serious dilemma....
 

Today Pakistan is passing through a serious dilemma but as a Pakistani i am still very much hopeful that a day will come__ as the calendar of 1947 is repeating itself, so lets hope we have the same enthusiasm and passion for our country....:rrolleyes
The most important thing that we Pakistanis need in my point of view is self-actualization....
Let yourself be drawn by the stronger pull of that which you truly love.”
― Rumi
We have forgotten that who we were, who we are and have no sense who will be..One thing must be clear here that the whole world recognize us as Pakistanis and by adopting European culture we will not be called as European we will remain Pakistanis....Now coming towards point that almost everyone knows the meaning of Pakistan as 'The Land of pure people' but sorry to say only a few feels the meaning. So what else we can conquer if we still haven't conquer the meaning of our country now a time has come that all of the Pakistanis including me should start living for our country .Time has come that we should realize what our moral and national characters are and what it should be....my words are not only words i mean it...
"WE CAN NOT EXCEPT CHANGE WITHOUT CHANGING OURSELVES"
:vic:vic

[QUOTE=Nushrah Kabir;694284]Today Pakistan is passing through a serious dilemma but as a Pakistani i am still very much hopeful that a day will come__ as the calendar of 1947 is repeating itself, so lets hope we have the same enthusiasm and passion for our country....:rrolleyes
The most important thing that we Pakistanis need in my point of view is self-actualization....
Let yourself be drawn by the stronger pull of that which you truly love.”
― Rumi
We have forgotten that who we were, who we are and have no sense who will be..One thing must be clear here that the whole world recognize us as Pakistanis and by adopting European culture we will not be called as European we will remain Pakistanis....Now coming towards point that almost everyone knows the meaning of Pakistan as 'The Land of pure people' but sorry to say only a few feels the meaning. So what else we can conquer if we still haven't conquer the meaning of our country now a time has come that all of the Pakistanis including me should start living for our country .Time has come that we should realize what our moral and national characters are and what it should be....my words are not only words i mean it...
"WE CAN NOT EXCEPT CHANGE WITHOUT CHANGING OURSELVES"
:vic:vic[/QUOTE]

Yes, but I could not comprehend one thing btw, why we always blame to the western culture for all our present day miseries and troubles. ?? even Sir Syed Ahmad Khan to Allama Iqbal, every Muslim leader talked about this western culture. This debate is useless. We should accept that in the modern era, we have to come across with various culture and civilizations. The only thing we should do to work for the welfare of the country. we need to be an enlightened Muslim, not those who consider others as" Kafirs", if they dressed themselves in jeans, and listen English songs.:waiting Time has come to change our mindsets.

Sorry Mam but i will still remain in my point of view...because i believe that there will be no shops unless buyers would be there.....

[QUOTE=Nushrah Kabir;694287]Sorry Mam but i will still remain in my point of view...because i believe that there will be no shops unless buyers would be there.....[/QUOTE]

I am also stick to my point of view. Western culture is not only responsible for all our misfortunes. our conservative approach is making the things worse.:king
we have closed our eyes from the realities of life, blaming others for our troubles is a good idea but this approach does not always work.

[QUOTE=Maha Khan;694288]I am also stick to my point of view. Western culture is not only responsible for all our misfortunes. our conservative approach is making the things worse.:king
we have closed our eyes from the realities of life, blaming others for our troubles is a good idea but this approach does not always work.[/QUOTE]
I am not trying to hide ourselves in other nutshell.....I have said that we are dead people moving towards ally street and in this time only and only self actualization can save us in my point of view ...a lot to be amend..long debate

[QUOTE=Nushrah Kabir;694292]I am not trying to hide ourselves in other nutshell.....I have said that we are dead people moving towards ally street and in this time only and only self actualization can save us in my point of view ...a lot to be amend..long debate[/QUOTE]

[B]What is self actualization according to you?
[/B]

[QUOTE=Invincible;694368][B]What is self actualization according to you?
[/B][/QUOTE]
I believe in Allama Iqbal concept of self actualization...means time has come where we have to realize that we are muslims and the country in which we are living has come into being on the ideology of islam...we need to feel the name of our country...

@nushrah kabir
 

whats new? wohi purani afsanwi baten....be practical and do something on your level,baton se kch ni hota

no no absolutely not a "afsanwi bat"....i have said that these are not just words i mean it...the problem is that in search of new we have totally forgotten our history....not empty words playing my role....

[QUOTE=Nushrah Kabir;694374]I believe in Allama Iqbal concept of self actualization...means time has come where we have to realize that we are muslims and the country in which we are living has come into being on the ideology of islam...we need to feel the name of our country...[/QUOTE]

What is ideology of Islam??...Are we not living in a Muslim country?? is not our constitution according to Islam??...we realized that immediately after independence, the core problem lies in the fact that we have become just" Muslims", not" Momin"...we need to opt positive and enlighten approach of life. we should do some thing practical. Allam Iqbal presented his concept of "self-actualization", many years ago , it means, that time Muslims were also living in the same conditions in which they are living right now.

[QUOTE=Nushrah Kabir;694374]I believe in Allama Iqbal concept of self actualization...means time has come where we have to realize that we are muslims and the country in which we are living has come into being on the ideology of islam...we need to feel the name of our country...[/QUOTE]

[B]Islam teaches Tolerance, Equity & Moderation. Being the religion of reason and conscience, it enjoins to explore the universe & acquire knowledge.


[COLOR="Indigo"]It has nothing to do with attires.
[/COLOR][/B]

[QUOTE=Maha Khan;694285]Yes, but I could not comprehend one thing btw, why we always blame to the western culture for all our present day miseries and troubles. ?? even Sir Syed Ahmad Khan to Allama Iqbal, every Muslim leader talked about this western culture. This debate is useless. We should accept that in the modern era, we have to come across with various culture and civilizations. The only thing we should do to work for the welfare of the country. we need to be an enlightened Muslim, not those who consider others as" Kafirs", if they dressed themselves in jeans, and listen English songs.:waiting Time has come to change our mindsets.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="blue"][B]Yes, we should not criticize the Western culture, because calling the garbage icky won't render it less stinky, what we should do is stay away from that. Islam is a natural religion and it does not stop us from living in this very world, with all its diversities of cultures and religions, after all Prophet (PBUH) and his companions had lived in this very world, we should practice the shariah and that's it. There is nothing like enlightened Muslim, there is only one thing called Muslim. [/B][/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Maha Khan;694288]I am also stick to my point of view. Western culture is not only responsible for all our misfortunes. our conservative approach is making the things worse.:king
we have closed our eyes from the realities of life, blaming others for our troubles is a good idea but this approach does not always work.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="blue"][B]I think you stick to your point, not that you ARE stick to your point dear. :D
Yes, I acquiesce, we must bear the burden of our faults, but would you enlighten me what exactly is our conservative approach which according to you is the root of agony?[/B][/COLOR]
[QUOTE=Maha Khan;694391]What is ideology of Islam??...Are we not living in a Muslim country?? is not our constitution according to Islam??...we realized that immediately after independence, the core problem lies in the fact that we have become just" Muslims", not" Momin"...we need to opt positive and enlighten approach of life. we should do some thing practical. Allam Iqbal presented his concept of "self-actualization", many years ago , it means, that time Muslims were also living in the same conditions in which they are living right now.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="blue"][B]Here I agree to you wholeheartedly dear, we are not practicing Muslims aka Momin. Allah has made no promise with a Muslim, all promises of help and blessings are with Momineen. We must practically follow the Islam, rather paying lip service to Islam.[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]I must urge the so called liberals to practice moderation, they preach the moderation but unfortunately become extremist in propagating their views. If they can't follow the Islam, they must not repudiate it. [/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"][B]Regards,[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]I must urge the so called liberals to practice moderation, they preach the moderation but unfortunately become extremist in propagating their views. If they can't follow the Islam, they must not repudiate it. [/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"][B]Regards,[/B][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Islam must not repudiate either by the liberals or by the conservatives. What we need is to understand the true spirit of Islam.
We cannot impose Fatwa on others by saying that they are not following Islam , and therefore, they are "so-called liberals.:waiting

[QUOTE=Maha Khan;694458]
Islam must not repudiate either by the liberals or by the conservatives. What we need is to understand the true spirit of Islam.
We cannot impose Fatwa on others by saying that they are not following Islam , and therefore, they are "so-called liberals.:waiting[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][B]You did not answer any of my above point. Yes, we are in dire need of first understanding and then practicing the true Islam. No one is imposing any fatwa dear, and I think being liberal and not following Islam is in itself a tautology, no one need to issue a fatwa in this regard.

Regard,[/B][/COLOR]

westen culture has no wingsr
 

i read all the points of my seniors and my mind is developed too, so thanks to all my extraordinary talented seniors.
i would like to contribute that WESTERN CULTURE is not responsible for anything. because we the people are responsible for importing that culture and adopting that. western culture is for west and let the west play with that.
when we commit anything wrong, automatically we state that its all because of western culture and nobody dares to accept the reality that not the western culture but we the people are responsible for each and everything. wearing jeans, dressing ourselves unique and dressing our hair straight doesnt not mean that we are Jews, Christians or anything else. everything depends on the mental level but our problem is that, we are making our minds much more narrow day by day. if a glass is put on the table half filled with water, everyone comments that the glass if half empty and nobody state that the glass is half filled. same is the case.
[B][COLOR="darkRed"]its the time to change our thinking modes and to develop our mind potential[/COLOR][/B]s. Naurash stated about the shops and buyers so i will further add that "[COLOR="DarkRed"]IF THERE WILL BE NO IMPORTERS OF WEST CULTURE, THERE WILL BE NO DISCUSSIONS LIKE THESE[/COLOR]".
We need to opt OPTIMISM now because other nations have kissed the sky and we are still busy in criticizing West Culture.

Iqbal's Self-Actualization
 

Respected Member, You've been talking about Iqbal's self-actualization and his concept of a muslim state but have you read Iqbal's concept of a muslim legislature? His point of view about the dissolution of Turkish Khilafat? Arabian imperialism? And so forth. You made another point about our past, I do agree with you because "Who ignore history are condemned to repeat it" (Munir Akram) but it is also a reality that as we muslims are lagging behind the West in almost each and every sphere of life so we try to take shelter under our glorious past? from the present humiliation. Please read Iqbal's Shiqwa and Jawab i Shiqwa. Western wardrobe is not a problem and should not be so far as it is up to the standard of Islam in veiling one's body. Regards

[QUOTE=Bilal Hassan;694440][COLOR="blue"][B]Yes, we should not criticize the Western culture, because calling the garbage icky won't render it less stinky, what we should do is stay away from that. [/QUOTE]

[B][B][B]Can you give any persuasive point that why Muslims are being ruled by those people who stink?[/B][/B][/B]

If it hadn't been for that 'stinky' culture, we'd still be living in the medieval ages.

[QUOTE=Bilal Hassan;694534][COLOR="Blue"][B]And that's a settled fact that poetry's language is confined to poetry, to maintain the rhyme, poets go to great length and don't follow any rule. It still remains a mistake buddy. All references you would quote would be from poetry, give me a reference from formal English. Hidden or explicit, its you who is frustrated.

Over and out. [/B][/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]

"who even postpone the question of freedom to the question of free trade, and quietly read the prices-current along with the latest advices from Mexico, after dinner, and it may be, fall asleep over them both." -Henry David Thoreau

Here you go. Formal English.

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]@Buddha[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"][B]Brother, I apologize from you if I hurt your feelings. Being a Muslim, you are respectable for me, I mustn't have indulged in such a tirade, I realize that I must have been patient, I apologize dear. I forgive you too, and I expect you would pardon me too.[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]@Invincible[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR="blue"][B]Dear, it was not alluded to any person or a system, it was an analogy just. [/B][/COLOR]

i think i should make a apology here for touching such a sensitive topic.....
i just wanted to express my views....
Turning and turning in a winding gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer
Things fall apart the center cannot hold
Mere anarchy is lost upon the world

Adopting a different way of life doesn't make you a westerner. If someone doesn't want to be traditional or conservative or wants to dress differently that doesn't mean that they are trying to adopt something they'll never be good at and they'll still be pakistani at the end of the day. DUH. and it certainly doesn't makes their culture repugnant. If thats a yes then why do we get offended when some foreigner humiliates our culture or religion and calls us stupid, goat herders? So whats the difference between those people and us if we call their culture shitty.

Its not anyones fault they were born in Pakistani culture and if they want to identify with some other way of life then so be it. Everyone has a right to go for their own choice of culture or religion.

In the end you are what you choose to be not what you were meant to be.

[QUOTE=Rida Malik;696104]Adopting a different way of life doesn't make you a westerner. If someone doesn't want to be traditional or conservative or wants to dress differently that doesn't mean that they are trying to adopt something they'll never be good at and they'll still be pakistani at the end of the day. DUH. and it certainly doesn't makes their culture repugnant. If thats a yes then why do we get offended when some foreigner humiliates our culture or religion and calls us stupid, goat herders? So whats the difference between those people and us if we call their culture shitty.

Its not anyones fault they were born in Pakistani culture and if they want to identify with some other way of life then so be it. Everyone has a right to go for their own choice of culture or religion.

In the end you are what you choose to be not what you were meant to be.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you 100% Rida.. Unfortunately our society has some strange prejudices and stereotypes (And we blame the West for being like that). It's all about knowing other cultures and having a broad mind with lots of exposure to the world which can change such mindsets. Since childhood I have worn western clothes and I do so till this day. I admire the many great things that the West has achieved (especially when I spent some time there as a student) and similarly I admire many things of our culture. What we need to do is pick up good things from everywhere and live a life the way you want it to be. I live in a conservative city in this country and I always wear western clothes with a clean shaven look. Unfortunately most people here are ignorant and don't look at the fact that Im well educated and a good person from whom they can learn and increase their knowledge or get any useful help, but because I am a "Westernised Burger", they don't respect me unless I wear starch-ironed traditional clothes and grow big moustaches with two armed guards behind me and drive a big car. Now Im not saying that everyone is like this but this is what most people are like. We seriously need to change our mindset about many things.

[QUOTE=Nushrah Kabir;694719]i think i should make a apology here for touching such a sensitive topic.....
i just wanted to express my views....
Turning and turning in a winding gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer
Things fall apart the center cannot hold
Mere anarchy is lost upon the world[/QUOTE]

I would strongly advise you to live in an advanced western country for a year. All your questions will be answered and thoughts more cleared up.

[QUOTE=Nushrah Kabir;694719]i think i should make a apology here for touching such a sensitive topic.....
i just wanted to express my views....
Turning and turning in a winding gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer
Things fall apart the center cannot hold
Mere anarchy is lost upon the world[/QUOTE]

Turning and turning in [B]the widening [/B]
gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is [B] loosed [/B] upon the world, :)
(The Second Coming ~ W. B Yeats)

[QUOTE=Nushrah Kabir;694719]i think i should make a apology here for touching such a sensitive topic.....
i just wanted to express my views....
Turning and turning in a winding gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer
Things fall apart the center cannot hold
Mere anarchy is lost upon the world[/QUOTE]

Atleast this discussion thing broadens your knowledge and thinking directions. Ofcourse we ain't fighting here but merely sharing our views.

Well first step is to change your heart plus broaden thoughts to accommodate in society. And be a positively changed person.

Secondly, act before telling others to.

Thirdly, be like people of your society in appearance (within vast boundaries of Shariah) and don't be 'abnormal' to them or they will stop following you.

Lastly, where ever you go be the soul of that part (Hazrat Rumi ra), that people start liking you. How will they hear or follow you if you seem abnormal and conservative to them?

Our being conservative and rigid have tarnished image of Islam to the world. Is this what we want? Is this how we should do Tableegh? But we were taught to do it with 'Hikmah'.

If Shariah is vast why to make us so conservative? You were born with wings why prefer to crawl through life (Rumi ra). Shariah is based on our very own nature. It's not against it and our heart. It's sweet NOT bitter. It's beautiful NOT ugly to the world. If it seems to wide range of people than we must reconsider that we may be on the wrong way. eg When Shariah has defined 'satr' (body parts to be hidden) then why shouldn't we wear pent coat? If you are prohibiting then YOU ARE WRONG!

Simple things are made complicated if the thoughts ain't broadened

Prayers
Hideous Ahsen :ninja: