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Old Thursday, December 24, 2009
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Question Ideology of Pakistan?

Hi all intellectuals,
I have been wondering if anybody on this forum would explain the Ideology of Pakistan to me? I feel ashamed of me for not knowing the ideology of the country I love.
Does the Ideology signify that all Muslims are one nation and all Non-Muslims form another nation?
If so, why the Government of Pakistan does not give passport to all Muslims?
or maybe the meaning of Ideology have changed after independence that all Muslims RESIDING IN PAKISTAN are a separate nation?
I have discussed ith with my naughty friends but they could never satisfy me.
so here is this Naughty Boy again disturbing you.Hopefully this time we do not turn Maniac
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  #2  
Old Friday, December 25, 2009
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seems like all 29200 members of the Forum are themselves unaware of the meaning and purport of the Ideology of the country they proclaim to serve.
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Old Friday, December 25, 2009
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Nae brother its just tht if ppl out dere or rather say i myself ll try 2 describe views over da real motives behind idealogy of pk there z every chance i wud b labelled a traitor nd bla bla. I salute 2 da millionz of ppl sacrificing thier lives fr ths sacred land nd 2 da great leardership of Quaid nd Iqbal nd some others but im little conspicioius abt the origin of tht all nd sincerit of tht fr its orgin. i tend 2 have bit diff views then i was taught durin 16 yrz of ma academic career. but the need of the hour z 2 move forward nd be united nd i wonder y we ppl always somehow find a thing 2 further divide us. There z nothing that we can share tht leads us 2 a common platform. Indeed there are but why we nd even the intellectuals out dere can present them rather then just further widening the gaps between rich n poor, between various ethnic n relighious sects nd other groups. The amount o energy we ppl spend in out racing each other can lead us 2 heights of glories if tht energy is channeled in a positive direction. Why cant we argue over

what should be our education system?
what should be our ecnomic system?
what should be our approach 2 eliminate poverty?
what should be our approach FP? n etc etc

Y all this stuff sounds so boring 2 Us
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Old Friday, December 25, 2009
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@naughty boy,

I did some research on net and collected some material on this topic. I hope you will be satisfied with these facts and the study of the following articles will help you to broaden your vision regarding Ideology of Pakistan. Ideology of Pakistan declared the Muslim of Sub-continent one nation and Pakistan Movement was for the oppressed Muslims of Sub-continent, to liberate the Muslims from the clutches of English and Hindus.

Hence a Nation State, Pakistan was formed with contiguous Muslim Majority areas i.e. what we call in term of Political Science: Federation. Countries possess a constitution and certain laws to follow. So, we have law and immigration act which don’t allow free movement for foreigners inside Pakistan without legal documents e.g. Passport and Visa etc. In this case we can demand for free movement in Kingdom of Saudi Arabia which is a religious center of Muslim Ummah.

Struggle for Pakistan was not for the Muslims of whole world rather it was confined to the Muslims of Sub-continent because of their petty state, due to threat to their religion and culture and bias attitude of Hindus and English. Muslims of Pakistan are different Nation i.e. Pakistani because we have common religion and language. Muslims of Pakistan are separate nation because they formed a federation and joined it by their own will. Like N.W.F.P and Balochistan joined Pakistan by referendum. Punjab and Sind joined it as well to form a federation. For this you must study about Federation, its characteristics, conditions and features. Here it goes some collection from net:

Nation and Nation State:

Nation can be defined as, “A part or division of the people of the earth, distinguished from the rest by a common descent, language, religion, race, share a real or imagined common history, culture or ethnic origin”. Pakistan is a Nation State: sovereign entity for a nation as a sovereign territorial unit. The state is a political and geopolitical entity; the nation is a cultural and ethnic entity.

Nation and Muslims of Sout-Asia:

The Muslims of South Asia believe that they are a nation in the modern sense of the word. The basis of their nationhood is neither territorial, racial, linguistic nor ethnic; rather they are a nation because they belong to the same faith, Islam. On this basis they consider it their fundamental right to be entitled to self-determination. They demanded that areas where they were in majority should be constituted into a sovereign state, wherein they would be enabled to order their lives in individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings of Holy Quran and Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (S. A. W.). They further want their state to strengthen the bonds of unity among Muslim countries.

Ideology of Pakistan:

The ideology of Pakistan took shape through an evolutionary process. Historical experience provided the base; with Sir Syed Ahmad Khan began the period of Muslim self-awakening; Allama Iqbal provided the philosophical explanation; Quaid-i-Azam translated it into a political reality; and the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, by passing Objectives Resolution in March 1949, gave it legal sanction. It was due to the realization of Muslims of South Asia that they are different from the Hindus that they demanded separate electorates. When they realized that their future in a 'Democratic India' dominated by Hindu majority was not safe; they put forward their demand for a separate state.

“Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, with different social customs and literature. They neither intermarry, nor eat together, and indeed belong to two different civilizations whose very foundations are based on conflicting ideas and concepts. Their outlook on life and of life is different. He emphasized that in spite of the passage of about 1,000 years the relations between the Hindus and Muslims could not attain the level of cordiality”. Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Pakistani ideology is based on the fact that the Muslims are a separate nation, having their own civilization, their own customs, their own culture, their own religion and a totally different way of life from Hindus. Muslims cannot be merged in any other nation because their philosophy of life is based on the principles of Islam. So, Muslims of India found it extremely difficult to spend their lives according to the principles of Islam in the United India. They were forced to demand a separate homeland to keep their religious as well as national identity.

Case of Bangladesh:

In 1971 the official “Two-Nation-Theory” was disclosed as wishful thinking. The former East-Pakistan became independent as the new state of Bangladesh, after a civil war cum external war, in which the Muslim Bengalis of East Pakistan joint forces with the “Hindu enemy”, India, against Muslim West Pakistan. Secular Bengali nationalism triumphed over the secular “Muslim nationalist” ideology. Among the reasons for the split of Pakistan were:

a) The exclusion of Bengalis from the power structure,
b) economic exploitation of East Pakistan by the Western wing/the Central Government;
c) the numerical strength and geographic remoteness of East Pakistan (separated from the Western wing by some 1600 kilometers of Indian territory).

With the independence of Bangladesh, Pakistan lost more than half its population. Bangladesh became a relatively homogenous country, with some 98 percent of the citizens being Bengali. What remained of Pakistan (the former Western wing) was hardly less heterogeneous than it had been before: it lost just one of its ethnic groups and nationalities.

What is federation?

A federation also known as a federal state, is a type of sovereign state characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions united by a central (federal) government. In a federation, the self-governing status of the component states is typically constitutionally entrenched and may not be altered by a unilateral decision of the central government.

Formation of federation of Pakistan:

At its annual session in Lahore on March 23, 1940, the Muslim League resolved that the areas of Muslim Majority in North-western and Eastern India should be grouped together to constitute independence plan without this provision was unacceptable to Muslims.

How name of Pakistan coined?

In 1933 a group of Cambridge students led by Choudhary Rahmat Ali (1897–1951) had coined the term Pakistan (land of the pure), taking letters from Muslim majority areas: Punjab P, Afghania (North-West Frontier Province) A, Kashmir K, Indus-Sind IS, and Baluchistan TAN.


Sources:
http://www.storyofpakistan.com/artic...rtid=A129&Pg=1
http://www.essortment.com/all/ideologyofpa_rjqp.htm
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/...f-pakistan-689
http://www.jochen-hippler.de/Aufsatz..._pakistan.html
http://www.daily.pk/pakistan%E2%80%9...n-state-13129/
http://geography.about.com/cs/politi...tatenation.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation
http://www.rajputbrotherhood.com/kno...-pakistan.html
http://www.brain.net.pk/~wisetech/50/history/index.html
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Old Friday, December 25, 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naughty boy View Post
Hi all intellectuals,
I have been wondering if anybody on this forum would explain the Ideology of Pakistan to me? I feel ashamed of me for not knowing the ideology of the country I love.
Does the Ideology signify that all Muslims are one nation and all Non-Muslims form another nation?
If so, why the Government of Pakistan does not give passport to all Muslims?
or maybe the meaning of Ideology have changed after independence that all Muslims RESIDING IN PAKISTAN are a separate nation?
I have discussed ith with my naughty friends but they could never satisfy me.
so here is this Naughty Boy again disturbing you.Hopefully this time we do not turn Maniac
With due respect 2 all gr8 leader of this beloved country rather founding father, i don't believe the struggle for Pakistan was of a significant political ideology as was of the 13 colonies of America or for that matter the long struggle against imperialism by different communist Latin American Nations especially Cuba. There wasn't any political IDEOLOGY. In my little study, it was an economic struggle to gain A LAND FOR THE OPPRESSED MUSLIMS in United India. The struggle was made more by Bengalis.
Difference of opinion will be taken in a positive manner!
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Old Friday, December 25, 2009
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Thanks to all contributor but i would request you to read my post again. I asked two questions.
Read my questions again and reply them(post#1)

Bundle of thanks
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Last edited by Andrew Dufresne; Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 12:16 AM. Reason: Tone was so rude
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Old Saturday, December 26, 2009
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Unfortunately, no one knows the ideology of Pakistan. Half the country thinks Pakistan was meant to be an Islamic state and the other half believe it was supposed to be a secular state for Muslims.

The notion that "all Muslims are one nation" failed when Bengalis separated themselves from us and when we refused to give nationality/rights to Afghan refugees.

The second part of the Two-Nation theory which states that "Muslims and non-Muslims cannot coexist" also falls flat on its face because the Pakistani immigrant population in Christian/atheist Europe and North America is among the highest in the world. If Muslims and non-Muslims cannot coexist, why are Pakistanis queuing up to live with disbelievers?


Quote:
How name of Pakistan coined?

In 1933 a group of Cambridge students led by Choudhary Rahmat Ali (1897–1951) had coined the term Pakistan (land of the pure), taking letters from Muslim majority areas: Punjab P, Afghania (North-West Frontier Province) A, Kashmir K, Indus-Sind IS, and Baluchistan TAN

If "A" is for Afghania and "TAN" for Balochistan then why do the Baloch want an independent state? Why have we perpetually been at war with them since 1973? Lastly, if "A" is for Afghania, why are we still so morbidly afraid to call "NWFP" Pakhtunkhwa or Afghania (based on 76-80% of the NWFP's population's ethnicity)?
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Thank you Ahmed,
As I have been cautioned not to break rules of the Forum so i would just put some questions that purturb my peace of mind with respectfully
1.Does the Ideology of Pakistan mean suppression of the sub-nationalities',Punjabis,Sindhis,Balochs,Phatans,Mu hajirs,Sareiki,Hindkos the various sub.nationalities of GB etc, culture and traditions? As the Ideology asks us for being Islamic in our traditions,what actually is Islamic Tradition?
2. Is not the Ideology been divisive in nature as you quoted Bengal?
3. Can a third world poor country afford a Trans-nation-states ideology? The pain of Palestine must be our pain, they say, as we are Muslims. The wars anywhere in the world fought involving Muslims must involve Pakistanis as well?
4. A brother has researched and posted links of articles and webs. My VERY HUMBLE request is KINDLY come forward with your own imaginative thinking. The posted/printed word is not the gospel to be taken as true whenever and wherever it occurred.
Kindly reply with your own convincing ideas to make me have peace of mind.
Hope this time around I do not cross my limits


And It would be great if we could have Manika sab on it.
Umarabbas sir where r u.missing your comments.
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Last edited by Andrew Dufresne; Saturday, December 26, 2009 at 01:34 AM. Reason: Second post merged into first one
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Old Saturday, December 26, 2009
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Have a look at Objective Resolutions. We must respect our History and Movements, those who call it stereotyped statements for them I want to say, “ those who forget their past, are condemned to repeat it”.

On March 12, 1949, the Constituent Assembly adopted a resolution moved by Liaquat Ali Khan, the then Prime Minister of Pakistan. It was called the Objectives Resolution. It proclaimed that the future constitution of Pakistan would not be modeled on European pattern, but on the ideology and democratic faith of Islam.

The Objectives Resolution, which is considered to be the "Magna Carta" of Pakistan's constitutional history, proclaimed the following principles:

1. Sovereignty belongs to Allah alone but He has delegated it to the State of Pakistan through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him as a sacred trust.

2. The State shall exercise its powers and authority through the chosen representatives of the people.

3. The principles of democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice, as enunciated by Islam, shall be fully observed.

4. Muslims shall be enabled to order their lives in the individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and Sunnah.

5. Adequate provision shall be made for the minorities to freely profess and practice their religions and develop their cultures.

6. Pakistan shall be a federation.

7. Fundamental rights shall be guaranteed.

8. Judiciary shall be independent

Ideology of Pakistan is very clear and free from any uncertainty. These are so called European/English historians who distorted the very image of the ideology of Pakistan. India claimed to be a secular state is it? The people, who don’t like the existence of Pakistan, undermine its integrity by such statements which mislead the people about an established fact i.e. Ideology of Pakistan.


Here are my own comments.


Most authentic documents about Ideoly of Pakistan are the Constitution and Objective Resolution which is the will of the majority and it truly depicts the Ideology of Pakistan. These things require extensive study and deep research, which we don’t bother to do and always expect things in a nut shell.

I mentioned in previous post that Pakistan Movement was not for the Muslims of the whole world it was rather confined to the Sub-continent and its main purpose was to relieve the Muslims from the oppression of English and Hindus, thus a federation was formed with the consensus of all the current provinces including Bangladesh.

As for as the case of Bangladesh is concerned, there were many factors which I discussed in earlier post, please have a look at my previous post. Indian conspiracy was another main reason for the dismemberment of Pakistan. We can apply the definition of Nation on Bengali as well.

About Pakistanis living abroad, I would like to say that it is an era of Internationalism and every nation state respect for the others and fully observe International Law and UN Charter (affiliated countries). There is a government at the back of Pakistanis who defend their citizens abroad directly or through embassies.

Here another question arises whether Pakistani living abroad suffer through the same ordeals and oppression through which the Muslims of Sub-Continent went through or not? I don’t think se, they are fully enjoying the rights citizenship of that countries. Furthermore, there is Rule of Law in foreign countries which was absent from the Sub-Continent.

Before discussing the issue of Balochistan and NWFP you must go through history, role of political junta in Pakistan, causes of failure of parliamentary democracy, frequent military take over, role of people, etc but I will call it the failure of political leadership who failed to strengthen the parliamentary democracy in Pakistan which is an important feature of Federation.


@ naughty boy

Your questions are available in aforementioned posts. You have to read the first post again and again. You will get your answer, problems is that we never studied our history and demand Indian authored questions in a nut shell.
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@ Shahoo sab
Dear as my study is not as vast as yours and I do not comprehend things as easily as you might do so again i request to simplify things for me if possible.
Sir,I think you are talking about things a little far from the main discussion (Post#1,7 and 8 are reffered.)
By imaginative thinking I meant that we should not be bookish on a discussion.
The provisions of the Constitution do sound excellent on paper but their practice remains a question and yes count the phrase " notwithstanding anything contained in the constitution" in the constitution and the havoc it does on the cherished chapter of the Fundamental Rights.
Objective Resolution being a part of the substantive part of the Constitution (A-2A) is at most an ambigious document with zillions of interpretations.
Sir,the reality on ground is not what the constitution and books on Ideology proclaim.
I would again humbly request you to go through my previous post and kindly reply to the questions I have posed. The dumb that I am, I cannot find my answers in your earlier post.
Thank You
P.S Objective Resolution is the will of the people?? When did the referendum take place on it?
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