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  #11  
Old Monday, August 14, 2006
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No... Not love vs philosophy...

Actually...... Philosophy of Love..
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  #12  
Old Monday, August 14, 2006
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Exclamation Love v/s Philospohers

@ Yasir_Nasim

Hey i can only suggest u that "its never late to be late."

@ Muskan Ghuman

I think we should say "Love v/s Philosphers."

@ Khuram

Well from where u r tracing this democracy stuff here on gup shup section? Let us not talk about those tense topics and colossal probs that are always hurdles on the way of propsperity......kick them away from this forum.

Let me elucidate:

I did not say that the guy is poking his nose into her beloved affairs then y u said that he may tease her and himself too. he is not teasing himself too because he is satisfied in this sort of life.

U are saying that this true lover is not responisble towards his own life. I admit that he did not get amrry anybody else because he cannot fight with his heart but he is spending a high class prosperous life so i should say that he is a responisble guy. he did not marry that gal coz he had to show rsponisbily and loylty towards his family. i believ he is pretty responsible.

how to convince about sacrifices? it iss crystal clear that he sacrified his lov and beloved. is it easy to spend whole life just watching that his beloved is happy with somone else? but he says, "i had to marry her in every way, i did wrong with her, now its my happiness that she is happy." he is away from her.

let me tell u that now this gal says that time has shown me that how much precious lov is. she is proud to be her lover.

But i repeat that i agree love declines with time bcoz we have also to think over the remaing 99% too, it is such a big amount.

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  #13  
Old Monday, August 14, 2006
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Ok.. if time has shown all this than what I can say anything..

And you have been non-democratic in this sense that you are considering 1% people on the right.

This is what I also say.... on other serious matters...
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  #14  
Old Monday, August 14, 2006
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Default order, order, order..............!

Hmm... the discussion has taken good turn from love to democracy and then back to love...

I agree to the point that 'time' verifies the preciousness of love.



@Khuram

Your Philosophy of love is a little ambiguous for me. As i'd a good debate with you on the issue in another thread, now answer me here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khuram
Although in my own opinion, when it comes to love, one should prefer emotions to practical aspects of situation. But emotions should not be negative or even if positive, then they must not have negative implications in any sense.

When I say when it comes to love one should prefer emotions to practical aspects, here I am referring to only selfish type practical aspects.
Philosopher saab, when one is going to prefer emotions over practical aspects, how can he/ she be able to distinguish between the negative and positive emotions. The differentiation of negative and positive emotions is possible only when a person is thinking practically (hosh). So when you demand that a person should prefer emotions (josh), he / she won’t be able to justify the negative and positive aspects.
Quote:
In all other cases, one must take decision as per the situation.

Quote:
In such cases also, love can decline with time. But remember that there is really only this much room for the survival of love in this practical world. Love has value because it is rare.
Agree, but in my opinion, the decline of love is not because of time , it’s because of one’s ‘intentions’.

Quote:
Yes true love demands sacrifices but I cannot see any valid sacrifice in this case. Valid sacrifice would be that when one rejects a better option in favour one's lover. This is real sacrifice
This is no sacrifice that if one sees that now he cannot marry his lover, then he decides to not marry for his life. This would be an invalid sacrifice. .
Can you please give some example of any ‘valid sacrifice’?


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  #15  
Old Monday, August 14, 2006
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Default V nice qurat

Well the discussion z very philosophical dears so i agreed wd impossible that
LOVE v/s PHILOSOPHERS.
@Qurat
i agree wd u n ur points r very logical.
interesting discussion.
REGARDS
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  #16  
Old Monday, August 14, 2006
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Cool Good Shot

@ Khuram

Dont know y u keep on sticking this democracy tag on me? anyways as i said earlier, i really did not analyze that how much Pakistanis are willing for democracy, but i am sure a number of them are n dire need of good governance. that is why we wana put Pakistan on the road of democracy to know the will of general public. will u agree?

it depends on me where my mind agrees. i am considering the cases and then comparing them to think over the issue. i am agreeing for democracy when a lot many people want it. on the other hand, i am going to say that love does not decline with time because my mind says so even i agree that it is the case with 1% people.

Quratulain discussed the issue in a better way. what shud i add to it?

@ Qurat

i was waiting for u too because u r also a philospher. we were missing u. u justified the points in an awesome way. i think Khuram would be very able to exemplify sacrifice. let us wait.

@ hira iftikhar rana

thnx 4 admiring the thread and discussion. it would be more lovely if u could add something to it and be a part of this discussion.

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  #17  
Old Monday, August 14, 2006
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@ Qurratulain

Quote:
Philosopher saab, when one is going to prefer emotions over practical aspects, how can he/ she be able to distinguish between the negative and positive emotions. The differentiation of negative and positive emotions is possible only when a person is thinking practically (hosh). So when you demand that a person should prefer emotions (josh), he / she won’t be able to justify the negative and positive aspects.
I am not equating 'emotins' with 'be-hoshi'. If a boy loves a girl and the boy also has the option of marrying some other more rich and more beutiful girl ... then 'practical' approach would be to opt for that more rich and more beutiful girl. The emotional approach here would be to remain loyal to the beloved. If the boy really loves then he should prefer emotions to practical aspects and so should remain loyal to beloved.

I am not talking of such be-hoshi type emotions as one should tear up his clothes and go to deserts and jungles in order to prove the intensity of his love. One shall prove only one's madness in this way. And if his beloved is really going to be impressed by his lover in this way ... Then I can say nothing for this case.

Both should be married in mental hospital --- of course without the consent of their respective families.

But at the same time .... I do accept that such cases are really among the rare beuties of otherwise very miserable world. We should expect few percentage of such cases because otherwise social life would become just mechanical.

In general, the emotions, about which I had talked were not any be-hoshi type emotions... those emotions were just 'selfless' type emotions which were directed towards 'loyelty' for beloved .... EVEN AT THE COST OF ANY MATERIAL BENEFITS.


Quote:
Agree, but in my opinion, the decline of love is not because of time , it’s because of one’s ‘intentions’.
Intentions also can be changed over time.


Quote:
Can you please give some example of any ‘valid sacrifice’?
I had shown in my previous post that in case a person finds it impossible to marry his beloved and so decides to remain unmarried for the rest of his life... in this case there is no real sacrifice. This is just a form of self punishment ... and in some cases can become emotional blackmailing. Some emotional unsuccessful lovers even go for the option of suicide. What is any sacrifice in suicide decision? It is just self punishment and emotional blackmailing. nothing else.

Sacrifice only means surrender of a better available options in favour of beloved... When one rejects extra material gains and remains loyel to one's beloved, only in this case one really sacrifices something. This is same situation as giving superiority to selfless emotions over materialistic practical advantages. Even this type of sacrifice would become invalid if lover makes show of such 'sacrifices' before beloved....

So real sacrifices may remain completely unknown to beloved...

The sacrifice by the beloved would be that he/she should acknowledge those sacrifices which were never told to him/her ... I mean should understand at his/her own. Even if does not understand ... act in such manner as if he/she is acknowledging the (may be unknown) sacrifices of lover.

This would be the sacrifice by the beloved...
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  #18  
Old Monday, August 14, 2006
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@Impossible

So in the politics ... you are democratic...

I admire your passions ... you should fight elections this time ... I shall support you with all the famous slogans ... "Awe ee Awe"


In the emotional world ... you are non-democratic...

Yes our world is beautiful because of the existence of those 1% people ....

But any increase in this percentage would reduce the value of love.

99% people are robots ... machines .. selfish... etc.. they do not represent the emotional world at all.
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  #19  
Old Monday, August 14, 2006
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Salam to all,

Love is an emotion & in emotions no democracy or voting or philosphy should be there...

Aqal ko tanqeed sai fursat nhi
Eishq pai aamal kii buniaad rakh

Anyhow love is like ghosts, which everybody talks about & few have seen...99% people reffered in impossible & Khurram's posts are those who have not experienced love at all & just assume that they are in it...so called love of such people declines with time sometime because of circumstances & somtime becoz of intensions...but the emotion they were in can not be called love at all. Love doesnot decline with time, even in severe circumstances it remains steadfast. So not to discriminate 99% people in love or 1% in love...becoz Love in 100% cases does not decline. Just condition is if there it is....

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  #20  
Old Tuesday, August 15, 2006
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Exclamation How to sacrifice?

@ Khuram

i agree with what ever u said. but i am not agreeing with ur explanation of sacrifice. well what left with a person if he is giving up him beloved for the sake of responsibilty and loylty towards his family. i think he is giving sacrifices in each and every moment of his life. this is a point which cant be comprehended but can be felt.

im not gonna take part in elections. app jaisay barey barey logon k hotey huay hum chotay motay logon ko kon poochay ga? i m ok like this. you are right "our world is beautiful because of the existence of those 1% people who loves truely and unconditionally"

@ Muskan Ghuman

Wsalam.....log kehtay hain mohabbat main akal kaam kerna chor deti hai.....BTW i liked ur concluding style.

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