The tears of a Minister...
 

They call him a Doctor. I call him an actor. Did anybody watch GEO on the 27th shab? The tears were flowing as if he had a waterpump in his eyes. I wonder if someone was peeling/cutting onions while he was reciting the Dua... Hes got his Doctors degree from the Trinity College -- which has been proved to be fake. And hes our Minister of Religious affairs. Who was asking whether the constitution supremacy exists in Pakistan? Any comments people?


Regards,

[B][I]BUSHaRRaF[/I][/B]

Assalam Alaikum,

I think he's fake, but they say that he will be the one taking over MQM after Altaf Hussain. Even though I think he's fake, I still won't question his piety because that is for Allah to judge.

But one thing is for sure, I am not a religious person therefore watch some music and entertainment programs and have seen this Minister in those programs as well in the front rows. SO GO FIGURE!!!

[B]Babban Bhai! its a beuatiful homogenous mixture of subjective materialism as well as your getting emacipated in your life hereafter ! A real prescription to make you completely successful in both your lives. If you want a one word substitution for this abbhorent ideology it would be "Enlightened Moderation"[/B]

Assalam Alaikum,

Brother nhpaki, my response to your beautiful observation would be:

Islam is the religion of moderation (mayana rawi), given to us as a gift from our Allah, and reflected in the actions of our beloved Prophet (PBUH). While I have that, or for that fact any muslim who has that, Why in the world would they follow Mr. Musharraf's enlighten moderation?

Let me tell you what Enlighten Moderation means to our President, or for that fact anybody who preaches it, it means when you enter masjid you follow Allah, and when you are out of the masjid in the real world, you follow GORA SAHAB.

So any Mullah that is the biproduct of Enlighten Moderation, like our respectable minister is, would be like Religion on the surface visible to the world and GORA SAHAB stuffed inside like BAN KABAB or in GORA SAHAB language HAMBURGER.

So I certainly hope that this mirch masala mixture, similar to our LOLLYWOOD movies, can work out for these dignitaries. Because Allah as my witness, this mixture is not going to work out for me or any other muslim, who's looking for NIJAAT, in the day of judgement.

So let us pray that Allah give us the strength to follow the path that leads to heaven, and not to hell fire.

Thanks.

AoA

agreeing to busharaf, he is really an actor, some years back, when he was not elected, i had watched some of his programs 'Aalim online', but in Ramadan, on very night, he was shwing documentary, since then i abhore him, then he was elected nd nominated to b a minister, a sorry state for the country

sorry from his admirers,

he is a person corrupt to skin of teeth, nd now strengthening his position through thse programs in the television, specially through Geo,

though Allah knows better, but what i got, he is not a good person

Thats What Showbiz is all about
 

Ok I agree that the Guy is an Actor but guys thats what showbiz is all about dont U think.

Assalam Alaikum,

I would have no problem if he was next best thing after Shahrukh Khan, but he is polishing his acting in the name of religion. UNACCEPTABLE.

Thanks.

I call this encashing the religion. He has been making fun of islam and GEO pays him for that! He tends to agree to certain ahaadith, and comes up with lame rebuttals for not accepting other ahaadith that have some strict obligations. Besides that, there is a whole record of him making wrong quotations from the Holy Qur'an.

A true sign of the Judgment Day being imminent. Clowns preaching the word of ALLAH(S.W.T) & HIS Apostle(S.A.W).....


Regards,

[I][B]BUSHaRRaF[/B][/I]

Salamz,
It's a democratic world we live in with each entitled to their opinion.Yet i could'nt overlook the above observations and toss them aside casually.The Minister in discussion is known to me personally and i assure you that he's not that bad with regards to his personal morality.He maybe a little short of being perfect but more so because of unstable human nature than outrageous immorality!!!!Let's not forget that the man is an ordinary mortal and no prophet...so just to be fair,let's not expect of him what we would'nt of ourselves!!!!

Assalam Alaikum,

Mr. 34Commons, your observation is well taken. Even though my intention was never to question anyone's morality, as we all carry burden of our unstable personal morality, and it only Allah and Allah alone who can judge individuals on the basis of morality.

But I will still standby very firmly along with the other members who seem to agree with me on the issue of so-called Enlighten Moderation, that is being injected to us all through TV and all. I firmly believe that this new version of Enlightened Moderate Islam, will do nothing but make us carry added load of our unstable personal morality, in this world and hereafter.

Though I have my moral shortcomings like everyone else, but it does not give us right to mold our religion to fit our moral shortcomings.

Thanks, and pray from Allah to give all some HIDAAYA to follow the chosen path and to be spared from hell fire at the day if NIJAAT.

Make up your minds,gentlemen!!!
 

Walaikum Salaam,
Your overall opinions,Mr.Babban,are interesting and reek of rationalism,indeed a lethal combination!
However,the statements i've made above are strictly in consonance with the issue initiated originally and i must say that the doctrine of ENLIGHTENED MODERATION is inconsistent with its essence.Nevertheless,since it's been tossed in my path i'll take the liberty to discuss it,with as much impersonality and precision,as possible.

Any broad minded theologin or profound thinker today will agree that the problem with today's Muslim Ummah is it's becoming stagnant to change,lest it commits blasphemy;whereas out've a total of 6666 verses of the Holy Quran, 756(1/9) stand directly or indirectly for the rational approach !!!! Precisely,religion is not static or based on fixed dogmas,and this is stated within the Quran itself.

There's no doubt that our ideologies have been perverted and polluted,a logical evidence of which is Allah Almighty's promise of Immam Mehdi,an issue on which there's a consensus among the entire Muslim bloc.

Then again,the multiple sects of Islam indicate that we've gone wrong somewhere.History stands witness to the fact that when a society crumbles into pieces,outsiders come and pick up these pieces as happened in the times of British India.And this is why Islam stresses on concepts like cohesion and brotherhood ! So having admitted that we stand corrected,why then are we opposed,tooth and nail,to State campaigns like those of Enlightened Moderation which only go to preach value integration in a society so dangerously lacking in it !

Care to shed some light?

2+2=5
 

Assalam Alaikum,

Though I do not agree with your main reasonung to justify Enlighten Moderation, but some of the things were very put in your post.

I think there is been a great confusion among ordinary people as to how they should interpret this term of Enlighten Moderation, some interpret it as socio-cultural dilemma, and some interpret it in strictly religious sense. I would argue it is both, and should be interpreted in socio-cultural-religious sense. Since this was the statement made by a certain individual on the international forum describing his vision for International relations of Islamic states with the west, than I find it to be inconsistent.

In the context of which it was first introduced, it was inconsistent, because west is not criticizing any particular nation or state for their own political shortcomings with Muslims, but blaming the religion for terrorism and such. Without acknowledging that this very religion was used as a tool to fight against communism, is now been criticized for being too FANATIC. So it does not matter as to how the Islamic states operate in the future with GORA SAHAB, they will still reject the religion as being fanatic.

I connect this issue to the broader sense of International relations, because the main conflict of the Cold war was the opposing man made ideologies of both sides that they fought over for half a century. But in this case, the ideology becomes an individual’s faith, therefore any idea to change ideology can be rejected at once because it contradicts the faith, and everything that is derived from it should be condemned.

This was my view on Enlighten Moderation with regards to International Relations, and if we were to analyze it as a social integration value point of view and such, than I would still very much argue that it negates that notion as well. Keeping in mind that Islam teaches us the rational approach within its boundary of teachings, but one should still bare in mind that religion and rational religious approach and such can only be interpreted by individuals who have authority on theology, by this I mean scholars. Therefore, any religious rational approach created by an average Joe, whose subject of interest is Military History should be rejected, similar to the example of a math teacher who adds 2+2=5.

I see no difference between western concepts of secularism and enlighten moderation, because both preach the same things, so anybody who is the byproduct of that will only preach his version of Islam, which will consequently be perverted and polluted ideology.

In the light of the above argument, I would encourage people to try to follow religion, because Islam is based on the principal of MAYANA RAWI, and teaches cohesion, brotherhood and integration and all that we lack so much as society. It is solely our fault for not following the religion properly, therefore religion cannot be blamed. Besides, this so called Enlighten Moderation is nothing but an extended version of secularism, that negates the ideology to which our country was build upon.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _
When I say that this ideology is been injected to us through media, let me than give you a brief example on that as well:

Even though the reaction of media outlets in the wake of earthquake was that of being sad and sorrow, but they reflected their sorrow in a very different way. When they integrated the sentimental songs from the movies along with HAMD and NAATS, and people criticizing them were shut, by their justification of playing sufiana kalaam and such, and people objecting it were declared to be narrow minded. Trust me the stuff that was played was nowhere near sufiana kalam as well a lot of the times.

I am specifically taking about the FM 103 channel that I get here via internet, and believe these channels have wide number of audience in urban areas of Pakistan. But that is just one example.


Thanks.

Bravo!!!!
 

Dear Mr.Babban,
I'm relieved that you've returned to the basics and started observing profile pictures before assuming genders!!! lolzz

Other than that,you're entitled to your own opinions my friend and therefore it's alright and even expected if you don't agree with me on certain grounds.But you must admit that your "disagreement" with "reasoning" only goes to prove my point even further,i.e,the citizens of Muslim states,particularly those of Pakistan,have become static to reasoning ,resulting in retarding the growth of societies that they're a part of.In addition to that,a society's cultural dynamics are embedded in it's religious ones and therefore i interpreted the doctrine of Enlightened Moderation in context of the same.

Anyhow,amidst all this,hats off to you on your stance of not questioning anyone's piety and leaving it to the One for who it's to decide!

[QUOTE=34thCommons]the citizens of Muslim states,particularly those of Pakistan,have become static to reasoning ,resulting in retarding the growth of societies that they're a part of.In addition to that,a society's cultural dynamics are embedded in it's religious ones and therefore i interpreted the doctrine of Enlightened Moderation in context of the same.

Anyhow,amidst all this,hats off to you on your stance of not questioning anyone's piety and leaving it to the One for who it's to decide![/QUOTE]


Assalam Alaikum,

Once again I deeply appreciate your active participation in the forum.

I strongly believe that religion cannot be enforced on people, yet it needs to be taught and to be understood in its core to be followed. Especially Islam, as you and me both know that this is the true religion that will lead to the emancipation of the mankind. I think you bring up a good point of people reasoning on anything to everything in our society, that may halt the progress of the country, but on the other hand what do you expect out of the country where people lack the education, we are lack behind in both religious and contemporary education. That is the reason we are falling behind, I think Islam tell you to get an education even if you have to go far away. While most of our elite class has seem to gotten that message of Islam, and do go to foreign for higher education, but have not yet gotten Islam, in its true meaning, as that needs some learning as well.

No doubt that a true Muslim needs to be enlightened by Ilm, as his weapon of choice, against all the injustices occuring to us, and therefore needs to be balanced in his thoughts according to the teachings of religion. But for that we need to be firm on our believes, that we are not.

The reason why Pakistan is not able to progress in 50+ yrs, becuase we have leaders who have not yet came up with firm reasoning of their own to counter the reasoning of masses that may be wrong. Yet we were and still are busy filling up our own pockets, and trying to secure the KURSI of power. I don't think the people of Pakistan failed the country, but it was their leaders who failed to lead, because they don't have what it takes to be a leader of Islamic Ideological state.

We may have once in a while a new face that appear in the power to take Pakistan to new places, yet that individual is the only one that is new and everything around is as old as an antiques, with their feudal thoughts. Let's just assume that Mr. Musharraf's ideology of Enlighten Moderation is the next best thing Pakistan needs to be exceled in the 21st century, do you really think that ex-benazir, ex-sharif people of his government will take us there. If Mr. Musharraf were to be so sincere with Pakistan, and wanted to bring about change, he should've changed the political arena of Pakistan, where politicians make or break at Red Light districts of our country.

I believe that the next big thing that Pakistan needs is viable democracy, with effective intitutions, and not the rogue politicians and power hungry generals.

We all need to realize that ordinary citizen of Pakistan did not fail Pakistan, it was our leaders. In the lack of leadership with no glimpse of hope, people will even follow the monkey with the lantern. So why are we to blame, if this so called Enlighten moderation to even take place, it should be first applied in the diplomatic circles of Islamabad, where most of our Politicians don't even know the five Pillars of Islam. Our Parliament, both sides of the aisles are comprised of dysfunctional jockeys of democracy who are illiterate university graduates.

A leader cannot lead until he knows the direction to lead, we cannot have GORA SAHAB lead us through our leaders, that is why I oppose the Enlighten Moderation.

We are the people who were there in 1965, and after October 8, and yet our politicians and generals were there in 1971, and after Kargil, where they did not lead but secure their Kursis, with their mumbo jumbo lip service to the nation.

Thanks.

Assalam O Alaikum,
The manner in which he delivered his dua on 27th Ramzan should be between him and Allah(He who knows what is hidden in the depth of ones heart). So we instead of passing our precious opinions and judgements on his attude should rather try pray to Allah for forgiveness and prosperity.

Her koi apnee kaber ka khud zimedar hai and Religious minister is no exception to this fact.

Allah Hafiz,
NCH

[QUOTE=NCH]Assalam O Alaikum,
The manner in which he delivered his dua on 27th Ramzan should be between him and Allah(He who knows what is hidden in the depth of ones heart). So we instead of passing our precious opinions and judgements on his attude should rather try pray to Allah for forgiveness and prosperity.

Her koi apnee kaber ka khud zimedar hai and Religious minister is no exception to this fact.

Allah Hafiz,
NCH[/QUOTE]
I fully agree with you! Infact i want to say that atleast on the Screen he is teaching us something,something that is good,and we being the part of the most emotional nation in the world just criticize! Who knows whats the truth and that who is close to Allah (S.W.T).
No further comments please~

Assalam Alaikum,

Brother Khushal and NCH, I think all of us resolved that issue of not questioning individual's piety, and seems with your statements that we are all on the same page. But the discussion that was ignited through our interactions was of Enlighten Moderation and such, and future policies of Pakistan in the light of that declaration. So I would appreciate both of u to leave some thoughts on that as well.

Thanks.