DMG back in power in Sindh..
 

Commissionery system has been restored in Sindh..Police ordinance 2002 also repealed:)Congrats to all DMG freaks:)Chalo chalo sindh chalo

this is indeed great news and step, csp officers may be biased and it is actually a political step but at-least now some competitive and educated mind will come in power at local level !

[QUOTE=hamza_salick86;328865]Commissionery system has been restored in Sindh..Police ordinance 2002 also repealed:)Congrats to all DMG freaks:)[/QUOTE]

Finally a power of DMG is restored, very good.......

[quote]Chalo chalo sindh chalo [/quote]
[B]@Salick[/B]....... DMG from Sindh woudnt give chance to others:nono

Dear congrats all those who are already in DMG. Sindh DMG walo k to mazy ho gae.:D:D:D:D:D

[QUOTE=khuhro;328885]Finally a power of DMG is restored, very good.......
[B]@Salick[/B]....... DMG from Sindh woudnt give chance to others:nono[/QUOTE]

Well I doubt that...
CSS being a federal service,any officer can be posted anywhere..
And its not like officers from other provinces haven't been posted in Sindh..
They have in the past,and I am sure officers from other provinces are still working there..
and in any case,first posting of Punjabi officers is going to be out of Punjab..i.e in Sindh,Baluchistan,KPK or G.B Fata...DMGians from 37th common are about to be posted in Sindh...

yes dear u are right

Dear dont be happy, u know past of mqm-ppp alliance. if now they come closer on the formula that adha tumhara adha hamara then you know very well what will happened.:ohmy::ohmy::ohmy:

[QUOTE=Ali Mubashir;328897]Dear dont be happy, u know past of mqm-ppp alliance. if now they come closer on the formula that adha tumhara adha hamara then you know very well what will happened.:ohmy::ohmy::ohmy:[/QUOTE]

Doesn't matter..In any case this system was to be restored in all the provinces..there has been a gradual transition towards it..even if LG are restored,they are going to be under 1979 ordinance..

Agree with Hamza that after restoration of the system there will be a rush of DMG officers to Sindh because this magistracy system belongs to trained DMG officers. The post of DDO-R was usually held by PCS officers but now PCS officers can’t be posted as Assistant Commissioner directly and they have to serve for few years under Senior officers in taluka before posted as AC of small taluka and large talukas will still be occupied by DMGs. So naturally these positions will be filled by DMG officers from all over the country. Higher grade DMG officers at the position of DC or Commissioners prefer DMGs as AC. I belong to a small town of Sindh and clearly remember DMG officers belonging to Sahiwal and Lahore posted as AC in our locality.

This move of the Sindh Govt. will help DMG officers but will disturb the PCS officers because the presence of large number of DMGs at higher grade will increase the time of PCS officers’ promotion (At least 15 years for first promotion). PCS officers in Punjab are very late in their promotions because of this very reason along with many others.Thus this system will create a lot of opportunities for DMGs no matter they belong to Punjab, Sindh or any other province of the country.

[QUOTE=Babakhan;328901]Agree with Hamza that after restoration of the system there will be a rush of DMG officers to Sindh because this magistracy system belongs to trained DGM officers. The post of DDO-R was usually held by PCS officers but now PCS officers can’t be posted as Assistant Commissioner directly and they have of to serve for few years under Senior officers before posted as AC. So naturally these positions will be filled by DMG officers from all over the country. Higher grade DMG officers at the position of DC or Commissioners prefer DMGs as AC. I belong to a small town and clearly remember DMG officers belonging to Sahiwal and Lahore posted as AC in our locality.

This move of the Sindh Govt. will help DMG officers but will disturb the PCS officers because the presence of large number of DMGs at higher grade will increase the time of PCS officers’ promotion (At least 15 years for first promotion). PCS officers in Punjab are very late in their promotions because of this very reason along with many others.

In Sindh different PCS batches i.e. 2003 & 2008 are already facing a lot of problems and charges of Corruption, the restoration of Magistracy will further increase the problems.[/QUOTE]

Punjab govt is now the only hurdle in the way of DMG getting back its pre-2002 powers..

What about PSP?
 

Police Order 2002 has also been revoked and the Police Act 1861 stands restored in Indus. Is it a good or bad omen for PSP..?

[QUOTE=floydian;328931]Police Order 2002 has also been revoked and the Police Act 1861 stands restored in Indus. Is it a good or bad omen for PSP..?[/QUOTE]

Bad..they are answerable to DC again..

I welcome this decision and pray that it may remain intact.i was always in favour of this system because even though civil servants are also corrupt but they are competent so better politicians and system id better than local govt as that system cannot be run smoothly in our country.

@ hamza salick

you are always wlcome bro in sindh along with other DMGs.:D

[QUOTE=suman;328938]I welcome this decision and pray that it may remain intact.i was always in favour of this system because even though civil servants are also corrupt but they are competent so better politicians and system id better than local govt as that system cannot be run smoothly in our country.

@ hamza salick

you are always wlcome bro in sindh along with other DMGs.:D[/QUOTE]

Thanx sis:shy

I want back local govt.

[QUOTE=hamza_salick86;328888]Well I doubt that...
CSS being a federal service,any officer can be posted anywhere..
And its not like officers from other provinces haven't been posted in Sindh..
They have in the past,and I am sure officers from other provinces are still working there..
and in any case,first posting of Punjabi officers is going to be out of Punjab..i.e in Sindh,Baluchistan,KPK or G.B Fata...DMGians from 37th common are about to be posted in Sindh...[/QUOTE]
Hamza is absolutely right....as a matter of fact; the officers from PSP and DMG have to serve [B]ATLEAST[/B] first three years of their service out of their home provinces....so in majority of the cases officers from punjab get posting in sindh or KPK but DMG officers prefer Sindh over KPK for the last so many years.

[QUOTE=floydian;328931]Police Order 2002 has also been revoked and the Police Act 1861 stands restored in Indus. Is it a good or bad omen for PSP..?[/QUOTE]
well....different people take it differently...but most of the seniors from PSP and DMG whom i came across with are of the opinion that this is a good change for PSP as well....since both PSP and DMG people are commoners so they cooperate with each other and their working relationship moves on more smoothly....PSP people never enjoyed working with Judiciary in particular; infact since the inception of Police Order, 2002 there have always been kind of a tussle between PSP and judiciary....so as far as i think its a good change for not only DMG and PSP but also for the general public....[I]bakki lets see....[/I]

Restoration of Police Act 1861.. Good for PSP :)
 

[QUOTE=hamza_salick86;328934]Bad..they are answerable to DC again..[/QUOTE]

Nah! i don't think so. Khair.. to each his own :)

[QUOTE=Red.Hawk;329157]well....different people take it differently...but most of the seniors from PSP and DMG whom i came across with are of the opinion that this is a good change for PSP as well....since both PSP and DMG people are commoners so they cooperate with each other and their working relationship moves on more smoothly....PSP people never enjoyed working with Judiciary in particular; infact since the inception of Police Order, 2002 there have always been kind of a tussle between PSP and judiciary....so as far as i think its a good change for not only DMG and PSP but also for the general public....[I]bakki lets see....[/I][/QUOTE]

I second you. PSPs were/are frequently summoned to the high courts, which is a kind of unyielding non-ephemeral harassment. Now that the protective shield of the DCs has been restored and baby Nazim is gone, PSPs can look forward to have smooth sailing. Secondly, restoration of Police Act 1861 practically means that the police has once again become the real coercive arm of the civil bureaucracy, for all purposes:)

good for PSP and DMG
 

@ All

It is good for both the PSP and the DMG officers. Infact, this will increase the prestige of CSS exam as whole.
:pipe
Now-a-days, PCS officers are occupying the best posts in Sindh whereas DMGs are just marginalized. Just look at the number oF DCOs, 21 of 26 DCOs in Sindh are PCS officers. Also, the DCOs (now Commissioners) of Karachi and Hyderabad are junior PCS officers of grade 19. Though conditions in Punjab are somewhat better, PMS officers are also slowly encroaching upon the seats of DMGs.
We hope that Punjab government will follow suit and the condition will improve for CSPs.

i am surprised that well educated people who have cleared their civil service exam, welcome a move that reverts the position of police back to pre-2002 situation. now being a part of this community i would also want prestige of civil servants and this service to be increased but not at the cost of a department as important as police. This Order was supposed to be a progressive one that replaced a colonial act

This issue of posting PCS Officers has been raised by Establishment Division with Sindh Govt. and SAMA TV has been highlighting it since last evening in their News reports. As per the report Chief Secretary was intimated by the concerned department that 200 DMG Officers are waiting in line to be appointed in different provinces and as per News caster, Chief Sec replied that current postings in Sindh are on temporary & on emergency basis to run the system and soon after receiving the list of DMG officers available for the positions they will be filled by DMGs as per the share.

Commissionerate system belongs to trained DMGs and after few months DMGs will be on key positions. PCS officers of higher grades will be seen on DC posts. PCS officers are posted on the post of AC after couple of years training and soon they are moved in grade 18, instead of making them DC, they are sent to secretariats and appointed as Deputy secretary. DMG Commissioners will only prefer DMG as DCs and ACs. It is the matter of their availability, once the officers start coming in flow to Sindh, DMGs will be every where.

Watch SAMA TV slides for more information.

[QUOTE=DEVOLUTION GEEK;329498]@ All

It is good for both the PSP and the DMG officers. Infact, this will increase the prestige of CSS exam as whole.
:pipe
Now-a-days, PCS officers are occupying the best posts in Sindh whereas DMGs are just marginalized. Just look at the number oF DCOs, 21 of 26 DCOs in Sindh are PCS officers. Also, the DCOs (now Commissioners) of Karachi and Hyderabad are junior PCS officers of grade 19. Though conditions in Punjab are somewhat better, PMS officers are also slowly encroaching upon the seats of DMGs.
We hope that Punjab government will follow suit and the condition will improve for CSPs.[/QUOTE]
The ratio which you have mentioned about DCOs in Sindh is mainly because DMG officers are least interested in getting postings in Sindh as they move to 18-19 grades...even if they do; they prefer being posted as Additional Secretary or Secretary in Provincial Government...In most of the cases they move to either Punjab or Islamabad.

And now there is a proposal to repeal the Police ordinance 2002 in Punjab and KPK as well..In due course of time,Magesterial powers might also be goven back to the AC's/DC's..lets keep the fingers crossed

Good for Civil Services, bad for Pakistan!
 

The restoration of Commissionerate System in Sindh is an extremely silly and selfish move by GoP! While the DMGians would be jumping with joy after this debacle,but the sufferings of the people would be increased!

And secondly,clearing the CSS exam doesn't necessarily mean that one is more capable and worthy to manage affairs of a district better than the elected representatives!

[QUOTE=JaandAAr Khan;330688]The restoration of Commissionerate System in Sindh is an extremely silly and selfish move by GoP! While the DMGians would be jumping with joy after this debacle,but the sufferings of the people would be increased!

And secondly,clearing the CSS exam doesn't necessarily mean that one is more capable and worthy to manage affairs of a district better than the elected representatives![/QUOTE]

When the elected representatives come with a single point agenda i.e'khao piyo' program than its much better that the CSS officers replace them..They are after all,trained to administer.Its not about clearing the CSS exam,it is about the training they are given after that which makes them good enough to manage the affairs..
Secondly,just have a look at the state of affairs,the magnitude of corruption,law and order situation and the plight of common man before 2002 and after that,you shall yourself get the answer..L-G was a system unfit for Pakistan,imposed by an unintelligent,impractical and a military man having a pea sized brain..without any thought as to its repercussions..So it basically had to be done away with..
P.S:Clearing the CSS exam to an extent means that you actually are capable enough to do the task you are given.

[QUOTE=JaandAAr Khan;330688]The restoration of Commissionerate System in Sindh is an extremely silly and selfish move by GoP! While the DMGians would be jumping with joy after this debacle,but the sufferings of the people would be increased!

And secondly,clearing the CSS exam doesn't necessarily mean that one is more capable and worthy to manage affairs of a district better than the elected representatives![/QUOTE]

These so called elected represtatives are mostly selected and having "Khao Piyo" agenda as [B]Salick[/B] said. well finaly we have someone educated person in a position to solve the problems of peoples, and by the way elected peoples are more currupt beacuse they are uneducated and belongs to so called political parties.

According to a TV Talk show that MQM has devised a formula about local govt. and commissionerate system and it is accepted by our honorable president to make the stance of MQM softer against Govt. This formula will be operative near to next election with another local body election in Sindh and this formula will make the situation of officers even poorer than the system implemented by Gen. Musharaf. There will be 3 to 4 DCs in a district i.e. DC 1, DC 2 and Two Assistant Commissioners will be reporting to Nazims or Mayers in future. Bechari Govt. ko MQM ko khush kerne aur target killing rokne ke liye system ko kharab kerna per raha hai.

Barrier-cracy a.k.a Bureaucracy
 

[QUOTE=hamza_salick86;330728]When the elected representatives come with a single point agenda i.e'khao piyo' program than its much better that the CSS officers replace them..They are after all,trained to administer.Its not about clearing the CSS exam,it is about the training they are given after that which makes them good enough to manage the affairs..
Secondly,just have a look at the state of affairs,the magnitude of corruption,law and order situation and the plight of common man before 2002 and after that,you shall yourself get the answer..L-G was a system unfit for Pakistan,imposed by an unintelligent,impractical and a military man having a pea sized brain..without any thought as to its repercussions..So it basically had to be done away with..
P.S:Clearing the CSS exam to an extent means that you actually are capable enough to do the task you are given.[/QUOTE]

Well,basically the "khao piyo" phenomenon is not only associated with the elected representatives! Over the years, people have suffered at the hands of BARRIER-Cracy a.k.a Bureaucracy. The corruption of the bureaucrats goes unnnoticed as they are not answerable to the people whereas elected representatives have to go back to the people to be elected again. Any corruption scam of a politician is incomplete without a bureaucrat in picture. Infact the bureaucrats guide the politicians through the dark tunnels of corruption.
P.S: Were Mohammad Ali Jinnah, or Allama Iqbal or Dr.Abdus Salam or Dr.A.Q.Khan or Edhi ................................. all CSPs? So,clearing CSS exam is not necessarily a certificate of excellence!

[QUOTE=khuhro;330822]These so called elected represtatives are mostly selected and having "Khao Piyo" agenda as [B]Salick[/B] said. well finaly we have someone educated person in a position to solve the problems of peoples, and by the way elected peoples are more currupt beacuse they are uneducated and belongs to so called political parties.[/QUOTE]

Lets take a look at who has caused Pakistan more harm? Educated people or uneducated ones?
1) Field Marshal Ayub Khan----->Educated
2) His Excellency Yahya Khan------>Educated
3) His Holiness Zia-ul-Haq---------->Educated
4) G.I.K------------------------------->Educated Bureaucrat
5) The Enlightened Moderate Musharraf Sb------>Educated
6) Civil Bureaucracy--------------------------->Educated
And apart from that, all the main political leaders of the country are also educated people! So dear,dont put the blame on uneducated people as they are already pre-occupied with their own problems and start looking what went wrong in the Medulla Oblongata of educated people of this country!

[QUOTE=JaandAAr Khan;330979]Well,basically the "khao piyo" phenomenon is not only associated with the elected representatives! Over the years, people have suffered at the hands of BARRIER-Cracy a.k.a Bureaucracy. The corruption of the bureaucrats goes unnnoticed as they are not answerable to the people whereas elected representatives have to go back to the people to be elected again. Any corruption scam of a politician is incomplete without a bureaucrat in picture. Infact the bureaucrats guide the politicians through the dark tunnels of corruption.
P.S: Were Mohammad Ali Jinnah, or Allama Iqbal or Dr.Abdus Salam or Dr.A.Q.Khan or Edhi ................................. all CSPs? So,clearing CSS exam is not necessarily a certificate of excellence![/QUOTE]

Ok so bureaucrats are corrupt..But atleast they made service delivery to the public more efficient than the politicians or the Nazims did.everyone knows how nazims mixed up administration with politics and resultantly the district administration deteriorated..
Well I think u are getting it wrong..It is not necessary to pass this exam to become a renowned person par excellence..But passing this exam certainly means that u are are the the very cream of the nation..

[QUOTE=JaandAAr Khan;330985]Lets take a look at who has caused Pakistan more harm? Educated people or uneducated ones?
1) Field Marshal Ayub Khan----->Educated
2) His Excellency Yahya Khan------>Educated
3) His Holiness Zia-ul-Haq---------->Educated
4) G.I.K------------------------------->Educated Bureaucrat
5) The Enlightened Moderate Musharraf Sb------>Educated
6) Civil Bureaucracy--------------------------->Educated
And apart from that, all the main political leaders of the country are also educated people! So dear,dont put the blame on uneducated people as they are already pre-occupied with their own problems and start looking what went wrong in the Medulla Oblongata of educated people of this country![/QUOTE]



Hence it is proved that All educated persons are harm to country, so lets close schools :laughing.... and let the peoples be uneducated :king

[QUOTE=khuhro;331085]Hence it is proved that All educated persons are harm to country, so lets close schools :laughing.... and let the peoples be uneducated :king[/QUOTE]

Yeah right:laugh:
I seriously doubt what does my brother here wants to prove...

[QUOTE=JaandAAr Khan;330985]Lets take a look at who has caused Pakistan more harm? Educated people or uneducated ones?
1) Field Marshal Ayub Khan----->Educated
2) His Excellency Yahya Khan------>Educated
3) His Holiness Zia-ul-Haq---------->Educated
4) G.I.K------------------------------->Educated Bureaucrat
5) The Enlightened Moderate Musharraf Sb------>Educated
6) Civil Bureaucracy--------------------------->Educated
And apart from that, all the main political leaders of the country are also educated people! So dear,dont put the blame on uneducated people as they are already pre-occupied with their own problems and start looking what went wrong in the Medulla Oblongata of educated people of this country![/QUOTE]

Waise seriously..aap ne 3,4 fojiyon k nam likhe is list me..U seriously think fojeez are educated:pp??

[QUOTE=khuhro;331085]Hence it is proved that All educated persons are harm to country, so lets close schools :laughing.... and let the peoples be uneducated :king[/QUOTE]

You are getting it wrong brother!;) Closing schools wont do it! Nor is it my point! My point is that being educated does not necessarily mean that one becomes a mistake-free being as a result of the thing called "education". Uneducated people or elected representatives are not inferior to educated bureaucrats! That is what i wanna say!

[QUOTE=hamza_salick86;331088]Waise seriously..aap ne 3,4 fojiyon k nam likhe is list me..U seriously think fojeez are educated:pp??[/QUOTE]

Yes bro,they are! They have a bachelors degree n what about the fojeez in bureaucracy! U consider them uneducated:huh:

[QUOTE=hamza_salick86;331087]Yeah right:laugh:
I seriously doubt what does my brother here wants to prove...[/QUOTE]

Bro I dont want to prove anything nor is this an appropriate forum to prove anything! I just want to say that Bureaucrats(especially the DMGians) are power hungry and their joy at the restoration of commissionerate system in Sindh clearly shows it! But,they forget that alongwith power comes a great responsibility! But they r willing to only take the power and keep the responsibility part aside!

[QUOTE=JaandAAr Khan;331159]Bro I dont want to prove anything nor is this an appropriate forum to prove anything! I just want to say that Bureaucrats(especially the DMGians) are power hungry and their joy at the restoration of commissionerate system in Sindh clearly shows it! But,they forget that alongwith power comes a great responsibility! But they r willing to only take the power and keep the responsibility part aside![/QUOTE]

And they very well know how to perform their duties and responsibilities efficiently..They have done it for over a century now..much better than these nazims...
B.A degree?Most of the fojeez join army after Intermediate(Long course)..And about the second question,well I dont agree with this policy of getting army wallahz into civil services..

[QUOTE=hamza_salick86;331166]And they very well know how to perform their duties and responsibilities efficiently..They have done it for over a century now..much better than these nazims...
B.A degree?Most of the fojeez join army after Intermediate(Long course)..And about the second question,well I dont agree with this policy of getting army wallahz into civil services..[/QUOTE]

They do get a BA degree in the PMA long course,..... but then again just a degree is no classification for being educated. Army is a tank targeting the institutions of a State..... the civil bureaucracy must remain with the civilians and the army bureaucrat (for running only army matters, not a step outside the Cantts or away form the borders) must be the army officers only.... i think a 10 percent quota must exist for the CSPs in the army, then again if you ask my personal views CSPs will never join the army ...... atleast i know i wont :)
Regards

[QUOTE=JaandAAr Khan;331154]You are getting it wrong brother!;) Closing schools wont do it! Nor is it my point! My point is that being educated does not necessarily mean that one becomes a mistake-free being as a result of the thing called "education". Uneducated people or elected representatives are not inferior to educated bureaucrats! That is what i wanna say![/QUOTE]

yeah but... education makes man perfect, if you want a growth of country we should select right person for right place but education is fundamental aspect for everything. Many of the parties are talking about mayor system (so called nazim system they resemble) of Egland and they compare with their nazims with those mayors. its wrong their political institutions are strong and having educated mechanism. we are laking in education we must need educated peoples on even this type of post. that our society should have some mechanism someone should be their to the imporatance of eduacation and rights of peoples. on matric level you cant appoint a clerk then how can it is possible that we give them top post at district level. these political statements are just given to take their part from goverment they are not sincere peoples so understand the ground realities. nothing is better then a CSP officer if you want a stable society and Pakistan as whole.

i just saw the title
" DMG back in power"
AND I couldnt stop myself to write a few lines...

is DMG a political party which is back in power?
what is the definition of power ?
have we joined civil services to gain power and to gain control on other occupational groups .. or we want to overpower public ?

is there anyone who is interested in service delivery in watever system and capacity he has .....
please think outside the complexes we have !!

[QUOTE=kashifaslam;331919]i just saw the title
" DMG back in power"
AND I couldnt stop myself to write a few lines...

is DMG a political party which is back in power?
what is the definition of power ?
have we joined civil services to gain power and to gain control on other occupational groups .. or we want to overpower public ?

is there anyone who is interested in service delivery in watever system and capacity he has .....
please think outside the complexes we have !![/QUOTE]


Power is sometimes defined as "capability of making others go against their will." And in the context of this definition I find power and service in no way relevant. A service officer should not bear an autocratic monarch (leviathan) mindset and make a clear distinction between sovereignty (absolute power) and authority (delegated power).

The authority of a civil servant is a power bestowed upon him/her by the society and he must exercise his authority within such limits as not to disregard the sovereignty which belongs to, for practical purposes, the people, and theoretically, to Allah Almighty.

Hence the title of the thread should be "DMG back in authority"

[QUOTE=kashifaslam;331919]i just saw the title
" DMG back in power"
AND I couldnt stop myself to write a few lines...

is DMG a political party which is back in power?
what is the definition of power ?
have we joined civil services to gain power and to gain control on other occupational groups .. or we want to overpower public ?

is there anyone who is interested in service delivery in watever system and capacity he has .....
please think outside the complexes we have !![/QUOTE]

In my view craving for power and prestige is in human nature.That is why civil lservice no longer attracts the brightest minds as its autonomy has been destroyed over the years,starting from bhutto.I think hardly anyone thinks about niceties like service delivery,in the context of Pakistan.Moreover maintenenance of order and revenue collection is still the most imp fuction of this state,prescriptions like Development oriented civil service are largely irrelevant in our case.For this reason magistracy is the best solution,notwithstanding our favourite propensity to call it Colonial relic.