna Quran hmain yaad hy, wo parh lein aur Darood Sharif parhtay parhtay so jain, tu ye ziada saheh ho ga.

Thats why Muslims are in trouble today. We are not following Islamic teachings truly. Agr hmari nujawan nasal isi trah Quran ki tilawat sunay. tu kya wo Islam ki teachings ko understand kr skain gy. Wo tu sirf yehi kahain gy k Quran ki tilawat sun kr sakoon mila gya hy. Ab ap hi batain k kya wo Quran k message ko samajhain gy? Christians aur Jews ny bhi yehi galtyaan ki hein. k religion ko sirf particular log follow krtay hein. baqi young generation k nazdeeq religion ka koi maqsad hi nhi hy. wo religion ki zarurat tb mehsoos krtay hein jb koi mushkil ati hy.

is liay hmain Islam aur Quran ko mazaq nhi bnana chahiay hy. Allah hm sy ye nhi chahta k hm din main aik dafa ya raat ko sotay waqt quran ki tilawat CD ya ipod pr sunain aur samjahain k hm ny Quran ka haq adda kr dya hy. Quran ka haq tu tb hi adda ho ga jb hm isay rozana parhnay ki adat dalain gy aur is ki baatoon pr ammal bhi krain gy.

__________________
Kon Kehta hy k Main Gum-naam ho jaon ga
Main tu aik Baab hn Tareekh mein Likha jaon ga

Psychology, as it is a science, does not recognise the existence of a God and cant help one.
Spirituality, I explained above.
Islamic Spirituality is achieved after practicing. Namaz, Fastinf, Zakat and Hajj. There is a practical side to it.

You are wrong. There are two opposite concepts monism and dualism. But mind is not soul. Mind is think, feel, do. Soul is what muslims believe has always existed and continued to exist and took the oath of 'alast bi rabbi kum'.

You need to search stargate project in parasychology, that was abandoned.

Agreed because it is the duty of a muslim to not to hold truth to himself but tell others too. And you have adopted a good policy of appending 'I think'. Happy about it.

Then if criticism is involved we cannot overlook past examples if they are available. Main khud sawal karne wala hun, i cant discourage others. But it helps me when they question.

Hidayah phir bhi ipods se nahi mile gi jab bhi mile. It will be through the will of Allah and through Islamic Spirituality.

Ye tau poochna paray ga.

Was a bit busy last few days so couldn't visit forum, finally back to discussion...

@Arain007

Aap nay jo kaha, bilqul daroost kaha. Per dubara wohi baat kahon gi kay mein ek particular scenario per baat ker rahi hoon aur uski he roshni mein aap ki baaton ka reply karoon gi.

Agreed! Per ek aisa shaks jis nay saari zindagi he non-permitted cheezon mein guzar di. Jo sirf ek naam ka he musalmaan bun ker reh gaya. Jis ko deen ka bilqul bhi ilm nahi, agar woh Quran sunna as a first step lay tou yeh behtar tou hai na. Thora elaborate kerti hoon esko:

Pehli baat tou yeh kay mera maan na hai kay Allah ki taraf har koi ek mukhtalif raastay say ata hai. Jo cheez aap ko attract karay gi woh shayad mujhey na karay and the vice versa. Jo cheez aap ko Islam aur Allah kay qareeb laye gi shayad mujhey na laye and the vice versa. Kesi say sunni hoi koi baat, kahin perhi hoi koi baat, kesi ki zindagi ka koi hadsa, apni zindagi ka koi hadsa, youtube per koi video, blogs per koi article, etc etc. En mein say koi bhi cheez aap kay liye hadayat ka zarya bun sakhti hai aur koi bhi meray liye.

Doosari baat yeh kay jab dil mutawaja ho raha hai Islam aur Allah ki taraf, tou mera yeh bhi maan na hai kay initial stages thori kachi hoti hain. Yaani kay shaitaan aap ko bharka sakhta hai araam say chu kay abhi aap nay (aap as in general not you) puri terhan abhi khud ko submit nahi kiya Islam aur Allah ko, imaan abhi utna strong nahi howa. Aap ko kesi cheez nay attract kiya aur aap Islam ko discover/re-discover ker rahay hain, yaan phir youn keh lein kay aap sachai ki talaash mein hain, yaan phir aap apni adatein badalna cha rahay hain kyun ke aap haqeeqat say waqif hain. Es stage per agar kesi nay Quran lagaya hai sotay howay, perhtay howay, fariq waqt mein laga liya, yaan kesi bhi aur situation mein, mera maan na hai kay es kay dou faiday hain. Pehlay yeh kay shaitaan en cheezon say bhagta hai, usko pasand nahi. Tou aap at least ek safe environment mein hain. Dosara faida yeh hai kay possible hai kay farishtay us jagha mein mujood hoon. Jo kay buhat faiday ki baat hai. Jaisay kay kehtay hain na kay jab ek jagha per loog jama hain aur woh Islam ki baatein ker rahay hain tou faristay unko ghair laytay hain taki shaitan say woh bach sakein. I believe intial stage kay jab aap apne aap say bhi lar rahay hotay hain, apnay nafs say, aur shaitan say, es time per agar koi kesi bhi terhan bach sakhta hai tou uske liye faida hai.

Teesari baat, phir kiya pata kay jab aap khud ko totally submit ker chukay hain Islam aur Allah ko aur sach jaan chukay hain yaan badal chukay hain, tou aap baaki steps follow karein jaisay aap nay kaha Quran perhna. Phir aap Quran kay saray haqooq puray karein usko perhna, samajhna, amal kerna, aur phir philana. Apni he example doun gi, mein dobara us rastay per ana chahti hoon jo mein zindagi mein ek mertaba experience ker chuki hoon, woh rasta kay jahan mujhey har waqt ka ek ajeeb sakoon rehta tha, tension hoti thi tou es baat ki kay falan falan itni important/critical situation hai aur mein tensed kyun nahi? Aur phir mein ne kuch initial steps liye jo mein pehlay bata chuki hoon, phir meray zehn mein buhat cheezein ayein, sawal aye jo mein ne yahan per kahein hain, aur phir aap logoon ki batoon say mazeed cheezein reinforce hoi hain like quran perhna ziyada afzal hai tou maybe i should start that now aur ek mertaba kay bajaye till i fall asleep mein darood shareef yaan surahs perhti jaon. Per yeh saab un initial steps kay he result hain na.

Yeh bhi maana kay dosaray ko rokna aur sach batana farz hai, per bajaye yeh kehnay kay kay "you're being disrespectful to Quran tumhein gunnah ho ga" or blah blah hum agar yehi baat es andaaz mein keh dein kay "agar tum dehaan day ker souno gay tou aur sakoon paao gay" something of this sort. Jis say agla chiray nai aur jo pehlay step liya hai ushi say wapis mur jaye. I mean logoon ko thori space tou daini chahiye na and let them discover things and come with total submission aur jaisay mein nay upar kaha kay har koi mukhtalif raastay say aata hai Allah ki taraf.

Bilqul manein per pehlay Allah ki taraf aa tou jaein.

Aur us thread mein I believe mein ne unconditional love aur submission ki baat ki thi, akhrat kay faiday tou results hongay us submission kay.



@ roijen

I'm not talking about psychology as a subject but psychology of individuals, the way an individual thinks, interprets, acts, reacts, etc. etc. basically one's behavior. Now, assuming that i'm the kind of person who is mostly rude to people, too superstitious, there is nothing like humbleness in me, nothing like critical thinking aur har cheez ko ulta laynay ki addat hai etc etc how will I be spiritual? Jab Allah kay bandoon kay saath he rawaya theek nai hai, jab demaagh he mera teray kisam ka hai tou spirituality kahan say hogi?

Jaisay mein nay upar kaha "initial steps" and we never know kay kis terhan mil jaye, ipod per sunnay janay waala koi islamic lecture bhi zariya bun sakhta hai us brain "click" ka jo mazeed Allah ki taraf laye ga.

__________________
Regards,
P.R.

I am agreed with you on this thing. But aik dafa attract honay k baad hmain ye adat nhi bnani chahiay. bl-kay next steps bhi lenay chahiay hein. Allah jb kisi k liay Hadayat ka darwaza kholta hy tu phir Insaan ko bhi us opportunity sy faida uthana chahiay hy. Ap ny dekha ho ga k jb Non-Muslims Islam ki taraf kisi b waja sy attract hotay hein, phir wo Islam k baray ma research krnay lg jatay hein. aur last ma usy accept kr letay hein.

Ap ki ye baat b bilkul saheh hy k hr Insaan ko koi specific source hi attract hota hy. Ap ny Hazrat Bishr Hafi (R.A.) ka waqia suna ho ga. Wo aik dunya daar shakhs thay lekin aik dafa sirf aik paper (jis pr Bismillah likha hua tha) ki tazeem ki waja sy Walli Allah bn gy. Read here Hazrat Bishr Hafi (R.A.). Allah ny jisay seedha rasta dikhana ho us ka sabab paida ho hi jata hy.

Aj kal hm tu Quran ko sirf dunya hasil krnay ka zarria samjhtay hein. Kuch years pehlay ma ny suna tha k Surrah Rahman ki tilawat ko Qari Abdul Basit ki awaz ma sun-nay ka bohat faida hota hy. Kuch log wo Surah sun kr bemari ka illaj kr rhy hein. Jb log is waja sy Quran sunain gy tu phir ap hi socho k kya ye saheh hy?

Ma ny aksar logon ko dekha hy k subah universities/offices ko jatay hoay headphone lagya hota hy. Pocho tu pata chalta hy k Tilawat sun rhy hein. Lekin rah chaltay nazar k gunah sy nhi bachtay. Aur jo females hein un ma sy bohat km ki dressing Islamic hoti hy. Kuch shops pr subah Tilawat lga di jati hy k is sy barkat ho gi. Lekin sara din wo shopkeeper jhoot bolnay aur milawat sy phir bhi baaz nhi ata.

Agr log is trah ki harkatain krein gy, tu unhay Quran ki tilawat sun-nay ka kya faida? Wo tu sirf apnay gunahoon ma hi izafa kr rhy hein.


Agreed with you. But hmaray aj kal k Aalim hazrat Islam ko true sense main paish hi nhi kr rhy hein. Wo apni speeches main sirf Jannat aur Dozakh ka hi btaty hein. Wo Haqooq Allah ki baat tu baray zor-o-shor sy krtay hein. Lekin Haqooq-ul-Ibaad ko importance nhi detay. Log b yehi samjhtay hein k bs 5 times namaz parh li aur bs ab hm Jannat ma jain gy. Baqi wo jo gunah krtay rehtay hein un ki unhain fiqar hi nhi hoti.

Ab isi trah k kisi Aalim ny ye baat phela di hy k Quran sun lya karo is sy faida ho ga. But hmaray log jis trah sy isay follow kr rhy hein wo oper ma ny btaya hy.

Mera point hy k kya hm log itna nhi kr sktay, k jo time hm Quran sun-ny ma guzartay hein. us ki bajaey hm sirf Quran ka aik page parh lein. Mobile py Quran sun-nay ka itna faida nhi ho ga jitna us aik page parhnay ka ho ga. Wo thora sa Quran parh kr hmray andar ziada detail ma jan-ny ki khawahish paida ho gi. jb k Quran sun kr hm sirf Subhan Allah hi kahain gy aur bs phir apnay kam py lag jain gy. Hmain zarra b samjah nhi ay gi k hm ny jo sunna hy us ka matlab kya tha. Agr hmain Arabi ki samjh hoti tu phir beshak Quran suntay. Lekin hm Arabi nhi hain tu phir Quran sun kr kya samjh ay gi. Is liay meray khayal main hmain Quran ko parhnay ki koshish krni chahiay hy. Start main hm 1 page daily parhtay hein tu ahista ahista shouq brhay ga tu hm ziada prhnay lg jain gy.

__________________
Kon Kehta hy k Main Gum-naam ho jaon ga
Main tu aik Baab hn Tareekh mein Likha jaon ga