[QUOTE=ArifAwan;311548]AoA!

Which subject did you choose after leaving IL?
Are you taking CE 2012?[/QUOTE]

I took journalism. I hope it won't play down this time. And yes, if need be, I might take CE2012 as well.

[QUOTE=sajidnuml;311593]I do not think you need to cram anything with the exception of a few articles of Vienna Convention, Geneva covention and only one or two articles of the statute of international court of justice besides some resolutions of the UNO. Now, being a CSS aspirant one should know all these charters, conventions and resolution. they are helpfull in current affairs as well as in other papers. Role of UNO in the Settlement of intenational disputes in accordance with the laid laws and subsequent indifference of powerful states are such issues which a css aspirant shall know . And these issues are the subject of IL

@SHASHJ10

Dear there are roughly 20 topics which you can easily prepare in 20 days. regarding cramming, there are [I][COLOR="Navy"]only references[/COLOR][/I] which you are required to give while attepmting a question. For instance if you are asked: what is Nationality, now you can give a refernece that [COLOR="Navy"][I]According to the Article 15 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights 1948" Every one has the right to nationality. if asked about Piracy you may proceed this way that acoording to the article 15 of vienna convention piarcy is an illegal or violent act commited on high seas against a ship, person or property.[/I][/COLOR]

The rest is philosphy, opinions, and practices , since, it is not in codified form. It is mainly based on the international customs which have developed over the years, which have been observed by states in thier mutual relations,and which they are not bound to observe if they find them against their national intrests. similarly there are [I][COLOR="Navy"]political thinkers, legists whose opinions[/COLOR][/I] are given much importance. They have tried to justify International law as true law where as some have refused to acknowlege it as having the force of law.

[B]For you dear literatti person, International Law is the Tale of Two or More Countries. Cheeers.[/B] :pipe:pipe[/QUOTE]

Dear Sajid,

You have eventually elaborated and strengthened my stance in your post and that also through examples. :)) (see the italic blue fonts)

Every law subject requires extensive cramming. Unless you do not have articles on your finger tips, you cannot claim to be familiar with the subject. I started off assuming that I will just have to read the books and interpret myself. Later I realized that it's interpretation was also set and it cannot be moulded. Sometimes even the so called legists would have me hold my head in hands over their weird interpretations of an otherwise quite simple statement. Of the three books which I read partially, Starke's International Law was the only one I enjoyed while Kapoor's book earned plenty of loath.

To read and understand what comes under "General" category i.e Universal Declaration etc is bit simple and not mandatory. Whereas, for a student of International Law as well as anyone opting this subject, cramming bulk of articles along with the prefix digits and original text is inevitable especially if you want to anticipate GOOD score. Rest, if you want average marks somewhere between 40-50, it does necessitates cramming anything close to the original text.

[QUOTE=Stunner;311600]I'm seriously thinking about opting International law instead of Muslim law .. Because after all the aim is to score as much as possible ..

What do others suggest me .. ?[/QUOTE]

I think reading the above posts should enable you to form an opinion and take a decision by yourselves.

Good Luck!

[QUOTE=redmax;311535]Your doubts are absolutely correct. I pulled out of this subject few months prior to the examination on the sole basis of 'cramming' articles 1,2,3, blah blah of so and so charter and so and so declaration etc. You will have to cram many many things (FOR FETCHING GOOD SCORE) in this subject. Alternatively, you can just get the jist of the things and write on your own risking your score.[/QUOTE]
[B][I]Not true at all. Its all conceptual and very very interesting.
I don't think I had to cram something.
Yes a very few things are there to cram.
But even without them paper can be attempted easily.
Besides, paper pattern does not demand cramming.[/I][/B]
[QUOTE=Stunner;311600]I'm seriously thinking about opting International law instead of Muslim law .. Because after all the aim is to score as much as possible ..

What do others suggest me .. ?[/QUOTE]

[B][I]If you have to chose out of the two, go for I. Law without thinking anymore.
Brother it is far scoring and far interesting than Muslim Law.
And very informative.
Regards.
[/I][/B]

[QUOTE=Tassawur;311687][B][I]Not true at all. Its all conceptual and very very interesting.
I don't think I had to cram something.
Yes a very few things are there to cram.
But even without them paper can be attempted easily.
Besides, paper pattern does not demand cramming.[/I][/B]
[/QUOTE]

My dears,

I have to reiterate that [B][COLOR="Navy"]IF YOU WANT TO FETCH GOOD SCORE[/COLOR][/B] you have no other choice but to cram the original text of many articles. And this I say with a fair deal of conviction since I substituted it after ample consultation with seniors and guides around me. Besides, I have no reason to denounce the charm of the subject if one wants to read it for any other purpose than opting for css. If you have a good memory, go for it. If you fear you may forget things, go for an easy alternate. After all CSS is not all about studying, it's about studying the right things as well. :))

[QUOTE=redmax;311700]My dears,

I have to reiterate that [B][COLOR="Navy"]IF YOU WANT TO FETCH GOOD SCORE[/COLOR][/B] you have no other choice but to cram the original text of many articles. And this I say with a fair deal of conviction since I substituted it after ample consultation with seniors and guides around me. Besides, I have no reason to denounce the charm of the subject if one wants to read it for any other purpose than opting for css. If you have a good memory, go for it. If you fear you may forget things, go for an easy alternate. After all CSS is not all about studying, it's about studying the right things as well. :))[/QUOTE]

[B][I]Well .While preparing it , I have not witnessed any such issue of cramming.
Just a few references one needs to keep in mind.
If one sees the past papers of the subject , one can infer, that one needs not cram those things.
I have attempted the papers of 2010 and 2011 .
I am always extremely uncomfortable with cramming.
But I have not felt this problem to any visible extent while preparing or attempting the paper.[/I][/B]

Thanks alot,which books u suggest for international law?

What were ur other subject in both of ur attempts?i want to know because u said u r quite uncomfortable with cramming.as u have taken both attempts please comment on ths psychology,sociology,journalism,public ad,international law.if i drop public admin and international law i can go for geography,what u suggest.i mean keeping the fact in mind that my specialization is english lit and education.

Redmax u substituted it with???what were ur other optionals?

[QUOTE=SHASHJ10;311757]What were ur other subject in both of ur attempts?i want to know because u said u r quite uncomfortable with cramming.as u have taken both attempts please comment on ths psychology,sociology,journalism,public ad,international law.if i drop public admin and international law i can go for geography,what u suggest.i mean keeping the fact in mind that my specialization is english lit and education.[/QUOTE]

[B][I][COLOR="DarkRed"]Well out of these , I had journalism.
But journalism was under heavy heavy clouds in 2010.
You can see the results of even those who have been the toppers.
They have not scored better in it.
I got 40 marks in it , while I had all 20 mcqs correct.

See these results to check journalism marks. .
[url=http://www.cssforum.com.pk/311537-post43.html]CSS Forums - View Single Post - Share Your DMS Here ..[/url]

[URL="http://www.cssforum.com.pk/310711-post21.html"]


www.cssforum.com.pk/310711-post21.html[/URL]

[url=http://www.cssforum.com.pk/311543-post44.html]CSS Forums - View Single Post - Share Your DMS Here ..[/url]

These are of those who got allocated.
Not ordinary people.[/COLOR][/I][/B]

[QUOTE=redmax;311675]I took journalism. I hope it won't play down this time. And yes, if need be, I might take CE2012 as well.



Dear Sajid,

You have eventually elaborated and strengthened my stance in your post and that also through examples. :)) (see the italic blue fonts)

Every law subject requires extensive cramming. Unless you do not have articles on your finger tips, you cannot claim to be familiar with the subject. I started off assuming that I will just have to read the books and interpret myself. Later I realized that it's interpretation was also set and it cannot be moulded. Sometimes even the so called legists would have me hold my head in hands over their weird interpretations of an otherwise quite simple statement. Of the three books which I read partially, Starke's International Law was the only one I enjoyed while Kapoor's book earned plenty of loath.

To read and understand what comes under "General" category i.e Universal Declaration etc is bit simple and not mandatory. Whereas, for a student of International Law as well as anyone opting this subject, cramming bulk of articles along with the prefix digits and original text is inevitable especially if you want to anticipate GOOD score. Rest, if you want average marks somewhere between 40-50, it does necessitates cramming anything close to the original text.



I think reading the above posts should enable you to form an opinion and take a decision by yourselves.

Good Luck![/QUOTE]


My Dear Sir Redmax

Now we must make a differnce b/w cramming and taking note of something important. In every subject there are important events, dates quotes and personalities which we have to remeber while preparing it, and international law is no exception. For example, in the current affair paper, if you are asked to explain Pak US relaions in the historical context. now to answer this genrally you have to recall all the important treaties, mutual agreements and even the dates of some particulor events, besides, you are to mention the economic aid in figures and the year in which it was provided, and the stipulated conditions which have to be followed. Similarly, in Pak affair you have to remeber the 14 points of Quid, and the Nehru report and its contents; leave aside the other important things like the differnet constitutional commissions and reforms.

In the same way we have to take note of the important events in the history subjects. Islamic history for example is a subject in which you have to remeber what particulor reforms were introduced by such and such ruler. likewise you should know the contents of the last sermon of Holy Prophet, and the contents charter of Madinah and the treaty of Hudaybiya.

English literature or some other subjects, for examlpe, regional languges are no exceptions to this rule. For Sindhi you have to remeber the Baits of Shah Latif which you are to put in your answer as refernces.

Coming back to the topic, I want to say that what you consider cramming of facts in IL is not infact cramming material but they are some importnat refernces which you furnish while attempting a particulor question, however if you dont give any, It does not affect your marks provided that you have good understanding of the subject. I believe It is the Beating about the bushes which affect your marks, not ommision of some facts or refernces. Moreover, there are many questions in which there are no such aricles, for example. is internatinaol law a proper law, or sources of International law, Recognition etc.

I dont know what you consider good score, I had 65 in IL in 2010.

Regards,

[QUOTE=Tassawur;311706][B][I]Well .While preparing it , I have not witnessed any such issue of cramming.
Just a few references one needs to keep in mind.
If one sees the past papers of the subject , one can infer, that one needs not cram those things.
I have attempted the papers of 2010 and 2011 .
[COLOR="Navy"]I am always extremely uncomfortable with cramming.
[/COLOR]But I have not felt this problem to any visible extent while preparing or attempting the paper.[/I][/B][/QUOTE]

First, I shared my experience without any implicit aim to persuade to anyone for either opting or dropping this subject from the list. However, my views/experience may guide/misguide anyone regardless of the earnestness with which these are expressed and shared. I cannot say whether you studied the subject in its entirety or took help from some notes which made your task easy. In my case, I had to start from the scratch. Let me make a list what I had to cram (or 'keep in mind' as you call it):

1. Definitions of Terms (50+) e.g magna carta, etc.
2. Names of Prominent Legists & their views about IL
3. Universal Declaration of HR (30 Articles)
4. Several Conventions, Dates, Places, Countries etc.
5. Separate Laws governing seas, diplomats, war times etc.
6. Some Prominent Cases in the history & their details
and much more...

The point is one has to remember the original text word by word if one wants to quote it in the paper. Many would agree to this that original text has its own impact over interpreted secondary text.

Pardon me for I do not possesses a photo memory which is why I put up a different show everytime I sit to write on the same topic. That's one of the reasons why I had to switch this subject.

Again, I feel necessary to reiterate that you can get away with it by putting your own interpretation and fetch average score. For scoring high, like Sajidnuml, you ought to memorize things in their true spirit.




[QUOTE=SHASHJ10;311759]Redmax u substituted it with???what were ur other optionals?[/QUOTE]

Journalism. My other optionas included Arabic, Pub. Ad, Sociology & Sindhi.

[QUOTE=sajidnuml;311859]My Dear Sir Redmax

Now we must make a differnce b/w cramming and taking note of something important. In every subject there are important events, dates quotes and personalities which we have to remeber while preparing it, and international law is no exception. For example, in the current affair paper, if you are asked to explain Pak US relaions in the historical context. now to answer this genrally you have to recall all the important treaties, mutual agreements and even the dates of some particulor events, besides, you are to mention the economic aid in figures and the year in which it was provided, and the stipulated conditions which have to be followed. Similarly, in Pak affair you have to remeber the 14 points of Quid, and the Nehru report and its contents; leave aside the other important things like the differnet constitutional commissions and reforms.

In the same way we have to take note of the important events in the history subjects. Islamic history for example is a subject in which you have to remeber what particulor reforms were introduced by such and such ruler. likewise you should know the contents of the last sermon of Holy Prophet, and the contents charter of Madinah and the treaty of Hudaybiya.

English literature or some other subjects, for examlpe, regional languges are no exceptions to this rule. For Sindhi you have to remeber the Baits of Shah Latif which you are to put in your answer as refernces.

Coming back to the topic, I want to say that what you consider cramming of facts in IL is not infact cramming material but they are [COLOR="Indigo"]some importnat refernces which you furnish while attempting a particulor question[/COLOR], however [COLOR="Orange"]if you dont give any, It does not affect your marks[/COLOR] provided that you have good understanding of the subject. I believe It is the Beating about the bushes which affect your marks, not ommision of some facts or refernces. Moreover, there are many questions in which there are no such aricles, for example. is internatinaol law a proper law, or sources of International law, Recognition etc.

I dont know what you consider good score, I had 65 in IL in 2010.

Regards,[/QUOTE]

Agreed with the 1st n 2nd Para.

The references as you call these are quite necessary in order to authenticate your argument. Mere verbosity may not win you examiner's heart my dear. The valid statistics and statements will surely buy you a little more attention and fetch you extra marks. A simple formula, you see. :))

Btw, you had a pretty good score in 2010.

Keep it up!

Good Luck!

[B][I][COLOR="DarkRed"]@ redmax
Brother you seem to be over afraid of I. Law.
I experienced this subject.
Prepared it , appeared in papers twice, got 71 in 2010.
But , I , haven't even felt the hurdles which you have mentioned.
Anyhow,
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"[/COLOR][/I][/B]

@Tassawar

Redmax ko misguide kiya gya ha IL ke barey me aur jis ne bhi kiya ha wo na to IL ka dost ha na Redmax ka , ye aik preplaned sajish lagti ha mujhe. lols

@Redmax

You are quite familiar with the idea of smart work, arnt You? Yaar there is nothing very difficuilt it is all very easy and intresting