Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan02
But this same ideology is prevalent among the majority of the Muslims today. You will notice that though not everyone is as violent or extremist as organizations such as ISIS or TTP, a majority have certain beliefs and views that do approach violence. For example, recently one of my friends was talking about how it is completely OK to kill someone for apostasy. Keep in mind that this guy has no extremist tendencies and has NEVER harmed anyone. But still he does have some extremist tendencies. Same is the case with TTP supporters. No one would say outright that I support TTP, but they are often sympathetic to their cause, if not outright supportive. Point being that most Muslims do have extremist germs and these germs need only a stimulus to cause an epidemic  |
hmmm well violence is a part of human nature and perhaps everyone has a little tendency of that. However advancement of human civilization changes many things and make it impossible to revive same old practices in exactly the same manner doesn't matter how much religious belief is associated with it. For example your friend won't like to see public beheadings even though he might believe it to be religiously approved. Uncivilized use of force and violence is repulsive to people and this is the major reason why any of the terrorist group is unable to achieve anything, despite people being sympathetic to their cause
. Outdated ideology won't work in industrial age where skilled labor of various castes and creed are bound to come together.
BTW desiring death for apostasy is not a violent tendency, it's like desiring harsh punishment for a crime which the modern world no longer consider a crime
. Doing that in a civilized environment would require some law and it would require deliberation and debate to make laws even in dictatorships. So I can bet you a modern debate would define apostasy much differently then it's old perception, and process of persecution in today's civilized environment is highly evolved I can again bet you it won't work like people beheading each other on perceived apostasy
. Notice atheism is rising in Saudi however not many have been given death penalty
. Remember evolution still favor civilization and not return to state of nature and barbarism, and a modern civilization is bound to be an industrial and scientific one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan02
Personally I don't like Indian culture at all, their customs and traditions (and therefore most of ours too) are too regressive. A state based purely on Indian culture would be a barbaric state indeed. I guess their customs helped them survive thousands of years ago, but its not fit for the present. That said, I find it amazing that so many Indians have left their more repulsive customs. For example, the caste system still exists, but it is less than a shadow of its former self. |
I think there is a core difference between Islamic and Indian family structure. Indians looks like treat family more like an institution (pariwar) where some traditions continue (param para, niam
). Typically more competitive members of the family are granted higher status within it and head of the family sets rules, thus the phenomenon of wealth gap between family members arise. Members are trained the profession of the family (shiksha) and are often not allowed to choose profession of their choice, this way same professions continue within the family line for generations giving rise to a caste culture. The reason for this phenomenon is Indian civilization evolved over a large period of time in Indian environment where there is plenty of agricultural lands, thus the religious beliefs and political and economic order favors taking full advantage of it and build economy. The caste culture has even influenced Indian Muslims and we can notice professional castes in Pakistan. Perhaps this is a major reason why democracy prevailed in India despite problems, because the whole underlying culture support building institutions. Diverse evolution of Hindu religious belief is perhaps another reason why India favored secularism
. The caste culture is now declining because thousands of years of neolithic age is now being replaced by industrial age.
On the other hand, it seems the Islamic order treats family as an organization where members have rights on each other. Typically in an Islamic family members are taught religion so that they have awareness of rights and responsibilities, however 'rozi allah deta hai' means profession is not enforced
. More intelligent, strong and practicing members are given high status and wealth gap between family members doesn't arise. Muslim order is highly masculine and warrior like, way more than Indian. Perhaps it's because Islam (and other Abrahamic religions) arose in middle east where conditions are not good for economy. Thus there is high emphasis on strong organization based upon trust and purpose to seek truth, equal distribution of wealth, war and a higher power telling mankind to rise and master nature instead of fearing and worshipping it like pagans. This is again unlike Indian religions which are timid and superstitious and worship objects of nature
. The Abrahamic religions have had a great influence on human civilization, and even modern western civilization which has achieved so much knowledge and power owes thanks to them. Muslims have remained highly vary of establishing any permanent institutions which they fear might turn into temples, they focus more upon people doing justice with each other and seek knowledge. However pagan influence started returning to Islamic civilization soon after it started gaining power and eventually it lost it's power when Abbasi caliphate was destroyed. An interesting thing to note is middle eastern religions emphasize heavily on distribution of wealth and social justice and modern western civilization is suffering from that problem. Thus it is highly concerned that a movement from this region can change their 'way of life'
. It will attempt everything within it's power to make sure religious movement in this region does not make an impact on civilization. You must be noticing the question of human origins is being addressed with finer details and evidence is being brought out, it is to make sure that no 'message from creator god' start attracting people
.
considering all that, Pakistan is a country which remains under influence of both Islamic and Indian civilizations. Perhaps this was the major source of confusion among the founding fathers. As soon as the process of democracy and institution building starts it begins to see challenge from Islamic segments. The influence of islamic civilization remains great upon the military and it views india as an arch enemy and itself as an army of Islam. With current happenings in the Islamic world, it is eager to take control of the foreign policy. However democratic governments are attempting to establish trade relations with the world including the arch enemy and the government simply won't allow any adventurous bouts. Democracy is strengthened by international pressure and it has gained more momentum than before, but continuation of democracy can perhaps cause more concern from an anxious army then from IS or TTP.