|
1 Attachment(s)
This is the decent edition of my essay on Kalabagh Dam.
PS: Please check attachment! This is to notify that the decent edition of my essay on "Kalabagh Dam: Its impact on National Integrity" is uploaded. I have tried to balance the essay as far as I could. However, it can never be perfect. I welcome suggestions and criticism and apologize for mistakes and omissions. Please take pain to rectify me! Tabassum: I am prepared to answer any technical questions in this regard. You can commence an open discussion. Regards, Adil Memon |
Hey Adil..
Its kinda more pro Sindh....I wont call it Anti-Punjab...but pro-Sindh...[what else we can expect from a Mammon.....oppps sorry Memon :P][I guess ya should change the title from "Its impact on National Integrity" to "Its impact on Sindh's Integrity"]....I studied it from various articles ..and have gone through all the apprehensions claimed by the provinces...[though few things were complicated to digest for a person like me...who lacks in terms of technicality]...but I'm trying to get over my inabilities and then I'll be in a better position to comment over this controversial dilemma which has strangled the development of Pakistan for ages and now its the time to come out of land of utopia to cater the bitter realities of intra provincial conflict which has dampened our vision as one nation... |
Salaam,
Thankyou so much for reading it. I appreciate it. I will preserve my comments for a while. As soon as the criticism and suggestions are served here from all the corners I will reply everybody step by step! Regards, Adil Memon Thankyou so much again! |
AoA
I pray for wellbeing of all of you and needs the same as well Well I have tried a bit to place my notes in the discussion on one of the most controversial issues in Pakistan. Dear Adil, this version is a bit better than the previous one, good job, keep it up I will like to move step by step/point by point : (para 8 (A) means the para 8 of article by Adil Memon, whereas para 8 above means para 8 of below mentioned text, para 1 being counted as first para below the line) ---------------- 1. Para 8(A) : Kalabagh is a place in Punjab. On average (1975-2000) the annual inflow of Indus River and its western tributaries is 144.91 MAF (Indus, Kabul, Gomal, Soan etc.), whereas the inflow of Eastern Rivers (Jehlum, Chenab, Ravi, Sutlej, etc.) is 9.136 MAF. The outflow to sea, on average (1975-2000) is 39.5 MAF (37.01 in Kharif and 2.49 in Rabi) and water diverted to canals is 104.73 MAF (67.11 in Kharif and 37.63 in Rabi). 2. As per Water Apportionment Accord of 1991, the following share has been allocated to the provinces : Province Kharif Rabi Total Punjab 37.07 18.87 55.94 Sindh 33.94 14.82 48.76 NWFP 5.28 3.5 8.78 Balochistan: 2.85 1.02 3.87 Total 77.34 37.01 114.35 3. On average about 39.0 MAF is being wasted to the sea and as per claim of Sindh (during Accord of 1991) the optimum level required to check sea intrusion is 10 MAF, it means about 29 MAF can be utilized by the country. 4. Average annual energy generation would be 11400 GWH with 12 installed generators of 300 MWH each. 5 Concerns of NWFP (para 9(A) refers) i). Flooding/Inundation of fertile lands ii) Water logging and salinity iii) Large number of people would be displaced 6. Answers i) This apprehension got footing because of record flood of 1929, however, the conservation level of dam is 915 feet above mean sea level (MSL) and real causes of flooding at Nowshera and Peshawar Valley is entrance of Kabul river into confined channel at the end of valley; as Indus flows through a wide valley of over 8000 feet and is then forced to pass through 1000 feet gorge for 5 miles, this forces the river water to back up thus raising flood levels in Kabul river upto Nowshera. This is not likely to occur in case of Kalabagh because : a) the back water effect of Kalabagh lake would end about 8-10 miles (appx. 16 km) downstream of confluence of Kabul and Indus rivers b) the Tarbela dam has stopped the free flow of Indus river and condition like of 1929 cannot occur c) after launching of Ghazi Brotha project the water in actual Indus from point Ghazi to confluence with the Kabul river is negligible and in that area on certain places the flow of water in Indus river is 2-3 feet. ii). The lowest ground levels at Swabi, Mardan, and Pabbi are 1000, 970, and 962 feet respectively, as compared to the maximum conservation level of dam i.e. 915, this maximum reservoir level would be maintained only for 3 to 4 weeks during September and October after which it would deplete as water would be released for electricity generation and for Rabi crops. Ultimately it would go down to dead storage level of 825 feet by early June. This operation pattern of reservoir could not block the drainage in the Peshawar valley thus water-logging or salinity cannot be caused. Further, the drains of Mardan SCARP (Salinity control and reclamation project) are higher than 915 feet of maximum reservoir level so they can operate easily. iii). Based on a 1999 estimate, the total population to be relocated because of the project is 120,000. Of this, 78,000 persons will have to be relocated from the Punjab and 42,500 from NWFP. The project includes compensation for all affected people for their properties which include land, trees, buildings and other structures at market price in compliance with the Land Acquisition Act. 27 new model villages and 20 village extensions have been proposed. 7. Another major incentive provided for the affectees in the case of this dam, not previously offered for such a project in Pakistan, would be to fully compensate the farmers for the land on the reservoir periphery, above normal conservation level of 915 feet that could be flooded once in five years. This land would remain the property of the original owners for cultivation, with the undertaking that they would not claim any damages to crops for occasional flooding. 8. According to the plan, non-agriculturist people would be trained in various trades in the Training Institutes to be established in the Model Villages. These measures will provide them maximum job opportunities. 9. The area to be affected by the reservoir is about 134,500 acres. This includes 74% un-cultivable land in both the provinces. Of this, 95,800 acres falls in the Punjab and remaining 38,700 acres in the NWFP. 10. Concerns of Balochistan (para 9(A) refers): The primary concern of Balochistan is regarding share of water and Pat Feeder Canal originated from Gaddu Barage after construction of the dam, however, according to Water Accord of 1991 the water share of any province cannot be curtailed and new canal projects of any province would be entertained from overall share of the respective province. Since flow of Pat Feeder canal is related to water level in the Barage, therefore, its remodeling has been devised, so in fact the remodeling of Pat Feeder will increase its efficiency. 11. Concerns of Sindh (para 9 (A) refers) : i) The project would convert Sindh into a desert. ii) There is no surplus water to fill Kalabagh reservoir. iii) Cultivation in riverain (Sailaba) areas would be affected. iv). Sea water intrusion in Indus v) Mangrove forest, which are already threatened, would be further affected adversely. vi) Fish production and drinking water supply below Kotri would be adversely affected. 12. Answers i). Dams don’t consume any water. Instead these store water during flood season, which can be utilized during remaining dry periods. Before Tarbela the annual canal withdrawal of Sindh were 35.6. MAF, however, after Tarbala Dam figure rose to 44.5 MAF, and major benefit being got in Rabi season. ii). As stated at para -2 above, about 39 MAF is being wasted in the sea and as opined by Sindh during 1991 Accord that approx. 10 MAF is required to stop sea intrusion, so remaining water is 29 MAF. Further, I had seen in an article by some Sindhi person, that according to IUCN the water level required to evade sea intrusion is 27 MAF, if consider this ration than we also have 12 MAF water to feed the Kalabagh dam. iii). The Salaiba are the areas around the river bed and are fed by moisture in the soil during flood season. However, many farmers are already using water pumps/tube wells for cultivating these areas. The extra water in shape of small flooding will be there, which can easily feed the Sailaba areas. iv). As at para- 12 ii)/above, however, the existing aquifer system below Hyderabad is already saline, so no worry v). Mangrove forests cover an important area in the Indus Delta spreading from Karachi in the west to Rann of Kutch in the east and majority of its consist of a salt tolerant variety. The reduction in mangroves is due to many reasons like frequency of tidal inundation and uncontrolled overgrazing and cutting due to extreme population pressure of Karachi. For reviving the mangrove forests, persistent effort is required for replanting salt tolerant varieties in the area. vi). The statistical data shows that the production of fish has been constantly increasing, as such no problem. Further, fresh water supply in winter will assure good quality of water in the rivers and more fish. 13. The Kalabagh Dam project has converted into a favourite punching bag of many politicians who use this as their weapon against maligning the government. The Benazir was initially against the project but after assuming power, she favoured the cause. The same is the case with ANP etc. they favoured the project when in power in alliance with PML (N) and now they are again opposing the project. 14. The Government has proposed many mega projects in all the provinces like Right Bank Canal for Gomal region, Rainee and Kachi Canal for Sindh and Balochistan and the Greater Thal Canal in Punjab, which is not a new project in a sense that it was also on board during Water Accord of 1991. Certainly surplus water would be required to feed these channels. 15. However, there are indeed some points in minds of provinces which need to be cleared with them prior to finalizing any thing and technicalities of the project should deliberated upon instead of clamoring. 16. We need water for our future uses i.e. domestic/industrial requirements. For saving water the channels already in operation should be lined so that minimum loss occur due to percolation/seepage, on this the government has taken up in the matter but major is required to be done. ------------------------- Perhaps above appraisal would be helpful to some extent. |
what is this ? :confused: :confused: :confused:
|
AoA
Nayab, i hope u would b fine nd doing well dear the issue is with regard to construction of Kalabagh dam and its implications to provinces and so on, this is one of the crucial issues on air (prior to earth quake) and if the quake wont have rocked the northern Pakistan, then the issue would have moved further as the Government was going to do something important thereof hope you would go through the lines and make your own opinion |
Salaam,
Nayab: Just stay tuned... and you'll understand everything. Tabassum: I appreciate your response. Truly speaking, I was never expecting someone here competent enough to argue over the technical affairs on such a controversial project. But since you've stood up, I will do my best to defend myself! I have given the essay a week for discussion and comments. So far I received two replies so I will entertain them tomorrow! Inshallah! Regards, Adil Memon |
Salaam,
My Essay was kept free of technical stuff since most people here were not capable of understanding it, specially, the women, as a noteworthy example, Miss Saba. Saba, you will get my answer after you read all this. I did not favour Sindh. I stated what’s true and feasible! I am known to the world as a Pakistani, not as a Sindhi. Tabassum, it was really a bolt from the blue. I repent writing that word "Technical" in my previous post. However since I’ve hit an axe on my own feet, I will fight till the bitter end to defend myself. Let me continue! The points will be entertained sequently. (I appreciate your efforts) 1. Para 8(A): Kalabagh is a place in Punjab. On average (1975-2000) the annual inflow of Indus River and its western tributaries is 144.91 MAF (Indus, Kabul, Gomal, Soan etc.), whereas the inflow of Eastern Rivers (Jehlum, Chenab, Ravi, Sutlej, etc.) is 9.136 MAF. The outflow to sea, on average (1975-2000) is 39.5 MAF (37.01 in Kharif and 2.49 in Rabi) and water diverted to canals is 104.73 MAF (67.11 in Kharif and 37.63 in Rabi). << Thank you so much dear. I figured out later that I placed Kalabagh at the wrong province in my essay. I wrote 'in' where I was supposed to write 'near'. >> Agreed! However the share in Water Accords is 117MAF. 2. As per Water Apportionment Accord of 1991, the following share has been allocated to the provinces: Province Kharif Rabi Total Punjab 37.07 18.87 55.94 Sindh 33.94 14.82 48.76 NWFP 5.28 3.5 8.78 Balochistan: 2.85 1.02 3.87 Total 77.34 37.01 114.35 >> Ok... now this is much clear. You see, you missed something here. In your first paragraph you stated that 104.73 MAF is being diverted to use all over the country while the needs/rights are equal to 114.35 MAF. Now tell me where does the rest of 10 MAF come from to balance the demand and supply? Please take pain to answer. >> Besides that, let me inform you that in Water Accord 1991, Para-2, the water allocated to the four provinces is 117.35 MAF. And why our shares/rights have been curtailed you'll know as you keep reading. 3. On average about 39.0 MAF is being wasted to the sea and as per claim of Sindh (during Accord of 1991) the optimum level required to check sea intrusion is 10 MAF, it means about 29 MAF can be utilized by the country. >> This is the most controversial part I would like to further discuss. Brother, I guess you know that it's just an official claim that 35MAF (I didn't see the figure 39MAF anywhere) is available for use. It’s only a miscalculated figure, not a measured one. Thirty-five MAF is a huge quantity of water. It is eight MAF more than the Indus River's annual average flow at Skardu and about one-third of all the water in the irrigation system. How could it escape the eye especially when the provinces are fighting for every drop of water? If it were true, the delta would not have been ruined and the people in Thatta, Badin and Hyderabad districts would not have faced socio-economic and health problems, including skin and eye diseases, infections, anemia, abdomen problems, diarrhea and some other unheard of ailments, which doctors associate with the non-availability of water. Women and children wouldn't be facing malnutrition and a high mortality rate either. Also, the coastal area may not have been destroyed and none of the fishermen would have been displaced. The sea incursion may not have occurred and the advancing seawaters would not have inundated more than a million acres. If the claim were true, the mangrove forests, the marine and wildlife and the fresh-water fish would not have been affected. The ecosystem would still be intact. People would have been getting fresh drinking water and they would not have died or been taken ill by drinking polluted and poisonous water. (You can pickup the Metropolitan of Dawn, Karachi Edition for clarification) The technical people who have calculated that figure included the super floods that are unpredictable and can occur any time between every 5 - 25 years. This is the reason they have achieved such a high figure. So let me make it clear that even if we build Kalabagh, it will be empty for 4 out of 5 years (on the condition that super floods flow the 5th year, else you can understand). Simply speaking, it will be empty for 80 out of 100 years. The point I wanted to prove here is that we don't have enough water to store. Read next. 4. Average annual energy generation would be 11400 GWH with 12 installed generators of 300 MWH each. >> Agreed to this point. However let me state that currently we are not deficient of energy. The Prime Minister himself announced a few months back that we have 2000MW of extra power presently. We are not in any emergency need of energy! >> The cost of that energy won't be cheap because the project is damn exorbitant. 5 Concerns of NWFP (Para 9(A) refers) i). Flooding/Inundation of fertile lands i) This apprehension got footing because of record flood of 1929, however, the conservation level of dam is 915 feet above mean sea level (MSL) and real causes of flooding at Nowshera and Peshawar Valley is entrance of Kabul river into confined channel at the end of valley; as Indus flows through a wide valley of over 8000 feet and is then forced to pass through 1000 feet gorge for 5 miles, this forces the river water to back up thus raising flood levels in Kabul river up to Nowshera. This is not likely to occur in case of Kalabagh because: >> There are several instances where dams have cracked and wreaked havoc on the surrounding areas. The case can apply here. (As I suggested in my essay, safeguards should be guaranteed for this part). The dam will cause backwater flow and flooding in the Kabul River in the Peshawar valley from Indus water due to heading up at the narrow Attock gorge. (This is what I learnt while my study. I can't technically prove it. I am not an engineer) Try to envisage an earthquake at the site of the dam when it is storing water. What do you contemplate after that? Dams should be far away from habitable lands. I personally suggest that they should be built in the mountains. a) The back water effect of Kalabagh Lake would end about 8-10 miles (appx. 16 km) downstream of confluence of Kabul and Indus rivers >> How? :D b) The Tarbela dam has stopped the free flow of Indus River and condition like of 1929 cannot occur >> Tarbela dam is getting silted heavily. Its capacity is quite short to withstand super floods like that of 1929. ii). The lowest ground levels at Swabi, Mardan, and Pabbi are 1000, 970, and 962 feet respectively, as compared to the maximum conservation level of dam i.e. 915, this maximum reservoir level would be maintained only for 3 to 4 weeks during September and October after which it would deplete as water would be released for electricity generation and for Rabi crops. Ultimately it would go down to dead storage level of 825 feet by early June. This operation pattern of reservoir could not block the drainage in the Peshawar valley thus water-logging or salinity cannot be caused. Further, the drains of Mardan SCARP (Salinity control and reclamation project) are higher than 915 feet of maximum reservoir level so they can operate easily. >> According to my statistics, the highest conservation level of the dam is 24 feet above the ground level of Nowshera. Through my source, I came to learn that the dam will be 260 meters high. Now I need to know about the ground level of the site where the dam is being constructed to visualize/contemplate the scenario. I will need to study this point a little deeper. I will clear it afterwards! iii) Based on a 1999 estimate, the total population to be relocated because of the project is 120,000. Of this, 78,000 persons will have to be relocated from the Punjab and 42,500 from NWFP. The project includes compensation for all affected people for their properties which include land, trees, buildings and other structures at market price in compliance with the Land Acquisition Act. 27 new model villages and 20 village extensions have been proposed. 7. Another major incentive provided for the affectees in the case of this dam, not previously offered for such a project in Pakistan, would be to fully compensate the farmers for the land on the reservoir periphery, above normal conservation level of 915 feet that could be flooded once in five years. This land would remain the property of the original owners for cultivation, with the undertaking that they would not claim any damages to crops for occasional flooding. 8. According to the plan, non-agriculturist people would be trained in various trades in the Training Institutes to be established in the Model Villages. These measures will provide them maximum job opportunities. >> Who trusts this? NWFP doesn't. She has an account of Tarbela people that serves as a historical evidence of hollowness of such commitments. Central government is a renegade. (I suggested in my essay earlier that the Central Govt. should try o earn the confidence of the affected parties) Besides that, population is increasing rapidly. We are running out of habitable places and due to the recent boom in land prices the resettlement plan is economically unfeasible. The powers-that-be are bragging with the habitable land prices of 1980s and they can't even imagine that the cost of rehabilitation will be more than 200% of what they surmise. 9. The area to be affected by the reservoir is about 134,500 acres. This includes 74% un-cultivable land in both the provinces. Of this, 95,800 acres falls in the Punjab and remaining 38,700 acres in the NWFP. >> I read the opposite about this part. According to my source, major proportion of the site consists of fertile land and is a perfect habitable land. Do you have some idea where will such a large people be located and settled? 10. Concerns of Balochistan (Para 9(A) refers): The primary concern of Balochistan is regarding share of water and Pat Feeder Canal originated from Gaddu Barage after construction of the dam, however, according to Water Accord of 1991 the water share of any province cannot be curtailed and new canal projects of any province would be entertained from overall share of the respective province. Since flow of Pat Feeder canal is related to water level in the Barage, therefore, its remodeling has been devised, so in fact the remodeling of Pat Feeder will increase its efficiency. >> The remodeling is sure to cause diversion; else, the Baloch people wouldn't have raised any objections for a national project. I lack any technical specification here. They have passed 2 or 3 resolutions against the Dam in their assembly! 11. Concerns of Sindh (Para 9 (A) refers): i) The project would convert Sindh into a desert. ii) There is no surplus water to fill Kalabagh reservoir. iii) Cultivation in riverain (Sailaba) areas would be affected. iv) Sea water intrusion in Indus v) Mangrove forests, which are already threatened, would be further affected adversely. vi) Fish production and drinking water supply below Kotri would be adversely affected. 12. Answers i). Dams don’t consume any water. Instead these store water during flood season, which can be utilized during remaining dry periods. Before Tarbela the annual canal withdrawal of Sindh were 35.6. MAF, however, after Tarbala Dam figure rose to 44.5 MAF, and major benefit being got in Rabi season. >> Who said dams consume water? But those, who have the taps in their controls, do. Yes I am speaking about Punjab. The problem here is that Sindh doesn't trust Punjab. It’s all logical and based on past experiences. I will present some instances of Punjab's treacherous conduct below. My dear brother you're surely misguided about the water share of Sindh increasing after construction of Tarbela Dam. The total storage capacity of Tarbela is something like 9 MAF and the increase in Sindh's share according to your statements is 9MAF. I wonder if the powers-that-be have become so generous to flow all the water from the dam to Sindh. And yes, as I said, we don't have surplus water to store. So Kalabagh dam will only store the water share of Sindh. And then Sindh will be at the mercy of Punjab. As I write further, you'll understand my points. ii). As stated at Para-2 above, about 39 MAF is being wasted in the sea and as opined by Sindh during 1991 Accord that approx. 10 MAF is required to stop sea intrusion, so remaining water is 29 MAF. Further, I had seen in an article by some Sindhi person, that according to IUCN the water level required to evade sea intrusion is 27 MAF, if consider this ration than we also have 12 MAF water to feed the Kalabagh dam. >> There is no surplus water. However, let me agree for a while that there is. Well be informed that the 1991 Accords were never in the favour of Sindh (Punjab even tried to inactivate it and replace it with their Ministerial Accord 1994, but failed). 10MAF is indeed insufficient to stop the intrusion. Regarding that Sindhi person, I wonder if he was a Pakistani who doesn't want the development of his country. He emphasized on preservation of nature, which should be our top most priority. The Sindhi person quoted the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN). I am quite confused to figure out that who is more competent enough to decide good or bad, our throne-thirsty government or that world class International Union. Dear, if we stop the flow of fresh water in to the sea, the damages will be more horrendous. We are trying to mess up with a natural cycle. The consequences will be; extensive salinity of water; and degradation of land, mangroves and fisheries. Already, millions of acres of fertile land have been rendered barren due to this intrusion. I don't know why we want more cultivation at the cost of degradation of land in Sindh. The so-called well-wishers don't know that due to the sea-intrusion the country is suffering severe economic damage. Amazingly it is claimed that the dam will contribute to the growth of the country. I laugh at those people. >> We are trying to create wheat at the cost of water, notwithstanding, that we can live weeks without food but not more than a day or two without water. Wheat can be imported, but water can’t be. iii). The Salaiba are the areas around the river bed and are fed by moisture in the soil during flood season. However, many farmers are already using water pumps/tube wells for cultivating these areas. The extra water in shape of small flooding will be there, which can easily feed the Sailaba areas. >> More than 40% (official claim) of Sindh's water is saline. I don’t know whether the water in those areas is capable of cultivating lands. However, I think inundation lands can be cultivated through floods only (not sure). Well, small floods will be stored in the dams on the way before reaching the lands that can cultivate those lands. And we can't wait for super floods every 5th year or more, to come and quench the thirst of those lands. v). Mangrove forests cover an important area in the Indus Delta spreading from Karachi in the west to Rann of Kutch in the east and majority of its consist of a salt tolerant variety. The reduction in mangroves is due to many reasons like frequency of tidal inundation and uncontrolled overgrazing and cutting due to extreme population pressure of Karachi. For reviving the mangrove forests, persistent effort is required for replanting salt tolerant varieties in the area. >> I don't know if they are really salt tolerant. The rest of your ideas about the reduction in mangrove forests are agreed on. They are totally true. And I am personally ignorant about their irrigation method. I don't know if they can be only supplied water through the Indus Delta or the sea water can work. As soon I'm competent enough in this concerned area, I will discuss more about it. However salt tolerant varieties exist and you are right to say that they should be planted. vi) The statistical data shows that the production of fish has been constantly increasing, as such no problem. Further, fresh water supply in winter will assure good quality of water in the rivers and more fish. >> Ha-ha... Show me that statistical data. Fresh water in winter, how do you assure that the water will flow down in winter? You missed to talk about the quality of fish. I can present my own experience here. The quality of Fish in Sanghar is excellent since it receives fresh water. However, the fish of Hyderabad is pathetic in quality and it’s all because it doesn’t receive fresh water. You forgot that we're suffering several embargoes for Fish export due to the filthy quality. 13. The Kalabagh Dam project has converted into a favourite punching bag of many politicians who use this as their weapon against maligning the government. The Benazir was initially against the project but after assuming power, she favoured the cause. The same is the case with ANP etc. they favoured the project when in power in alliance with PML (N) and now they are again opposing the project. >> What do you actually mean by maligning the Government? We had several regimes in between the proposal of the dam and today. I wonder if this was always used as a weapon of so-called maligning EVERY government. And astonishing is the fact that it’s the only project used as cherry-blossom, why not the other dams. NWFP, Balochistan and Sindh are not opposed to the construction of dams. Go build Skardu, Bhasha and Katzara, there is no problem. Katzara is the best choice. I will explain in the end, how! I am least concerned about those politicians. Are they trustworthy/sincere enough to be quoted? By the way, opposition is backed up by technical experts like Idrees Rajput (Sindh), Fatehullah Khan (NWFP) etc. And these people have nothing to do with politics. Kalabagh dam is a lollypop to Punjab by Musharraf. It’s a gesture of gratitude, because he was given a positive vote from the Punjab Assembly to retain his uniform as long as he wanted and unfortunately Sindh didn't please him at that stance. 14. The Government has proposed many mega projects in all the provinces like Right Bank Canal for Gomal region, Rainee and Kachi Canal for Sindh and Balochistan and the Greater Thal Canal in Punjab, which is not a new project in a sense that it was also on board during Water Accord of 1991. Certainly surplus water would be required to feed these channels. >> He he... the favourite point. Here I can present one of the instances of Punjab's treacherous attitude. Yes, you're thinking right, it’s the Chenab-Jehlum Canal. Previously while its construction was on the way, Sindh was assured that water will be drawn into that canal only when there will be surplus. However today we see them diverting water even at the times of drought. Isn't this injustice? Now they are building (maybe have built :D) The Greater Thal canal. Sindh has the same reservations again. Let’s see who wins. It’s really unlucky to be a lower-riparian. 15. However, there are indeed some points in minds of provinces which need to be cleared with them prior to finalizing any thing and technicalities of the project should deliberated upon instead of clamoring. >> I agree with you here. Some points of the affected parties may be fabricated or exaggerated but, irrespective of all that, they must be heeded. They are integral units of this country. Consensus must be achieved. The assemblies of these provinces have passed more than 7 resolutions against the dam. Building the dam is no doubt based on the assumption that three out of four provinces and more than 70 million people, who do not want the dam, are totally ignorant and do not know what is good for them. It’s undemocratic. Para-6 of Water Accords 1991 demands written consensus for the construction of a dam. It’s against the law to authoritatively proceed with such a controversial dam. Is Musharraf or Punjab above the law? And, for your kind information, World Bank won’t finance the project until consensus is achieved. 16. We need water for our future uses i.e. domestic/industrial requirements. For saving water the channels already in operation should be lined so that minimum loss occur due to percolation/seepage, on this the government has taken up in the matter but major is required to be done. >> Well, your points are absolutely right here. You have correctly objected the efficiency of channels. In my opinion, we should prefer efficiency over new projects. I have even come to know that our present dams aren't being used to the full storage capacity today? What will we do of this Kalabagh Dam? Musharraf is trying to build a bath tub for him and his ministers :D. I have some more points. This time I can oppose the dam openly because you've taken the Punjabi (ha-ha) stance: 1) We don't have storage water. 2) Presently our debt stands at $35 billion. If we take $10 billion more it will rise to $45 billion and we will be further indebted. Let’s break the shinning begging bowl now. Let’s build small dams, with our own wherewithal and be care-free. 3) Kalabagh dam will be silted quite fast and it has a lifetime of 20 years only. 4) It has a very short life and a very big cost. 5) Its not a flood-control dam 6) IRSA has disapproved the dam. 7) EIA is a study which identifies and quantifies the benefits as well as the adverse effects of a project. It also recommends controlling measures to minimize the adverse effects. EIA is, in fact, a tool for the competent authority to facilitate his decision. It is for the competent authority to decide whether the residual adverse effects after mitigation are acceptable. You would be surprised to know that EIA has not been carried out even for large projects of national importance. For example, it was not done for the Kalabagh Dam project along with the feasibility studies, and Wapda, on its own, proceeded to the final design stage. 8) Experts are highly opposed to mega projects 9) We must understand that we can't produce water. We should try to conserve nature to keep the supply running. You know the Baglihar Dam Issue. Be informed that India is totally justified to build that dam on Chenab since it has some share in the western rivers according to the Indus Basin Treaty 1960. Actually Pakistan fears that India would encroach upon the rights of her water share after building the dam. And the condition is exactly the same inside the country. Sindh has the same reservations against Punjab. It’s disheartening to know that Pakistan can't bear injustice at the hands of an outsider but is unresponsive to the cries of one of its dear province After all this, if a dam is indispensable. Build Katzara dam. According to my studies, it’s the best replacement! For further information pickup the "Economics and Business" pages of this Monday and read the topic "Choosing the right dam" by "Fatehullah Khan" who is a senior engineer and ex-chairman IRSA. I am presenting the basic points below: Katzara The dam will generate 15,000 MW of environment-friendly power and avoid equivalent thermal power generation. This will help prevent global warming and improve the environment. It will change the landscape of the country by turning barren and desert like areas into a green landscape. Katzarah will have six times the storage capacity of Basha or Kalabagh at the same cost. Mind this point; the storage capacity will be 36MAF at the same cost. It can be filled by super floods and no danger of destruction. It will control super floods in the Indus due to global warming and reduce the adverse backwater flow and flooding in the Kabul River in the Peshawar valley from Indus water due to heading up at the narrow Attock gorge. It will save 35 MAF of floodwater (until super floods arise and there is waste water) going waste to sea each year and provide irrigation facilities for about 10 million acres (5 times more cultivation than Kalabagh) of barren land in the four provinces. Let it be clear that the mid-level sluicing Kalabagh according to its design and operation is not a flood control dam at all as it will be empty and will be on run-of-river from June 1 to July 20. Katzara Dam alone can save all the dams on the way from silting. Built Bhasha after Katzara and it will last 800 years. I personally have no allegiance to any political party. I am simply a well-wisher of Pakistan. My province "Sindh" exists with Pakistan. I am identified as a Pakistani (Though I derive my nationality). Regards, Adil Memon In case I have committed any mistake. You can criticize me for it. I am so sorry if I have crossed the bounds of decency in my post. I have tried to control my language since you've often complained about it and a special assertion was made in the PM to have some "positive argumentation". I will avoid bringing such controversial topics to open discussion subsequently. |
Please solve it
[B]I am a completely non technical person....compared to sir tabbasum and sir adil....
but i have some riddles in my mind: 1: all these locations i.e , bhasha , katzara, warsak and tarbela are located in terrains of highly seismic activity, whereas kalabagh and mangla are also located at piedmont foothills of himalayas. The propsed site for kalabagh dam was also damaged in the recent earthquake. What could be the measures to rein in the seismic effects to save these dams/sites. 2:my 2nd query migt seem a bit offensive but it is a question of common sense,.,, that, there are a few brethren of mine from nwfp and sind who threaten to blow kalabagh dam if its built.,, i respect their emotions,,, but none of them has so far shown any ambition to blow bagliahar and wooler barages ! why?[/B] |
Dear Nhpaki,
I am in no way a technical person. Despite that, I would give a try to reply to your questions. 1) I don't personally have any idea about the construction of dams whether they are quake-resistent or no. I have also heard that after the earthquake the site of Kalabagh has been rendered unworthy for construction of a dam. However, replying your question, in my opinion there are no such protective measures one can take. (I also discussed this point in my above explanation). I wonder if mountains are affected by earthquakes as much as ordinary plains. If they are not, dams could be built up there! 2) Well, you must know something that we don't have provincial harmony. Baglihar and Wooler will affect the whole country and it's an issue to be settled between Central Government and India. While Kalabagh dam is a conflict between Central Government and the provinces. It is not the responsibility of the provinces to solve the international issues. They are not given such authority or autonomy. Simply speaking, its out of jurisdiction of the provinces! Regards, Adil Memon I am ready to face any kind of criticism any time. |
Assalam Alaikum
Mr. Memon, from Architectural point of view, there are methods available that a building or a infrastructure can be made earthquake resistant. To make it simple, when the earthquake comes, it causes the foundation of the structure to move, as a result its walls and roof and other parts are effected. But in a structure that is builts to withstand earthquake, they have a flexiblilty to roll or move at the foundation level, therefore that above ground structure has flexiblity to move as well. When the earth shakes, they move with it, to come to its original position after the movement. Therefore, the damage in the aftermath is minimal. But, as in the housing in the Azad Kashmir, I believe the construction is solely done with concrete, which is very rigid, and act as house of cards in any earthquake scenario. Poor construction qualitiy is also a result. Same High tech method of constructions applies to damn constructions. Hope u find it useful. Japan is a perfect example of earthquake resistant construction, be it small scale or large scale projects. Thanks. |
Salaam,
Thank you so much Mr. Ding Dong for sharing your technical knowledge with us. I wonder if had gone stupid while writing my comments. After-all how could a project of millions of dollars be implemented without taking precautions? Regards, Adil Memon |
AoA
dear Adil you have tried to sort the matter out, language was not as such bad, which is comendable. keep it up hmmmm, me too endeavour to defend the issue, nonetheless i would b putting my comments inshallah in a day or two as much bzy in official business nd some other assignments |
m really impressed by the hard work done by Mr.Adil & Ms.Awan on the too controvercial issue of Kalabagh Dam...They have really tried thair best to look at it thoroughly..But a piece of advice if u allow me..Never go in the depths of a controvercial issue like this.Just try to omit it.From practical point of view,u just dont need Kalabagh dam issue to master over..i mean what in essence is the importance of KB dam?For example ,if the subject comes as essay,just omit it if u think u can't balance it.Moreover there is a long list of essays to attempt,why go for KB dam with unknown consequences,given the gravity of issue.And if it strikes u in the Current r Pak Affairs,then this information posted by u is far more enough to attempt a 20 marks question.
Anyways,i just spoke my mind... Regards |
Salaam,
Sir, I am really glad that you read our discussion with interest. Thank you so much for that. Actually I just posted an essay on that subject for open discussion. I did not want to go into the technical details. But when I found one of the respectable members (Mr. Awan) raising some technical objections to my points, I was naturally bound to defend myself. I don't surrender, however it's ok if i'm defeated after a fierce fight. :D However, I totally agree with your assertions that it's useless. But infact now I feel competent enough to talk about that subject. It gives me confidence, which I generally lack! I will follow your suggestions in future! Regards, Adil Memon Thanks again! |
AoA
I pray for well being of all and sundry Agreeing to the point of Shahid Sb that we must try to avoid controversial issues, however, this is with regard to knowledge, which don’t have any boundaries nd since it is a national issue so we must have know how of the matter Dear Adil you have done good job, indeed you did not use offensive language at any point, may Allah bless you I tried to make its organized form, whereby (i) means point at my previous posting (i) << means point of Adil Memon (i) ---- means my new points ------------------------------------------------ A (i) 1. Para 8(A): Kalabagh is a place in Punjab. On average (1975-2000) the annual inflow of Indus River and its western tributaries is 144.91 MAF (Indus, Kabul, Gomal, Soan etc.), whereas the inflow of Eastern Rivers (Jehlum, Chenab, Ravi, Sutlej, etc.) is 9.136 MAF. The outflow to sea, on average (1975-2000) is 39.5 MAF (37.01 in Kharif and 2.49 in Rabi) and water diverted to canals is 104.73 MAF (67.11 in Kharif and 37.63 in Rabi). (ii) << Thank you so much dear. I figured out later that I placed Kalabagh at the wrong province in my essay. I wrote 'in' where I was supposed to write 'near'. >> Agreed! However the share in Water Accords is 117MAF. (iii) --- Dear the water diverted to canals is 104.73 MAF, however, according to 1991 Accord the share of provinces totals to 114.35 MAF this includes water diverted to canals and water required to other uses. -------------------------------------------------------- B (i) 2. As per Water Apportionment Accord of 1991, the following share has been allocated to the provinces: Province Kharif Rabi Total Punjab 37.07 18.87 55.94 Sindh 33.94 14.82 48.76 NWFP 5.28 3.5 8.78 Balochistan: 2.85 1.02 3.87 Total 77.34 37.01 114.35 (ii) >> Ok... now this is much clear. You see, you missed something here. In your first paragraph you stated that 104.73 MAF is being diverted to use all over the country while the needs/rights are equal to 114.35 MAF. Now tell me where does the rest of 10 MAF come from to balance the demand and supply? Please take pain to answer. (iii) --- As stated in A (iii) above, the water diverted to canals is 104 MAF, while the overall rights equal to 114.35 MAF (iv) >> Besides that, let me inform you that in Water Accord 1991, Para-2, the water allocated to the four provinces is 117.35 MAF. And why our shares/rights have been curtailed you'll know as you keep reading. (v) --- Dear the water allocated vide 1991 Accord is 114 MAF nd 3 MAF is the water share for Civil Canals above rim stations ---------------------------------------------------------- C (i) 3. On average about 39.0 MAF is being wasted to the sea and as per claim of Sindh (during Accord of 1991) the optimum level required to check sea intrusion is 10 MAF, it means about 29 MAF can be utilized by the country. (ii) >>This is the most controversial part I would like to further discuss. Brother, I guess you know that it's just an official claim that 35MAF (I didn't see the figure 39MAF anywhere) is available for use. It’s only a miscalculated figure, not a measured one. Thirty-five MAF is a huge quantity of water. It is eight MAF more than the Indus River's annual average flow at Skardu and about one-third of all the water in the irrigation system. How could it escape the eye especially when the provinces are fighting for every drop of water? If it were true, the delta would not have been ruined and the people in Thatta, Badin and Hyderabad districts would not have faced socio-economic and health problems, including skin and eye diseases, infections, anemia, abdomen problems, diarrhea and some other unheard of ailments, which doctors associate with the non-availability of water. Women and children wouldn't be facing malnutrition and a high mortality rate either. Also, the coastal area may not have been destroyed and none of the fishermen would have been displaced. The sea incursion may not have occurred and the advancing seawaters would not have inundated more than a million acres. If the claim were true, the mangrove forests, the marine and wildlife and the fresh-water fish would not have been affected. The ecosystem would still be intact. People would have been getting fresh drinking water and they would not have died or been taken ill by drinking polluted and poisonous water. (You can pickup the Metropolitan of Dawn, Karachi Edition for clarification) The technical people who have calculated that figure included the super floods that are unpredictable and can occur any time between every 5 - 25 years. This is the reason they have achieved such a high figure. So let me make it clear that even if we build Kalabagh, it will be empty for 4 out of 5 years (on the condition that super floods flow the 5th year, else you can understand). Simply speaking, it will be empty for 80 out of 100 years. The point I wanted to prove here is that we don't have enough water to store. Read next. (iii) ---- Dear 35 MAF is not the quantity of the water flowing at a specific point of time to get notice of people. This water discharge is for the whole year specifically during the Kharif months, when downpour and ice melting contributes high flow in the rivers. As stated at C (i) above about 39 MAF goes to sea, out of which 36.94 MAF or 93.8% goes in Kharif. In the rabi season, on average about 2.44 MAF flows to sea. As per the calculated figures of Sindh, the minimum escapage to check sea intrusion was 10 MAF. It was decided in 1991 Accord that further studies would be undertaken to establish the minimal escapage needs. As per studies, the ground water in lower part of lower Indus Basin is salty and it is not from previous ten or twenty years but it was there in British era as well. This is an important reason for salinity and sodicity. The water availability is indeed unreliable. The highest annual water availability in the recorded history (from 1922 todate) was 187 MAF (million acre feet) in the year 1959-60 as against the minimum of 96 MAF in the year 2001-2002, which averages to 141 MAF, however, from 1975 to date the water discharge on average is 145 MAF, please note that this do not include the highest available water in recorded history, but includes the lowest annual water availability. The live storage capacity of the dam is 6.1 MAF at retention point i.e. 915 feet MSL (mean sea level) and gross storage equals to 7.9 MAF, this will only be made in high water available months i.e Kharif, whereas after discharge of water for Rabi crops the water storage would be equal to 4-5 MAF at retention level 825 feet MSL (mean sea level). The Dead storage for tough years would be appx. 2 MAF. As such the Dam won’t remain empty. -------------------------------------------- D (i) 4. Average annual energy generation would be 11400 GWH with 12 installed generators of 300 MWH each. (ii) >> Agreed to this point. However let me state that currently we are not deficient of energy. The Prime Minister himself announced a few months back that we have 2000MW of extra power presently. We are not in any emergency need of energy! >> The cost of that energy won't be cheap because the project is damn exorbitant. (iii) ---- Dear we get extra electricity generation only for small period of time i.e. in high water available months, whereas in remaining months we are in short of electricity that’s why we face load shedding. As per studies, the cost of one unit of hydel power is 8-10 times less than cost of other power generating resources like gas or coal. Further, we are boosting industrial sector, which indeed require cheap source of energy and that is only hydel power. ---------------------------------------------------- E (i) 5 Concerns of NWFP (Para 9(A) refers) Flooding/Inundation of fertile lands This apprehension got footing because of record flood of 1929, however, the conservation level of dam is 915 feet above mean sea level (MSL) and real causes of flooding at Nowshera and Peshawar Valley is entrance of Kabul river into confined channel at the end of valley; as Indus flows through a wide valley of over 8000 feet and is then forced to pass through 1000 feet gorge for 5 miles, this forces the river water to back up thus raising flood levels in Kabul river up to Nowshera. This is not likely to occur in case of Kalabagh because: (ii) >> There are several instances where dams have cracked and wreaked havoc on the surrounding areas. The case can apply here. (As I suggested in my essay, safeguards should be guaranteed for this part). The dam will cause backwater flow and flooding in the Kabul River in the Peshawar valley from Indus water due to heading up at the narrow Attock gorge. (This is what I learnt while my study. I can't technically prove it. I am not an engineer) Try to envisage an earthquake at the site of the dam when it is storing water. What do you contemplate after that? Dams should be far away from habitable lands. I personally suggest that they should be built in the mountains. (iii) ---- For sure, if someone is going to construct a huge dam that certainly precautionary measures would be there. You learning is right, the 1929 flood was because of the same reason, but now the situation is not likely to happen as Ghazi Brother project changes the flow direction of water and major portion of river Indus now moves through the Ghazi Brotha Canal and seldom moves through the Attock gorge (iv) a) The back water effect of Kalabagh Lake would end about 8-10 miles (appx. 16 km) downstream of confluence of Kabul and Indus rivers >> How? (v) --- Because the maximum retention point of dam is 915 feet which comes at appx. 16 km downstream of confluence of Kabul and Indus (vi) b) The Tarbela dam has stopped the free flow of Indus River and condition like of 1929 cannot occur >> Tarbela dam is getting silted heavily. Its capacity is quite short to withstand super floods like that of 1929. (vii) ----- As stated at E (iii) above (viii) ii). The lowest ground levels at Swabi, Mardan, and Pabbi are 1000, 970, and 962 feet respectively, as compared to the maximum conservation level of dam i.e. 915, this maximum reservoir level would be maintained only for 3 to 4 weeks during September and October after which it would deplete as water would be released for electricity generation and for Rabi crops. Ultimately it would go down to dead storage level of 825 feet by early June. This operation pattern of reservoir could not block the drainage in the Peshawar valley thus water-logging or salinity cannot be caused. Further, the drains of Mardan SCARP (Salinity control and reclamation project) are higher than 915 feet of maximum reservoir level so they can operate easily. (ix) >> According to my statistics, the highest conservation level of the dam is 24 feet above the ground level of Nowshera. Through my source, I came to learn that the dam will be 260 meters high. Now I need to know about the ground level of the site where the dam is being constructed to visualize/contemplate the scenario. I will need to study this point a little deeper. I will clear it afterwards! (x) ----- The maximum height of dam where the water could be retained is proposed to be 915 feet MSL (mean sea level) whereas the lowest point of Nowshera is at an elevation of 938 feet and of the Mardan SCARP is 958 feet. So the lowest point of Nowshera is 23 feet above to maximum retention point of dam. ------------------------------------------- F (i) iii) Based on a 1999 estimate, the total population to be relocated because of the project is 120,000. Of this, 78,000 persons will have to be relocated from the Punjab and 42,500 from NWFP. The project includes compensation for all affected people for their properties which include land, trees, buildings and other structures at market price in compliance with the Land Acquisition Act. 27 new model villages and 20 village extensions have been proposed. 7. Another major incentive provided for the affectees in the case of this dam, not previously offered for such a project in Pakistan, would be to fully compensate the farmers for the land on the reservoir periphery, above normal conservation level of 915 feet that could be flooded once in five years. This land would remain the property of the original owners for cultivation, with the undertaking that they would not claim any damages to crops for occasional flooding. 8. According to the plan, non-agriculturist people would be trained in various trades in the Training Institutes to be established in the Model Villages. These measures will provide them maximum job opportunities. (ii) >> Who trusts this? NWFP doesn't. She has an account of Tarbela people that serves as a historical evidence of hollowness of such commitments. Central government is a renegade. (I suggested in my essay earlier that the Central Govt. should try o earn the confidence of the affected parties) Besides that, population is increasing rapidly. We are running out of habitable places and due to the recent boom in land prices the resettlement plan is economically unfeasible. The powers-that-be are bragging with the habitable land prices of 1980s and they can't even imagine that the cost of rehabilitation will be more than 200% of what they surmise. (iii) ----- Dear the majority of part where the dam is proposed comprise of barren hilly or sub-hilly tracts and these areas are sparsely populated so perhaps nothing to be worried. The overalls cost involved in rehabilitation of people had been mentioned in the feasibility, and it would definitely be revised when the dam is to be finalized as such the people would get the land price of that day. (iv) 9. The area to be affected by the reservoir is about 134,500 acres. This includes 74% un-cultivable land in both the provinces. Of this, 95,800 acres falls in the Punjab and remaining 38,700 acres in the NWFP. (v) >> I read the opposite about this part. According to my source, major proportion of the site consists of fertile land and is a perfect habitable land. Do you have some idea where will such a large people be located and settled? (vi) ---- As stated at F (iii) above, the cultivation done in the area is rain fed/arid or barani and the area in Punjab is Potowar plateau, whereas in NWFP the area is sub hilly or uneven. However, some implications/apprehensions, are that if the height of dam is increased it may like to cause some problems to salt mines located nearby in the Kalabagh range or to some oil and gas projects like Khore in Attock. ----------------------------------- G (i) 10. Concerns of Balochistan (Para 9(A) refers): The primary concern of Balochistan is regarding share of water and Pat Feeder Canal originated from Gaddu Barage after construction of the dam, however, according to Water Accord of 1991 the water share of any province cannot be curtailed and new canal projects of any province would be entertained from overall share of the respective province. Since flow of Pat Feeder canal is related to water level in the Barage, therefore, its remodeling has been devised, so in fact the remodeling of Pat Feeder will increase its efficiency. (ii) >> The remodeling is sure to cause diversion; else, the Baloch people wouldn't have raised any objections for a national project. I lack any technical specification here. They have passed 2 or 3 resolutions against the Dam in their assembly! (iii) ----- Dear as stated at G (i) above the main concerns of Balochistan are regarding Pat Feeder Canal and of proportion of water share and it is not likely to happen ---------------------- H (i) 11. Concerns of Sindh (Para 9 (A) refers): i) The project would convert Sindh into a desert. ii) There is no surplus water to fill Kalabagh reservoir. iii) Cultivation in riverain (Sailaba) areas would be affected. iv) Sea water intrusion in Indus v) Mangrove forests, which are already threatened, would be further affected adversely. vi) Fish production and drinking water supply below Kotri would be adversely affected. 12. Answers i). Dams don’t consume any water. Instead these store water during flood season, which can be utilized during remaining dry periods. Before Tarbela the annual canal withdrawal of Sindh were 35.6. MAF, however, after Tarbala Dam figure rose to 44.5 MAF, and major benefit being got in Rabi season. (ii) >> Who said dams consume water? But those, who have the taps in their controls, do. Yes I am speaking about Punjab. The problem here is that Sindh doesn't trust Punjab. It’s all logical and based on past experiences. I will present some instances of Punjab's treacherous conduct below. My dear brother you're surely misguided about the water share of Sindh increasing after construction of Tarbela Dam. The total storage capacity of Tarbela is something like 9 MAF and the increase in Sindh's share according to your statements is 9MAF. I wonder if the powers-that-be have become so generous to flow all the water from the dam to Sindh. And yes, as I said, we don't have surplus water to store. So Kalabagh dam will only store the water share of Sindh. And then Sindh will be at the mercy of Punjab. As I write further, you'll understand my points. (iii) -------------- Hmmm brother the problem of distribution of water, perhaps first time rose in 1945, any how, the maximum storage level of Tarbela at one time is 9 MAF it does not mean that whole year the dam stores 9 MAF, and the share increased for the Sindh is 9 MAF for the whole year, nd specifically during the odd months i.e. Rabi season the Sindh got more water. As such the share of water increased. As stated at C (iii) above, we have some additional water in Kharif season so we can store that water, but it wont be from the share of Sindh or Balochistan or from any other province, however, it will provide water to all the provinces, as stated previously there are projects like Kachi canal, Rainee Canal, Indus right bank canal etc. and we would need additional water for them. As regards Greater Thal Canal, this project is on air since 1980s that’s why it was agreed during 1991 Accord that provinces can launch projects utilizing water from their own sources During the year 1999-2000, the total irrigated area, using all sources available in the Punjab, was of the order of 13.8 million hectares. This included 11 million hectares in the canal commands. The private tubewells and wells irrigated 6.8 million acres during the same period. During the year 1999-2000, the total irrigated area, using all sources in Sindh, was of the order of 3.52 million hectares. This included 2.39 million hectares of irrigated land in the canal commands. The private tubewells and wells irrigated 0.13million hectares during the same period. However, during the kharif periods from 1990-2000, Punjab used 34.3 MAF annually, while Sindh and Balochistan used 31.4 MAF and NWFP used 2.35 MAF. Look in Punjab about 11 million hectares was irrigated from 34 MAF and in Sindh about 2.39 million hectares was irrigated from appx 29 MAF. Hmmmmm (iv) ii). As stated at Para-2 above, about 39 MAF is being wasted in the sea and as opined by Sindh during 1991 Accord that approx. 10 MAF is required to stop sea intrusion, so remaining water is 29 MAF. Further, I had seen in an article by some Sindhi person, that according to IUCN the water level required to evade sea intrusion is 27 MAF, if consider this ration than we also have 12 MAF water to feed the Kalabagh dam. (v) >> There is no surplus water. However, let me agree for a while that there is. Well be informed that the 1991 Accords were never in the favour of Sindh (Punjab even tried to inactivate it and replace it with their Ministerial Accord 1994, but failed). 10MAF is indeed insufficient to stop the intrusion. Regarding that Sindhi person, I wonder if he was a Pakistani who doesn't want the development of his country. He emphasized on preservation of nature, which should be our top most priority. The Sindhi person quoted the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN). I am quite confused to figure out that who is more competent enough to decide good or bad, our throne-thirsty government or that world class International Union. Dear, if we stop the flow of fresh water in to the sea, the damages will be more horrendous. We are trying to mess up with a natural cycle. The consequences will be; extensive salinity of water; and degradation of land, mangroves and fisheries. Already, millions of acres of fertile land have been rendered barren due to this intrusion. I don't know why we want more cultivation at the cost of degradation of land in Sindh. The so-called well-wishers don't know that due to the sea-intrusion the country is suffering severe economic damage. Amazingly it is claimed that the dam will contribute to the growth of the country. I laugh at those people. (vi) ----- Dear me too agreed IUCN data as mentioned at H (iv) above, but if the 27 MAF is required indeed at that case we do have 12 MAF (average) easily and for Kalabagh we need maximum of 6 MAF. Let me tell you another thing, in Rabi we only have 4-6 MAF going to sea, nd for sustained movement of fresh water we also need a reservoir from where fresh water could be sent to sea for good environment. (vii) >> We are trying to create wheat at the cost of water, notwithstanding, that we can live weeks without food but not more than a day or two without water. Wheat can be imported, but water can’t be. (viii) ---- Dear that water would also be conserved it wont be wasted. (ix) iii). The Salaiba are the areas around the river bed and are fed by moisture in the soil during flood season. However, many farmers are already using water pumps/tube wells for cultivating these areas. The extra water in shape of small flooding will be there, which can easily feed the Sailaba areas. (x) >> More than 40% (official claim) of Sindh's water is saline. I don’t know whether the water in those areas is capable of cultivating lands. However, I think inundation lands can be cultivated through floods only (not sure). Well, small floods will be stored in the dams on the way before reaching the lands that can cultivate those lands. And we can't wait for super floods every 5th year or more, to come and quench the thirst of those lands. (xi) ------ Yes the Sindhs underground water is saline, but if the water table increases salts start accumulating on the surface, whereas if we flush out water through tube wells the salts cant come up through water table evaporation and salinity or sodicity cannot arise (xii) v). Mangrove forests cover an important area in the Indus Delta spreading from Karachi in the west to Rann of Kutch in the east and majority of its consist of a salt tolerant variety. The reduction in mangroves is due to many reasons like frequency of tidal inundation and uncontrolled overgrazing and cutting due to extreme population pressure of Karachi. For reviving the mangrove forests, persistent effort is required for replanting salt tolerant varieties in the area. (xiii) >> I don't know if they are really salt tolerant. The rest of your ideas about the reduction in mangrove forests are agreed on. They are totally true. And I am personally ignorant about their irrigation method. I don't know if they can be only supplied water through the Indus Delta or the sea water can work. As soon I'm competent enough in this concerned area, I will discuss more about it. However salt tolerant varieties exist and you are right to say that they should be planted. (xiv) ------ At present only one species is in Indus Delta and that is salt tolerant. (xv) vi) The statistical data shows that the production of fish has been constantly increasing, as such no problem. Further, fresh water supply in winter will assure good quality of water in the rivers and more fish. (xvi) >> Ha-ha... Show me that statistical data. Fresh water in winter, how do you assure that the water will flow down in winter? You missed to talk about the quality of fish. I can present my own experience here. The quality of Fish in Sanghar is excellent since it receives fresh water. However, the fish of Hyderabad is pathetic in quality and it’s all because it doesn’t receive fresh water. You forgot that we're suffering several embargoes for Fish export due to the filthy quality. (xvii) ----- me not wel versant with this issue. However according to Economic Survey of Pakistan 2004-05 the fish production was 573,600 M tons in 2004-05 whereas it was 566,200 M tons during 2003-04 --------------------------------------------------------------- H (i) 13. The Kalabagh Dam project has converted into a favourite punching bag of many politicians who use this as their weapon against maligning the government. The Benazir was initially against the project but after assuming power, she favoured the cause. The same is the case with ANP etc. they favoured the project when in power in alliance with PML (N) and now they are again opposing the project. (ii) >> What do you actually mean by maligning the Government? We had several regimes in between the proposal of the dam and today. I wonder if this was always used as a weapon of so-called maligning EVERY government. And astonishing is the fact that it’s the only project used as cherry-blossom, why not the other dams. NWFP, Balochistan and Sindh are not opposed to the construction of dams. Go build Skardu, Bhasha and Katzara, there is no problem. Katzara is the best choice. I will explain in the end, how ! I am least concerned about those politicians. Are they trustworthy/sincere enough to be quoted? By the way, opposition is backed up by technical experts like Idrees Rajput (Sindh), Fatehullah Khan (NWFP) etc. And these people have nothing to do with politics. Kalabagh dam is a lollypop to Punjab by Musharraf. It’s a gesture of gratitude, because he was given a positive vote from the Punjab Assembly to retain his uniform as long as he wanted and unfortunately Sindh didn't please him at that stance. (iii) ----------- Hmmmm dear if the Kalabagh dam is a lollypop by Musharaf, than why the project remained in proposals since 1953, perhaps at that Musharaf would be doing something in his school. As regards Kalabagh, numerous studies have been carried out both by foreign and Pakistani consultants like Chas T. Main, Hazra, Pieter Lieftnick (WB), Montreal Engg. Company (MECO), A.C.E, Wapda etc. And as per Iqtidar H. Siddiqui, who was associated with water resources in Pakistan from 167 upto 1988, there was no proposal about Katzarah even on lips at that period ------------------------------------------------------------------- J (i) 14. The Government has proposed many mega projects in all the provinces like Right Bank Canal for Gomal region, Rainee and Kachi Canal for Sindh and Balochistan and the Greater Thal Canal in Punjab, which is not a new project in a sense that it was also on board during Water Accord of 1991. Certainly surplus water would be required to feed these channels. (ii) >> He he... the favourite point. Here I can present one of the instances of Punjab's treacherous attitude. Yes, you're thinking right, it’s the Chenab-Jehlum Canal. Previously while its construction was on the way, Sindh was assured that water will be drawn into that canal only when there will be surplus. However today we see them diverting water even at the times of drought. Isn't this injustice? Now they are building (maybe have built ) The Greater Thal canal. Sindh has the same reservations again. Let’s see who wins. It’s really unlucky to be a lower-riparian. (iii) ----- Hmmmm regarding Chenab-Jehlum link canal, haa haaa, dear do you know - the upper Chenab link Canal was first to be constructed and that was in 1912, to flow water from Chenab to Ravi - the upper Jehlum –Chenab link canals was constructed in 1915 to give water to chenab from jehlum and at that time there was no problem between upper and lower riparian As regards Greater Thal Canal, it has been explained at H (iii) above. -------------------------------------------------------------- K (i) 15. However, there are indeed some points in minds of provinces which need to be cleared with them prior to finalizing any thing and technicalities of the project should deliberated upon instead of clamoring. (ii) >> I agree with you here. Some points of the affected parties may be fabricated or exaggerated but, irrespective of all that, they must be heeded. They are integral units of this country. Consensus must be achieved. The assemblies of these provinces have passed more than 7 resolutions against the dam. Building the dam is no doubt based on the assumption that three out of four provinces and more than 70 million people, who do not want the dam, are totally ignorant and do not know what is good for them. It’s undemocratic. Para-6 of Water Accords 1991 demands written consensus for the construction of a dam. It’s against the law to authoritatively proceed with such a controversial dam. Is Musharraf or Punjab above the law? And, for your kind information, World Bank won’t finance the project until consensus is achieved. (iii) ------ Dear me totally agree that Kalabagh must not be built till consensus is arrived Hmmmmm, dear para 6 of 1991 Accord reads as under : ‘’’’’6. The need for storages, wherever feasible on the Indus and other rivers was admitted and recognized by the participants for planned future agricultural development.’’’’’ Again for Musharaf please read at H (iii) -------------------------------------------------------------- L (i) 16. We need water for our future uses i.e. domestic/industrial requirements. For saving water the channels already in operation should be lined so that minimum loss occur due to percolation/seepage, on this the government has taken up in the matter but major is required to be done. (ii) >> Well, your points are absolutely right here. You have correctly objected the efficiency of channels. In my opinion, we should prefer efficiency over new projects. I have even come to know that our present dams aren't being used to the full storage capacity today? What will we do of this Kalabagh Dam? Musharraf is trying to build a bath tub for him and his ministers . (iii) ------- At present we do have three reservoirs 1) Tarbella 2) Mangla 3) Chashma, and these are utilized at their full storage and this is the reason that Mangla raising project is in the way. Haa haaa, Bhai let Musharraf to consider the official business instead of having a big bath tub (iv) I have some more points. This time I can oppose the dam openly because you've taken the Punjabi (ha-ha) stance: 1) We don't have storage water. 2) Presently our debt stands at $35 billion. If we take $10 billion more it will rise to $45 billion and we will be further indebted. Let’s break the shinning begging bowl now. Let’s build small dams, with our own wherewithal and be care-free. 3) Kalabagh dam will be silted quite fast and it has a lifetime of 20 years only. 4) It has a very short life and a very big cost. 5) Its not a flood-control dam 6) IRSA has disapproved the dam. 7) EIA is a study which identifies and quantifies the benefits as well as the adverse effects of a project. It also recommends controlling measures to minimize the adverse effects. EIA is, in fact, a tool for the competent authority to facilitate his decision. It is for the competent authority to decide whether the residual adverse effects after mitigation are acceptable. You would be surprised to know that EIA has not been carried out even for large projects of national importance. For example, it was not done for the Kalabagh Dam project along with the feasibility studies, and Wapda, on its own, proceeded to the final design stage. 8) Experts are highly opposed to mega projects 9) We must understand that we can't produce water. We should try to conserve nature to keep the supply running. (v) step by step, 1 in this Clause would only referring to 1 in Sub section (iv) of L above ----------------- 1) hmmm, acha jee, but if we let about 25 MAF to flow to sea we could have 12-14 MAF easily 2) sure Munda dam, Mirani Dam Gomal Zam Dam etc. these al r small dam projects, but remember small dams cannot be considered as compared to big dam As regards cost involved in the project, please note that the total expenditure incurred by the Government of Pakistan, up to June 2000, for the proposed Kalabagh Dam Project is Rs. 1,216.5 million. However, as per studies in 2000 ,when built the average annual benefit of Dam would be : Annual Power Benefits : Rs.25.5 billion Annual Irrigation Benefits : Rs.3.5 billion Annual Flood alleviation benefits : Rs.0.7 billion Total : 29.7 billion 3) hmmm who says that the dam would have 20 years lifetime, don’t be kidding 5) dear it can easily control flood like which ruined many lands in the lowers Punjab nd upper sindh this year, the kalabagh can decrease the devastation 6) who says that IRSA has disapproved the dam 7) don’t know about it 8) who experts Engr Fatehullah Khan, plz read the H (iii) above, many international reputed agencies has carried out studies and approved the project 9) sure we should conserve water, nd it can only be conserved when we store it, which can only be done through dams (vi) You know the Baglihar Dam Issue. Be informed that India is totally justified to build that dam on Chenab since it has some share in the western rivers according to the Indus Basin Treaty 1960. Actually Pakistan fears that India would encroach upon the rights of her water share after building the dam. And the condition is exactly the same inside the country. Sindh has the same reservations against Punjab. It’s disheartening to know that Pakistan can't bear injustice at the hands of an outsider but is unresponsive to the cries of one of its dear province (vii) ---- dear plz go through the contents of Indus Water Treaty 1960, India is not justified to build dam like Baglihar this is the reason that Salal Dam project was also stopped dear Pakistan contains all the provinces so plz don’t mix this with the inter-provincial issues. (viii) After all this, if a dam is indispensable. Build Katzara dam. According to my studies, it’s the best replacement! For further information pickup the "Economics and Business" pages of this Monday and read the topic "Choosing the right dam" by "Fatehullah Khan" who is a senior engineer and ex-chairman IRSA. I am presenting the basic points below: Katzara The dam will generate 15,000 MW of environment-friendly power and avoid equivalent thermal power generation. This will help prevent global warming and improve the environment. It will change the landscape of the country by turning barren and desert like areas into a green landscape. Katzarah will have six times the storage capacity of Basha or Kalabagh at the same cost. Mind this point; the storage capacity will be 36MAF at the same cost. It can be filled by super floods and no danger of destruction. It will control super floods in the Indus due to global warming and reduce the adverse backwater flow and flooding in the Kabul River in the Peshawar valley from Indus water due to heading up at the narrow Attock gorge. It will save 35 MAF of floodwater (until super floods arise and there is waste water) going waste to sea each year and provide irrigation facilities for about 10 million acres (5 times more cultivation than Kalabagh) of barren land in the four provinces. Let it be clear that the mid-level sluicing Kalabagh according to its design and operation is not a flood control dam at all as it will be empty and will be on run-of-river from June 1 to July 20. Katzara Dam alone can save all the dams on the way from silting. Built Bhasha after Katzara and it will last 800 years. I personally have no allegiance to any political party. I am simply a well-wisher of Pakistan. My province "Sindh" exists with Pakistan. I am identified as a Pakistani (Though I derive my nationality). (ix) ------------- Dear brother, this is the worst mistake you would have committed ever As evident from above lines, the main point of view to protest Kalabagh having 6.1 MAF is availability of water, and now you are proposing Katzarah having 35 MAF hmmm !!!! The dam will destroy great natural ecosystems/habitats in the northern areas, which provide home to many endangered species The dam is located very near to the artillery fire range of India, which can easily blow it up. Kalabagh is a contention between the provinces, but katzarah would be a contention with northern areas, nd you would be well informed of the constitutional status of northern areas Historical city of Skardu would totally be submerged including its run way Nd the road network of Ghanche and Baltistan districts of Northern areas would be destroyed My dear brother katzarah could b a dam for the fairies but not for humans Perhaps these are some points against the idea of katzarah dam -------------------------------------------------------- Views/comments are welcomed, dear Adil if you feel discomfort at any point plz don’t fuss about it, I made the points as I was communicating to my brother, b free for any of further discussion in the matter |
Salaam,
Brother Tabassum, you have done a real great job. I appreciate. You've stuck me well, truly speaking, it's getting on my nerves. Anyways... i'll handle it this time... once and for all :D Regards, Adil Memon Expect a reply within the week after Eid. Thanks for taking the discussion to a higher level! (Eid Mubarrak) |
AoA
dear Adil, dont fuss about it nd dnt take it to your nerves we need major dams particularly for storing water for its usage during odd months, it is certain, whether we construct Kalabagh, Bhasha or Katzarah, but the consensus must be there and the feasibilty study of the project deem it to be a feasible project proposal we must think beyond boundaries of provinces, if consensus + techincal approval is achieved on Bhasha then the Government ought to construct bhasha well i m not in fully favour of Kalabagh or against Bhasha or Katzarah, for Kalabagh its feasibity study has been started since 50s, so its benefits nd drawbacks have been deliberated considerably it is the matter of tme, which will prove appropriateness of a project, lets say about tarbella, its project was initially completed in perhaps 1974, but faults emerged nd it stop operating nd again started operations in 1976, so time is the best judger |
Salaam,
Brother I really appreciate the endeavours you’re taking to prove your stance. I have deleted all those paragraphs on which I agree/compromise to curtail the size of this reply. My replies will be in BOLD font. The water availability is indeed unreliable. The highest annual water availability in the recorded history (from 1922 todate) was 187 MAF (million acre feet) in the year 1959-60 as against the minimum of 96 MAF in the year 2001-2002, which averages to 141 MAF, however, from 1975 to date the water discharge on average is 145 MAF, please note that this do not include the highest available water in recorded history, but includes the lowest annual water availability. [B]Thank you very much for bringing in this detail here. This is the crux of contention. We were needlessly arguing over the technical specification when I was supposed to clear this point in the very beginning. I agree with your data about the highest and lowest flow. But your average seems to be a little perplexing. According to the calculation from my statistics (The Politics of Managing Water – Kaiser Bengali, pp. 184-185) the average annual flow stands 137MAF. (Note: This figure includes the super floods that occur every 5th year). In all its calculations of availability of water, WAPDA has insisted on using average flow i.e. 137.27MAF to justify Kalabagh Dam. However this is a transitory position. And a big project like Kalabagh can’t be based on transitory data. The internationally accepted legal percept by which water availability should be calculated is explained by the United States Supreme Court, which has had to adjudicate on some extremely complex inter-state water disputes. In the case Wyoming v. Colorado (1922), the State of Wyoming sought to prevent the State of Colorado and two Colorado corporations from diverting the waters of the inter-state River Laramie. When the State of Colorado presented annual average flow figures as the measure of available supply of water, the US Supreme Court pronounced thus: “To be available in a practical sense, the supply must be fairly continuous and dependable…. Crops cannot be grown on expectations of average flows which do not come, nor on recollections of unusual flows which have passed down the stream prior in years. Only when the water is actually applied does the soil respond.” For the purpose of computation, the United States Supreme Court neither adopted the average over a long period nor the minimum, but the lowest average of any two successive years, excluding years of exceptionally low flow. Now if this case is applied to Kalabagh Dam, the US Supreme Court ruling would have been worded thus: ‘To be available in a practical sense, the supply must be fairly continuous and dependable…. Storage dams can not be filled on expectations of average flows which do not come, nor on recollections of unusual flows which have passed down the stream in previous years.’ The criteria for filling the exorbitantly costly 8-10 billion dollar Kalabagh Dam should, therefore, be the same as elucidated by the US Supreme Court, i.e. the lowest average of any two successive years, excluding the years of exceptionally low flow. Right in front of my eyes I have a table of Annual Western River Inflows which you can get in (The Politics of Managing Water – edited by Kaiser Bengali, pp. 184-185). I have calculated on the above mentioned criteria the legal figure which stands at 124.4 MAF. Now this is very close to the “4 out of 5” figure 123.59 MAF calculated by excluding the flooding years. Thus I will be holding the “four out of five” years calculation method as the standard one. Now before attempting to calculate the available water for Kalabagh, it would be pertinent to introduce the elements of system losses due to percolation in the riverbeds between the rim stations and various barrages. Rim stations are points in the river where measurements regarding the water available during Kharif and Rabi are taken by officially designated authorities. The rim stations for Indus, Jhelum and Chenab are situated at Kalabagh, Mangla and Marala respectively. In this respect, annual average system losses are estimated at 15.19 MAF. The arithmetic of water availability can be attempted as: Water requirement: 139.54 MAF (Details) Allocation to four provinces: 114.35 MAF (taking your figure) System Losses: 15.19 MAF Release below Kotri for outflow to sea: 10 MAF Water available: 123.59 MAF The balance to store in Kalabagh Dam is -15.95 MAF. That means we already lack that amount of water. Uses of that alleged 35MAF of Water downstream Kotri: 1) Stop sea intrusion 2) Mangrove forests cultivation (the forests that are out of the reach of Sea) 3) Agriculture downstream kotri 4) Drinking and sanitation water for 120000 people (200 villages). The figure won’t be that 35MAF in near future. I have already discussed this point in my essay. [/B] Dear we get extra electricity generation only for small period of time i.e. in high water available months, whereas in remaining months we are in short of electricity that’s why we face load shedding. As per studies, the cost of one unit of hydel power is 8-10 times less than cost of other power generating resources like gas or coal. Further, we are boosting industrial sector, which indeed require cheap source of energy and that is only hydel power. [B] Capital costs escalate once social displacement and environmental degradation are taken into view. The energy generated won’t be cheap due to lack of concessional funding. Let me tell you something here. Economic growths are always boosted at the cost of nature. And this is what India and China are presently doing. Today they are the world’s biggest polluting countries. Recently, when I had the pleasure to watch “BBC News Extra” which was based on different aspects of Indian economy and development, I saw the country’s best environmentalist raising concerns about nature. By stating all this I do not mean that I am against Economic Growth. All I want to say is that we must work on efficiency at the first priority. [/B] Dear the majority of part where the dam is proposed comprise of barren hilly or sub-hilly tracts and these areas are sparsely populated so perhaps nothing to be worried. The overalls cost involved in rehabilitation of people had been mentioned in the feasibility, and it would definitely be revised when the dam is to be finalized as such the people would get the land price of that day. [B] I appreciate your response here. Leaving aside everything else, you didn’t touch the most important point is that of lack of trust. You did not mention what should NWFP do if she does not trust Central Government for its safeguards and rehabilitation plan. The people of Tarbela were humiliated – do you have anything to say about this? Bhai, imagine if I build a dam in your house and pay you the full price of your house and land. Will you leave that place? [/B] Hmmm brother the problem of distribution of water, perhaps first time rose in 1945, any how, the maximum storage level of Tarbela at one time is 9 MAF it does not mean that whole year the dam stores 9 MAF, and the share increased for the Sindh is 9 MAF for the whole year, nd specifically during the odd months i.e. Rabi season the Sindh got more water. As such the share of water increased. [B]Water flow is quite low in Rabi so surely there is no storage during those months. The water is stored during the months of Kharif only and delivered during the months of Rabi. I don’t know how is it possible for a dam that stores 9MAF in Kharif and delivers that quantity in Rabi to increase the share of Sindh by its total quantity doing nothing for the other provinces. [/B] During the year 1999-2000, the total irrigated area, using all sources available in the Punjab, was of the order of 13.8 million hectares. This included 11 million hectares in the canal commands. The private tubewells and wells irrigated 6.8 million acres during the same period. During the year 1999-2000, the total irrigated area, using all sources in Sindh, was of the order of 3.52 million hectares. This included 2.39 million hectares of irrigated land in the canal commands. The private tubewells and wells irrigated 0.13million hectares during the same period. However, during the kharif periods from 1990-2000, Punjab used 34.3 MAF annually, while Sindh and Balochistan used 31.4 MAF and NWFP used 2.35 MAF. Look in Punjab about 11 million hectares was irrigated from 34 MAF and in Sindh about 2.39 million hectares was irrigated from appx 29 MAF. Hmmmmm [B] Why don’t you say it clearly that you don’t want to release any water to Sindh (hahahaha)? I am knowledgeless about your statistics. However, I wonder how could a province that used to feed the whole sub-continent during the days of British, yield so less today. You know better that Sindh’s land has been/is being degraded due to lack of water. The water share of Sindh is not only used for irrigation but also for drinking and other purposes. Punjab has more than 350,000 tubewells through which it draws 40MAF annually. It has a huge rainfall compared to Sindh. I don’t really understand what are you trying to prove here :D? Shaheen Rafi Khan, SPDI, Islamabad, states in (The Managing of Water Politics – edited by Kaiser Bengali, pp. 176-177) that we do not have extra land for extensive cultivation. My Uncle, an officer of Revenue Dept. states that according to law we can not cultivate more than 30% of the cultivable land. And Shaheen may be right. We might have reached the limit. [/B] Dear me too agreed IUCN data as mentioned at H (iv) above, but if the 27 MAF is required indeed at that case we do have 12 MAF (average) easily and for Kalabagh we need maximum of 6 MAF. Let me tell you another thing, in Rabi we only have 4-6 MAF going to sea, and for sustained movement of fresh water we also need a reservoir from where fresh water could be sent to sea for good environment. [B]Ok!! Now release that 27 MAF from your alleged 39 MAF into the sea. 12 MAF remain. Now read my above calculation regarding water availability. Do you think we will have water to store in kalabagh in future? [/B] At present only one species is in Indus Delta and that is salt tolerant. [B]I explored more about this issue. Actually the problem is about reach of water. The sea water can’t reach some areas to cultivate mangrove forests. They can be reached by the downstream water only. [/B] Hmmmm dear if the Kalabagh dam is a lollypop by Musharaf, than why the project remained in proposals since 1953, perhaps at that Musharaf would be doing something in his school. [B] The dam hasn’t been built yet. Musharraf has given a green signal for the construction due to the above mentioned reason. You will find me pathetic if you read this with closed eyes :D. And the ruling elite in the Central Government (since the inception of Pakistan) has always been replete with Punjabis. NO MORE COMMENTS! But you still did not tell me why are people against Kalabagh Dam if they really have no problems? What don’t they fight over other dams? You know that we don’t have any provincial harmony. Why are Sindh, Balochistan and NWFP altogether against the dam? I want to know why? [/B] As regards Kalabagh, numerous studies have been carried out both by foreign and Pakistani consultants like Chas T. Main, Hazra, Pieter Lieftnick (WB), Montreal Engg. Company (MECO), A.C.E, Wapda etc. [B]I mentioned the names of technicians of Pakistan that backed the opposition behind the politicians. The people and institutions you have mentioned, don’t run Pakistan. It’s the politicians that rule the government. When politicians of three out of four provinces have given a NO vote on the dam it should have been dropped forthwith.[/B] Hmmmm regarding Chenab-Jehlum link canal, haa haaa, dear do you know - the upper Chenab link Canal was first to be constructed and that was in 1912, to flow water from Chenab to Ravi - the upper Jehlum –Chenab link canals was constructed in 1915 to give water to chenab from jehlum and at that time there was no problem between upper and lower riparian As regards Greater Thal Canal, it has been explained at H (iii) above. [B] Sorry… actually I mis-spelled the word. It was Chasma not Chenab. Do you have to say anything about it now. All my above mentioned assertions are accepted country-wide. Let me see how do you refute them? If you are really anxious to know about Punjab’s dealing with Sindh in the past please refer “Sindh-Punjab Water Dispute” – Rasool Bux Palijo (RBS). The book is written over 110+ pages, you will be able to finish it within a day or two. It’s a nice book. [/B] At present we do have three reservoirs 1) Tarbella 2) Mangla 3) Chashma, and these are utilized at their full storage and this is the reason that Mangla raising project is in the way. Haa haaa, Bhai let Musharraf to consider the official business instead of having a big bath tub [B] Difference in sources/statistics. Leave it right here! (Fun part) Bhai just imagine Musharraf and his wife swimming in Kalabagh Dam. How would it look like :D? [/B] 1) hmmm, acha jee, but if we let about 25 MAF to flow to sea we could have 12-14 MAF easily [B] I don’t agree that we have any surplus water. [/B] 2) sure Munda dam, Mirani Dam Gomal Zam Dam etc. these al r small dam projects, but remember small dams cannot be considered as compared to big dam [B] We don’t have the resources to manage large dams. [/B] As regards cost involved in the project, please note that the total expenditure incurred by the Government of Pakistan, up to June 2000, for the proposed Kalabagh Dam Project is Rs. 1,216.5 million. However, as per studies in 2000 ,when built the average annual benefit of Dam would be : Annual Power Benefits : Rs.25.5 billion Annual Irrigation Benefits : Rs.3.5 billion Annual Flood alleviation benefits : Rs.0.7 billion Total : 29.7 billion [B] Abrar Kazi, Water expert, stands the cost of Kalabagh at 8-10 billion dollars, which is nearly 480 – 600 BILLION Rupees. I don’t know about your source. Dams only yield benefits if they are filled with water. Empty dams don’t serve any purpose. Kalabagh Dam is not a flood-control dam according to Fatehullah Khan. [/B] 3) hmmm who says that the dam would have 20 years lifetime, don’t be kidding [B]I learnt that Kalabagh dam is situated at a site where it will be silted/sedimented quite fast. And it’s overall lifetime will be only 20 years. My knowledge is all based on media. It may be fabricated so I won’t be consistent on this assessment. [/B] 5) dear it can easily control flood like which ruined many lands in the lowers Punjab nd upper sindh this year, the kalabagh can decrease the devastation [B] Fatehullah Khan says Kalabagh Dam is not a flood-control dam. [/B] 6) who says that IRSA has disapproved the dam [B] [Khuda ki Kassam :D] I read this somewhere. I will disclose the source as soon as I recall it. [/B] 7) don’t know about it (EIA STUDY) [B] Don’t say that you don’t know. Because to know, is your responsibility :D.[/B] 8) who experts Engr Fatehullah Khan, plz read the H (iii) above, many international reputed agencies has carried out studies and approved the project [B] I did not say Experts are opposed to Kalabagh Dam. I said, ‘mega projects’. Tell me if you disagree with me here? [/B] 9) We must understand that we can't produce water. We should try to conserve nature to keep the supply running. 9) sure we should conserve water, nd it can only be conserved when we store it, which can only be done through dams [B] We don’t have water to conserve. By conserving nature I meant maintaining a steady flow into the sea so that the natural cycle works fine. [/B] You know the Baglihar Dam Issue. Be informed that India is totally justified to build that dam on Chenab since it has some share in the western rivers according to the Indus Basin Treaty 1960. Actually Pakistan fears that India would encroach upon the rights of her water share after building the dam. And the condition is exactly the same inside the country. Sindh has the same reservations against Punjab. It’s disheartening to know that Pakistan can't bear injustice at the hands of an outsider but is unresponsive to the cries of one of its dear province (vii) ---- dear plz go through the contents of Indus Water Treaty 1960, India is not justified to build dam like Baglihar this is the reason that Salal Dam project was also stopped [B] Baglihar Dam: Though I stay consistent at my words, but I will avoid any confrontation on this matter right now. Leave it for future. In the interim, you can come up with the clauses/sections of the IBT which are being violated. [/B] Dear brother, this is the worst mistake you would have committed ever (regarding Katzara Dam) [B]Haha… you don’t have any objections to Kalabagh Dam but you’re strictly opposed to Katzara which will store six times more quantity of water within the same cost. This dam will efficiently control FLOODS which Kalabagh won’t. If you think Kalabagh dam will be replete with water why don’t we store the same 6.1 MAF in Katzara. Darling.. every dam destroys the eco-system. Kalabagh also does that. You care about the endangered species of animals but not about those 100,000+ humans that will be dislocated (to be outspoken, humiliated). Nothing is beyond the reach of India. Bhasha is also proposed near Katzara. I don’t think that dams are proposed without considering these things. Is Pakistan beyond the reach of India :D. You are afraid of the conflict within Northern Areas, but you don’t care if the country is being disintegrated after building Kalabagh Dam. Well brother, in the end I have only one point to say. We don’t have enough water to store. Building dams will only increase debt. Clincher: Build Kalabagh but after achieving consensus. I hope the discussion has been enough on this topic. Let’s drop it! Big authorities of our country have failed to reach a consensus so surely that won’t be possible for you and me too. If it’s not possible for you… I unconditionally surrender! Go build it :D. Regards, Adil Memon (Please don’t ever get offended. I am just like your younger brother.) Agar koi baat buri laggi ho to ghareeb samajh kar mauf kar dena.[/B] |
AOA
dear i always tried to make my points considering you my at place of my younger brother, u c we r four brother by the grace of Allah and v r trained by our parents in such a way that we r the best frined of each other, so i suppose that i have placed u at the position of a friend as well me too dont think to linger more any how, dear whatsoever is the business of state, mind it that u r opposing Kalabagh dam on the contention of low water availability but then u support Katzarah, so if u r opposing kalabagh dam on other footings then support Katzarah or Bhasha other wise no need to do it just support small dams well there r some other reasons to opose Kalabagh like - it can destroy the salt mines in salt range - several oil and gas plants would be submerged under water - the sedimentation rate is high, this is not bcoz of Indus, but bcoz of Soan and Kabul rivers - though politicians r not related to any engineering work, but there views should b taken considering them public representatives nd if consensus is emerged then it is okay however, the priority should b conserve the existing water nd if u remember i mentioned that about 60 % of water is wasted from their journey from canal heads to fields, v must save it nd can utilize it optimally ny how, have a very nice day, may Allah bless you |
Salaam,
Brother. Thank you for ending it. Regarding my suggestion about Katzara, brother you did not see that I said "IF A DAM IS INDISPENSABLE" then build Katzara. I am against every dam. Bhai... you've earned more plus points in my heart. I did not ever know you could be this kind to me! I love you yaar :D Regards, Adil Memon UPDATES: ONE MORE NEGATIVE POINT OF A DAM Naturally flowing water contains nutrients, which strengthens the land and gives a better yield. Dams store those nutrients in themselves and the lands don't get them! |
My views!!!
[FONT=Trebuchet MS]It would have been more appropriate if this issue was discussed in Discussion..
I am really impressed by ur views on KBD .. @Adil...Hey dont think girls have no idea and lack techincal aspects just cuz they have declare ur essay as pro-Sindh...i would have loved the essay if u had written the essay considering whats dam supporters say and then nipping them in buds about their thinking ... ------------------------------------------- Here my own questions and opinion ------------------------------------------- 1.I wonder if mountains are affected by earthquakes as much as ordinary plains. If they are not, dams could be built up there! Yep look at Allai valley and what the EQ have done to drinking water in EQ affected areas :( 2.Secondly you say that you have no concern with Balighar dam! Am I right because its a government matter..Are u a pakistani?If u are so concerned abt sindh rights then why not abt pakistan? 3.Is there any need for Basha?After reading ur material regarding KBD if we donot afford it because of multiple reasons in which sindh could be affected then how can Basha help here..What would be it purpose of development..Just to lose money..We are already w/o money cuz we have to repay soft loans granted to us in Donar conference and we are more in need to buy VVIP planes and early warning systems and offcourse F-16's.. 4.In one of your post you mention that we have enough even surplus energy(mentioned by PM)then why sindh suffer most loadshedding? 5.I wonder how u agree that we can import wheat?Dear look at the population?It seem we are going to be a poorest country soon..having no money in hand (as industry and investment required continuous water/energy and we are not thinking of supplying them enough water) and asking for wheat..Huhh sounds really scary Regarding building dams..well I am against them environmently but in favour of them considering development issues.Its my dream to see pakistan on top of world and for this we have to adopt give and take strategy.One cannot enjoy all the stuff without giving something from his pocket unless he is a king :P.Iss hath day us hath lay is the best option available.I am just amazed at Indian clever antics they build balighar and then started Iran gas pipeline..If pakistan dare to close gas pipeline they are ready to close pakistan water..Is it allowed in Indus water treaty(I know none about it plz elobrate me)...If cons cost more than pro then I am against dams else I am supporter of dams...:) After reading many articles written w.r.t pros and cons i have never saw a article written from neutral point of view showing the costs..Hoping to read one soon...I need a just view not pro and cons [/FONT] |
Salaam,
Sister Aaminah, you seem to have taken my female-bashing seriously. I never meant them by heart. It's just a prank I keep playing on the forum. (Saba is a friend. You can confirm it.) Thanks for the feedback on my essay. Actually if you cast a glance over the date of my post you would realise that it's not a recent one. I wrote it when it was crushed down in the botton in govt's agenda. It was virtually impossible for me to mention the viewpoints of people when the matter was not even been discussed in the newspapers. The responses to your queries are as follow: 1.I wonder if mountains are affected by earthquakes as much as ordinary plains. If they are not, dams could be built up there! Yep look at Allai valley and what the EQ have done to drinking water in EQ affected areas >> Actually one of the biggest problem in constructing a dam is arranging the site and dislocating people and their sources of income. If a dam could be constructed in the Mountains, it would be the best best place due to absence of any harrassment caused to people. I wasn't sure. Thanks for confirming it. 2.Secondly you say that you have no concern with Balighar dam! Am I right because its a government matter..Are u a pakistani?If u are so concerned abt sindh rights then why not abt pakistan? >> I actually feel that I had committed a mistake while I was answering that. I even thought of re-editing the thread and changing my answer but found it useless since the matter had been dead. I should have said that people lack the spirit of nationalism and are more inclined towards regionalism. I mean this for not one, not two, not three, but all the four provinces. We really don't have a meaningful noteworthy group of nationalists in this country. (Mind you, Nationalists and Regionalists are not the same.) I apologize for this grave mistake, to you and dear brother Naveed. 3.Is there any need for Basha?After reading ur material regarding KBD if we donot afford it because of multiple reasons in which sindh could be affected then how can Basha help here..What would be it purpose of development..Just to lose money..We are already w/o money cuz we have to repay soft loans granted to us in Donar conference and we are more in need to buy VVIP planes and early warning systems and offcourse F-16's.. Sister, you would have noticed that the President is hell bent on Kalabagh first when the rest of the country wants others first. I don't exactly understand what's the problem with building either bhasha, skardu or any other dam first rather than Kalabagh. If you have really studied Kalabagh dam that much it would be in your knowledge that the project seems to be costlier than the other dams. It requires more land and more dislocation. The President has pulled out this rabbit from his hat because he knows that 2007 elections are approaching fast and he wants the vote of the majority province (Punjab) to get re-elected. The Kalabagh dam will ofcourse please the people of Punjab. Regarding the money issue, you would be apprised that we already had $25 Billion dollars of debt on us before the Earthquake. After the earthquake we had to take something like $4 Billion (Soft loans or loans is exactly the same thing... it's just like throwing sand in one's eye). Besides that... we're going to buy F-16s and AWACs etc. Ok - Leave this aside. We already have something like $29 billion debt on us. If we ask the World Bank to finance three dams which would be costing nearly $30 billion... the debt will be raised to $59. In the end, according to my knowledge of economics we'll be facing severe budget deficits in near future. We will be missing water to store in the dams. They will be useless. One more point.... do you know where is the money from Privatization going? Well, it's being used in debt-servicing and not development. At one hand we're asking for loans - on the other we're trying to pay them. But, in between we're being deprived of our national assets like KESC, PTCL etc. 4.In one of your post you mention that we have enough even surplus energy(mentioned by PM)then why sindh suffer most loadshedding? >> Ask the PM. He announced it himself that we had surplus energy. The problem isn't really about energy deficit as well. I believe if we minimize power losses and pilferage to enhance the quantity of available energy we won't really need any dams. A Wapda official revealed to me that they often practice load-shedding to recover the extra consumption of electricity. This extra consumption is not the paid one... but the stolen one. (I hope it's the answer to your question) We have other resources. I have already named them and they're all possible. The whole world doesn't make dams to fulfill it's energy needs. And when three-out-of-four elected provincial governments are against the dam what's the point in raising the issue. Either we don't have democracy or the people of all the three provinces are fools. You need to agree with one of the statement. Sister Aaminah... people don't really have useless time to waste in political issues. Do you have 3 hours a day to come out and make a propaganda for Kalabagh dam? (Answer it truly) Even the lawyers of Sindh are against the dam. Could you please guess up any possibility what interest do they have in opposing a project in national interest. Tell me one good reason why would the people of three provinces oppose a dam that is in the interest of the country? 5.I wonder how u agree that we can import wheat?Dear look at the population?It seem we are going to be a poorest country soon..having no money in hand (as industry and investment required continuous water/energy and we are not thinking of supplying them enough water) and asking for wheat..Huhh sounds really scary Sister, by that I meant that wheat can be imported but water can't be. It's simple like the people of Sindh do not trust Punjab. And they are afraid of disconnection of water supplies in the times of droughts. If you can eliminate those fears, go build the dam. If not... it would be in the interest of federation to drop the project. (One Sindhi regionalist said that the guarantee we want from the govt. is that if Punjab stops water flow in the times of drought after the construction of KBD, the govt. will have to promise to declare "Sindh" "Independent" of the federation. What do you say about this?) Regarding Baglihar: Actually i've failed to get a clear-cut knowledge from the 1960 Treaty about the Baglihar problem. All I know is that India has some limited right on the three rivers of Pakistan, Indus, Jehlum and Chenab. I guess India is using that provision to construct the dam. I will make sure about this as soon as the topic touches newspaper items. There are many neutral articles in dawn newspaper about Kalabagh Dam everyday. Don't read the letters page. Read the editorials and opinions. They're all neutral. Regards, Adil Memon Actually I don't really have any complains about Punjab. I am a little ill-mannered and aggressive in my language but write what I find correct. According to me KBD isn't feasible. If it is, be it. Till now i've not seen anybody here able to convince me about the const. of Kalabagh Dam. I will wait for those moments. |
Hmm my replies :)
Hmm I am also against his policies...
Where was he for the last 6 years..I think u r quite rite in saying abt campaign issues ..All they wish is to eat Paksitan and have no concern for it real development..I wish we have leader like Hazart Umar and Hazart Umar bin Abdul Aziz..What pains they have gone through...and just look at the rotten lot now...Sahme...I am really ashamed:oooo I agree with you thats it is cost ful project...and esp after so much money promised(only in papers to dislocated ppl) I don't think they could even get the money they put into it.. I agree with the economic issue as well...I think thats why they are willing to sell PTCL to Eisalat at all cost even giving them 5 yrs...:huh: I agree all we need is to economical use of our resources..After all humanity have survived w/o electricity :wacko: Sure!! why not abt the grantee...There should be something more severe than this...but plz keep this issue in just way only...Not to create pandora when all the rules are being followed:D Now.. Sister Aaminah... people don't really have useless time to waste in political issues. Do you have 3 hours a day to come out and make a propaganda for Kalabagh dam? (Answer it truly) Well I may not have 3 hrs for a issue that is in doldrums from 1953 but If i feel something really worthwhile and according to my tastes and satisfying my mind...then I am happy to spend even more than 3 hrs. Thanks a lot for asking my questions!! All the best |
You agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed tooooooooooo much!
Are you insulting me :D? OK Baba... Please don't get angry... Jao bana lo dam. Mein mazaak kar raha thaa! Regards, |
Are u sure!!!
I cant imagine it..
Look ppl I have won :) Thanks Adil...:) |
is that exactly KalaBaghDam issue????
Well..... our leaders and politicians are busy in creating full time disturbance on the name of Poor KalaBaghDam. In this play every body is grinding his own axe. If someone is not getting any thing is the play stage i,e;Pakistan. In this roistering nobody damn cares that in this kinda leading and skipping, the Stage may not damage, someone may not be injured as already we have gone thorugh an experience .Our stage in that play was such a severely broken , didn’t fix then. What was the result? Two Parts later were decorated gracefully.
Using the name of kala bagh dam what is happening i wonder. Majority of resisters is forcoing at the point that KBD will be the main Reason of Sindh Water Blockage, resulting sindh, not to get enough water for her agriculture & also for the sea resistance. This will change a big sindh area into swamp and agriculture squares into deserts. Even the term presented to General Parwaiz Musharraf in the meeting by Sindhi Members of General Assembly under Dr.Abdul Ghaffar (a big time Gov. Supporter), was not about to object or criticize KalaBagh dam , but it ws regarding the [U]dead Lock of Water Supply[/U]. There demand was just that if there is a big suspension of water flow then sindh should be given constitutional opportunity to be freed from the federation.If there are well being intentions and if our Sindhi Brothers are asking for a Guarantee, Let them have it. The actual dispute is not the effects or side effects of Dam. Our leaders got enough mind to understand and am sure they know each and every critical point clearly. The root problem is “The Lack of Trust” . to be very honest the supporters and resisters mostly are not solving but increasing more and more tension. Gen. Parwaiz Musharraf when was especially invited to Sakhar , he addressed to the gathering of around one thousand there. At that time there was not even a single famous personality who opposes dam issue.STRANGE… If you over view the full flat story you will feel that unfortunately this Dam Debate has left the actual dam conspiracy far far away , and have been changed to political fisticuffs. the interesting part is that the political parties supporting this issue have turned against now. I want to say that I feel that ‘KalaBaghDam’ is not the actual and exact issue but the thing bothering our Rulers is “POWER” , “AUTHORITY” . well I suggest that first they should resolve this conflict of Power then move to DAM. I don’t say that General Parwaiz Musharraf and the struggle he is doing don’t have well-intentions towards KBD, but the Home Work he should have done for this cant be seen. Now this story should be prevented and stopped moving towards peak of tension and aggressiveness. As in this situation (which is being created) the political parties who are [U]under pressure [/U]and are [U]being neglected[/U] will surely try to [U]provoc[/U] the Protesting Movements. And [U]when an agitation gets a Power it becomes sometimes out of Control[/U]. Same thing happened in East Pakistan. Situation went out of control. Neither Molana Bhashani could hold it nor Sheikh Mujeeb-ur-Rehman. Taaj Deen Group stepped Forward and Movement suddenly turned to independence policy. Todays Ruling Powers infect are not able to judge or don’t want to judge antecedents of these protesting movements. This issue is taken as a dispute but I see it as developing protest which can turn get a rebellious face if not contolled in the start. I am afraid if situation turns so, it will not be held even by the movement leaders. So priority should be , concentrating in taking the political environment into confidence instead of neglecting even a single party as its not any body's cake I,e; cut a piece and eat it up......... (Apology for any mistake ) |
Our water effciency of irrigation water is only 35%. if it is increased to 60-70%, which is there in some countries, the need of dams is substantially obviated.
I wonder why govt. is so adamant at pressing with KBD. National solidarity is in all cases supreme. We should better starve but not at all go for something that is unacceptable to the highest earning provice. Let sleeping MQM lie indolent. Any confrontation with MQM at this stage will unleash a rein of teror and violence which will further jeopardize the already shy Foreign direct investment. Water is an important issue, but not the only issue. There is no use of having abundant water if we have to obtain visa to enter Hyderabad or Karachi. |
......
let MQM stay away from this matter hehehehe our leaders are enough to complicate the situation.. hehe
|
[I]Assalam Alaikum,[/I]
[I]I am one of very die hard MUREED of Peer Saab, I can't hear anything about him. Hehe.[/I] [I]Thanks.[/I] [I]P.S. I should have given this statement in Satan's game of lying, However I like it here.[/I] |
hehehe apke Peer sahab ko kisi nay kuch kaha bhi kab hay :evil
|
Salaam,
I unconditionally agree with brother Nauman. He has caught the issue right. Efficiency should be prefered to newer construction. It costs less and reaps more from the already limited resources. This is all what Economics is about! Regards, |
AoA
i pray for welbeing of al and sundry well i never intend to jump in the issue, however, i use to read the posts often ''dear Adil, nouman is very right, i already agreed this, for which u may check previous posts on the issue but dear we need eletricity as well, the production of which cannot be increased by cementing the existng canals and sub-canals you may recal that about 30 -35 % of electricity is generated from hydel power, the remaining is got from thermal sources dear hydel power is the cheapest source of electricity main issues for NWFP are displacement of people, flooding of important cities and royalty for Sindh the issues are intrusion of sea water and desertification of Sindh i can think that share of royalty should b given to nwfp and al problems would b okay for Sindh, their problems can be safeguarded by proposing canal-less dam however, this do not seem feasible as channels r required to b taken out from a dam well in my thinking if Sindh and NWFP are safeguarded then there is no issue for Balochistan to oppose kalabagh as major portion of Balochistan is falling in kharan basin not in indus basin. ----- dear sister amina , dams can only be constructed in mountains, sub-mountains, we can construct dams in plains, however, v can construct barrages, which cannot b termed as good as a dam could b ------- as regards other dams, one should favour less contentious dams but dear mind it, the issue of bhasha is being favoured but Norhtern areas should b safeguarded prior to any finalization and should also b given royalty (major share) keeping in mind a thing that constitutionaly northern areas are not part of Pakistan ..........................!!!!!! --- good dear sister eram u have also jumped in the issue, v must acquaint overselves with the problems of our country as it is our country, our motherland and our generations would spend their lives here ----- dear bro Nauman, ur judgement is indeed based on sagacity, may Allah bless you and you would b Csp this year --- |
How EQ changed Pakistan!!!
P.S The issues related to dam are in bold.I read it online so thought of sharing it with you.The views are not mine personel.Plz do tell ur views
By Alok Bansal [B][I][COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica-BoldOblique]The author is New Delhi based security analyst[/FONT][/COLOR][/I][/B] [B][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]How the quake changed Pakistan[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]December 09, 2005[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]T[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]wo months after the earthquake measuring 7.6 on the Richter Scale hit parts of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, Jammu and Kashmir, and northern Pakistan, it is time to analyse its impact on Pakistan, the country worst affected by the quake. Over 75,000 lives were lost, thousands were injured and millions rendered homeless, and the relief and rehabilitation costs are estimated to be $ 5.2 billion.[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Helvetica][/FONT] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]The devastation, however, is believed to have stirred up nascent Pakistani nationalism and has brought the country together. There was a new mood in the air where ordinary people responded to the earthquake spontaneously. The public at large instantly reacted to the catastrophe, and the affected regions were full of volunteers from far and wide.[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Helvetica][/FONT] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]A number of media reports compared the public solidarity with that of the heady days of 1965, which are widely believed to be the high point in Pakistan's existence as a nation state, because the war with India consolidated its claim to nationhood. However, a careful analysis of events in the immediate aftermath of the earthquake indicates that some of these comparisions are hollow.[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Helvetica][/FONT] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]The earthquake of October 8 not only shook the buildings and structures but also the confidence of the people of Pakistan. It was also a major setback in the efforts to overcome the economic and logistical problems faced by it. There was noticeable inertia in the initial days after the quake, and the [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]Pakistani Army, the only functioning institution in the country, reacted late in reaching the affected areas. Senior Army officers, specially the corps commanders of Rawalpindi and Peshawar, were conspicuous by their absence from the region affected by the tragedy. In fact the Army operations continued in southern Waziristan after the tragedy and some of the helicopters badly needed for relief were still attacking the militants despite the earthquake having devastated a large area and affected millions.[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Helvetica][/FONT] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]Though initially the Pakistani government declared that the quake would not affect the economy, it subsequently agreed that it would have an impact and indicated that some adjustments would have to be made in allocations for social development programs. While there was a groundswell of sympathy for the victims across most of Pakistan, there was anger towards the government and the military. The anti-government elements continued their operation in the tribal areas as well as in Balochistan. There were additional reports of unscrupulous elements trying to indulge in trafficking of hapless women and children affected by the earthquake. Sectarian riots in Gilgit and surrounding areas, which are contiguous to the quake affected region, continued to take place. The region remained under curfew for weeks immediately after the quake and more than a dozen lives were lost in clashes between the Pakistani Rangers and Shia students.[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Helvetica][/FONT] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]The quake also reopens the debate on the location of mega dams in Pakistan, as it would definitely put a lid on the proposed mega dam at Skardu, which is located in the highly seismic zone contiguous to the epicentre of the quake. It is unlikely that a mega dam with 35 million acre feet of water will be built in this zone, as its rupture due to seismic activity would cause massive devastation downstream.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][FONT=Helvetica][/FONT][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]Pakistani planners will also have to reconsider the proposed Bhasha dam in Chilas district of the Northern Areas. That would only leave Kalabagh out of the proposed three sites for mega dams, which is fiercely opposed by the NWFP and Sindh. Ironically, just one week after the quake, while on one hand Pakistan has appealed to the international community to donate generously for relief and rehabilitation, on the other hand it has gone ahead and signed a billion-dollar deal with Sweden for the acquisition of six SAAB early warning aircraft.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]Although the huge public outcry that followed forced the government to postpone the purchase of 77 F-16 fighter aircraft from the US, the Pakistani Army is still going ahead with the construction of new General Headquarters building and accommodation for Army top brass at Islamabad, at a time when the cost-cutting measures would seem imperative.[/FONT][/COLOR][/B] [B][FONT=Helvetica][/FONT][/B] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]Around $5.9 billion was pledged at the recent donors' conference held in Islamabad, including $ 25 million by India. In the immediate aftermath of the quake there was an all-pervasive feeling in Pakistan that its long-term friends, the Arab countries and China, had not done enough in its hour of need. However, the recent pledges by Saudi Arabia, China and the United Arab Emirates to provide $340 million, $300 million and $100 million respectively for rehabilitation and reconstruction would go a long way in assuaging such feelings.[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Helvetica][/FONT] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]There is no doubt that across the length and breadth of Pakistan a number of individuals and non-governmental organisations have come forward to provide succour to the affected individuals. The two organisations that have really won accolades for their participation in relief efforts are the Muttahida Quami Movement and the Jamaat-ut-Dawaahl, which is in fact the reincarnation of the Lashkar e Tayiba in a new name.[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Helvetica][/FONT] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]The MQM's stars are already on the upswing; recent local body polls clearly indicate that it holds complete sway over urban Sind. They have successfully out-manoeuvred the fundamentalist Jamat e Islami from Karachi and their efforts in PoK have endeared them to the masses in these regions as well.[/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Helvetica][/FONT] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]The other organisation active in relief operations in the region, which may play a more ominous role subsequently, is the JuD. This organisation, which has been in the forefront of exporting terror and sends suicide bombers across the LoC to cause death and destruction in Jammu and Kashmir and the rest of India, has ironically been in the forefront to provide succour to the affected population both in NWFP and PoK. Their volunteers have been distributing aid and carrying the wounded to hospitals in the remotest areas of the affected region and have won admiration for them in regions which have been the breeding ground for infiltrators. Their new found popularity may result in larger recruitment of terrorists in due course of time and so certainly does not augur well for India. [/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Helvetica][/FONT] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]Another factor that has implications for India is the presence of NATO troops in the region to provide relief and rehabilitation. They may keep a tab on JuD activists while looking out for Al Qaeda and Taliban elements in the region. While the presence of NATO troops in the PoK may serve to check cross-border terrorism in the short term, their continued presence in the territory that we believe to be Indian is not in our national interest.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]Natural disasters have an uncanny tendency to trigger events which have long term implications. The greatest natural disaster to have struck Pakistan in terms of lives lost was the cyclone that hit then East Pakistan in 1970. It is believed to have claimed close to a million lives and precipitated actions that led to estrangement of the affected population from the government and ultimately resulted in the break-up of Pakistan. What will be the effect of this disaster, the biggest since independence to have hit the region that constitutes Pakistan today?[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Helvetica]Whether it will strengthen the JuD in the region or lead to the alienation of Kashmiris from Pakistan, only time will tell. But one thing is certain: things have changed irrevocably in Pakistan since October [/FONT][/COLOR] |
[QUOTE=Tabassum Shabbir Awan]AoA
i pray for welbeing of al and sundry well i never intend to jump in the issue, however, i use to read the posts often ''dear Adil, nouman is very right, i already agreed this, for which u may check previous posts on the issue but dear we need eletricity as well, the production of which cannot be increased by cementing the existng canals and sub-canals you may recal that about 30 -35 % of electricity is generated from hydel power, the remaining is got from thermal sources dear hydel power is the cheapest source of electricity main issues for NWFP are displacement of people, flooding of important cities and royalty for Sindh the issues are intrusion of sea water and desertification of Sindh i can think that share of royalty should b given to nwfp and al problems would b okay for Sindh, their problems can be safeguarded by proposing canal-less dam however, this do not seem feasible as channels r required to b taken out from a dam well in my thinking if Sindh and NWFP are safeguarded then there is no issue for Balochistan to oppose kalabagh as major portion of Balochistan is falling in kharan basin not in indus basin. [/QUOTE] Brother it's so nice of you to step in. I really like it when you present your intellectual views. I agree that you gave your assent to efficiency. And it's quite enough to expose your broad vision and clear-cut understanding of the problems of irrigation and water management. You said: (but dear we need eletricity as well, the production of which cannot be increased by cementing the existng canals and sub-canals you may recal that about 30 -35 % of electricity is generated from hydel power, the remaining is got from thermal sources dear hydel power is the cheapest source of electricity) Brother, if energy is really the problem we have countless alternatives. And brother I will request you to review the cost of KBD. It won't produce cheap energy. Prices escalate when environmental and social degradation is taken in view along with the interest rates and inflation in future. Sindh really has objections to the canals. Sindh fears water-pilferage in times of drought and being a lower riparian it have any door to knock for justice. Tell me if Energy-Generation isn't possible without constructing those right and left canals. This general hasn't been authorized to rule the country. So it's not practical to let him take major decisions involving risk to the integrity of this country. Constitutional Guarantees from one who overrides it with impunity is simply unacceptable to either Sindh or NWFP. Regards, |
AoA
hmmmmm well dear sindh would also b a beneficiary of water stored in the dam, especially during the odd months of rabi and it would likely increase the production of many crops sure, consensus should b there but many in sindh wil accept the gurantee by general ny how, consensus should be arrived, in a bit hurry tke care Allah hafiz |
I think scientific reasoning is the way to deal with the Kalabagh dam. We need technical peoples to handle this issue not just MPA's and MNA's using this crucial issue to fulfill their political future. The question is how feasible the construction of dam is? What are the consequencies (good or bad) we are going to suffer in coming decades. Keeping all such things in mind is the best way to deal with the issue.
|
Pakistan is a democracy, not a technocracy. Technical experts have already been given a chance to present their opinions. But taking decisions is exclusively the business of representatives of people, be they mediocres or duffers.
|
DAM MADE or DAMN MADE.
i am a bit late in responding to this discussion as i have joined recently.
First of all brother u have the information about the dam but its not enough. You got to be clear about certain things that provokes the need of a dam. first of all Pakistan is still an agriculture country. its moving towards industrialization but still not there to call herself as a industrial nation. secondly u got to be certain about the the need of dam from many different perspectives like need of dam to store water for agriculture, need of dam for electricity, need of dam to reduce the effects of flood in pakistan. then u got to be sure of the population and reqiurement respectively. bcz the provinces like punjab and sindh are mostly sharing major portion of agricultre ,both have very fertile land and both share about 67% of our total population. Though NWFP has a fertile land as well but they are not on this side of cultivation. so NWFP does not reqiure water for cultivation. there need is to attain water for basic usage. Then kalbagh is near DERA ISMAIL KHAN. We all know that water cannot flow from bottom to top without any pressure and if u look at the map the dam is in such part of country that it cannot push it on the upstearm without making a pointed NEHAR toward the upper punjab and if its not done the dam is purely for sindh which nowhere reqiure 6.1 MAF of water and even if sindh also share with baluchistan still a moajirty of water after a dam is constructed goes where...INTO SEA. wasted as it seems. now if u relate the issue of SAIM and THORR with this dam then i t will happen but what damage can it cause is far less then the damage caused by the other factore that i have mentioned in the need for dam. the problem here is adjust the people living beside the site of dam..that i believe should be seariouly considered by the GOvt. bcz its really necessary.. i agree on this point of urs. u have mentioned about the dams of INDIA on completion of whihc we would no longer be having surplus water. my dear we also attain water from the places of Upper NWFP and different agencies in NWFP thru melting of snow. where would it go? if u have been through papers of last few DECADES then every governtment has proposed for this dam but the oppposition never let them made it because of thier personal issues..politicians have made it an issue that took it far away from problem solving issue to undisputed issue. every1 wants to be credited for it in anyway heor she thinks its right for him. The most important thing that must know is th where is that stored 6.1 MAF water mostly required andon what basis with actuall facts and figures and then what sustanied damages or losses we might have when we campare two things"DAM MADE" and "DAMN MADE" i can discuss a lot more things but its enough for me now. Please forgive me if i had been harsh to any1 thru my words. |
Salam Adil,
sorry for being so late. well first of all Adil it is really a nice and [B]semi [/B]comrehensive work................for a moment i went into flash back in my M.E.F Final's classroom where KALABAGH DAM was the burning issue of all the times. Well Every one here talked abt technical point of view...........as i'm a non-technical person but i understood all those points I want to ask tht either Kalabagh Dam has an effect on [B]NFC AWARDS Distribution[/B] if yu give a brief description relating NFC AWARDS and KALABAGH DAM i'll be very grateful to yu Regards Qurat |
| 03:19 PM (GMT +5) |
vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.